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What agency? How a "crime"? Who is the debtor? Why did the elder person in question agree to loan the recipient this money? How much money, in total? Have repayments to date been honoured? If so, has there been a change of circumstances?
Father (73 next month) loaned son (40 yrs old 2 months ago) $60,000 4 yrs ago to help him pay off the higher interest student loan debt under terms dictated by son, namely only 8 annual payments of $8,900. (I had him sign a notarized loan agreement). The interest rate was set at the 10 yr T bill rate of 3.2%. Payments have been random, but including interest he's about $10,000 in arrears. When pressed for repayment, he's very non-committal.
So, essentially, the son is late with one payment. How late?
Are you the father? If you are, it's up to you. You can take your son to court. But unless you're confident that he's got the money, what's the point? It depends on whether you're interested in the cash or the principle of the thing, I suppose.
And if you're not the father but a sibling, be sure that in attempting to protect your father's financial interests you're not merely making him miserable.
Unless there's a Medicaid application ahead...
I'm sorry for the situation. Money and family can make a very unhappy, stressful combination. I hope you're able to resolve it with no harm done.
Yes, I'm the father. You're correct about the status of the loan & perhaps I was getting ahead of myself. He's been making sporadic payments, but never one in the amount of the next annual payment ($8,900). If he makes that payment on January 14th, he would only be about $1,500 in the hole. But, I don't have a good feeling about him making a payment anywhere close to the $8,900. And, that's my concern. No Medicaid application in my future. Perhaps for my wife, but all of our assets are held in a Trust & I'm the sole trustee. Thanks for your responses.
BigJim, lending money to family sure is fraught with issues, isnt it?!
When you say has " noncommital", what does that mean? That he doesn't seem to be taking this seriously? Does he work? Have you had a serious, not warm and fuzzy talk with him? Do you have a lawyer who can send a letter to nudge him?
By the way, this isn't a crime against the elderly. This loan was made in good faith with a child. Maybe son is not able to make this balloon payment. Ask to have a sit down. Agreement may need to be adjusted.
It is a loan made in good faith, and with interest rates set at a fair market average. Fair at the time, anyway.
3.2% now, though... base rates having done what they've done and all that...
A generous father might like to see if he felt like giving his son a bit of wiggle room on the interest. Or not. As you please.
For your own and your wife's sake, aside from any connected issues and worries that I expect make the whole thing emotionally much more complicated, I'd be tempted to regard any repayments as a bonus and try not to *expect* them, as such. Otherwise the money becomes a token for more important issues which are perhaps the ones you and your son ought in truth to be talking about?
Countrymouse, you'd make an excellent shrink! Yes, I'm generous to a fault. In the past year, he got married, bought a second half million dollar house (rents out the first), bought a 2nd, car, a lab puppy, lots of furniture & a 2nd big screen TV. And, his new bride is a FT nursing student. All of these expenditures make me feel like I'm being disrespected. Now, you have almost the entire picture. If he wasn't so damn smug & unappreciative about it, I'd probably just write it off. But, we have 2 other children who treat me with a lot more respect. Thanks again.
Think about changing the terms of your estate plan so as to take your generosity into account, i.e., reduce what he would inherit by the amount of the loan. Is that possible?
Personally, I would adjust his part of your estate accordingly in your will. Just keep it up to date, so that if he pays, it's reflected in his part of the estate, assuming there will be an estate.
I borrowed money from my folks for a downpayment on a house 40 years ago and when I wasn't making payments on time, I got a letter from my mom chastizing me. I felt awful and I got right on it. Paid it off super fast after that. So your son isn't being respectful of you or your wife and your generosity.
I certainly wouldn't make any more loans to him. Maybe he'd do better with monthly repayment schedule instead of the annual balloon payment? Maybe that seems too large? That's another option I'd suggest.
Well. If the rental amounts to upwards of $8,900 net of tax per annum - which unless it is a very small house in a very unfashionable area it surely must? - Bob's your uncle. He can divert it to you.
Now that we see more of the picture I wouldn't say your son is being disrespectful. I would say he is taking the piss.
The only remaining question is, have you told him what you've told us about how you feel? Or are you maintaining a dignified but hurt silence?
He needs to be reminded that he himself proposed a formal arrangement and set the terms. If he is in fact operating on the assumption that you wouldn't seriously hold him to it, he needs to explain the basis of that (incorrect) assumption, and revise it.
You could allow him to renegotiate the terms to more practical ones if he has already overcommitted himself financially for the time being. But you are completely right to believe that, if only for the sake of his own self-respect, he must be required to remember his obligations.
Yes, in fact, that's what I told him in an email last week. Perhaps I was too harsh because I told him if that's what he wanted (not to reimburse me for the rest of the note, $44K, I'd let him have it, but that would be all that he'd get. He's a very stubborn, proud, obstinate, young man. I challenged him in a subsequent email to tell me about the parents of any of his friends who loaned their child that much money with similar conditions, and .... here's the part that upsets me the most, I don't recall him EVER expressing any gratitude for what I did to lighten his student loan burden. I told him that the loan changed our relationship from father/son to lender/debtor & that it was his fault that things have deteriorated. No response to either email. Time will tell....
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
How a "crime"?
Who is the debtor?
Why did the elder person in question agree to loan the recipient this money? How much money, in total?
Have repayments to date been honoured? If so, has there been a change of circumstances?
Are you the father? If you are, it's up to you. You can take your son to court. But unless you're confident that he's got the money, what's the point? It depends on whether you're interested in the cash or the principle of the thing, I suppose.
And if you're not the father but a sibling, be sure that in attempting to protect your father's financial interests you're not merely making him miserable.
Unless there's a Medicaid application ahead...
I'm sorry for the situation. Money and family can make a very unhappy, stressful combination. I hope you're able to resolve it with no harm done.
No Medicaid application in my future. Perhaps for my wife, but all of our assets are held in a Trust & I'm the sole trustee.
Thanks for your responses.
When you say has " noncommital", what does that mean? That he doesn't seem to be taking this seriously? Does he work? Have you had a serious, not warm and fuzzy talk with him? Do you have a lawyer who can send a letter to nudge him?
3.2% now, though... base rates having done what they've done and all that...
A generous father might like to see if he felt like giving his son a bit of wiggle room on the interest. Or not. As you please.
For your own and your wife's sake, aside from any connected issues and worries that I expect make the whole thing emotionally much more complicated, I'd be tempted to regard any repayments as a bonus and try not to *expect* them, as such. Otherwise the money becomes a token for more important issues which are perhaps the ones you and your son ought in truth to be talking about?
If he wasn't so damn smug & unappreciative about it, I'd probably just write it off. But, we have 2 other children who treat me with a lot more respect.
Thanks again.
Think about changing the terms of your estate plan so as to take your generosity into account, i.e., reduce what he would inherit by the amount of the loan. Is that possible?
I borrowed money from my folks for a downpayment on a house 40 years ago and when I wasn't making payments on time, I got a letter from my mom chastizing me. I felt awful and I got right on it. Paid it off super fast after that. So your son isn't being respectful of you or your wife and your generosity.
I certainly wouldn't make any more loans to him. Maybe he'd do better with monthly repayment schedule instead of the annual balloon payment? Maybe that seems too large? That's another option I'd suggest.
Does he, by George.
Well. If the rental amounts to upwards of $8,900 net of tax per annum - which unless it is a very small house in a very unfashionable area it surely must? - Bob's your uncle. He can divert it to you.
Now that we see more of the picture I wouldn't say your son is being disrespectful. I would say he is taking the piss.
The only remaining question is, have you told him what you've told us about how you feel? Or are you maintaining a dignified but hurt silence?
He needs to be reminded that he himself proposed a formal arrangement and set the terms. If he is in fact operating on the assumption that you wouldn't seriously hold him to it, he needs to explain the basis of that (incorrect) assumption, and revise it.
You could allow him to renegotiate the terms to more practical ones if he has already overcommitted himself financially for the time being. But you are completely right to believe that, if only for the sake of his own self-respect, he must be required to remember his obligations.
He's a very stubborn, proud, obstinate, young man. I challenged him in a subsequent email to tell me about the parents of any of his friends who loaned their child that much money with similar conditions, and .... here's the part that upsets me the most, I don't recall him EVER expressing any gratitude for what I did to lighten his student loan burden. I told him that the loan changed our relationship from father/son to lender/debtor & that it was his fault that things have deteriorated. No response to either email. Time will tell....
He sounds like he lives WAY beyond his means, just obtw. Is this a lifelong pattern?