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Dad had several hospital stays for UTIs from March-Aug. One rehab facility overdosed him on laxatives and stool softeners for 20 days (laxative every night, SS twice a day). He lost another 15-20 pounds. At under110 pounds he was obviously prone to bed sores. He still had facilities about him. The personal care home he went to wasn’t what they claimed to be and while she was supposed to help out weight on him he stayed at the 99 pounds he came in on or maybe less. We were trying to get him out when he went to the ER. Rapid HR and breathing issue. We discovered he had a stage 3 sore on back, butt looked horrible but not broken skin yet, hole at the top of his penis with MRSA in it and 3 bacteria in UTIs which were bad. He did have a catheter and not circumcised. Dad died of pneumonia at the end of Aug. I have been filing complaints at the state and whatever other places I can for the two places and hospital for not doing their mandated neglect reporting. I keep hearing the whole scenario was ok because of his condition. I can’t stomach that any of these couldn’t have been prevented if he was cared for properly. We paid 6200/mth for care. 8 patients and 2+ staff most times. She put them to bed at 5 pm and there they stayed until morning and then sit in a wheelchair or couch all day. The bacteria was mainly from fecal matter so our thought was it got in via catheter and not cleaning properly. Is any of this normal? This all contributed to his death. I have a note from his hospital file that says the wound care nurse said they were not cared for properly causing them to progress yet then didn’t want to call APS. Between all of this and hole in his junk, I can’t see this stuff being justified because of his condition? Hate to repeat another question but I am getting tired of state folks trying to justify and want to know if I am crazy. Thanks in advanced.

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The one thing I hate with hospitals and rehabs, they think someone needs to go everyday. Not all peoples bodies work this way. They did this with Mom everyday. One laxative was too harsh. Stool softeners did no good. Phillips was the only thing thatvworked. My worst fear is going to a Hospital and especially rehab.

My daughter is a woundcare nurse in a NH. Those sores should have been seen by one. Even pressure points need to be watched. There are Kennedy ulcers that show up when the body is dying. This is a break down of the skin, not because of negligence.
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OncehatedDIL Oct 27, 2024
Yes - I wished more people realized what you are saying. I have wondered if they lay on the laxatives so much because they don't want to manually deal with impaction.

My son developed a bum sore when he was briefly hospitalized for a broken femur and hip. They kept pushing the laxatives and he developed diarrhea.

The rehab wound care nurse helped a good deal, but the situation totally resolved once I got him home and stopped the constant laxatives.
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Medical Malpractice suits are dreadfully difficult to win.
They cost the attorney an enormous amount of money to get the best qualified "expert" witnesses, and to have absolute proof that BUT FOR THIS the patient would have lived a long and productive life. That is that they were young money earners who now aren't dead but who will need care for life due to negligent action easily proven. Otherwise the maximum payout of 250,000 isn't enough to cover attorney expenses; and they won't win against the big guns of hospital lawyers.

They must have the following for any attorney to be interested in them.
1. A young victim who is STILL ALIVE but dreadfully impaired.
2. That victim must have full proof this THIS negligence is EXACTLY what injured them and many experts must attest to that.
3. This victim must be a money earner whose future decades of earnings were robbed by this negligence.
4. There must be solid proof that nothing else was a problem, and that but for this clearly negligent action they would have had a LONG and PRODUCTIVE life.

If you do see an attorney, OP, read him/her the above after he tells you no, and see if this is his/her reasoning or if I am wrong.

As Igloo once said here, once you are over the age limits and are "elderly" you truly aren't worth anything in the legal system in terms of being compensated for negligence in medicare care. And attorneys won't take the cases. Sadly.

As answer to your question, there seems to be many problems here starting with not controlling for diarrhea and continuing to give laxative to not proper bed, bed changes and etc. You ask if bedsore are "normal". No, never. But at times with fragile aging skin and being bedridden too long they are "inevitable" no matter what attempts are made to prevent them. Here it seems there were not proper steps taken, but that is very difficult to prove absolutely in a court of law.

I am so sorry. I agree with others. See an attorney. See one or two or three or four if it helps give you some peace; consults for malpractice are free to see them. However, I think they will, sadly, tell you they don't have a case that in our current climate they can WIN for you, and they cannot afford to put 100s of thousands into something they know historically they cannot/will not win.

I am so very very sorry for your tragic loss.
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Talk to a personal injury lawyer who specializes in nursing home neglect and abuse. Bed sores are not normal and to be expected. Especially advanced ones. I was a CNA for 25 years. The bedsores happen when a person isn't being repositioned regularly and they are not receiving proper hygiene and skin care. The minute your father has some skin blanching on his backside, they should have put an air mattress on the bed that inflates and deflates in different areas to relieve pressure on his body.

They did not do this and that is neglect. Talk to a lawyer.
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cover9339 Nov 1, 2024
Unfortunately, they could say they don't know where he may have got it since he was in both the hospital and the group facility.
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you’re not crazy. it’s not normal. it’s not acceptable. but they have thousands of lawyers to fight you. you need a lawyer.

regarding:
“This all contributed to his death.”

you’re not a doctor. your opinion on what contributed to the cause of death (COD) is irrelevant.

you need an official doctor’s opinion.

even if it turns out the neglect didn’t contribute to COD, you might still have a case against neglect in general. you need a lawyer. every case is different.

even if you have a good case, you might still lose. courts are corrupt too and sometimes cover up for facilities/hospitals.
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casrice Oct 27, 2024
Thank you! The death certificate says pneumonia and the pneumonia panel had the same type bacteria as the UTIs and wounds. The UTI bacteria specifically states leads to that and prognosis is poor. So there’s a bit more info. It’s a journey
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Keep fighting, it might save the next persons life. Some places are in it for their benefit not the patients. We had a not good incident when my husband was in rehab. I spoke up and got all kinds of appologies, but in the end took him home. It was hard and I needed help, but now three years later he is alife at almost 89 and we are glad we acted the right way. He still needs care 24/7 but with his mind good he can follow direction we are holding our own.
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cover9339 Nov 1, 2024
Good, I'm glad!!
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You may not be able to sue but you should be able to file a report with your state DPH and licensing. An investigation to the facility might slap a couple of fines and inspections
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No. No no no no no. NO! This is at the very least neglect and in my opinion abuse.
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casrice Oct 29, 2024
Thank you! We think so and a few others. But when even the state folks imply other it’s frustrating.
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"Bed sores" Pressure sores are NOT "normal"
None of what you described is "normal"
I feel sorry for you and for your dad for the neglect that he endured.
Now ... what will you do with that?
Sue? for what and for how much?
Your dad had several conditions that weakened him to the point that even 1 of those conditions alone may have caused his death. And if you did sue any case would take so long to go through court.
I also doubt you would get a lawyer to take the case as any monetary award would not be worth their time. (sorry). It might be worth having a consultation just to see what they say though and a consult does not cost anything.

I don't know if even taking to Social Media would do much. But most places do have an area to leave a review. Medicare does have an area as well that you can leave a complaint or comment about a particular place or facility. (I am hoping that the place your dad was in was a licensed, inspected facility. (If not that might be another avenue to explore)
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casrice Oct 29, 2024
Thanks for the input. I am going any route I can find. HHS has a complaint for quality of care, state has something for deceptive business practice and of course complaints. The odd thing is that Medicare doesn’t care unless he is alive and at the facility. I find that disturbing. The fact that obudsman say that especially knowing the different facilities are Medicare Medicaid that aren’t checking drugs, aren’t being washed and such and getting sores and deadly infections. That didn’t make sense.
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In response to the person who replied to me. When you are in a Hospital or Rehab, you need to be your own advocate. Ask what you are being given. You can turn it down. You don't have to take a laxative, you don't have to take a sleeping pill. My Uncle had a bad reaction to a lung med he was given by his doctor and was rushed to the Hospital. After recovering from that, they sent him to Rehab where he documented everything he was given. My Aunt was there when the Nurse came in to set up an IV for him. Aunt asked what he was being given, it was the same med that sent him to the hospital. If my Aunt had not caught that, my Uncle could have died.

I had trouble with both my Mom and husband concerning blood pressure meds. For Mom I asked why so high a dosage at discharge. Answer was because she was in pain, I said not anymore. The in home nurse was upset when Mom could not sit up. Her BP was really low. Once nurse called Moms Dr and had it lowered, Mom was OK. My DH was given BP meds for AFib he was having. No AFib upon discharge and BPmeds were still prescribed. His BP is normal otherwise. We waited the 2 wks suggested to go to PCP. When she took his BP she was surprised he could even walk. Of course he was taken off.

You must be aware of LOs medical history. You must stand up for yourself. My other peeve is Hospital Drs will not consult with patients drs about care. If they did, a lot less mistakes would be made. Always see ur PCP ASAP or follow up with Specialist after a hospital stay. I had a hospital stop my Moms thyroid meds because her labs were normal. My Mom had a specialist for Graves desease and I feel he should have been consulted before her meds were dropped. Her labs were normal because she was on meds.
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OncehatedDIL Oct 28, 2024
Exactly, another good point - way too often meds are started in the hospital and not removed when no longer needed after discharge.

My son was vigilant about other drugs, but laxatives were his downfall. The cancer support teams push laxatives constantly and he had developed a mental dependence on laxatives.

And yes, I began to realize that I had a big responsibility to research and gatekeep.
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Very sorry for your loss. No it is not normal and it is not ok. I hope you or someone took photos and that you have good documentation re the progressive lack of care leading to these issues. You needed an experienced attorney a long time ago but I hope you have one now. You have to have proof that is substantial and well documented to be successful in having a winnable case. That means documents, pictures, interviews, written statement and affidavits, and any other direct or circumstantial evidence you can get your hands on. An attorney will have the ability to subpoena evidence and witnesses. Good luck.
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