When mom passed I told the owner of the care home I would empty mom’s room by end of month. I private paid month to month. I also told them if they needed the room sooner to contact me and I was willing to work with them. They said they wouldn’t need the room for a while and I was glad because I wasn’t ready to pack up mom’s things yet, you know? Two days later they called me and said they showed mom’s room and that a gentleman wanted to move into the room in a few days. I told the owner I was out of town but my return flight home was the day before they needed the room and that I would get the room emptied for them. I enlisted some family help and emptied the room as the care home requested. A few days later I contacted the owner and asked her when I would receive a refund for vacating the room 15 days early for her. Her response was that they don’t do refunds or prorate and that it says so in the contract. However, I did not initiate this early vacate. They asked for the room back. And they put a new paid resident in mom’s room the next day. I feel like this owner has taken advantage of me during a vulnerable time. I would have gladly kept the room until end of month when I was better prepared emotionally to pack up mom’s things. I feel like I just had my grieving time stolen as well as my remaining $2,100 of rent. I offered to work with her and all she did was capitalize on my grief. Is this even legal? Should I go to small claims court?
1) You said that ‘it’s not about the money’. You will find that with your lawyer, if any, that’s exactly what it’s about.
2) Chances are that your best chance of a pay-out will be simply to ‘shut you up’, and the settlement will be subject to a ‘gag order’. You may not be able to tell all those future victims that you say it was ‘about’.
3) Was the care contract with you, or with your mother? If with your mother, is her will (if any) going to probate, who is the executor, are they (if not you) willing to take on the case, and how long will probate take?
4) Have you yet read the care contract to see if it covers the rules for payment on vacating?
5) Memory of your mother’s death will be submerged under this small claim. It already is.
6) You paid by the month. If you leave a cinema half way through the movie, you don’t claim for half the ticket price.
7) You cleared out the room voluntarily and unconditionally.
Letter sent.
Owner sent me a reply, an apology letter, and is issuing me a check for the 15 days I vacated early. I should receive it in the next 6 days.
I hope this owner will think twice now before exploiting any other residents.
All that to say - yes you will not get a refund. I tried and I did not hold my breath in calling a lawyer just kissed that money goodbye.
I'm in that process myself. I took care of my husband for over 7 years. At the end of last Dec, I had to place him in an Adult family home because I was having hip replacement surgery in March and I could barely take care of myself. He had many health issues that kept progressing. Dialysis, for all seven yrs, diabetic, pacemaker, oxygen and finally ended up in a wheelchair.
I was extremely lucky to find this home that would take Medicaid. One of her tenants moved out 2 days before I contacted her. He moved Jan of this year.
It was meant to be. Right place, right time. He liked the home. Whew!!
He passed on friday, Aug 30th.
I was asked if I could gather his belongings within a few days. They would get them ready for us to pick up. My daughter and son in law picked his things up Monday. That would release the room for her to make the room available for Sept. At first I thought it was a little cold hearted, but then remembered how I was so lucky to get that room in the first place. Time to pass that luck on.
The reason I didn't pick his things up myself was that I fell and broke my right arm/ shoulder on Tues the 27th.! I'll find out tomorrow, the 9th, if I need surgery. Thank goodness we had all end of life plans planned out. One phone call and it is all done. Now all I have to deal with is SS and other business things.
One question, how soon does SS want their money back? His Sept. check already came in. Do I have till the end of the month to return it?
I want to THANK all the posters that use this forum. I have been reading this site for probably 2 years. Learning how to say when, when you know it's time to pass your loved ones care to someone else. How not to feel guilty for taking care of yourself. How things work in all types of care centers. I think we supplied t-shirts for a few of the residents.:) I have recommended this site to friends. I live in a 55
+ community. Thanks again for all the information that I learned from this site.
Now it is time for me to wipe away my tears and mentally prepare myself for tomorrow. I have 2 wonderful daughters and many close friends near me. I am truly blessed. Jan
Anyway, they paid for the upfront deposit and the first full month. It came to over $12K.
8 days in, she passes away. The 'kids' are told they have the entire month to clean out the apartment, which had not even been completely unpacked.
So, they were dealing with the immediate things that come into play after a death, and didn't stress the AL apartment. One day (maybe 10 days after her death) my DH gets a call that they need the apartment, like, yesterday, and when were they going to empty it?
They tried to negotiate a grace period of some kind--already knowing they wouldn't get the deposit back--but within a day or so, just gave up and we emptied the place. Actually left MIL's huge TV and brand new recliner for the facility to have. No credit given for that.
This made a stressful situation more stressful. The 'kids' are all in their 70's and they had spent the entire previous year in FT care of their mom in her home. They were beyond exhausted.
The apt was emptied within 48 hrs and I suppose the new patient moved right in. MIL never ate a meal or even took a shower in that apt.
Was all this legal? IDK, but it sure wasn't 'ethical' and the facility did keep all the money they'd been paid. So, while a $2100 loss stings--it sure could have been worse. DH said they were out the entire $12K, in the end.
You'd spend more than $2100 trying to fight them. Sometimes it is less awful to just let stuff like this go and chalk it up to experience.
When this happens to me (since I don't suppose my mother is going to live forever), I think I will just tell them we'll be done before the end of the month and pound sand if you don't like it. I don't blame the OP for being upset. I think they did take advantage of her. They figure they can strongarm people who are grieving. It isn't right.
i I paid h til xx date and you requested I exit on xxx
please provide me with my refund fir the extra days to
xxxx
ibe quick way if finding out :-)
I spoke to the county Ombudsman and they were shocked by what this care home was attempting to get away with. The advised me to proceed straight to court because what they did was very unjust.
This isn’t about the money. I am trying to make a point with these people. I don’t even need the money. What I need and want is for these places to stop stealing from these vulnerable seniors! Many don’t have much. Someone has to stand up! We can all hang out and chat here, but none of these issues are going to stop happening until we stand up for our rights.
Take time to complete your griefwork at home with your mom's things with you.
The bottom line:
1) ALWAYS READ THE CONTRACT and
2) GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING.
This woman would be well served emotionally to focus on grieving verses getting a refund, what she appears to not be entitled to.
Gena / Touch Matters
When i was moving I asked the landlord if I would get a refund for the 2 week difference in the rent if I gave them the keys early. They said no so I did not give them the keys until the end of the month.
Most times in the lease it will state that they do not prorate or refund money when you are moving out. They are happy to prorate a move in though. Check your copy of moms agrrement and terms with the facility to save yourself the time and effort if trying to sue if you have no legal standing.
At least someone who reads this will learn from your mistake and not have the same thing happen to them.
I know my mom would be proud that I fought. And when I win, I am going to donate to our local senior center. They need some new things over there :)
I booked an AirBnB recently. The room I booked another guest had and wanted to extend his stay, The host messaged me and asked if I would not mind changing the room to a similar room, same price but in a different home.
If I said no, the other guest would have to leave when his registration was over and probably go to the room I was offered, but I didn't do that. He stayed in the room longer, and I took the other room.
I could not get upset with the host if any issues arose, because I was the one that agreed to the change. There was no obligation to accept this, again it was my choice.
You paid for the room for the month, so you had the right to get your money's worth, so to speak. If you wanted to be nice you could have said it will be empty say 3 days before the month was up. That way, it would be a shorter wait for the guy, you would have got the most of your money's worth and would feel like you were doing a good thing.
If you're familiar with AirBnB, before booking, it is usually spelled out you have a specific date(s) to cancel to get some or most of your money back. Once the last date to cancel pasts, you're not entitled to any refunds. ( it would be up to the host if they want to do a refund after the final cancellation date, but they're under no obligation to do so)
I don’t think this situation compares to an Air B&B! I would take the advice of the ombudsman if it were me!
I think the mistake you made was in thinking this business would refund you the unoccupied days of moms lease once you agreed to move her things out for the new resident. Agreed being the key word. Sad but true. These admins are all nicey nicey until YOU want something! Ain't that the truth? I once misplaced my mother's room key at her AL and the greed mongers wanted $350 to replace a $3 key at Ace Hardware.
My condolences on the loss of your dear mom.
Instead of trying to take this to court where nothing can be done about it ,
perhaps write to your state congressman to perhaps pass a bill in state legislation that when someone dies in a private care home that the prorated amount be returned to the estate . The argument could be made that the deceased person did not voluntarily give up the apartment .
There are a lot of things that aren’t fair . When someone dies after they’ve already gotten their SS direct deposited it has to be given back . Same if the deposit happened after someone dies . You have to be alive the whole month to keep that months payment . It’s not prorated .
When my mom passed, Social Security had deposited her check for the month. Because she was not eligible for this last check, they reached out to her credit union to send the money back. Mind you, she had been a member for many years, but it's still a business, so they block her checking account until this money was paid back.
Because the money was in her savings and not checking, (unknown to us), any bills paid from her account (which was now an Estate Account), bounced, with them eventually closing her Estate Account. When contacted, they had neglected to remove the block from her account, even though the money was paid back. End result, damage had been done and we were out of luck.
It's a lesson learned that when it all comes down to it, be it a credit union, bank, NH, AL, etc, they're all business first and foremost.
If someone new moves into the room quickly, I really don't consider it double-dipping mid-month because there is a lot of paper-work involved with a client moves out, and lot of paper-work when a new client moves in. And inbetween, quick work might need to be done such as painting, fixing this or that, new lighting installed, new carpeting, whatever, and finding tradesmen to work around the clock to get the room ready (that part we don't see).
I'm so sorry you are going through this.
Sadly, you might be out of luck. What should have happened was the home letting the gentleman know the room would be available when your paid time was done; it would be up to he to accept it or not. Unfortunately, you mentioned if they needed the room sooner to contact you... which is what they did. In your grief, you probably didn't inquire about any refund for unused days if done so which, again they are probably going on.
As you've unfortunately discovered, this is a business. You could have easily said NO to releasing the room early, since you had already paid for it; look at what being so nice to them got you. Besides, once your mom died, you doing business with them "died" as well. Sure it would be nice if they refunded some of the money, but as mentioned, if there is no refund or prorate in the signed contract, then they're under no obligation to do so.
Again, so sorry you went through this.
There was no agreement about a refund.
The contract will likely stand. Rental is paid by the month. If there were levels of care costs those should be refunded as no one was being cared for.
You offered to vacate it early.
They first said no, and then took you up on it.
You had no agreement verbal or otherwise that said you should be getting a refund if you did this. But you just did it of your own volition.
Sorry, I think that the contract will hold in court. You are welcome to spend a couple hundred to find out and to be a fly in their ointment, but I think that this is a way to avoid moving on into grief. Grief counselors tell us that we will often choose to be "mad" at someone rather than move into the hard and final work of grief. Sometimes that's a doctor, a hospital, a care team, hospice, a nursing home. Anyone will do.
You have my condolences. But there was a contract that spelled things out in black and white. They fulfilled their contract. You did them a favor. And that's about it. The favor was not returned. If going to court makes you feel better, do give it a try. They may refund this rather small amount to avoid having to show in court, so tell them that's your intention first. Good luck. Again, my condolences on your sad loss and I hope you have happy memories.
I’m sorry for your loss .
Like already said legal is one thing , immoral and unethical another .
When my father in law died we were not expecting a prorated refund . They calculated it from the day we moved out his things . He paid month to month . Nothing in the contract talked about when a resident died . But they sent a prorated refund anyway .
Legal is one thing. Immoral and unethical is another. Write and tell the owner and board if there is one you're going to take them to court as well as publish a terrible review about them sharing what they have done. Put it exactly as you did here. Whether you actually intend to follow through they don't know, maybe it will be enough to get them to cut you a check. And it will bring it to all of leadership attention. You were kind enough to work with them. They have double dipped.
It was an unpleasant rush, but really MIL didn’t have have a lot in the room. There was enough on my plate without getting upset about it.
So I had until end of month to move.
they knew I didn’t want to pack her up yet. I told them I would work with them if they needed the room sooner.
I never said they could rush me to get mom’s thing out of the room and keep my money too. And right now they are collecting double income from mom’s room since the day I clears the room.
Denying a refund to me, after they asked me to clear the room 15 days early (and renting the room the next day) is just so dishonest and egregious.