Friend survived being taken off life support and now is in Hospice and not getting food or water. Advice?

I think there is a misconception that "unplugging" the patient leads to immediate death. That may happen, but often the body can struggle on for an extended period of time off life support, especially a young, fit body.
Withholding food and water at end of life is not done to be cruel or to hasten death, it is done because the body approaching death can not handle the food and water. The doctors and hospice obviously felt that there was no hope that your friend could recover and are acting accordingly to try and ease your friend's final days. Are they wrong? Well, we hear of people who have come to the brink, even crossed over, but have pulled back. If you get the second opinion, no matter what the outcome, you will be able to have some peace of mind.

I am so sorry that you are going through this, Ryogogen. It is not something we expect young people to face. (Not that it is easy at any age.)

I have gone through hospice with both my mother and my husband. Each time enrolling involved an interview of about an hour. All aspects were explained to me. I'm a little surprised that her parents are now so clueless about what they signed her up for.

Hospice is for persons that medical science has "given up" on -- that is, they can't think of more to do to get this person well. They feel the person is dying. Hospice cares for the dying to ensure some dignity and comfort and away from the hectic atmosphere of a hospital. Sometimes the medical opinion is wrong. My mother appeared to be dying, but in three months she was doing so well she left the hospice program. That was more than a year ago. My husband, on the other hand, died sooner than hospice expected him too. No one can give an absolutely accurate prediction of when death will occur.

Could it be that the hospital just didn't want to deal with her? In the sense that hospitals are about healing and they didn't think there was any chance of healing her they probably wanted her where something could be done for her, namely keeping her pain-free and comfortable. I doubt that Medicaid's coverage had anything to do with the decision. (Remember, you were hearing this from people who didn't know what they signed their daughter up for and don't know how old she is. Not exactly a reliable source.)

Of course you don't want her to die. You don't want her to live as a "vegtable." You urgently want her to have that second chance. I do too, and I don't even know her. I am glad to know a second opinion has been asked for. That is about as much as can be done at this point. After the opinion is received there may be some additional decisions to be made. I hope you can be influential with her parents at that time.

Please let us know how this progresses.

A very sad thing to go through, heart breaking for the loved ones. There are no good options here, unfortunately, she will not get "well". The folks at hospice actually understand the process of dying better than those of us who do not deal with this on a daily basis. Recovery is not an option - pain management is.
If she is still capable of some emotion, hold her hand when she awakes, speak to her and be there for her and each other. Prepare yourself to let go.
May God bless you and strengthen you all through this difficult time.

I am confused. How old is this person? What is your relationship? Without a POA only mom and dad can make decisions. If they want her tube fed then why did they move her to hospice? I have a hunch that you don't know all of what is going on. If your friend flat lined she was not breathing. But the damage to the brain, especially with sepsis could be quite significant. I had a friend go through exactly something like thisma year ago. I understand your concern. I had tolet mt friend's family figure out what to do. I did not want to interfere in that process at all. It was none of my business.

Sepsis is quite serious and will cause organs to fail one at a time. This is exactly what I went through a year ago. And when they removed him from life support they did not think he would survive either. But, he lasted a week and a half. Had he survived, he would have been in a vegetative state the rest of his life. HE would not have wanted to live like that.

So, just be there for your friend's family, offer them support in any way you can.

This is truly a very sad situation... a daughter and parents who both have drug problems, the daughter in a near death state and the parents not really understanding what's going on.

Whether the daughter can recover is an issue that seems to be dependent on the parents understanding and making the appropriate decisions, and it seems they really don't and aren't. As a friend I don't know what you can do except to ask for some kind of outside intervention, and I'm not even sure what that would be.

If she were older, Adult Protective Services (APS) might intervene; I don't know if they become involve in these kinds of situations though. If the daughter were younger and a juvenile, Probate Court court intervene on a neglect petition.

In order to get intervention, someone would have to request it, or notify authorities. And it doesn't seem as if the parents would do this. The only thing I can think of is to get advice from the local police to see if there is anything that can be done to override the decisions of the parents, such as the process for getting a conservator or guardian for the daughter. However, the fact that they addicts might mitigate against the advisability of that, and apparently there's no money (other than for drugs) to pay for a guardian or conservator.

You could consider reporting the parents for drug use, which might take them out of the picture and then a guardian could be appointed, but these things can take time and it seems the daughter is in a critical stage with parents not really understanding what's going on.

Just thought of something else - a substance abuse counselor might know of ways to intervene. Perhaps the police or even a social worker at a local hospital could help you find one.

As to a second chance, it seems she's in CHF and may have a pleural effusion in addition to the other conditions, and she's probably immune compromised because of the drugs. If she does survive, what can be done to ensure that she goes into rehab and gets away from the parents? Otherwise, this situation could repeat itself again and again.

Ryogogen, some questions to help me understand this, why was your friend put on the life support to begin with? You had mentioned she had been shooting up pills? What does that mean? Did the misuse of pills caused the heart condition? And that is why the heart had stopped? Was she on life support when that happened?

The doctors know far better then we do when one's life is now limited. Yes she opened her eyes and tried to talk, but was it a normal brain activity or just a body reaction? People in comas will make body moments and open eyes but that is muscle activity not produced by brain activity.

This is sad as your friend is way too young to be going through this.

FF, this is what I think as well - she O'D'ed and was put on life support.

At least you know she's not suffering if she's on morphine. When the body is dying, food can't be digested and is painful to have it in the tummy, and with dehydration, just having a moist mouth makes a person more comfortable. Morphine makes a person struggle to breathe less which keeps them from being as afraid as they could be.

And you are at her side. Hold her hand and let her know that you miss her terribly and will always remember and fight to prevent drugs from snatching another young person away from the life that should have been theirs. It's a sad situation that she and her parents were into drugs. Hospice makes the situation as good as it could be.

Dear Ryogogen, I don't have anything to add to the good advice you're getting from the other members of the forum, but I want to say what a wonderful friend you are, and that I'm thinking of you and your friend in hospice. C.

Ryogogen, I am so sorry that you are going through this sad sad situation with your friend! I hope that you can be involved in a interview with her parents and the Dr's, and hopefully they can explain exactly what her heathcare options are, and if there is any more that they can do for her other than comfort care. Be the good friend that you are, and give er as much Love and comfort that you can. Wipin/swabbing her mouth with those little water sponges help to keep her comfortable, and assisting the nurses and her parents with being in her hospital room, helping to turn her side to side, as well, with the nurses advising you of course, and just letting her know how much you Love her and how much your friendship has always meant to you will also help to give you peace of mind. Remember that if her destiny is to pass on, then please know that she will be going to a better place, and she will no longer be suffering. At some point Sweetie, we have to give it up to God, and he will take care of her, believe that! You hang in there, and let us know how you are doing as well! Take Care!