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As POA, I am aware that I can use her bank funds on her behalf and to pay her bills while living. I have heard that once she has passed, my POA is no longer valid, even if it is used for funeral/burial costs, etc..
You heard right. The account is locked down on her death if your name is on it as POA only. You may want to consider prepaying a funeral service. You should also check with the executor of her will, as that person will be the next one to be able to make payment out of funds.
And man, the body wasn't even cold before the bank shut it down...with bills to pay, including those for my mom's 24/7 aides--who counted on that money. Fortunately, my sister and I had a little warning /foresight...withdrew money for aides before my mom's death. (And documented it all.)
Because of Medicaid I prepaid Moms funeral. Was so nice.
If Mom is still competent, I recommend you being beneficiary of her bank accts. Its called "Pay on Death" (POD). This way the money becomes urs at death and you can use it as u wish.
Yes, POD is the way to go. I'm in Texas; any accounts and policies that have stated persons or are POD do not go through probate and are accessible WITH a death certificate. So, there is a lag time to receive the death certificate. Once LO passes, POAs are null. Executor of will takes over, if there is a will. Consult an estate attorney for facts and required processes in your state and jurisdiction because they vary on probate requirements.
Power of Attorney stops on death. If you are joint on the account you can still use the funds as you need. If your name is not on the account than you can't use those funds. I actually had the funeral home tell that they would not take a personal check if it only had the deceased name on it. You can ask the funeral home you will be using about a prepaid funeral trust. As POA you can set that up. Hugs.
Get your name on her account as payable upon death!! Yes it will be locked at passing. And the money from the estate may not be available for some time to pay for things. You will need liquid funds when your mother passes, and POA ends at that time. POA doesn’t really give you access to accounts, just the right to pay on your mom’s behalf, which legally are two different things. You might prepay what you can, but get on an account as POD that will cover costs as the estate is probated. We just went through this—I had been put on mom’s acccount as POD just weeks before she suddenly passed. We would be in a bad way right now if I hadn’t done that.
Does she have a life insurance policy? If so, make sure the premiums are paid monthly. This should take care of burial expenses. Many people will pay their expenses upfront especially for the cemetery and plots fees and etc. I would call the cemetery where she is interred and find out the pricing before the final days. The funeral home will process the policy for the embalming services and casket. Just make sure if they take care of the burial arrangements as well. There may be a fee of the opening and closing up the grave if you don't do a cremation and decide to take the ashes home.
Many elderly people will keep up their policies. Make sure you have all of this upfront and have your paperwork in a safe place.
A life insurance policy would be easy to find with a POA. Just look at her bank statements for premium payments. You can also see who the company is and contact them to get a copy. Hopefully they are listed as a beneficiary. Boy, that would create conflict if they are not listed. I know I’d be upset. My mom would get the “stink” eye.
Once my mother appointed me her POA I immediately went to her banks and added my name to her accts as joint owner. I have a durable POA. My 2 siblings remained on the accts as POD. The day she passes I highly doubt my siblings will have issue using my moms money for her funeral expenses. The only other option is splitting the funeral expenses between us. Given we inherit her money anyway it’s a moot issue.
I’m assuming you have siblings which is the reason for this question? Is a sibling giving you an inclination they are not willing to chip in for her funeral? Maybe they have serious money issues? If that’s the case I would definitely get your mom’s funeral expenses prepaid asap. As POA you have the authority to do that. ‘I’m also assuming you are joint owner on your moms account if you are paying her bills etc. If you have no siblings this is a nonissue. You will continue to own her accounts once she passes. Unless your mother has a Will in place leaving all her assets to another person or a charity. If you’re not sure about this just prepay for her funeral to put your mind at ease.
I haven’t prepaid for my moms funeral because my mom can’t handle something like this emotionally. When we were arranging my dads funeral the director asked us about prepaying for her funeral and she almost broke down. She’s extremely sensitive about the subject matter and I don’t want to get her upset. I would not be able to prepay without her finding out either. I chose to make sure my siblings get her bank statements making sure they don’t get any thoughts of me doing anything shady. If they saw a payment to a funeral home they would open their big mouths and tell her.
Some of this depends on the nature of the: POA (durable, non-springing, and what it actually says/what actual powers are OR are NOT conferred), your State law and if you are on her account (bank/checking) as a joint owner OR as just a beneficiary. Also, if she has executed a Will or not, and if you are named as the Executor to pay for her funeral from her remaining funds and to handle/close her estate. This later part (including the filing of final taxes) can take from a year to 18 months to work through. Also, if she has Medicaid now or will be applying in the future, consider prepaying the funeral expenses now. [PS: prepaying funeral expenses is allowed under Medicaid, as long as the expenses are basic. I prepaid my mom's funeral expenses: simple, a no service burial and the plot was gifted by a relative and it all still cost $14K. Something to perhaps prepay.]
But all to say, it would be best for you to get with a Wills, Trust and Estate attorney and/or an Elder Care attorney (if Medicaid is likely to be part of this) licensed in your State (each State has different laws/rules) rather than guessing. Not knowing or not following the law/rules in your State or jurisdiction [PS some counties have unique laws/rules too] (where your LO is especially if you are not in the same State/locality) is no defense; will not give you a pass for any "re do."
Example, where we live near an urban area on the east coast, when my aunt passed her son who lived in a different State assumed he'd do what he knew based on his State. Our local jurisdiction within our State requires that an original Will be presented to the County Registrar of Wills before anything can happen with the estate including naming any Executor to handle just the funeral much less to start the process of handling/closing the estate. Said cousin was appalled that he had to come here -- drive 500+ miles -- just to present an original Will. Further he did NOT want to hand over the original Will which our jurisdiction requires (a copy will not do). This went on for weeks, no burial. I had to get a local Wills, Trust and Estate attorney involved so the original Will could be federal expressed to the lawyer and thereafter the lawyer would help present that document and handle the required legal steps in our State so the cousin would not have to come back and forth over and over except for the funeral. The lawyer was named as his legal representative to handle this in our State/locality and she was paid out of my aunt's estate. It was well worth the cost as it would have been virtually impossible for my out of State cousin to really do all of this other than traveling back and forth over and over to be in person to handle the unique in-person steps our locality mandates.
Hopefully, your mother has a Will drafted by an attorney that names you as Executor. Regardless, worth considering prepaying for the funeral now as that also will lock in the price in today's prices. The pre-paid funds are put into escrow, it is not revocable other than to transfer to another funeral home and cemetery. Those funds do make some modest interest while in escrow. For my mom, it is all fully pre-paid and all picked out down to what she will wear....
Good luck with this. None of this is easy to think about or do. But best for us all to plan and work out most of this well in advance so a hot mess is NOT left in the hands of our children or other relatives.
From my (recent) experience legally managing every aspect of my friend's life, being a POA, and more, when a person dies, funds in a banking institution automatically go into Probate. What I didn't know beforehand is that I do not need to 'do' anything when the funds are in the state of probate (it happens automatically w/o any intervention or need from me). Funds are held in "probate" for (I recall) 45 days, then released. I also was informed that I could not 'take out' funds in his account (before he died) ALTHOUGH I could transfer his funds - which I did - to my account at that same institution.
So...
1st - if you feel a need, contact an attorney.
2nd - Talk to the manager of the banking institution as they all have a bit different legal procedures/responsibilities they adhere to -
3rd - Move some funds in your mom's account 'now' into an account you have or need to open in order to move the funds.
Yes, a POA is no longer a legal document when a person dies. This information should have been communicated / explained to you when you became the POA, if you worked with anyone (an attorney) to set it up.
In my case, I had a Will to back up that I was the person to receive whatever funds were left in the account after the 45 day wait period.
I was POA for both of my parents. I pre-planned their services but they don’t take payment up front in my case. When Dad died I was able to take care of his affairs on behalf of my Mom who was executer as I was her POA
When my Dad died I hired an estate lawyer and he did a pour over will and told me to be put on my Moms bank account so it wouldn't go into probate. We live in a probate state and her bank account would go into probate so I would not have access to pay her bills etc.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
If Mom is still competent, I recommend you being beneficiary of her bank accts. Its called "Pay on Death" (POD). This way the money becomes urs at death and you can use it as u wish.
Once LO passes, POAs are null. Executor of will takes over, if there is a will. Consult an estate attorney for facts and required processes in your state and jurisdiction because they vary on probate requirements.
Many elderly people will keep up their policies. Make sure you have all of this upfront and have your paperwork in a safe place.
I’m assuming you have siblings which is the reason for this question? Is a sibling giving you an inclination they are not willing to chip in for her funeral? Maybe they have serious money issues? If that’s the case I would definitely get your mom’s funeral expenses prepaid asap. As POA you have the authority to do that.
‘I’m also assuming you are joint owner on your moms account if you are paying her bills etc. If you have no siblings this is a nonissue. You will continue to own her accounts once she passes. Unless your mother has a Will in place leaving all her assets to another person or a charity.
If you’re not sure about this just prepay for her funeral to put your mind at ease.
I haven’t prepaid for my moms funeral because my mom can’t handle something like this emotionally. When we were arranging my dads funeral the director asked us about prepaying for her funeral and she almost broke down. She’s extremely sensitive about the subject matter and I don’t want to get her upset. I would not be able to prepay without her finding out either. I chose to make sure my siblings get her bank statements making sure they don’t get any thoughts of me doing anything shady. If they saw a payment to a funeral home they would open their big mouths and tell her.
But all to say, it would be best for you to get with a Wills, Trust and Estate attorney and/or an Elder Care attorney (if Medicaid is likely to be part of this) licensed in your State (each State has different laws/rules) rather than guessing. Not knowing or not following the law/rules in your State or jurisdiction [PS some counties have unique laws/rules too] (where your LO is especially if you are not in the same State/locality) is no defense; will not give you a pass for any "re do."
Example, where we live near an urban area on the east coast, when my aunt passed her son who lived in a different State assumed he'd do what he knew based on his State. Our local jurisdiction within our State requires that an original Will be presented to the County Registrar of Wills before anything can happen with the estate including naming any Executor to handle just the funeral much less to start the process of handling/closing the estate. Said cousin was appalled that he had to come here -- drive 500+ miles -- just to present an original Will. Further he did NOT want to hand over the original Will which our jurisdiction requires (a copy will not do). This went on for weeks, no burial. I had to get a local Wills, Trust and Estate attorney involved so the original Will could be federal expressed to the lawyer and thereafter the lawyer would help present that document and handle the required legal steps in our State so the cousin would not have to come back and forth over and over except for the funeral. The lawyer was named as his legal representative to handle this in our State/locality and she was paid out of my aunt's estate. It was well worth the cost as it would have been virtually impossible for my out of State cousin to really do all of this other than traveling back and forth over and over to be in person to handle the unique in-person steps our locality mandates.
Hopefully, your mother has a Will drafted by an attorney that names you as Executor. Regardless, worth considering prepaying for the funeral now as that also will lock in the price in today's prices. The pre-paid funds are put into escrow, it is not revocable other than to transfer to another funeral home and cemetery. Those funds do make some modest interest while in escrow. For my mom, it is all fully pre-paid and all picked out down to what she will wear....
Good luck with this. None of this is easy to think about or do. But best for us all to plan and work out most of this well in advance so a hot mess is NOT left in the hands of our children or other relatives.
So...
1st - if you feel a need, contact an attorney.
2nd - Talk to the manager of the banking institution as they all have a bit different legal procedures/responsibilities they adhere to -
3rd - Move some funds in your mom's account 'now' into an account you have or need to open in order to move the funds.
Yes, a POA is no longer a legal document when a person dies.
This information should have been communicated / explained to you when you became the POA, if you worked with anyone (an attorney) to set it up.
In my case, I had a Will to back up that I was the person to receive whatever funds were left in the account after the 45 day wait period.
Gena / Touch Matter
When my Dad died I hired an estate lawyer and he did a pour over will and told me to be put on my Moms bank account so it wouldn't go
into probate. We live in a probate state and her bank account would go into probate so I would not have access to pay her bills etc.
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