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I have nothing to hide, but I also don't have all the receipts. Part of me says comply the other says not to. My dad likes to play the victim, not to get anyone in trouble just for the attention. Now I am being investigated/interrogated and I don't have proof. Does anyone know what's best?

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Comply with APS. If you have bank statements or any other documentation showing that you have been using his money for his needs like medications, food, rent and other necessities, this should suffice.

How did APS get involved in the first place? Do you live with your father or is he in a care facility? Did you dad call them?

We need more information to be able to give better suggestions.
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Areyou4real Aug 3, 2024
I brought him to the hospital for retaining water in his legs I think it's called edema. Well they took care of that and he had been in the hospital for 4 or 5 days I think and he told me he wasn't sick he wanted to go home I talked to the doctors and they said he should stay there because they're trying to get all his doctors together and the family to see what to do with him. We asked if he was still sick they said no so we said we're going to take him home and then they called APS for taking him against medical advice.
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Yes comply, not compling would look guilty on your part.

If you did nothing wrong, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. I believe they are good at telling when people are lying or if anything is fishy. So don't lie be honest. Most people don't save receipts.

Best of luck.
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Reply to Anxietynacy
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Are you the POA?
If you are POA and have been spending your father's funds for his care, did you not understand that you needed meticulous records?

You will need to comply and I would do this as graciously and as thoroughly as you are able. If you did not know that you needed records of expenditures then be honest with those investigating. You may be facing charges of elder fraud and abuse and this is not to be taken lightly. If you have acted wrongly in innocence or ignorance of the requirements, then be honest about this with those investigating. Provide everything you possibly can in writing as to what you spent, on what you spent it, and when and why.
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Reply to AlvaDeer
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Why would you take your father out of the hospital against medical advice???? And why would some part of you be saying not to comply with APS as well? You are setting yourself up for more trouble than you can possibly imagine right now! I'd print out all the credit card receipts to find a trail of what you've spent dad's money on, for starters. Then I'd comply 100% with APS and whoever else comes along, and stop making up your own rules here!
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Reply to lealonnie1
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This is a bit hard to understand, and it would be good to get the story straight before you see APS. You say that you asked the doctors “if he was still sick, they said no”, but also that they (she? the hospital?) are “trying to get all his doctors together and the family to see what to do with him”. You also say that F “likes to play the victim, just for the attention”.

APS may have been told that you have been exploiting him financially (or it may be something they always check), but they may also be getting very confusing stories about what’s best for him medically. If F actually wants to come home, it would be good to tell him that all this is likely to stop you taking him, and he should be clear and honest.
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Reply to MargaretMcKen
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Just read your reply. These doctors suspected something. Maybe that Dad needed more care than you could have provided.

When you are spending someone elses money, you keep records. My Moms bank statement showed the money going in and the money going out. TG, for a fee, our bank had pictures of the checks.
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Reply to JoAnn29
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Show the receipts. If you were taking care of his finances because he wasn’t able to you should have gotten a financial POA. Anyhow, ANY time you are paying anyone’s bills for them it is YOUR responsibility to get a receipt and keep those receipts to prove where your father’s money was spent on.
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MargaretMcKen Aug 5, 2024
That's not actually true. If you are paying anyone's bills for them, it's up to them to decide whether to make it a condition of reimbursement that you keep and show them the receipts. If anyone else wants to see the receipts, it depends on whether they have any rights to demand them. Very few agencies have those rights. Medicaid can deny payments if they show that reimbursement was a 'gift', that's about it.
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My guess here is another family member, or friend told the hospital staff that you are using dad's income and resources for your personal gain. OR something about your behavior or appearance made them suspicious, because hospitals all too often do the EXACT OPPOSITE, they release parents back home against children's wishes. We get many posts here from those that want to get their parents into a nursing home, or more help with caregiving but get none. The hospital just releases them back to a bad environment.

So, if you are dependent on his income to pay the bills and have a roof over your head, you are going to need to start to make changes. It may be that Dad's best place for him to be is in a nursing home, and his care will be beyond what you can handle.

As far as APS, just tell them the money went to living expenses. The worst that would happen is they may send a referral to the state's attorney's office, then it would be up to them to see if they want to bring charges. They likely won't unless significant money(tens of thousands) was stolen. But if you were dependent on dad's income to survive, that will end, because they won't allow you to live with him anymore.
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BurntCaregiver Aug 5, 2024
@mstrbill

More likely it's a fishing expedition to see what financial information they can find out without actually getting subpoenas for a person's financial information. That is what these people do. If there's an elder who doesn't have "services" through a homecare agency and there is no case file with social services because they aren't getting anything paid from the state, no one knows what assets grandpa has.

Social Services used to get up in my mother's business. They go on fishing expeditions when old people have no registered services. They call and promise of all kinds of "free" stuff. Nothing is free if you own anything. Or if you want to remain in charge of your own life when you're old. She has all the help she needs and is well cared for. Social Services actually came to her house. When they get nowhere, they send for APS. They're very nice. Her aide knew to call me immediately on videochat. I held up the POA documents and told this person if they ever come to the house again they'd better have a warrant from a judge to be there. If they don't and just "want to talk" the aides are instructed to call me and the police. I made it easy for this person and told her there was no need for her to get excited over possible assets because aren't any. I own the property my parent lives in so she needs to go fish elsewhere.

They never came back. They phone solicit from time to time and brochures from homecare agencies and care facilities come in the mail regularly, but no visits from APS or social services.
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I read your reply in the comments as to why APS is in your lives.

Unless your father has been declared (by a doctor) mentally incompetent and unable to make his own decisions, none of you including your father, owe anyone an explanation for anything.

Many times healthcare and social work "professionals" will use intimidation tactics on a family when really they don't have a legal leg to stand on. This would be because many of these people receive incentives to get a person placed in a certain facility or rehab or to get the signed up with certain homecare agencies that are affliated to them in some way or other.

Unless you are a court-appointed POA or conservator for your father, you don't owe APS a damn thing and you don't answer to them. I had a couple of dealings with APS once on a private-duty care case I was working and once when the nursing home my parent was in was demanding I hand over POA to them. Both times they were told to get a warrant. I wasn't doing anything wrong and neither are you.

You don't owe them receipts or bank statements. You don't have to keep records of what got paid and to whom. You owe them nothing. So give them nothing. You are not your father's legal representative. Even if you were, you would be answering to the probate court, not APS.

These people are just shaking the tree to see what falls out of it. Don't give into them. You are under no legal obligation to answer to these people. If they shake it too hard, petition the court for a restraining order against this harassment.

Get yourself to a lawyer though. First meetings are usually free. You do not owe APS an explanation for your father's finances and neither does he. If a sheriff serves you with papers to appear in court, then you MAY have to answer some questions. You do not have to now.
Also, if your father is not in a care facility, has no immediate plans to get put in one, and no one's looking to get him on Medicaid - no one will have to offer any explanations.

My guess here is your father probably ran his mouth in the hospital about you stealing from him and played the victim as you said to get attention and now it's rolled back on him and everyone else.

I wouldn't worry if I were you. Not unless you get a court summons.

Talk to a lawyer though. For your own peace of mind.

If the court appoints a conservator/guardian and financial POA over your father, let them. That's not on you.
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Scampie1 Aug 5, 2024
Burnt, you hit the nail on its head every time. I wish I knew this when my older sister called them on me. It is usually a family member or a social worker who does this. I had them calling me at home and on my job. The harassment was ongoing. The problem was I was already in the process of getting my sister placed in a group home. Until this day, my older sister thought she was responsible for the placement. Fast forward, older sister is currently in a rehab going through cognitive decline. APS was called on me because she thought she should have inherited the family home.
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Edema is not something that you treat and then you are well.
Discovering the cause is of paramount importance.

Severe heart or lung disease, kidney disease, cancer.

Following up on an outpatient basis can still be done.
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So, the doctor called APS because you took dad home because he wanted to go. Who else was with you? Was there another family member present?

So, in other words you went against the better judgment of the physician listening to your dad.

Where did the accusations of the financial abuse come from?
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Reply to Scampie1
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Do your best to comply. Give bank and credit card statements. Say that you don't keep all the receipts. Who does??

Did your father say your were exploiting him? If so, time to turn the reins over to someone else. It's hard enough to do all this work but then to be falsely accused of wrong doing? No thanks.
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