Do I argue with Mother with dementia?

I know what you mean, Frances2. Get into their world and go along with their delusions. But if their world is a very scary place and their delusions include their loved ones plotting against them, it is hard to figure out how to do that productively.

What I have tried is to acknowledge the feeling. The feeling is real. I don't agree with the scary delusion but I try to be comforting about it. Then I try to distract to a different topic. Always successful? Hmm ... no, I can't say it has been.

"Oh Mom, it must seem very strange to be in a new place now! Nothing is familiar. The people are all different than the ones you are used to. Not everyone even knows your name yet, and you certainly can't remember the names of all these new people. I'll bet you feel confused and unhappy." ... "I'm so sorry you are unhappy. This new place has more people to help you. Once you get used to everyone this is going to work out fine. I'll be there to see you the day after tomorrow. Is there anything you would like me to bring for you?" ... "You know, I think your winter robe is looking a little shabby. Is it time for a new one? Should I bring in my computer and we can pick one out for you?"

summary: You are unhappy and you have reason to be. I am very sorry about that. Things will get better. Change of subject-- how about a new bath robe?

jeannegibbs is right. What your mom is feeling, seeing, imagining is very real to her. Imagine what that would be like if we were going through the same thing and people were telling us it wasn't real, that it was all in our minds. That would be awful!

Don't argue with her but as Jeanne said, acknowledge her feelings and then redirect her to something else. Redirection can be exhausting for a caregiver and I found that it was helpful to have a running list in my head of my go-to subjects in which to redirect. That way you're not in the moment, at a loss for what to say.

Give the Depakote a little time to work and if your mom can't seem to settle in maybe discuss with her Dr. an anti-anxiety medication.

In my experience, there's no real point trying to argue a "reality" to them. However, the anxiety is very real and I suggest as Everishlass did that you speak with her doctor about some anti-anxiety or antidepressant medication. My father's mental status improved tremendously once he got on those.

From what I understand from my father's doctors, the Depakote does not restore lost memory function, but only prevents further loss. Keep that in mind as you journey through this lifestage with your Mom. Best of luck to you.

My mother ended up needing an anti-psychotic to com her down. After being in the asst living home for about 2 months my mother very uncharacteristically became mean, combative, and verbally abusive. The owner of the home (without my knowledge) contacted the doctor after I had already had a conversation about not using the drugs and had the doctor order it anyway. I noticed within a few days that my mother has calmed down and returned to her normal personality. It was not until 4 weeks after the fact that when I was handed a list of her medications to take to her doctor that I saw that she had been on it. I confronted the doctor and was told that the home had contacted him and said that I had given the ok for the drug. I was furious yet I saw the great improvement to this day mom is still on a low dosage of anti-psychotic. I also moved my mother out of that home and into where she is now because of what they did. Mom still gets stuck in a loop and will ask to go home, say she is bored, ask why she is there ect. She is safe where she is, well taken care of, and this is just what needs to be. No sense arguing your mom won't remember in a day, or maybe in an hour why she is there. Just part of journey that bucks the most!

You don't say how long she's been there, but if you could try to get her involved in the place, the people, the activities. I wouldn't tell her I'm coming if I wasn't. Don't argue, but affirm that she does live there, she needs to be cared for more than you could, etc. The drugs can make people WORSE, so be aware of that. If you can visit more frequently in the beginning, it's helpful (or other family to visit?).
You could ask the staff for advice to make it feel more like home to her... some of her stuff, pictures, etc. And make sure she is being treated well at the facility!

Excellent comments here!

I validated my dad with all the "good" things but when he saw war on TV (he wasn't supposed to have the TV on during news) - he was certain there was a war in our community and he accused me of lying to him when I said there wasn't. It was distressing to say the least.

All that I could do was acknowledge his stress and in a kind way tell him the was was in a different part of the world and the war couldn't get to him.. Did it help? No. I tried to make him feel safe and let him know I was there. Eventually it passed and he moved on to something else. We can't make it all go away no matter how hard we try. My heart is with you.

Please read the full string on comments as each one has something valuable to share.
Take care,
Carol

I agree.

There's no point in arguing. And...

Get the meds checked. Something should be working better than this.

My 89 year old grandfather is also suffering with dementia. He replays past events over and over in his mind and talks about it every time I visit. He is fixated on one of the great grandchildren being a child, whom is 23 years old. He wants to protect him and give him money all the time. The great grandson takes full advantage of that. Granddad calls all hours of the night confused and not knowing where he is. Sometimes he thinks morning is evening and vise versa. However, sometimes he seems normal. He is currently in a rehab facility for broken ribs and multiple falls at home. If he gets to go home he will need full time care. Which opens up having to trust other people being with him alone. I understand how you feel and it is so stressful when you don't have much support from the family.

Have the nurses at the home talk to her and maybe give her an ativan to calm her down when she gets like that. If you can get her to give the phone to them. That is what I did. And told them I didn't want her calling me when she was in that state anymore. I couldn't do anything about it, and could not deal with it. My mother is not argumentative, but if she asks a question that I don't want to answer, I change the subject or make up a story that will make her feel better. She feels better and forgets about it.

I understand fully what the others above are feeling. My Mom insists it is Easter, or a particular day of week, when it isn't. Gets upset when trying to show her calendar or date on newspaper, so yes, destraction, introducing a different topic is most helpful or simply agreeing with her at the moment when you know she is getting upset. In their mind, the day is real to them.

My mother was suspicious, angry, combative, hostile, negative and generally very unhappy with her move in January. However, over time she learned to recognize a few of the staff and residents. I don't argue with her anymore. However, if she says something totally off the charts that would affect her current situation (like "You told me you are moving in her with me") I give a firm, smiling, polite "no" and move along to a different topic in the next sentence. When she does manage to say something that makes sense, I make a pretty big deal about her being 'absolutely correct' and it being 'a good idea'. Advising me on life issues seems to be comforting to her.
There are websites that will tell you all about the drugs her doctor has prescribed...I like drugs website but there are many others. I finally had the phone removed from Mom's room. I sure don't miss the 5 to 10 phone calls a day that were totally awful.
And if it's just too overwhelming and driving you around the bend, stay away a little while longer than usual. Give yourself a day off from it all.

I can so relate with you, Frances2! We moved my 88 yr-old mother in with us a year ago. Well, the first 5-6 months went pretty smoothly. Then about 6-7 months ago, she no longer remembered who we were! I'm ashamed to say I got into a big argument a couple of times trying to convince her that I was her daughter! She didn't believe me when I tried to show her pictures and she ended up trying to leave! So I learned pretty quick not to argue with her. Now I have to play along with this charade that I am just a lady that takes care of her. As a result, over the past 6-7 months she says she doesn't live here and wants to go home to her Mom and Dad's house in Minneapolis all of the time, even though we tell her over and over that they are long gone and that there is no one left there that can take care of her. We have had to learn to try and validate the feelings without arguing, and redirect just as best as we can. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I can't imagine how scary it would be to wake up every day and not know where you are or who these strange people are! It is very frustrating to say the least, so we are going to be moving her into a nursing home next month. It is time. I am sure she will still be doing the same thing there, but at least I will have a little separation since it hurts sometimes that she doesn't remember me. I am saddened over the fact that we don't really share that mother-daughter relationship anymore. Anyway, I am ready to have my life back.

You have some great ideas here as far as redirecting her. I try not to fib if at all possible, so I wouldn't tell my mom I'm coming to visit if I wasn't. However, what I have done in the past when my mother was in a new ALF was try to get her connected to other residents in the dining room during mealtime just to ease the transition. When I was coming I would promise to take her out to her favorite restaurant or bring her a special treat such as a Wendy's Frosty. When I was there and she was being paranoid I would reassure her that everything was okay and then try to redirect her to an activity going on there, or to a magazine to read. I would let the nurses know that she is being paranoid and to check her for a UTI. I would place family photos and other recognizable items in her apartment to bring her comfort. I called the doctor about her becoming more scared, paranoid, and even agitated and asked him to prescribe something to calm her down. Just FYI, the doctor did prescribe an anti-psychotic for her which actually made her symptoms worse! Then the physician assistant prescribed Ativan (Lorazepam) and it does seem to keep her more calm, especially at night when she's going through Sundowner's. So what works for some may not work for others, just FYI. It may take some experimentation on the Dr.'s part to find something that works for your mom.

Most of all, best of luck to you! Hope this helps, and keep us posted on how it's going, if you find anything that works, etc.

Take care!

Why was she prescribed Depakote? That's an anti-seizure drug used in seizure patients and/or people diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Does she have either one of those illnesses? I tried it for two days, and it was awful! Consider talking with her doctor and unless he/she is a psychiatrist ask for an alternative or no drug at all. Since she still has memory of her former residence, just try to be patient and let time work. Keep reminding her she is safe and that is what you want for her. Again, this is a terminal illness and most times it is hardest for the loved ones who have to endure the constant pleadings of the dementia patient. She will stop asking to go home, lose the ability to speak, and her suffering will end. Hang in there.

My Mom thinks her room at the nursing home is her apartment. So I just started referring to it as such. She want to move to a bigger apartment and I simply tell her that I am looking, but have not found one to suit her needs yet, which isn't quite a lie. I try not to argue but to validate that I hear what she is saying and that seems to keep the stress to a minimum.

NO .using logic with someone who has lost the capacity to reason will no longer change. Does she phone you from her own cell phone? Does she use the facility's phone or are you calling her? Try to reduce the phone calls. Have someone local to her, visit her or talk with her care providers to get information instead. Your calls remind her she is not at hime at this moment.

I would encourage you not to argue with your Mother who has Dementia, because her reality is different than your own, and it will make it more difficult for you in the long run. I would reach out to your local Alzheimer's Association and ask them for printed and online resources you can refer to that will coach you on how to deal with difficult behaviors. In some cities they also have respite grants you can apply for!

It may also help if you are placing your parent or need help at home to get a caregiver to stay with them until they have time to adjust to the transition.

When my mom deteriorated to the point that there was little or no reality, I just went with wherever she took us for the day. I must day that now there are some very find memories. When mom had some more scary things or things that agitated her, I took the lead and steered the illusion to something pleasant or at least more manageable. For example, on one occasion she was hearing voices and there were men with guns trying to kill us. I walked about 5 feet away, started stomping my feet really hard and yelled through the floor - you kids turns that tv down you're bothering Grandma!! I then walked back to mom and apologized that the kids had had the tv up so loud. That was enough to move mom on. Trying to convince her that something wasn't real would have caused me anxiety and probably put me in a looney bin. To her it was real, her fear was very real so you may have to manipulate reality at times but I was able to let the actress in me shine. (Lol) I say have fun with it and laugh when you can; there will be enough times when you have to argue - to go to dr, to get a shower, to eat. My mom has been gone 18 years now and I still miss her. Give yours an extra squeeze for me in memory of my mom. ; )

My Dad continually asked why he was where he was, and when he was 'going home' after being placed into Memory Care. What worked best for us was to simply tell him that his doctor wanted him to be there, and that he was there, to get meds to help his brain work better. He understood he had dementia and he had been on meds at home, so this response would calm him down. He would not remember he had asked the same thing yesterday, so our answer was always acceptable to him, as he always respected his doctors and wanted to do what the docs wanted. Then we would just use diversion....ask a different question; suggest going for a walk or getting a treat to eat. I always went in the direction he wanted to talk about. Or I would ask his opinion about something that was in eyesight if I was with him. And getting good meds on board IS the most helpful thing. I was always fearful that my Dad would be snowed and sitting there drooling or such, and was happy to see that anti psychotic meds, if ordered by an experienced doc, are started in small doses and increased until the person really is in a more normal state. Never was he sitting and drooling. And within several weeks, he was OK with where he lived and recognized it as 'home'. We could take him out for a treat, a ride, or a meal, and he was happy to go back and walk through the gate again. I would be asking for a med review by the doctor if she continues to be so upset.

Surpised your parents can call. One of the first problems my Mom had was being able to use the telephone and the TV remote.
This "not arguing" is hard. My Mom is in the "between" stage. Confused and knows something is wrong. Thinks she is going crazy. At times I think it would be better if she was totally in her own world. I'm finding the less said the better. Can't have a conversation because she can't process most of it quick enough. I and DH are explainers. I am learning to make it short. They will never fully understand because the short term memory is lost. Yes, sometimes they do remember but like someone here said, it must be important to them. My Aunt was in an AL/nursing home for 12 years. For years she was going to "get out of here". They always want to go home. It may not be the last " home" they had. It could be their childhood home. Which with my Aunt, was no longer in the family.

My Mom will be here a year next month and I believe thinks she is just visiting. The other night she said it was OK if she slept on the couch.

A friends Aunt had no children of her own or extended family who could care for her once her Dementia progressed where she couldn't be alone. She was placed in a nursing facility. She thought she was in a nice hotel because she went to a dining room for meals. She was happy there.
It is sad to watch my Mom going downhill and to be honest, I still am not handlingit well. We were never huggers and kissers in my family. The one time she was in the hospital and I kissed her cheek, she thought she was dying. Very hard to be that way now.

I get so frustrated sometimes with my parents; Mom has Alzheimers moderate-to-severe stage and Dad is knocking on the door of dementia plus both their critical other health issues...so, when my frustration is at it's peak, as hard as it is, I look into their eyes....do that, the next time your loved one is extremely anxious, or demanding, or....just look at their eyes. I guarantee you will see fear staring right back at you !!! Then, if you have ANY amount of conscious, be softer in your voice, give a hug/smile, be NICE !!! Kindness and love is what they need/want, not someone bitching back at them, etc......I know this first hand so I know what I'm talking about....FIND A WAY TO COMFORT THEM IF ONLY BY A SMILE, HUG, or softer tone in your voice....they are scared to death of being alone, dying, around strangers or a 'feeling' that they have....just step into their shoes and you'll figure it out....life has a way of 'slapping us back in the face' and give your loved ones what they need....

The Alzheimer's Association has a 24/7 helpline with counselors who will speak with you about the challenges you are facing. They are wonderful.
The library has DVDs that explain Alzheimer's and how to cope. You might look on line to search pictures of the brain with Alzheimer's. Once you see how the brain has shrunk and that there are actual holes in key areas controlling, behavior, cognition, and executive functioning you will see that the person is not being obstinate or uncooperative on purpose. The individual no longer has the ability to behave or relate as yu and I do. Therefore, you need professional help to cope.

I so fully understand your walk because I am on the journey myself. I am the primary Caregiver for my husband(67) with dementia. Redirection is a recommended tactic, but I find it doesn't work with a strong willed person who was always in charge. Don't argue, simply because there's no reasoning. The best thing is to join their reality, use love, lots of patience ,prayer and meds. My husband takes anti-anxiety , antidepressant and antipsychotic and does his dance music at his daycare. The meds will definitely help your loved one and you will keep your sanity. Even with all this we just can't control everything, the disease will run its course. Best wishes to all as you journey.

arguing in people with dementia.....the sane person will not win. And even if the doctor put a patient on a pill to keep them calm when the family didn't want them. Then they (the family) needs to be with the patient 24/7 because these nurses/aids don't have all day to take care of one patient that is off the wall with paranoid/frantic behaviors. I understand we don't want our loved ones drugged, but also think of it this way, your family member in the facility must feel awful being in a frantic mood and could cause harm to themselves or others if not kept a little calmer. I thank God for the caregivers where my dad is, they have a couple of patients that can get very loud, disturbed and angry, can you imagine have 30 or 40 of these patients being this way (if they didn't give them a little something to help with the anxiety). The caregivers themselves would become patients. yes the patients get stuck in a loop, my dad was in one the other day with something to do with moving a can. I tried several times of changing subject, didn't work, I even pretended to move the can, but that didn't work either.

If Mom's state of mind and confusion is distressing to her at a particular moment, I try to explain and clarify the situation then immediately change the subject and distract her. If she is confused but not distressed, I try to "enter her world" as she can no longer be present in mine. An ongoing battle to keep her as calm and lucid as possible and not obsessing over whatever the issue of the day is. She will be admitted to a Memory Care center soon and I have requested a prn Xanax prescription for her, as I know it will be distressing for her and that I will receive MANY calls from her until she settles in (if she EVER does). I am bracing myself for "Why am I here? Cant I go home? Can I come to your house? Why are all these people so old?" etc, etc. But it is the best option for her and she will be well taken care of 24/7. Just the next step in caring for her and dealing with this awful disease. One day at a time.

Why is she on Depakote? Is she epileptic or bi-polar or suffering from chronic migraine headaches? Depakote has improperly been used as a chemical restraint for nursing homes residents. It is directly associated with the mismanagement of medical care for the nation's elderly and is the subject of the second largest drug marketing settlement in US history: $1.6B in 2012. And the lawsuits are not over- another $9.25M settlement occured this month. It incapacitated my dear, late 89-year-old father to whom it was wrongly administered.

Arguing only makes matters worse. Now that these Fiduciary laws are in place it can be a problem if outsiders do not know your family dynamics such as you and your mom arguing. Adult Protective Services can step in if complaints are made about the arguing. Another guardian or Power of Attorney could be appointed in your place. If I were you although she does not remember a lot of stuff I would get a third party to witness this argument and possibly offer some advice. Believe me like the good book said the world will grow colder and that is why we cannot argue with family. We have to have someone help us with our family that is another relative you can trust or all will be lost.

Hi there. I unfortunately do not have much advice as I am currently going through the same thing with my mum. I have found arguing doesn't help but the frustration you feel just makes you want to argue. All I can say is you are not alone with not knowing what to do I feel for you and all of us who are going though this. Remember to take care of yourself as we'll and also remember later on she will not recall what happened and you are the one worn out with the arguing. Try and stay calm. Take care