Do I do something or stay out of it? And if I do something, what would I do? They're both adults. She's age 28. He's 93. I haven't been around them when they're together so didn't know what was happening, but church members at Dad's church have apparently been whispering for a couple of years. Recently, a couple of women told me I should not be allowing this to happen. And then a man at Gd's church said I should look into it.
She's my brother's daughter from his 3rd wife. GD bought her a car, and gives her money often, and in large amounts. I thought it was just because she talks baby talk to him and tells him how handsome and strong he is. Then I discovered that she's been manipulating him, so I assume she manipulated him to get those things. She gets really baby-like in her voice and showers him with a ton of flattery, then tells him how much she could do for him IF ONLY she had a new car, a new house, more money, etc.....so I'm onto her game, but, on the other hand, it's his money to spend as he pleases.
Very recently, I recorded a visit of theirs. My brother and his wife and daughter came to pick up GD and took him to their house. In the recording, I hear granddaughter ask if she's too heavy for him, so I assume she's in his lap. He says no, and then there's some banter:
He asks her to raise her skirt up to her belly button. SHe laughs and takes selfies and goes "mmmmmm" a lot. It sounds like she's breathing in his ear. It's weird for sure.
I'm not going to call police. There's not a single police officer around here who would do anything about that, especially since she's good about hiding it and I have no proof (and can't use the recording). I don't think a lawyer would touch it either. I'd ignore it, but I do have some concern about how much she's draining him, and giving money to her bf (who is an ex-con).
It's difficult to ascertain who is predator and who is prey here unless granddad suffers from dementia.
And how in the world is it that Church Members are aware of all of this (just HOW aware are they; are they aware there is a real sexual relationship here, or are they simply thinking she is after Grandfather's money?)
Did you always suspect there was a sexual relationship? If so, how or why?
Did you speak to the brother and wife?
Have you had them listen to the recording? (It won't be court admissible, and they may threaten you recorded without permission, but let them, if they would like this particular laundry washed in court). Authorities for elder abuse may be interested in it.
If the grandfather is demented then I think this is elder abuse. I would report it wherever Elder Abuse is best reported in your area.
If they can do nothing, then I would step away from this very "interesting family".
If Granddad isn't demented, then it is possible that he may have been abusing women and girls in his family for a long, long time.
If this granddaughter is predatory, then she is a sociopath (if abused by him all her life, not too surprising and an interesting payback).
If the parents don't care they are personality disordered, and there's not a whole lot YOU or the Church will be able to do about ANY of it. The granddaughter, if a victim of abuse, may ply her trade and take old Granddad for every penny he has. If he is not demented, then it is likely he is an abuser.
There are some pretty sick folks here, we just can't know how many at this point. And I sure agree with you I wouldn't have really a clue what to do about any of these folks.
I had no idea this was going on. I just found out very recently. The church ladies were so vague and are in their 80's, so I didn't know what they meant.
I don't talk to my brother much. Everyone says he's a con and a hustle and I believe it. He would not frown on what she's doing. In fact, he was nearby when this was all going on. And, as i mentioned in another reply, he's happy to reap the rewards of money she gets.
Gd didn't likely abuse her (at least not regularly) growing up because she was many states away and GD/GM only saw them for 2-3 days at a time every 4 years or so.
Knowing my Gd, I believe this is partly generational attitude towards females and partly joke for him. It's a dominance/virility display that isn't intended to go anywhere. What concerns me most is that she's encouraging it. And, though he fades in and out of a lucid state, she knows what SHE is doing.
Last, NO one in that family will ever be privy to the recordings. They are all cons and hustlers, so I'm the only one who will suffer repercussions from that.
1. She is not the caregiver, and they only pursue abuse from the caregiver.
2. It's hearsay. I do not have proof. I think it's unlikely anyone will write anything down, but even if they do, it's still not proof.
Ask each person at church who talked to you to put their complaint in writing.
If your GD and his great granddaughter have been acting in an inappropriate way, in a church that you also attend, for two years, how is it that you do not know about it?
1) You and GD start attending a different church.
2) Take control of the money, no more gifts to the ex-con.
3) Share privately with the POA or your brother, ask his advice. (Money).
4) Make sure, as his caregiver (he lives with you?), that you are not complicit in any criminal behavior(s). And make sure he has enough money if ever he needs a nursing home, because if he runs out of money, there will be a 5 year look back to find out where his money went. Are you also POA?
5) From now on, in your brother's family's presence, you are on double duty and present at all times.
1. I don't attend that church. That's why I refer to it as "Gd's church".
I used to take him there and drop him off for mass and various things he wants to attend. Now, he only goes there with neighbors who take him.
2. I don't have the legal right to control his money.
3. My brother would deny it if I told him. He's always happy to have his daughter do whatever is necessary to get money, since they all reap the rewards.
4. I am not POA
5. I have not been invited to my brother's house, which, btw, GD (and GM) bought. Keeping GD from going down there is not within my legal rights, nor would it be in my best interests, since they're likely to claim abuse.
Both being of age is not the problem. Its incest. I wonder if this has gone on for a long time. A 28 yr old should not be acting like this.
And then you can honestly tell your church-going acquaintances that you've done everything in your power to bring this matter to the authorities' attention, and it's in their hands now.
What a disgraceful situation, that's for sure.
My mother, who is dying of cancer, so can't take care of GD, spent over $2k just to talk to a lawyer in hopes of addressing another matter of abuse against her now-deceased mother. That lawyer didn't do a damn thing.
...sorry to have bothered you, self-righteous know it all....
for some reason, I thought this was a support group.
I am sorry that he is being victimized by an unscrupulous little hussy. Men are men, ones those hormones kick in and then having mental deficiencies, he is going to eat up her behavior and roll over like a dog to give her anything she requires to keep up the perverse behavior.
Can you install nanny cams or something that can videotape the behavior? If this is taking place in your home you are completely within your rights to video recording. I have a sign that states protected by alarm system. Covers me because it notifies everyone approaching my home that I have a system that protects me and my home, it's like a no trespassing sign is the 1st notice and you can now call the police and have someone removed, because they have been told 2xs to git.
Does he pay you for your caregiving services? If not, you should get a contract in place and start getting paid. If he is willing to fork it over for a hoochie show he can pay and pay well for your services.
This is where the term dirty old man comes from. My dad is similar in believing the manipulation because he thinks he is Adonis. Yuck.
Either he has heard the rumours and disbelieves them, and perhaps even disbelieves his own ears and eyes (because wouldn't you?), in which case you can gently remind him that sometimes we have to face up to a rude awakening;
Or he hasn't heard a word of it, will angrily deny everything and insist it's just cute, but then may pause for thought.
In any case, it would be better for him to tackle this situation than for you. Only, make sure he does something before tempers fray and APS get a lot of highly-coloured reports from a lot of different people who've got together to put the boot in.
Living with Gpa changes what I said but he still probably needs more care than u can give.
I agree, the police cannot do anything legally. They will probably say its a family matter. The only thing a lawyer can do is help u get guardianship which is expensive (can use Gpas money) but a lot of responsibility that once gotten, you can't revolk. State is involved. The other thing is Adult Protection Services. They need to investigate the abuse of his money which should be used for his care in the future. And will make it hard to get Medicaid. He really isn't an "adult" in the legal sense if he has Dementia. He is no longer capable of making informed decisions. If APS investigates and finds Gpa is being abused, they can petition for a temporary guardian assigned by the state. I would allow this. You say nothing about ur Mom having siblings. If she does, they need to get involved. If not, I doubt if you want the care of Gpa. The state taking over may be the best option. They can find a place for Gpa a lot easier than u can. Yes, his money will be used for his care but he will get Medicaid a lot easier with them than u trying to get it.