It is a tough position your sister put you in - she is reneging on a verbal agreement to do the right thing. She has no conscience & is not a great person for sticking you with a huge burden.
What’s your mom’s take on this?
Does she want “peace” and is blaming you for causing trouble? This is how my parents would see it. They would let the other sibling do what they wanted & pressure me to carry the entire burden.
Not a good idea. Going back and forth from your home to your brother's home. Not a good idea. Your brother doesn't have to notarize anything. He doesn't have to agree to it. Use your Mother's money to put her into a facility so they can take care of her without all of this going back and forth.
Just to share that my brother and I are splitting care for our mother. We live in the same community so that we tell our mother to go visit for each ones turn and we share weekly care. Our mother exhibits dementia symptoms and moving back and forth is not a big deal with her. Her personal belongings are in both places so We don’t pack clothes nor medications to bring.
If you drew up a contract created by an attorney, then your sister didn't sign it...then what? You can't notarize a contract between two people if the other party doesn't sign it because they don't agree with it. If you are both chipping in money to prop up a "solution" , this is unsustainable and robbing from both of your futures. Also, did I read correctly that you sister is married? If so, this arrangement would also need to be agreed upon by her husband, since he would have priority over your mother. And, even if sister did agree to the 6mo/6mo thing, please consider that that is fairly disruptive to your mom, especially once her cognition starts to really decline. Does your sister live locally to you? Does your mother not have enough assets to pay for AL or an adult daycare? I understand there doesn't seem to be a good option except the 6/6split, especially if she has meager funds. I sincerely wish you and sister peace and wisdom as you try to work it out.
If your sibling is willing to sign such a contract, having it notarized will not add anything to its enforceability. I would be amazed if you could have a court enforce such a contract in the first place. You and your sibling may feel a moral obligation to care for your mother, but neither of you are under a legal one. However, if you both agree to provide for her, I think its a good idea to write down the ground rules from the start with the understanding that the agreement is not legally enforceable.
It would be terrible if you could have a court enforce something like this. None of us is obligated or required to give up our lives so that our invalid parent can remain at home.
Imho, while a template may or may not exist, if you don't like the caregiving dynamic, don't continue on or expect payment (or do) from your LO, who may be poverty stricken or financially stable. I know not her financials.
Caresplitin, when under carer stress I sought a Councelor. When asked what sibling help I got, my resentment was still raw & oozing out.
Some questions came up that made me think... What if I was a boy? What if I lived miles away? Would it still be assumed I could help? We joked about if I was a long haul truck driver in a mining town.
What if your sister was a long haul truck driver?
Or you had mine: 'Sister who brings cake'. She brings the decorations & makes a happy event. No hands-on.
That kind of plan is only as good as the people who are willing to abide by it. What happens if a sibling gets sick or hospitalized or decides he/she can not do it any more? Those agreements are not legally binding.
There is no such template that I am aware exists. You can draw something up that meets your needs, have it signed and notarized but then what happens? How do you enforce it? What leverage do you have to enforce it? There's no law to protect you. If she has funds, perhaps someone can be hired to give you relief, or maybe you siblings could chip in and hire, or maybe they could give of their time. Or are you at that fork in the road where placement needs to occur. Have you contacted the area agency on Aging to see if she us eligible for any services. If she 8s able, have you investigated adult day care? It is a shame that caregiving typically falls on one person but unfortunately in my experience as a geriatric social worker, It's the norm. Very sad but true.
I sense that OP is more looking to be heard and respected than anything else. A contract is a clear means of communication and everyone knows where they stand with it. I think OP has been dealing with family avoiding the subject, changing the subject, no-showing the family meeting, etc and the legal route is being attempted as a result. I do agree that siblings may not sign it anyway due to feeling offended by it or believing it's not necessary. I also don't know that it would be enforceable legally, but something that's spelled out on paper might be something family members would choose to honor between themselves. I just know if MY sibling approached me with a piece of paper, it would undoubtedly get my attention as I'd have to take another look at why someone would feel that was necessary to do with me. What are the issues that sibling is being faced with? Why doesn't she feel I understand? Being approached with a piece of paper would definitely open doors to an honest-to-goodness discussion of the issues and maybe that's that OP is needing more than an actual legal intervention.
Um...the Op was absolutely clear with what she wants—it’s the last sentence of her post. She wants a contact saying her mom will live with her for 6 months and with the sibling for the other 6 months. You also should read her replies, she hasnt been ignored. She’s been ignoring the fact that what she wants isn’t sustainable and her sister isn’t in agreement with a 6 month arrangement.
see an attorney - get a power of attorney and living will developed. If you believe that your mother is not competent to sign these documents, an attorney who specializes in elder care is the best resource, You night talk with your local office of aging for some guidance and resources
Have a "family meeting" and a contract, if it has to be legal. There is usually one caregiver in the family and the others are just thankful they do not have to do it. If your family does not have anyone with the motivational gift of caregiving...you can do it out of love cause it has to be done. But, long term....you must have "respite care" for your self. Medicare will pay for a week in a nursing facility. If you are the chosen caregiver. You cannot do this for a long period of time or your mother will be subjected to the results of your anxiety. I hear that already in your "plea" for help.
Your siblings had every right to chose not to take her in their homes. You don’t need to waste your time on an unenforceable contract. They made their decision so I don’t understand why you want a contract? You know they would have to agree to it and sign it right? What makes you think they would do that? You need to focus on a long term plan for your mother that doesn’t involve playing musical houses!! You cannot just move a demented person every few months, it is a huge disruption that will likely result in behavioral problems. If you are unable to care for her in your home full time, then It’s time to explore long term care or using her assets to pay for round the clock care in her own home. Neither you or your siblings are responsible for paying for your mother’s care either, she should be using her own assets.
I can't help but step in and offer an opinion on people creating their own contracts, even using a template. If you're not in the legal profession, or care profession or other that can afford to and will hire attorneys, you're going out on a limb with thinking that you can create your own contracts.
Different states have different requirements, laws, and statutory interpretations. W/o experience in law, you could easily add something to the contract that nullifies it to the point of being useless. Adding that if you don't know how to interpret case law, you're at another disadvantage.
If it's important enough, set aside funds for an attorney. If you don't, and create your own contract, or download one, don't expect it to always meet your needs, or worse, not be compliant with current law.
Good luck with that..My brother talked a good game but I still did most of the work. Some siblings just do not have it in them to care give..It might be better to get counseling to wrap your head around the fact that mom is your job...My mom always said “Life is not fair....adjust”...so I did.. sorry!
Exactly. Some siblings willingly help. Some, you have to plead with them, only for them to come up with zillions of excuses. You’ll get some siblings that promise to help you, but find that it’s too inconvenient to their lifestyle. Basically, don’t count on them. Just plan that they won’t be there for you or their mom. Do what you can and adjust.
You can find a template, get everyone to sign, and get it notarized but there is no guarantee any of that playing musical houses will ever happen. Nor is there anything to put a bite in it. When it's another's turn and they say no - well, there you are. Mom still sitting in your living room w/her bags packed and no where to go.
Do siblings have money? See if they are more willing to pay for her care under your roof than they are to move mom to their own house. There are those who will pay good money to keep a problem off their own front porch.
You, my2cents, put it much nicer than I was going to say. I worked for decades doing contracts. People can sign but that doesn't mean they will honor the contract, which leaves the other party thinking about suing at worst - not a fun or inexpensive thing to do. I hope everything works out for you, Caresplitin. We're just saying as the arguing and sandbagging might be a red flag.
Bit pointless, I'm afraid. For this to be worthwhile, you would have to have a means of enforcing the "contract"; and a means which would not cause even more stress and uncertainty regarding your mother's care.
Moreover, you really don't, do you now, want your mother living at your sister's house if the only reason your sister agrees to it is that otherwise you'd sue her for breach of contract. This is not a good basis for ensuring quality of care or quality of life for your mother.
Wouldn't it be better for you and your sister both to be looking for alternatives?
When it got to the point where my mom could not live on her own anymore, my sister and I met with a great eldercare attorney. In addition to her explaining Medicaid lookback, trusts, etc., she said to us both, let me go off the clock now, and tell you a few things.
1. Within 5 years, your mom will be either in worse shape, or will be dead. You two may be in worse shape. Don't say you will never put your mom in an institution. Be prepared for that day.
2. Moving your mom is very difficult, if she is living with you, that one will be doing MUCH more work, even if the other does all financial, etc. She can not be moved back and forth. You can get a caregiver to help, but mom's income will only pay for one shift, 5 days. No matter how much the other siblings say they will visit, it will be less frequent. They will get sick, etc. If you two have a "tit for tat" relationship, it will not work.
How old is Mom? Is she living with you? How far away are siblings.
Do you and siblings work. Do you all have families and spouses? Is Mom easy to get along with?
Just my opinion here. Medicare goes from State to state but secondary insurance is usually just for the State its written in. Except for Medigap which does not include a prescription plan. Who is her POA? There needs to be one to make decisions for Mom when she can't. If siblings live further away, then she needs doctors set up at each residence. And those people need to be able to talk to the doctors. And, does Mom want to be shifted around every 6 months? In theory, sounds feasible but in reality?
As said, you cannot make a child care for a parent. My brothers rarely saw or called my Mom even before she came to live with me. I never understood why and I didn't question it. I figured they were big boys. She had been a good Mom. It broke my Dad's heart but he never said anything, which was surprising.
You may want to look at this a different way or your going to become very resentful. Except that you are the only one who is going to step up to the plate. Find resources for Mom thru your Office of Aging. Do you think she would enjoy a Daycare? It would give her some Socialization. If her income is low, she may qualify for Medicaid in home services and Daycare. Also realize (and Mom too) that you cannot be her entertainment. See if your local Senior Center has activities. Some Churches cater to the elderly. We had a visitation group. We each picked an shut in and visited. Sent cards for birthdays and holidays. Took them little gifts.
All you can do is tell your siblings that Mom would love to hear from them more often. Maybe each take a day a week to call her. To recognize her birthday, Mothers Day and holidays. Maybe, invite her to visit giving you some respite. Its rare that children share in the care of their parents. It always seems like its one that takes on the responsibility. If Mom is living with you, you may want to have a contract written up that she pay you rent. Definitely make sure any money she has is used for her. Her prescriptions, clothing, copays and deductables. Her toiletries, ect. Her health insurance. Her bills. My Mom still had her house. So her SS mainly went to keep it up. Her small pension went towards what I listed. My brothers never questioned what I did. But I kept records just the same. All her bills were paid out of her bank account.
Where is your mother now? Has she already moved in with you? Are you willing to have mother live with you even after six months, if something happens and she doesn't end up going to your siblings? Because that is what is most likely going to happen. We read here about these sibling agreements that don't end up being implemented. Lots of broken promises, because in effect that's all that they are,
Tell us more about your situation. What is your mother's condition now? Who is taking care of her? Is she still in her own home? If you work, who would watch her during the day?
This honestly needs a licensed social worker counselor who helps families with life passages. They replace the psychologist best at times like this. Honestly, this is a "negotiation". There are, first of all, due to your own lives and lifestyles, things that one of you is GOOD at and the other perhaps not. That one of you cannot possibly fit into a schedule and the other can. Start with a list of all the things that must be done. There are financial concerns that must be addressed daily, that cannot go the way of "my six months I write the checks". I would work this out with a disinterested party, the two of you being as cooperative as you are able. Wishing you lots of luck. I had a sibling when my parents were aging and he and I were joined at the hip in trying to do what was best, in supporting one another. In the end I ended somewhat in the care of my older sibling. And even THAT worked. So there is a relationship we have with our sibling that often carries through into all this. I wish you luck.
This is great advice and I agree that there are so many instances in which a social worker could help overcome obstacles and introduce some energy and options into situations that are "stuck." Unfortunately many people (including some in my family and likely that of the OP!) are unwilling to engage in this kind of thing. Many in the older generations can barely admit to any problems, let alone talk about them, let alone with a "stranger!" But it is worth it to try to find a third party who can diffuse tension and maybe make some constructive progress. Good luck!
This is a touchy situation. In my family, my grandmother (Dad’s mom) was basically homeless. She had three sons and a daughter and all except the oldest son pitched in, if even for only a night or two. My uncle took his mother in when she had cancer and his wife, my aunt, cared for her 24/7 until she passed. But not every family is like that. Having a statement signed and notarized isn’t worth much if a sibling refuses to take Mom in when it’s their turn. What will you do, pack a bag and dump Mom on their front steps? You could always have something drawn up by an attorney, but the results could be the same. You can’t force them to hold up their end of the “bargain”.
Why not meet with them and calmly broach the subject of a facility for her? No funds? File for Medicaid. Promises made to “never put mom in a nursing home”? When there is discord in the family, all bets are off.
Again, a piece of paper, even notarized will not force someone who doesn’t want to take Mom in to do so. If they were willing, you wouldn’t need a paper to detail the when and how.
Thanks for your reply Thankfully Mom is not sick enough for a nursing home and we can’t afford assisting living A few thousand per month social worker said she would not get in anyway condition APHIB and PMR and severe loneliness Does not want to be alone anymore Uses a walker we have pt and caregiver now several times a week for a few hours a day
Caresplitin2020, I hope others have advice to share about templates they might have used to specify care among siblings and how it worked.
However, I'm afraid I'm not sure how any sort of document like this, even if you could get your siblings to sign it in front of a notary, would be enforced. It's not illegal not to take a parent into your home, even after promising you would. Law enforcement wouldn't be able to help you and I don't see how a lawyer would assist with a lawsuit.
Unfortunately, I just don't see what good it would do for the sibling who is now carrying the entire burden. Time to go in a different direction, I would think.
What’s your mom’s take on this?
Does she want “peace” and is blaming you for causing trouble? This is how my parents would see it. They would let the other sibling do what they wanted & pressure me to carry the entire burden.
Sorry this is happening.
Some questions came up that made me think... What if I was a boy? What if I lived miles away? Would it still be assumed I could help? We joked about if I was a long haul truck driver in a mining town.
What if your sister was a long haul truck driver?
Or you had mine: 'Sister who brings cake'. She brings the decorations & makes a happy event. No hands-on.
What would you do instead?
Different states have different requirements, laws, and statutory interpretations. W/o experience in law, you could easily add something to the contract that nullifies it to the point of being useless. Adding that if you don't know how to interpret case law, you're at another disadvantage.
If it's important enough, set aside funds for an attorney. If you don't, and create your own contract, or download one, don't expect it to always meet your needs, or worse, not be compliant with current law.
Then draw up your own contract.
Okay, perhaps an attorney after months of counseling.
Do siblings have money? See if they are more willing to pay for her care under your roof than they are to move mom to their own house. There are those who will pay good money to keep a problem off their own front porch.
Moreover, you really don't, do you now, want your mother living at your sister's house if the only reason your sister agrees to it is that otherwise you'd sue her for breach of contract. This is not a good basis for ensuring quality of care or quality of life for your mother.
Wouldn't it be better for you and your sister both to be looking for alternatives?
1. Within 5 years, your mom will be either in worse shape, or will be dead. You two may be in worse shape. Don't say you will never put your mom in an institution. Be prepared for that day.
2. Moving your mom is very difficult, if she is living with you, that one will be doing MUCH more work, even if the other does all financial, etc. She can not be moved back and forth. You can get a caregiver to help, but mom's income will only pay for one shift, 5 days. No matter how much the other siblings say they will visit, it will be less frequent. They will get sick, etc. If you two have a "tit for tat" relationship, it will not work.
Do you and siblings work. Do you all have families and spouses? Is Mom easy to get along with?
Just my opinion here. Medicare goes from State to state but secondary insurance is usually just for the State its written in. Except for Medigap which does not include a prescription plan. Who is her POA? There needs to be one to make decisions for Mom when she can't. If siblings live further away, then she needs doctors set up at each residence. And those people need to be able to talk to the doctors. And, does Mom want to be shifted around every 6 months? In theory, sounds feasible but in reality?
As said, you cannot make a child care for a parent. My brothers rarely saw or called my Mom even before she came to live with me. I never understood why and I didn't question it. I figured they were big boys. She had been a good Mom. It broke my Dad's heart but he never said anything, which was surprising.
You may want to look at this a different way or your going to become very resentful. Except that you are the only one who is going to step up to the plate. Find resources for Mom thru your Office of Aging. Do you think she would enjoy a Daycare? It would give her some Socialization. If her income is low, she may qualify for Medicaid in home services and Daycare. Also realize (and Mom too) that you cannot be her entertainment. See if your local Senior Center has activities. Some Churches cater to the elderly. We had a visitation group. We each picked an shut in and visited. Sent cards for birthdays and holidays. Took them little gifts.
All you can do is tell your siblings that Mom would love to hear from them more often. Maybe each take a day a week to call her. To recognize her birthday, Mothers Day and holidays. Maybe, invite her to visit giving you some respite. Its rare that children share in the care of their parents. It always seems like its one that takes on the responsibility. If Mom is living with you, you may want to have a contract written up that she pay you rent. Definitely make sure any money she has is used for her. Her prescriptions, clothing, copays and deductables. Her toiletries, ect. Her health insurance. Her bills. My Mom still had her house. So her SS mainly went to keep it up. Her small pension went towards what I listed. My brothers never questioned what I did. But I kept records just the same. All her bills were paid out of her bank account.
Has this plan already started?
Tell us more about your situation. What is your mother's condition now? Who is taking care of her? Is she still in her own home? If you work, who would watch her during the day?
Nor is it yours.
Start with a list of all the things that must be done.
There are financial concerns that must be addressed daily, that cannot go the way of "my six months I write the checks".
I would work this out with a disinterested party, the two of you being as cooperative as you are able. Wishing you lots of luck. I had a sibling when my parents were aging and he and I were joined at the hip in trying to do what was best, in supporting one another. In the end I ended somewhat in the care of my older sibling. And even THAT worked. So there is a relationship we have with our sibling that often carries through into all this. I wish you luck.
Why not meet with them and calmly broach the subject of a facility for her? No funds? File for Medicaid. Promises made to “never put mom in a nursing home”? When there is discord in the family, all bets are off.
Again, a piece of paper, even notarized will not force someone who doesn’t want to take Mom in to do so. If they were willing, you wouldn’t need a paper to detail the when and how.
condition APHIB and PMR and severe loneliness Does not want to be alone anymore Uses a walker we have pt and caregiver now several times a week for a few hours a day
However, I'm afraid I'm not sure how any sort of document like this, even if you could get your siblings to sign it in front of a notary, would be enforced. It's not illegal not to take a parent into your home, even after promising you would. Law enforcement wouldn't be able to help you and I don't see how a lawyer would assist with a lawsuit.
Unfortunately, I just don't see what good it would do for the sibling who is now carrying the entire burden. Time to go in a different direction, I would think.
Best wishes to you!