Putting this under "Frauds & Scams" because that's the closest category on Aging Care that fits the problem!
Dad was looking to inter my mothers ashes, so he bought a cremation bench (like a niche, but you put the container in the hollow place in the bench) and the salesperson for the cemetery told him it would cost another $200 to put his ashes alongside hers - when his time came.
Well it came, and now they want $680 to do this! The person I spoke with told me it was because of inflation. I used an online inflation calculator, and that comes to only $270 - a big difference!.
I found the deed for the bench, but there are no financial papers with amounts on them. I was with him when he bought it, so I heard her tell him $200 - like it was part of his 'deal' in buying that bench. The whole bench & space to put it didn't cost but about $2000, so $680 to open it and reseal it (glue it shut) is insane. This doesn't include putting his date of death on it either - and anything done to this bench - sealing it, engraving it - MUST be done by the cemetery or their 'associates.'
I feel they took advantage of a senior (my dad) and are now taking advantage of the bereaved (me!).
I heard the quote of $200 given to my dad because I was there with him, but can't find it in writing. If dad were alive, he'd never submit to being robbed like this - or having me robbed either.
Problem is, I have his sister & brother who want to come for a funeral. My immediate family had a chapel service for dad, because his siblings couldn't get here right away. But I feel obligated to inter dad alongside mom, and this funeral was planned for next week. Oh, and there will only be 5 people there - 4 relatives including me & the person doing the service! I don't need a canopy or chairs (it will be brief), but this seems to be the charge - $680, not $200 - even though I don't need tents and 50 chairs.
Any ideas on what, if anything, I can do about this?
If that price isn't stated on the paperwork, what does the paperwork say about fees? Anything?
Inflation in the context of services like this isn't limited just to the value of money alone; it's being used loosely to cover cost increases in general, which probably include things like regulation of the disposal of human remains and other yards and yards of red tape. And, yes, I don't think it's cynical to agree with you: what they think they can get away with in terms of admin fees.
If I were you, I would work out what upper limit I wouldn't feel insulted by and see if I could argue them down to that. But then again, in the end - don't you just want the job done? It's a matter of how much of your time and energy $410 is worth to you.
Hope you are able to work it out.
My niece was able to pay in installments when she couldn’t pay the full amount for her mom. Maybe they will allow you to do that too.
Is there a local investigative reporter for consumer affairs? While negotiating the fee you might want to ask them how much it would be worth to not make an appearance on the show.
Everything that was to be included was listed along with the amount paid. When the time
came to bury my Mom, I did not have to pay any additional fees which would have been a LOT more then when she signed up for the plan about 15 years ago.
If you are unable to get them to give you a better price, I would probably pay what is necessary so that your Dad can be placed next to your Mom. Everything is so expensive today.
I paid for my father's funeral in full at the same time I paid for my mother's. At the time of Pop's passing, it was still paid in full although the actual cost had increased quite a bit in 7.5 years. Due to his poor health at the time of my mother's passing, the Funeral Home allowed me to pay in full.
There's probably not much you can do now but pay the different price.
That is if you really care to pursue it. I would not. I would hold a celebration of life in my own home and I would inform everyone of the story why.
My partner and I have already requested cremation, spreading of remains wherever they care to do that, no services. But that is us and everyone is different in how they feel about these things.
I would not feel obligated to inter Dad by Mom. I would spread his ashes someplace he deeply loved. If there is an afterlife in which he looks down upon you I guarantee he no longer cares about such things. After celebrations are for the living. You are living. Your much loved (clearly) Dad and Mom are not.
Cute story about my Mom. My Dad predeceded her, and she wanted his ashes. Got them. Mentioned how heavy the box. Put in closet and there they remained until about 10 years later she followed him, but not before saying "F.'s in the closet still. I don't know WHY I wanted to keep his ashes. Please. Just dispose of them. As to my own, I don't care where they go."
If you want some peace and no hassle and someplace to visit them both you have a decision to make. I would tell them you will pay them, and you will see them in print for a long, long time.
It is hard to stand on a leg without the papers. For me it would be the principal of the thing, I guess.
Not trying to be mean but if in the year 2019 coming up with $680 to cover an expense like this is causing a financial crisis you have bigger things to worry about than this
But, everyone has money issues to some degree, let's assume that. I'm 61, & I still tend to believe in ppl.
Instead of helping her, yes let's add to her grief & tell her she has worse problems!
Just lovely. Sometimes ya just need to bite your tongue!
Let them know, you will need to turn this matter over to the Federal Trade Commission.
Here's the link on your RIGHTS regarding price sheets. & more
https://www.usurnsonline.com/funeral-resources/avoid-these-10-common-funeral-scams/
Goodluck....& sorry for the loss..I just loss my parents & I learned a few things & my bf is a funeral director.
The cemetery is not backing down, and now they're insisting on seeing me in person before the interment. I must have hit a nerve when I mentioned the FTC.
I found out that the cemetery was sold since my father purchased his bench. I told them that doesn't matter, they still must honor their contracts and that they should have his contract on file in their office. They seem to be completely disorganized - I doubt they have any paperwork either - they looked up his cremation bench using his name only. They didn't even seem to know my mother is in there already!
I found the order for the bench - drawings, dimensions, sales woman's name, etc. - but have not yet located anything with prices. It's all here somewhere, but my father has boxes & boxes of papers going back to the 1980's - and not arranged by date, so I'm still searching.
I'll pay to have him interred this Friday because his sister from another state can come, and this is totally for her. I know this is important to her, and she's been ill, so I don't think it wise to wait. If I were to do as my father would have preferred, I'd fight this ridiculous fee first. He never let anyone cheat him in business arrangements - I almost feel guilty for doing this before the fee problem is resolved.
I know many people would just let it go, but I must take after dad. And I know if I let this cemetery get away with robbery they'll be emboldened to rob everyone unfortunate enough to have a plot or niche with them!
One other thing may be playing into this. There was a time in this area when my married name meant one thing - money! Some members of his family are quite wealthy, but that's 'the other side' of his family. Since I've lived here I've dealt with people raising prices the minute they heard my name. I couldn't take my car for repairs or even get my driver's license without someone trying to scam me. I've always gone somewhere else, but in this case I can't. Dad's cremation bench is with this cemetery, so I have to stand and fight.
You didn't mention when the conversation took place, but $680 is not out of line with 2019 prices for niche interment.
Perhaps the cemetery has a payment plan? Would your relatives each be able to contribute? If not, you could wait to inter the ashes until you've had time to manage the cost and hold the service at home rather than graveside.
Check to see where the Corp office is. The orig person shouldn’t have promised that without putting it in writing. Not very professional.
The big concern that buys up FHs usually keeps the same name and personnel so might be worth checking. They do depend on the familiarity of the funeral home name and good will in the community.
A small business owner will sometimes feel free to offer things they have a low overhead on in the hopes of gaining more business. A big outfit paying salaries and benefits wants to see a profit.
But to be fair any business can go up on prices. Unrealistic to think they won’t. It’s hard to get much of anything for $200 these days.
They do quote and are forced to stick to lower prices when they sell preneed contracts.
But with those contracts they have money coming in.
One of my aunts had a preneed she bought in her 20s. When she died at 94 it was a shock to the funeral home when they saw the contract.
Cousin didn’t have to call the Corp office but did ask if he needed to call Corp or could the local office handle. It was a great contract. Cousin only had to pay for flowers. And this was a full blown funeral.
The industry has had a major blow since cremation has become so popular. I like your dad’s idea of a bench and the engraving. I hope your family can resolve the issue and enjoy the gathering to celebrate a life well lived.
You want them to be together in the bench. Just elevate your contact remembering they aren’t contractually required to budge. You need to speak with a decision maker not a salesperson. The sale was made back when your dad bought the bench would be my approach. You are looking to speak with someone concerned about fulfilling the agreement already negotiated. Good luck and let us know how it comes out.
I'd have had no problem paying a reasonable amount adjusted for inflation, and then some, but three and a half times the promised amount is beyond ridiculous. Hopefully, they'll put me in touch with someone from their company who doesn't want to FTC looking into their business and thier poor record keeping.
Will let you know how it turns out!
Not the media or better business bureau will get the fee whittled down. $680 is actually reasonable; when my brother died in June the Catholic cemetery my parents are interred in wanted $1000 to “open” the grave for his ashes to be placed there with my parents.
Funerals are expensive. And yes unscrupulous people will try to get as much money as they can while the family is grieving.
I did not pay the $1000. My brother was cremated and I had a Mass for him. The priest offered to take his ashes and scatter them in a Catholic cemetery- considered consecrated ground & I took him up on the offer. I did not want his or anyone’s ashes in my home. That is not for me although it’s up to others how they feel & what they want.
As we say in Nursing, if it ain’t documented it ain’t done”.
BTW my first “quote” for cremation was $5000. I told the guy he was crazy. He called me back with a different price $2500. My husband found a very nice & honest funeral director who agree to $1500. We signed the contract.
I agree with 97yroldmom. Any business can change their prices & if you didn’t get it written in the contract you are at their mercy.
I would just pay the $480 difference or ask your siblings to split the cost.
In movies and on TV, we often see people depositing handfuls of soil at the end of the service, but before the grave is covered again... could you just "deposit" the ashes (maybe even the whole container, assuming you/mom have held on to it until the time comes) when the service is done? Would they jump in and take it back out? Might be worth it to try, just to see what they do!!! If they did remove it, the fee might be worth the entertainment (although it would take away from a solemn moment, I myself would like to see my kids do something like that! Warped sense of humor, I know.)!
Geez, mom and dad had/have prepaid plans... I think I need to contact them again to see what the status is. I do know after taking over mom's finances that there was a bill for dad, not cheap either - perhaps they were not "paid up" at that point (2008?) No real service, no church, cremation only and military burial. Mom is still ticking along, and when I spoke with them a few years ago, they indicated she was "nearly" paid up - I need to know what that means, how much it will potentially cost, what we need to do, etc. There will be no elaborate anything. Mom is 96, all her generation is gone, most friends gone or incapable of attending anything. No service, no church, just cremate and inter with dad. If what she has paid isn't enough, what are these people, blood-sucking vampires? (I do know that her "plan" earns $100+/- a year interest - had to file 3 pages of a state form E just to document this??? She never had to pay a dime to the state as they don't tax federal pensions or SS, but DID promote their paperwork reduction act - seriously, THREE pages? Most of what is on that form is NFA.) I changed that to some other line on the Fed form and she's in a no income tax state now, so no state forms, plus I have tax guy do hers now.)
Like someone else said, I don't want her ashes here - she'd likely find a way to haunt me!
I'll re-read the rest of these thoughtful answers when I get a moment. I got sick shortly after asking this question, and haven't been able to!
That stinks if you end up having to pay more. They should be honest with their price quotes.
Same damn process, yet for under 10# it cost me $110, plus he was nice enough to do a second paw print for a shelter worker this kitty never forgot (moved in at age 4, lived with me 9 years, yet she ALWAYS remembered this person and would be all over her every time she visited!)
I'm with you - I asked for the paperwork for mom. We don't need it yet (at 96 who knows how long?) but this whole discussion prompted me to ask. I do know that mom had to shell out something like $2400 (saw it on some paperwork), but it isn't clear when they "purchased" their 'pre-burial'. When I took over her finances is when I would get interest 1099, so I made contact then and was told she was "nearly" paid up (dad passed in 2008), but didn't ask anything until now.
I need to follow up on the paperwork, as again she is "nearly" paid up, except for transport to the cemetery (Marine burial, so there shouldn't be any cost with them?) Although there are implications of cremation, it doesn't specify, so I need to query that. Since all of her generation are gone and any friends who might remain are likely unable to get around, it would most likely be me, my daughter, maybe my son, maybe YB, probably not OB, attending. So if this is an urn with ashes, why would I need/want transport? It's not like she's royalty or will have a multitude of people attending...
I need to contact them tomorrow...