Wife has 2 children (independently wealthy) and 5 grandchildren (all professional with good income). All have turned their backs on us. We are slowly dying without support. Do we have any recourse here?
The short answer is that you can’t force anyone to do anything.
Tell your doctors your situation and concerns. See what they suggest. Ask them to connect you to a social worker. The social worker will give you contact numbers for people who will be able to help.
Recourse? No. There is no legal obligation for adult children to financially support their parents. Same with grandkids and grandparents.
If both of your wife’s children and the adult grandchildren have cut ties with her, there has to be a reason. Usually the one who is cut off seems to never know why. Not saying it’s all due to your wife, but something has happened along the way for it to be like this.
Your profile says that "time is running out" for the both of you. I urge you to find a geriatric social worker to help you. Your local hospital may have one on staff. If not, your public hospital will have one on staff.
I also urge you to consider placing your wife into respite care. That will give you some time to work with your area agencies and figure out how to best move forward. I would put your energy toward getting actual help.
Contrary to what every other posters has said, maybe. It depends which state you are in. You want to look into the filial laws. Filial laws require family members to care for other family members. Including children caring for their parents. While these laws were once common, most states got rid of them when social welfare systems like Social Security and Medicare came into existence. A handful of states still have filial laws but they are rarely enforced. You should consult a competent lawyer.
As always, I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm buzzing from a super huge coffee with way too much sugar. So any resemblance to what I'm typing and words is purely a coincidence and in no way is advice. Please consult a competent lawyer.
Filial laws do not require anyone to take care of anyone else. Filial laws are about financial obligations. The OP is in Florida which has no filial laws. Even if there was filial law in his state, the family would NOT be forced to take care of them. Filial laws are very rarely enforced in the states that have them.
Hello erwash - first of all, I am so sorry that your wife has dementia, now at the late stage. It must be so difficult taking care of her by yourself without help. I don't know how you do it. You must have a lot of patience and love for her to be able to endure the caregiving job for four grueling years and counting, and without help. My hats off to you.
I am also so sorry that your wife's children and grandchildren are not helping her. There must be reasons for that but that doesn't matter at this point. If they don't want to help, even if there are some laws that force them to, I don't know if it's worth the fight and the time to go after them.
Here are some places you should call: --your local Aging Agency, sometimes called Office on Aging --Adult Protective Services --local hospital and ask for a social worker --local Alzheimer's/dementia support group --local Adult Daycare center and ask to talk to a social worker if they have one --an attorney specializes in elder law who can help you apply for Medicaid --Veteran Affairs (if you or your wife had been in the service)
When you call these places, explain your situation and ask them for help or referral to resources that you can apply to help you and your wife.
Have done all of the above, mostly to no avail. I can comment on each one, but will just generally qualify them all as severely lacking in experience, competence and general caring.
No lawyer is going to go after a person who doesn't want to take care of their parents. There's no money in taking such a case when the person suing has standing but no money to pay the lawyer.
Even if poster's state did have filial responsibility laws - and Florida does not - in the modern era they are used to enforce child support, not parent support. That may change as more people, who were financially irresponsible, grow old and need social safety net benefits. And I suspect that nursing homes are the ones who are going to bring the lawsuits so beware!
But...and it's a big one...the courts will consider the adult-child’s income, the adult-child's own responsibilities to their own family, and the adult-child's family’s overall financial situation. No judge is going to force an adult-child to support his/her parent(s) if doing so will render them nearly destitute as well.
When did the disconnect occur, and do you know why? Do you have any children who can help out, or are you hoping the wealthy ones on her side will do it all? Maybe between your children if you have any, and hers,, if both are seeing they are being asked equally it may help? And how long have you been married? Did the children feel you were "dad"?
Disconnect began years ago with our marriage, 2nd for both, now 16 years. Same problem with children on my side, We are both in our 80's, so "dad" or "mom" not a real problem.
The OP is in Florida which does not have Filial laws. The wife’s children cannot be forced to help out. Filial laws are about financial responsibility anyway. To the OP, I must ask.....what kind of support do you want from them and did you consider that they may not be able to support you? Do they even live nearby? They are professionals so they jobs. They have spouses and children. It is not that easy to take on an aging parent.
I thought I made it clear that they are all independently wealthy. Her daughter does not work, her son is an entrepreneur, her children have endowments. While they do not live close, their ability to assist financially is limitless.
I'm so sorry you are feeling abandoned by your family and while I might not think twice about supporting my parents financially if I were able I don't think how much income they have makes any difference legally. I would stop wasting energy on trying to get support from her children and grandchildren and focus on getting the support that is available in your area to seniors who don't have family means or help. We, I do all of that administrative stuff and research for my mom but there are people provided by the state who will do this for you too. I would be more concerned about none of her decedents having contact with her, visiting, calling those are the really sad things she's missing, whatever the reason.
Very sad you hate your parents so much. My wife raised her children and then the 5 grandchildren, spending the majority of her time and money in that regard. Why now would they not want to repay the debt. 25 years long ago vs a few years now? And the community based resources here now for us are non-existent.
He’s in Florida which has excellent resources. I am quite shocked at his claims. I think Nydaughter hit the nail on the head-he’s difficult to work with and therein lies the problem.
My husband’s best friends parents are, I guess you could say “snow birds”. They don’t spend winters in FL and summers in CA, they spend 2 months here and then 2 in Florida and so on. And according to them, they get MUCH BETTER care in FL. The husband suffered a TIA shortly after arriving in FL last November and said his experience was like night and day. Had it occurred here in Cali, it would have taken weeks to get testing done and see see specialists. In FL it took a matter of days.
Hi Erwash, you are getting some comments here that you probably don’t like. However you say that you “Gave up on regular doctor, then gerontologist, then elder care specialist, then az/dementia specialist. None of them knows what they are doing”. You also say that all the local agencies are “severely lacking in experience, competence and general caring”. It sounds as though you don’t like a lot of things that most people find helpful. Perhaps your children and grandchildren find you difficult to deal with?
It might be best if you ask for financial help rather than close contact. However as everyone in the family seems to have good jobs, income and assets, you might need to put together the sort of financial information that a bank or loan company would want, to explain what you need and why.
It isn’t easy getting old, or dealing with people who are getting old. I hope that you and your wife can find some happiness.
Poster does seem very difficult to deal with. Who knows the history between them and their children. There's always two sides to every story, and perception is not reality. Poster asked how he could "force" them to help. Perhaps therein lies the problem with their children.
Hi there Erwash Here is the website for the Florida Area Agency on Aging. Ask them to come to your home and do an assessment for your wife. Give them the names and addresses and phone numbers of your wife’s children. How long has it been since she has seen any of them? Doctors don’t have a cure for Alz but they can sometimes help with the symptoms. Maybe you could give them a second chance? http://elderaffairs.state.fl.us/doea/arc.php
erwash - you sound hopeless and bitter. I don't know why you say those resources we mentioned here (Aging Agency, social worker, etc.) are not helpful. I am sure in Florida, there are thousands of elderly who need help just like you, and I bet somehow they manage to find the right help.
You mentioned your wife have Medicaid. Since your wife is at stage 4 of dementia, ask her doctor if she is qualified to be in a nursing home. If so, the doctor can order that. Then, she can be looked after 24/7, and you can visit daily to make sure she's being well taken care of.
Also, have to talked to an elder law attorney? This is for the purpose of getting the type of Medicaid that will pay for nursing home.
If where you live is so isolated and no competent help and services available, then you should consider relocating to where there are better services.
Parents make a choice to have children and make a choice of what level of involvement they want with grandchildren. They aren’t “forced” to do these things. These choices also do not create a “debt” to be repaid when they are older. Caring for elderly parents or supporting them financially is a choice for adult children or grandchildren to make.
You say you can’t afford respite care and your wife is on Medicaid. Good news-Florida Medicaid pays for respite care. You should contact Medicaid and arrange for respite care.
ER, you sound angry and either nobody knows anything or they are not available or there are no services or the kids don't care. Maybe you need to listen to some of the resources and what they have to say. Do the kids also feel they don't know anything?
Maybe counseling would help you, but you would have to LISTEN to what they have to say.
You can't force your children or grandchildren to help you. When family becomes estranged it can be very painful for everyone involved. All you can do is keep loving them and hope that they will come to return that love. In the mean time, you have to use what you have to help yourself. I see some great suggestions in the comments here for agencies to contact. What exactly do you want help with? I see in the comments you aren't finding what you want. What do you want?
I am not sure the OP is being difficult on purpose. When it comes to requesting and applying for help, all these government and bureaucracy red tapes are very confusing for most people, so for the OP being in his 80s, it's understandably easy to get confused and frustrated. He probably just throws up his hands and gives up when things get too confusing.
He and his wife need someone they can trust to guide them. I don't know who that could be at this point. Seems like his children as well as hers don't have a relationship with either of them. No mention of any one appointed as their Power of Attorney.
Some people are just naturally difficult, Polar. And age does not mellow them out.
Poster's situation sounds like a classic case of fail to plan, plan to fail. Poster and his wife have been on Medicare for 15+ years by this point. How many years ago was the dementia diagnosis? Sounds like poster was not proactive about planning for their future. Now he wants to "force" people to do for him what he was unwilling to do for himself.
There are social workers all across Florida including at Federally Qualified Health Centers. Some will even travel to rural areas. There are programs for old people and poor people in virtually every community across our great country. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Seems like you have named the reason why nobody wants to help... You stated that your wife raised the children and grandkids, and now nobody wants to “repay the debt”. Wow. This says a lot about what life was like for them, and you. If you live in an area where there is no “competent” help, then its’ on you to make changes to go where there is help. The family is under no obligation to become slaves to you now because you refuse to change or accept the help that is available. I don’t mean this to be harsh, but you need to wake up here. I do wish you the best...
I was thinking the same. Since when is it debt to owe. As parents, we choose the responsibility of properly raising our children. Why in God’s name, would they OWE us anything? I would hope I NEVER feel like my children owe me. Pay back? It’s all so nasty!
So I am going to make an assumption and make loads of people mad.
From er responses, he is the only one in the room that knows anything, he also stated that his wife's children have endowments, so that means their dad had money, financially set his children up for future and that means that he left his wife financially secure. If she has alienated her children by marrying the poster, it means they thought he was after her money. I say that because that is what he is now trying to do with them. You have it stepchildren and now I am entitled to force you to fork over anything I say we need, because no one, not even doctors know as much as me. So pay up and avoid a lawsuit, if I can figure out how to sue you. Mom is on Medicaid and poster obviously doesn't get a good pension or ss for that matter. Mom probably was a stay at home mom and 1st husband left her secure enough to not worry that she would run out of money, never considering that she would remarry and forfeit his ss benefits she received. Then enter husband #2 who blew through all of her financial future because, hey her kids have money and we will force them to pay up when she is broke. He just didn't bargain for healthy children that can set and enforce boundaries, but he won't know about those things.
Sounds like the wife isn't the only one with loss of executive function. When anyone believes that they are the only ones that know anything you are dealing with dementia and/or NPD. Terrible situation for the poor woman that can no longer make her own choices.
Somewhere in all of this, his children feel the same way. It is a second marriage for both. Appears not a lot of financial planning on their part, just sue kids and grandchildren and force them to pay.
States with filial responsibility laws. Alaska, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada (Nevada law only addresses support of children and not support of parents.
And as by "help" the OP means "pay," then unfortunately the short answer to the question is "you can't."
Would I be unkind or unfair to guess that you wish to keep your wife with you in your home and commission care and nursing services to support you as her primary caregiver?
And does this mean that you find it difficult to discuss what would, unfortunately, be a very expensive care plan with people who are keen to recommend alternative care plans?
Erwash, I’m so sorry you’re in this tough position. You obviously love your wife very much and want to do the best for her. How your relationship with the kids deteriorated, really doesn’t matter right now...the question is what can you do to convince (can’t force) them to help. You don’t say specifically what you want them to “help” with financially. They sound like accomplishd professionals, so I would suggest approaching this in a manner they may relate to. They may respond more to specifics than a general plead for help. Have you clarified for yourself what you need help with financially? Someone to sit with your wife while you run errands or to drive and accompany you to appointments? Someone to clean the house or mow the lawn? Help with groceries or medicine? Help paying the taxes so you can keep the house? Help with a maintenance issue? After you pinpoint what you need and how much it might cost one time or on an ongoing basis, I would suggest to write to each of them and tell them something specific. Maybe you could have a friend help you with the research of the cost of what you need? Dear Dick and Jane, I hope this letter finds you and the grandkids well. As you know Mom isn’t doing well and we are quickly depleating our resources with her care. We have applied and are receiving government assistance but our small pension of $_______ /month still leaves us really strapped and unable to __________. (Fill in the blank) It would be such help if you could assist us with _________. Love Mom and Pops.
They could throw it in the circular file, or respond. You never know but it might be an alternative approach to what you’ve tried.
You dont say say what the agencies you’ve contacted aren’t helping with...and of course they can’t help get money out of the kids. But I really want to implore you to heed the advice of medical professionals for her care. And for YOUR care too. Please talk to YOUR doctor about the situation and how YOU are. It must be very exhausting to try to navigate the “system”. And you probably have to schlep your wife to all the appointments, since you probably can’t leave her unattended. Makes me tired just thinking about it. Remember if you go down, she will have no one. My dear 90 year old friend who was taking care of his wife (similar kid situation as yours) ran himself ragged and passed away. Now she’s thriving in a nursing home. Take care.
Pennsylvania has filial responsibility laws. And, they are one of the few that actually try to enforce. It usually comes into play as part of the Medicaid application process.
but again like every other state with filial laws there are exceptions and exemptions. The law doesn’t apply to all children. filial law kicks when Medicaid is denied, delayed or incomplete. it does not apply if the parent abandoned the child for 10 years or longer. It does not apply if the child cannot afford to support their parent.
it is highly highly unlikely anyone here will ever be a victim if filial law.
It sounds like you are purposely making life more difficult than it needs to be. You've shot down every attempt by anyone who tries to give you advice. I refuse to believe that there are no competent or caring doctors in your area. You live in the old people capital of the world! I'm beginning to understand why neither your kids or her kids will help you. You're say you're running out of time. Then you should be a lot more agreeable to people trying to help. I'm just going to throw this out there....if you're trying to scam someone online to send you money it's hopefully not going to work. The reason I brought this up is it's the only thing left that someone hasn't suggested. If I've offended you then good! Now you now that if you can piss people off in one day on a website God only knows what you put those kids through in 16 years.
Sparky sounds like the poster boy or girl for this website. If you think this is a scam then you must be a Twitter advocate. And please do not think you are qualified to comment on what God knows.
Have you contacted your local Area Agency on Aging?
Tell your doctors your situation and concerns. See what they suggest. Ask them to connect you to a social worker. The social worker will give you contact numbers for people who will be able to help.
If both of your wife’s children and the adult grandchildren have cut ties with her, there has to be a reason. Usually the one who is cut off seems to never know why. Not saying it’s all due to your wife, but something has happened along the way for it to be like this.
Your profile says that "time is running out" for the both of you. I urge you to find a geriatric social worker to help you. Your local hospital may have one on staff. If not, your public hospital will have one on staff.
I also urge you to consider placing your wife into respite care. That will give you some time to work with your area agencies and figure out how to best move forward. I would put your energy toward getting actual help.
As always, I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm buzzing from a super huge coffee with way too much sugar. So any resemblance to what I'm typing and words is purely a coincidence and in no way is advice. Please consult a competent lawyer.
I am also so sorry that your wife's children and grandchildren are not helping her. There must be reasons for that but that doesn't matter at this point. If they don't want to help, even if there are some laws that force them to, I don't know if it's worth the fight and the time to go after them.
Here are some places you should call:
--your local Aging Agency, sometimes called Office on Aging
--Adult Protective Services
--local hospital and ask for a social worker
--local Alzheimer's/dementia support group
--local Adult Daycare center and ask to talk to a social worker if they have one
--an attorney specializes in elder law who can help you apply for Medicaid
--Veteran Affairs (if you or your wife had been in the service)
When you call these places, explain your situation and ask them for help or referral to resources that you can apply to help you and your wife.
Do come back and let us know what you find out.
Even if poster's state did have filial responsibility laws - and Florida does not - in the modern era they are used to enforce child support, not parent support. That may change as more people, who were financially irresponsible, grow old and need social safety net benefits. And I suspect that nursing homes are the ones who are going to bring the lawsuits so beware!
But...and it's a big one...the courts will consider the adult-child’s income, the adult-child's own responsibilities to their own family, and the adult-child's family’s overall financial situation. No judge is going to force an adult-child to support his/her parent(s) if doing so will render them nearly destitute as well.
It is not the responsibility of your wife’s children and grandchildren to look after you.
There are are community based resources that you can contact to request help.
Are you in the U.S.?
My husband’s best friends parents are, I guess you could say “snow birds”. They don’t spend winters in FL and summers in CA, they spend 2 months here and then 2 in Florida and so on. And according to them, they get MUCH BETTER care in FL. The husband suffered a TIA shortly after arriving in FL last November and said his experience was like night and day. Had it occurred here in Cali, it would have taken weeks to get testing done and see see specialists. In FL it took a matter of days.
It might be best if you ask for financial help rather than close contact. However as everyone in the family seems to have good jobs, income and assets, you might need to put together the sort of financial information that a bank or loan company would want, to explain what you need and why.
It isn’t easy getting old, or dealing with people who are getting old. I hope that you and your wife can find some happiness.
That simply can't be true. What county do you live in?
Here is the website for the Florida Area Agency on Aging.
Ask them to come to your home and do an assessment for your wife.
Give them the names and addresses and phone numbers of your wife’s children. How long has it been since she has seen any of them?
Doctors don’t have a cure for Alz but they can sometimes help with the symptoms. Maybe you could give them a second chance?
http://elderaffairs.state.fl.us/doea/arc.php
You mentioned your wife have Medicaid. Since your wife is at stage 4 of dementia, ask her doctor if she is qualified to be in a nursing home. If so, the doctor can order that. Then, she can be looked after 24/7, and you can visit daily to make sure she's being well taken care of.
Also, have to talked to an elder law attorney? This is for the purpose of getting the type of Medicaid that will pay for nursing home.
If where you live is so isolated and no competent help and services available, then you should consider relocating to where there are better services.
Maybe counseling would help you, but you would have to LISTEN to what they have to say.
He and his wife need someone they can trust to guide them. I don't know who that could be at this point. Seems like his children as well as hers don't have a relationship with either of them. No mention of any one appointed as their Power of Attorney.
Poster's situation sounds like a classic case of fail to plan, plan to fail. Poster and his wife have been on Medicare for 15+ years by this point. How many years ago was the dementia diagnosis? Sounds like poster was not proactive about planning for their future. Now he wants to "force" people to do for him what he was unwilling to do for himself.
There are social workers all across Florida including at Federally Qualified Health Centers. Some will even travel to rural areas. There are programs for old people and poor people in virtually every community across our great country. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
If you live in an area where there is no “competent” help, then its’ on you to make changes to go where there is help. The family is under no obligation to become slaves to you now because you refuse to change or accept the help that is available. I don’t mean this to be harsh, but you need to wake up here.
I do wish you the best...
From er responses, he is the only one in the room that knows anything, he also stated that his wife's children have endowments, so that means their dad had money, financially set his children up for future and that means that he left his wife financially secure. If she has alienated her children by marrying the poster, it means they thought he was after her money. I say that because that is what he is now trying to do with them. You have it stepchildren and now I am entitled to force you to fork over anything I say we need, because no one, not even doctors know as much as me. So pay up and avoid a lawsuit, if I can figure out how to sue you. Mom is on Medicaid and poster obviously doesn't get a good pension or ss for that matter. Mom probably was a stay at home mom and 1st husband left her secure enough to not worry that she would run out of money, never considering that she would remarry and forfeit his ss benefits she received. Then enter husband #2 who blew through all of her financial future because, hey her kids have money and we will force them to pay up when she is broke. He just didn't bargain for healthy children that can set and enforce boundaries, but he won't know about those things.
Sounds like the wife isn't the only one with loss of executive function. When anyone believes that they are the only ones that know anything you are dealing with dementia and/or NPD. Terrible situation for the poor woman that can no longer make her own choices.
States with filial responsibility laws. Alaska, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada (Nevada law only addresses support of children and not support of parents.
And as by "help" the OP means "pay," then unfortunately the short answer to the question is "you can't."
Would I be unkind or unfair to guess that you wish to keep your wife with you in your home and commission care and nursing services to support you as her primary caregiver?
And does this mean that you find it difficult to discuss what would, unfortunately, be a very expensive care plan with people who are keen to recommend alternative care plans?
I am on that list, Louisiana. Interesting. We should all be educated on these topics. Thanks again. I will read up on it.
Dear Dick and Jane,
I hope this letter finds you and the grandkids well. As you know Mom isn’t doing well and we are quickly depleating our resources with her care. We have applied and are receiving government assistance but our small pension of $_______ /month still leaves us really strapped and unable to __________. (Fill in the blank)
It would be such help if you could assist us with _________.
Love Mom and Pops.
They could throw it in the circular file, or respond. You never know but it might be an alternative approach to what you’ve tried.
You dont say say what the agencies you’ve contacted aren’t helping with...and of course they can’t help get money out of the kids. But I really want to implore you to heed the advice of medical professionals for her care. And for YOUR care too. Please talk to YOUR doctor about the situation and how YOU are. It must be very exhausting to try to navigate the “system”. And you probably have to schlep your wife to all the appointments, since you probably can’t leave her unattended. Makes me tired just thinking about it. Remember if you go down, she will have no one. My dear 90 year old friend who was taking care of his wife (similar kid situation as yours) ran himself ragged and passed away. Now she’s thriving in a nursing home.
Take care.
it does not apply if the parent abandoned the child for 10 years or longer. It does not apply if the child cannot afford to support their parent.
it is highly highly unlikely anyone here will ever be a victim if filial law.
I'm just going to throw this out there....if you're trying to scam someone online to send you money it's hopefully not going to work. The reason I brought this up is it's the only thing left that someone hasn't suggested. If I've offended you then good! Now you now that if you can piss people off in one day on a website God only knows what you put those kids through in 16 years.