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(This is actually an update to a previous question where I was advised to have him diagnosed)
Hi. I recently posted about a friend, let's call him Mike (70), I am convinced has dementia. His doctor yesterday told us he was 'fine'. But I have been in this situation for about 7 years now and I disagree. Just a few points: A.) the doctor did a 3-question mini-mental and Mike answered correctly (except the day) but with hesitation. B.) Mike lied about taking his BP tablets; he has taken 3 weeks' worth over the past 3 months (I checked before we left). C.) He lied about 'coping', saying he does all his own ironing, etc. In fact, he eats ONLY takeouts, does no washing and baths once every two months (he showered before going to the doctor, the first time in two months). D.) The fact is he has had to sell his house to pay debts relating to non-payment of utility bills. E.) Asked what he 'does', he replied reads, goes for walks, watches TV and keeps busy. In fact, he reads newspaper (not books), does no housework or cooking, walks 20 minutes a day, goes to pub every night, stares into space. His TV has been broken for the past two or three months. His laptop lies on the floor with a broken screen, so he uses the TV screen to get onto the internet where he accesses various webcam sites and porn.

I did an online test as a friend for dementia. He scored 15 (1 to 5 being 'normal').

So, am I wrong? Is this just laziness/ depression (there is a good possibility of this). Or is just still at a stage where he manages to hide it? Or is the doctor an idiot?

Regarding the doctor, to be fair, it may well be that Mike is actually functional and the doc thinks it's not at a point where anything needs to be done. Plus, the doctor must have noticed how dishevelled he looks.

My decision right now is to walk away. To take the odd meal and be a friend, e.g. invite him for a barbecue, ask if he needs stuff. But NOT to go and fetch his medication, only remind him when it needs renewing, not chase him up on it every few days. I have done what I can and now it is up to his family. (Sons who live up the road visit about every 3 months or so. Sisters pop in and rant at filthy house but think he is just lazy. I am the one to take him to doctor, for X-rays, to the shops, etc. NO MORE. He told the doctor he has no problem going to the mall. In fact, he hasn't been for a couple of months. Eats takeouts and buys coffee locally. Has no need for cleaning materials. Even admits his underpants are so old they fall down around his waist.).

I have spoken to pub friends and neighbours: 'Hell. Mike's been wearing the same shirt and jeans with a hole in the crotch for two weeks now.' 'I asked Mike what he and James had been talking about last night but he couldn't rememember he'd spoken to James.' 'His house smells awful.'

Thanks in advance. I guess I want confirmation that it's OK for someone else to pick up the reins now. We were an item for a while but are just friends now. I work from home and, just starting a new business, don't have time to be a carer. I also have an 81 year old mother who takes a bit of my time (she is GREAT and fit and fine but needs help, for e.g. taking car to mechanic, and I like to spend fun and quality time with her going out and having meals. Who knows how long she has.)

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after rereading you question....this guy has a drinking problem!!! drinks every night at the pub??? of course he doesn't remember the day before!!
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Wait a minute....he has no food, milk or gas...does he have alcohol in the house??? or did you say he goes to the bar every night? i agree, if he has a drinking problem...all these signs are part of the problem!!
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Llamalover, do you really think it's someone's fault if he or she becomes addicted? I don't think anyone picks up a drink, or cigarette, or "recreational" drug with the intention of becoming addicted. There are psychological factors involved.
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Timeout, thanks for sharing your thoughts again.

In the long and short run, sometimes misunderstandings and miscommunications and responses in posts may actually help because the parties then truly realize how the other person is thinking. That sometimes happens in posts when people literally let go and write whatever's on their minds, regardless how violent, but many other times it doesn't occur.

I think it's also easy for me to sit here at a computer and type responses but if I were in that situation, it might not be quite so easy for me to follow my own advice.

And when you really care for something, it's just not that easy to turn off the concern and consideration and close the emotional door on your way out.

I guess the best exchanges are those in which we all learn something.
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Time Out: You don't care if he stinks?HOW CAN YOU STAND TO BE AROUND HIM?!!!!
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TimeOut: #1 Why do you think you "HAVE" to lend him gasoline money????? If he's drank all his funds up (which, btw, alcoholics do), then that is his fault, NOT YOURS! #2 Locate a church that hosts the addictions support group meetings called Reformers Unanimous (Reform U) and get him (no, wait a minute, let the family GET HIM TO ONE)!!
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GardenArtist. Offence taken BUT I shouldn't have. So, I apologise too. I responded instead of thinking first. In fact, my response offended you/ made you feel 'bad'. Sorry. I have take on your suggestion about updates. There is good news today (since last post). Mike passed my window on his way to another friend up the road. Apparently his son and daughter-in-law were at his house cleaning up! He seemed a bit stressed they were throwing some stuff out but I suggested they throw things into boxes and store in shed, and if he doesn't need in a couple of months, THEN they can get rid of those boxes. He liked that idea. He told me they threw out the powdered milk as it was hard (he doesn't drink milk so I take stock him up with powdered for when I go there for coffee); bit anxious there. LOL. Interesting. He said: 'I don't know what I've done to deserve all this attention.' Bottom line. I don't think there is a breakthrough or anything but definitely something positive happening.
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TimeOut, I apologize if I seemed too final in suggesting addressing your reluctance to let the family handle the care. Babalou makes a good point. And as you explained the situation, it isn't one from which you can pull away easily. I'm sure there will be a lot of anguish as you try to balance what you think should be done vs. what you feel emotionally.

So, yes, come back but just preface your post with an update and the fact that you're still attempting to resolve the situation, but now what you're facing is trying to balance the issues of moving through that murky area of how to address, balance, and reach your own goals...something like that.

Again, sorry if I offended you. It wasn't intended. I can tell you have a sincere commitment to your friend and this is a real challenge for you.
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I was just going to add that if his family hasn't stepped in by now they probably wont and then things will take care of themselves. He won't take medications and then something will happen. His "fuzzy" feeling is probably due to not taking meds and not eating properly, drinking, etc. This WILL take care of itself one way or the other. Call APS or whatever you have in your country and then step back. I love my friends but when they won't help themselves and I'm trying so hard, I'm afraid I would have stepped back a long time ago. I have my mom and dad to take care of and just don't have anymore energy to expend to someone that is sick and needs help from professionals that can help him. Good luck to you and God Bless you for all that you have done.
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There's no reason not to be here; if we asked the ditherers to leave, there'd be no one here. NOW is the time to call APS. He has no milk, food and no means of getting any. This is what they need to see.
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GardenArtist. You're absolutely right. I don't think I WANT to be involved. It's a bit more complicated than that, for me anyway. He is my friend, we lived together once. He lent me the down payment when I bought my first house. I want the friendship to continue. Friends don't just walk away. And when a situation like this arises, it is very difficult to find that middle ground where you can help within reason and without getting involved. In this case, I don't HAVE to lend him petrol money. I can just sit back and know he has no milk or bread, can't go and fetch the newspaper, etc. If he has dementia, the situation as far as I can gather is that it is NOT his fault. And no matter how much his family SHOULD be involved, the fact is they aren't.

But you are right too. If I can't change in the weeks since my first post, I probably shouldn't be on this site. On other hand, if I can, I don't need the advice.

Thanks!
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From your answers, I think his problem is alcohol abuse. It does that to people. Nothing you can do.
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Reform U website-if you think he ia a user.
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As they say in the twelve step programs:

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

I have to take the first steps.
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I think you answered the question many of us have asked:

"Yes, my resolution to step back will happen over time. Last night he mentioned he has no petrol till pension gets paid so I have to lend him money"

You HAVE to lend him money? No, you don't. You're not family.

This is a choice, one which I expect you'll continue to make regarding involvement in other aspects of his life.

Honestly, don't you think it's better to admit that you WANT to be involved and avoid the dilemma of debating whether (not when) to withdraw? Just be honest with yourself; there's nothing wrong with that.

But a lot of people have invested some time to help you out. If you don't want to change, remember that the next time you decide to post and request advice.

I think it's more important to be honest with yourself than attempt something that isn't going to happen. Just make peace with what he is and do what you can and be content with that.
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I agree with both LifeExperiences and Ferris about the laziness. While it is not a good term to bandy about, it should not be ruled outright.

And, in response to another comment. Yes, my resolution to step back will happen over time. Last night he mentioned he has no petrol till pension gets paid so I have to lend him money. LOL!
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Salisbury, my sympathies as I don't live with Mike. I understand your frustration with your husband tho', as you mine. What has really helped me besides this forum (I'm wordless for how grateful I am), I think a sense of humour helps. I tell my mom 'the latest' and we cackle away madly ... 'He did what ...? LOL!'

Perhaps making lots of notes after a conversation? With dates on them. Maybe stuck on a board or something. Then he can remind himself and you won't feel like a nag.
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In response to two other comments, he became a slob when he retired, 10 years ago.His daughter-in-law mentioned it to me once. I don't care if he stinks, BUT we all know how a good bath makes us feel - refreshed and invigorated. :-) It's not just about being offensive to others seeing as he lives alone.
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In answer to another comment, yes, his symptoms could be alcohol-related. Not quite sure how to explain it, he doesn't show any signs of drinking too much but he drinks every day and probably has for the past 40 years.
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Hi
Your comments have made me think of a few things. When Mike first had his 'hiccup', as he calls it, I DID do some research and the University of Cape Town DOES have a clinic. Free as they use the data for research and study. I think that Mike might be amenable to this. It's less 'threatening' than a doctor. It's kind of focusing on why he has this 'fuzzy' feeling and can't always remember things (which he admits) rather than doing a test at the doctor to see if he may have's. This way, it could still be (he thinks this is his problem) a lack of vitamins and the fact he played with a broken thermometer when he was young (mecury poisoning). Who knows, he could have a point there. When I have time, this is an avenue to explore.

A good test is important, that is clear from the comments above, because it's the unknown that is scary. I told him last night: 'I don't really care about your lifestyle choice, whether you do dishes, but I don't know what's wrong and I'm frustrated.' That's what it boils down to.
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my previous response was deleted, so i'm going to reword it...was he a slob before...you've known him for years. if he was...then nothing has changed. let his family take care of him...it's going to get worse...sounds like you're already burned out!
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If your friend has a substance abuse problem, it could match all these symptoms. Is that a possibility? You should think about reading the book CO-DEPENDENT NO MORE by Melody Beaty. It was an eyeopener for me about saving people.
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dear ferris1....that is my opinion...you have yours and I have mine! he could very well be a lazy slob...I think his friend knows his past and his present state. Was he a sloppy guy before????
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If he's stopped bathing recently, as in the last few years, I'd say it's cause for concern, but if he's always been one to skip baths, he just may be that way. I used to work with someone who rarely bathed. Perfectly fine in every other way, but we had to go to the boss and campaign to order him to bathe because he stunk so bad. Some folks, sadly, are just slobs.
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A 70 year old man acting this way? Not taking a shower for months? Step back, BUT HIS FAMILY NEEDS TO GET HIM TO A PSYCHOLOGIST LIKE NOW! Something's wrong with this man BIG TIME! Honestly, I don't know how you have been able to deal with his stench! Give it up! Someone else can step up.
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I think I would most definitely get a second opinion for your friend.
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Salisbury: Have your husband looked at by a geriatric specialist; the first thing you may want to look at is what meds he is already on and find out if any of them have side effects involving memory or brain function(statin drugs do); also check for infections. Some people have reported good effects from adding coconut oil to their diet.
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I went through that testing with my mom several times. Brought it up to the doctor and they gave her a three- or five-question test. I called the police for wellness checks. Both thought she was fine. I finally called adult protective services and they say mom needs a guardian.
Since you're not family, you may need to step back a bit and just keep an eye out. If you think there's a real danger, call adult protective services or social services or whatever agency.
It sounds like he's still active in some ways -- the daily walk, a visit to the pub, etc., -- so that's good. It beats total isolation.
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Please don't throw words out like "slob" and "lazy" when you in fact have no idea what the person is experiencing. It is a symptom, nothing more, nothing less.
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Hi timeout! thank goodness you get it...no one is making you suffer but yourself...he has a family, and this situation will get worse, he's only 70??? Yikes It sounds like he's just a slob...and doesn't care either.
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