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My father is the POA and lives out of state. I moved here almost 5 years ago to help my other set of grandparents and I found out how bad this set had gotten. I have uncles and cousins here but nobody helps. My father says they say they are getting rid of things and when he visits, he says he won’t force them to do anything they don’t want to do. It’s floor to ceiling in the guest bedroom and bathroom and in the walk-in area, living room, kitchen, and dining room with just a narrow pathway from the front door to their bedroom with a tiny trail to the kitchen sink and refrigerator and their washer and dryer. They don’t get rid of anything and they keep buying things. You can smell urine from outside. They have a dog. Grandma and the dog are incontinent. Grandpa does everything for Grandma. My father is the POA and refuses to force them to move against their will and keeps saying they say they are getting rid of things. My father lives out of state but visits. My father’s brothers and their children all live in the area but nobody really visits because it’s too gross. My throat hurts and I get itchy if I am in there for longer than maybe 20 minutes. I have been trying for almost 5 years but nobody will help me and nothing has improved. I don’t know who to talk to but I want to anonymously report this situation so they can get forced out of their trailer and into assisted living. Please, help me!

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I would report the situation to APS. The phone number for Iowa Adult Protective services is (800) 362-2178. Here is the website:

https://dhs.iowa.gov/DependentAdultProtectiveServices/Families

If your grandparents are considered to still be competent to manage their own affairs then you may not have any options right now. Still, it certainly couldn't hurt to get them on the radar screen of the authorities.
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BobItsABoy Feb 2019
Thank you!
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If it's really bad the local fire department might be another agency that can force change.
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gdaughter Feb 2019
At work I am going through old accumulated papers...I came across a letter today that was written to someone living in a apartment and came from the fire chief 10+ years ago. The person was given a rigid deadline and this was after there had been some sort of gas explosion which is when the fire dept made a visit and saw what was going on. It was a decision purely focused on safety of the person and others in the building, very objective. Focused on rooms being blocked, exits hard to get to, outlets blocked, small paths...
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When is your father next visiting? Go with him if you can, and if you can do it without upsetting anyone take pictures. Then sit down with your father afterwards, make him look at the situation objectively, and ask him if he seriously thinks it's his father's wish to be living in a trailer full of fall and trip hazards with his incontinent wife and neglected dog.

I will champion elders' rights to autonomy until I am blue in the face, but the other side of that coin is that you have to be alert to signs that they're not following their own wishes, they're just scared stiff of what happens next. The answer is to make a plan they are happy with, it's not to carry on regardless until somebody gets hurt.

If you can't do this soon, or you don't think it'll get you anywhere, then act on Snoopy's really helpful information without delay. It's the right thing to do: no matter how anxious you feel about "calling APS on them", remember that it's *nothing* compared to how you'll feel if somebody else does.
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It’s a safety issue. I agree, you should call.
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Calls to APS are anonymous, I hope, as they state they are,
One would at least get the ball rolling, altho in my sad experience, they are so hamstrung wiht regulations--nothing really happens. There will be an "investigation" and if things are found out of order, they'll be addressed, but likely the house will simply be brought "to code" and then the file will be shut.

I was appalled at the hoarding at my mom's place, but APS just told her to toss her many throw rugs.

I also get really sick if I visit more than an hour--it's just so smelly and needs to be emptied and scrubbed to a fare-thee-well--and this will not happen until she dies.

You can always try, don't get the hoped up too high.
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I'd report to Adult Protective Services and also the SPCA. That pet needs to be rescued. Getting the animal out might be easier than the humans. There also might be Fire Code Violations. Hoarding is said to be a mental health issue and it's difficult to get people out of it. If they are competent, I'd likely let them make their own decisions, though, that sounds cold. But, tackling something like that is a big deal. The county may not want to take it on either, but, for me, the innocent dog shouldn't have to suffer.
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bevthegreat Feb 2019
The pet wouldn't be rescued. It would be killed.
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Call the local protective services agency/hotline. It should be confidential. Try telling your grandparents' doctor or another mandatory reporter. I had an emotional discussion with the hospital social worker when my mother was in the hospital, and the social worker made the call. Or, the visiting nurse made the call when my mother went home. an investigator went to her house and declared it to be a "hazard" and gave her two weeks to clean it, but left her in the house. It took five of us to clean three rooms within those two weeks - it was very difficult with my mother following us around and objecting to throwing away trash and removing vast amounts of clutter and trip hazards from the floor, and clearing kitchen table, counters, and appliances. Mountains of dirty dishes. Two weeks later, the investigator returned and saw that the living room, kitchen and bathroom were clean, but the two bedrooms were still a "hazard". He gave her another two weeks to clean those rooms. Some progress was made, huge amount of "stuff" removed but not allowed to be taken out of the house. However, he never returned. No follow-up inspection. Within one month, the place was trashed again, and over time it became worse than ever. So, if you make a call to protective services, be sure to follow-up with the agency. I still don't understand why my mother was allowed to continue living in the "hazard" - I wouldn't let a dog live there.
Good luck to you. My heart goes out to you.
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gdaughter Feb 2019
Terrible...real help should not be dumped on the backs of caregivers/family alone. Hoarding must be seen as a chronic condition and unless there is a change of environment or help, not much is going to improve. It is terribly sad and more common than people realize.
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I've been watching that "Hoarders" TV show. Maybe you can call them to help?
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Daughterof1930 Feb 2019
What you’re watching is repeat episodes. The show hasn’t been in production for a few years now
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You can Get Protective Adult Services to Give him a Call and All, But it won't Really Help. They will say Dad is POA and Has a Handle on it, And as Ling as they are Not Endangering themselves with being an Idiot, A file will Be made, But Nothing Done, hun.
Give them a Hand in the Hoarding and Smell. That is The Best from any Rest you can Do so they can Maintain a Healthier Quality of Life of No Strife.
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Several calls can be made.
Call the local Senior Center. Often they have social workers that may be able to help. (If they can't they may be able to point you in the right direction.)
Call Adult Protective Service if there is one in your area.
Call the Health Department
Call the Fire Department.
Hoarding in most areas is not "legal" and they can be forced to make changes or if they can't or your father will not step in to do anything there is a good possibility that they will be removed from the home and they will have Guardians appointed. This is not the ideal situation as it will cause quite a bit of stress. For all parties.
But it sounds like this is something that has to be done for their safety. So do NOT feel guilty.
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gdaughter Feb 2019
We had a situation once where a brother intervened while his hoarding sister was hospitalized and did a major clean up. She came home and was LIVID. Same situation involved an apartment...i.e. the fire hazard generated risk for the entire complex/building. Building was old and steam triggered the fire alarm which could only be shut-off by the arrival of the fire dept. When they got in her unit and saw the paths, and that outlets were blocked and windows were blocked for an emergency exit...they passed on their concern to social workers...
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I completely agree with the advice to call APS and attempt to get help. I’ll also advise not to underestimate a hoarder. My brother is one. We’ve helped him clean out 3 times, at his request, and each time the hoard only grew worse afterwards. This is a mental disorder that is is hard to deal with and almost impossible to overcome. Bless you for caring and trying to help, I hope it goes well, such a tough issue to deal with
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Call Social Services in the town where they live and report the situation to them. I ran into this problem with the mother of a friend who I would visit occasionally. She too was a hoarder; you could not find an empty spot on her kitchen counters, she was an alcoholic, the house was not clean, and she definitely was not eating properly. Social services came and took over. Started with Meals on Wheels, had someone come in & clean the home; however eventually she was moved into Assisted Living.
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gdaughter Feb 2019
Not finding an empty spot on surfaces is low on the hoarding scale...this situation is at the top...just sayin....
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Yes, call Elder Services or Adult Protective Services in your state.

My heart goes out to you!
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I think you should re think turning them in.

I know you mean well, but I think it would be devastating and maybe even more detrimental to their health to be forced out of their home and have their furry companion be killed, because no one wants an old dog.

If they live in a trailer, they probably dont have much money which means they'll probably not get to live at a nice Senior place, because they cost lots of money.

I think you should speak with them and tell them that someone will be coming to check on them and if all this is seen, they will be forced to move.

Rent a space and tell them that the stuff will be put in there and as stuff is moved out of the house, put the good items in storage and the junk in the trash.

Start by cleaning out the Guest Bedroom so you'll have a place to put their special things.

I know you said no one helps, but arrange a time when your Dad is coming to visit them and let them know that they have to let their place be cleaned up or they have to leave their home.

Let them think that it will be the State coming to check on them and if it's not cleaned up, they will be forced to leave.

Im sure when it comes down to cleaning and getting rid of the clutter or have to move out, they'll allow the clutter to be removed.

Please try this before calling in on them.
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I agree with those saying to call Adult Protective Services.
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My parents were hoarders with squalor exactly as you describe your grandparents, right down to the incontinent dog and mom.

For five years, I spent many weekends and days off work to jump on cleaning when my dad indicated he wanted to fix the problem. We would get an area usable, I'd come to visit the next weekend and everything was back as though nothing was done.

Mom had me take her to the hospital and they called APS due to her poor hygiene. Dad let them in the house. APS had the police check out the house. I talked to the detective who said there is no law against hoarding if they are of sound mind.

The end result was that mom had to stay with me until she got better (five years) and moved to independent living. Dad was allowed to stay in his house until he was hospitalized twice due to a severe infection. He was discharged to my house because he couldn't get healthy in his own house. Today, the house is an expensive storage building.

I'm giving you my example of how a similar situation turned out. It could be handled differently with the authorities in your area. I feel for you wanting to fix the mess. Unfortunately, your grandparents don't see a mess, they see treasures and a livable home. The laws have much gray area regarding hoarding and elders.
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BobItsABoy Feb 2019
Yep! Grandma tells me she wants me to help her clean and go through things but she won’t get rid of anything, so we move piles around and kick up dust until I am sick.
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You can also call the police and request a welfare check. That will start the ball rolling to get them help.
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gdaughter Feb 2019
True...but that can be pretty upsetting.
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Your father is in denial, the rest of your relatives are overwhelmed, and EVERYone is at risk. Adult Protective is the only way to go, it will be/should be anonymous...if they think it is you, deny it. Too many others know for them to ever confirm it was you.
There is a hoarding scale by experts. They are clearly over the top. Check out some books by Randy Frost...AFTER you make the call. You will feel better for having done something. Google hoarding in the area in which you are. Here in Cleveland we have something called The Hoarding Connection...even if you are not here, the website and resources listed might be a big help to you. Good luck...and bless you for being such a good grandchild. YOu might want to touch base with an elderlaw attorney at some point...and if your father is in denial as you describe, he might not be the best choice to be POA. Sending and holding good thoughts. Do it today so you don't have another weekend of as much stress and worry....
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BobItsABoy Feb 2019
Thanks!
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ps...don't get rid of the pup...the incontinence can be treated/dealt with and the poor little one may be ill, have a bladder infection or just isn't/can't be let out regularly.
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I Googled "hoarders need help Iowa" and found some companies listed.  Maybe you can give them a call and see what type of assistance they can give your grandparents. 
Copy and Paste to your internet browser:
https://hoardingcleanup.com/Iowa_CTS_Cleaners
Iowa CTS Cleaners 
"Iowa CTS Cleaners is the leading hoarding and clutter clean up company based out of Grimes, Iowa. We specialize in hoarding, clutter, and disaster clean ups. From our management to our on-site crews, you will not find a more knowledgeable, professional, compassionate, patient, and caring staff around. Iowa CTS Cleaners is owned by a United States Marine Corp. veteran and founded on the basis of helping families in a time of need. We will assist families and clients through the process of initially assessing the situation, custom tailoring a plan to clean up the home and restore it to a safe and functional state. We have worked with numerous families and clients over the years and we believe, you as our customer, deserve the best service and we at Iowa CTS Cleaners strive to provide that to our customers no matter what the situation may be. We look forward to helping you through the process while keeping you, as the customer, as comfortable and stress free as possible. Contact us with any questions regarding our services."

 http://www.decluttercleanup.com/iowa/rockwell.html
"Hoarding Cleanup in Rockwell, IA"

Your grandparents might need to have a bio-hazard company clean out their house if there are rodents or mold or whatever.  Hope that this information helps.
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BobItsABoy Feb 2019
Thanks!!!
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It sounds like your grandmother has some health issues, has she made any trips to the hospital or are there any ailments that might benefit from in home assistance? I ask because her PCP could put in orders for VNA to go to the home to evaluate say medication program or her ability to bathe and care for herself, maybe her incontinence could come into play or PT... it may not mean she get's these services for ever but it means (at least in CT and I think it's a universal thing covered by Medicare) that a nurse will come in and evaluate her needs (could be done for grandfather too) and would likely include at least one visit from a social worker as well and then any other services the evaluation determines is needed. This would certainly trigger a discussion with grandparents and probably your father about the living conditions and how they relate to health, safety and maybe even legalities if there are any and it would put the responsibility on someone without the emotional family attachment, take the pressure off of you and your dad. Your dad being POA doesn't give him the authority or ability to require them to move or clean up against their will, it just gives him the authority to do the things they wish, act on their behalf the way they would not force them to do things they don't want to even if it's for their own good. You dad may have tried harder and more often then you realize to get them to change but hasn't been able to and is at a loss himself so has kind of tossed his hands up, sounds like that's what his siblings who live in the area have done. I'm not saying that means you don't try just that his POA doesn't give him the ability to "force" anything. Now it does give him the ability to converse with their doctors and approach it from that angle, explaining the situation and concern and asking if they could find a reason to send in VNA or whom ever without making your dad responsible for triggering the events in his parents minds. I asked at the beginning about any hospital stays or visits because this is a really easy avenue. When older people go to the hospital it's very common that VNA is triggered at least for a short time/evaluation and to check up on them when they are discharged. In many circumstances if there is family taking on responsibility they will wave that and put the patient in there hands but you (or dad) can easily clue them in that even though there is someone (sounds like your GF in this case for GM) they will need help at least at first too so VNA is important. Let them know on the side or often just the right look or shake of the head when they are asking or being asked (they will usually look to the younger person in the room for that) without making a big deal of the need in front of grandparents. My guess is your grandparents know their living quarters are not ok and don't want "outsiders" to see it so they will work hard at preventing any services but this should also be obvious to a medical professional that works with the elderly population and you or more your dad need to hold firm on not enabling them to keep people out. It's one thing for your dad to say he isn't going to force them to do anything they don't want to and another for him to enable them to harm themselves or cover up when medical professionals are prescribing things. It's like going along with one of them not taking their heart medication or insulin because it's a bother. My guess is if dad has some back up and can see an avenue with support, his siblings as well, he/they might be more active in a positive way again.

Another thought, are there any female family members who could get involved either with the "care" of mom or just helping to wrangle the household? I don't agree and hate to say it but there might be a generational thing here that would make it easier for Grandfather and GMother to allow a female to take charge of some of this, they might be more accepting because it's more "traditional"?
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YOU aren't living there are you? I hope not!!!<3
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From the description, something needs to be done. Your grandfather is overwhelmed and doesn't have the perspective to know just how bad it is. This is a dangerous situation that could mean their lives. I had a dear friend who lived in a small house and was a hoarder. Many who cared about her, including me, tried to help her clear out stuff. We would get so far and then she would become resistant. Lots and lots of magazines, newspapers and papers. Her eyesight was poor and there were tripping hazards galore. One of her friends advised her that if there was a fire and she couldn't exit her home, to go into the bathroom tub and hold a wet cloth over her nose and mouth until help came. That dreadful day did come to pass. She couldn't get out and did as he said. The heat was so intense that it melted the eyeglasses on her face. She managed to survive but not without serious damage to her lungs which forced her to live out the next two years bouncing back and forth from hospital to nursing home until she passed away. A grade school classmate of mine just lost his mother because she could exit her house in a fire. Yes. They are adults and one must be respectful of their wishes, HOWEVER, their lives are dependent on living in a safe environment. I don't advocate "forcing them out of their trailer" but it sounds like intervention to eliminate the clutter is overdue. I'm curious, have they ever needed the assistance of an ambulance? From your description, if EMS ever arrived, they would likely report the situation to the authorities. In the meantime, offer them help in bagging up obvious trash and taking it out for them. Suggest putting a donation bag (simple paper grocery bag) by the door and try to fill one a week; if they think it is being donated, they may be willing to get rid of it sooner. (You can decide to donate or throw out whatever they place inside.) Do check all pockets in clothing so that something isn't unintentionally discarded. Last, wear a mask and disposable gloves if you feel that the house is unhealthy. Someone suggested that dad (the poa) make a visit with you; great idea!
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BobItsABoy Feb 2019
Thanks!!!
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From my experience one of the ways to force the issue with your grandparents is removing and rescuing the dog. Call your local county animal welfare office or the nearest humane society. The poor animal needs to get into a healthy environment where at least he can live out his remaining days in calm and cleanliness. He might be less sick than you imagine once you get him out of that ordeal. Remember: this pet is not able to change his life like humans - it is up to you to help. This change will cause an upheaval, yes, but that is what you need for everyone to get healthy. Best of luck to you.
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Hording is a safety hazard and in violation of fire codes and building codes and must be dealt with accordingly. If the homeowner or a tenant does not comply, report is to the authorities.
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Try to get a doctor to diagnose them as incompetent to take care of themselves. Then, with father's help as POA, move them to assisted living & control what is in their environment. I had to do that with my Mom & she would only listen to her Dr. about moving to living assisted.
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You can anonymously report the situation to the Adult Protective Agency (APA) in your area. They can come out and do an assessment and if they feel they are in a unsafe environment they can place them into an Assisted Living or Skilled Nursing Home.

I will tell you that if you make an anonymous call it does not carry as much weight as if you give your name. However, when you place the call let the APA Staff aware of how serious the situation is. Give specific examples of why their living environment is unsafe. If you this it can get someone out to the home quicker than if you don't give specific details.
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Toadhall Mar 2019
Yes take photos and mail/email them to APS!
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Your family won't help because they don't want to be the Bad Person. They have chose to just let it be. Is shows through your post that YOU care. If your Grandma is incontinent, she probably has UTI. They don't feel it younger people do. Report this situation as friend. The Department of Human Services doesn't tell who reported the situation. If you report it, the agency will go and see if there is a health risk issue. If they deem there is no health risk to residents or community, nothing will happen. But know in your heart that you tried. Let them be. Soon or later unfortunately, something will happen. One of them will fall or get sick. If you go over there, tell them you can't some in because it smells too bad. Make them come outside to visit. Sometimes people live in that for so long, they don't even know its bad smelling. Stubborn older people can be a problem. I wish you the best. Do what your heart tells you. You might have to be the Bad Person, but you will know in your heart you did the right thing.
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Find, talk to a geriatrician, and take your grandparents to him/her. The geriatrician will discuss to your grandparents about their needs, and recognize that their home is not very safe. Then, the geriatrician will find a social worker for them to visit their house. Believe me, I went through it with my parents. 🙁😔 Hugs 🤗
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Hoarding is, indeed, a mental illness, and although you may address the "cleanliness factor" and feel good about it, in my experience, hoarders can totally re-hoard a place in weeks, as they NEED to be surrounded by junk to feel safe, or valuable..whatever.

Mother's hoarding is pretty mild, since we simply insist that papers and garbage and bags of wet pads and depends GO OUT at least bi weekly. And, WOW does she get mad when I take the newspapers to the recycle bin. It's kind of picking your poison, really. Since she lives in an apartment in a home--the smell travels to the rest of the house pretty seriously. And she's mad at my SIL for complaining for the smell!! I think when you live in someone else's home, you should at least attempt to follow some basic rules.

Addressing the "hoard" is EASY. Addressing the underlying mental illness is nigh to impossible. I actually have never known a "cured" hoarder.

If the case is really bad and the hoarder just freaks out over "loosing their life"..get as many clear plastic bins as you can and just pack those. If they are the clear ones, they seem to calm the hoarder a little as they can see inside) Mother has about 20 in the storage area in the crawlspace. It's ALL garbage and will be thrown away after she dies. It's time to do that again, although we did this about 3-4 years ago, she never forgave me and I am not allowed to so much as scrape the coat of dust off her dead plants. She did recently let my niece cull her closet, only because she didn't have the strength to push aside one item to see another. Niece reported she "gave away" maybe 10 things.

I have long since given up trying to help her. If she gave me 2 days with carte blanche---she'd come home to a clean, sweet smelling MUCH more spacious living environment. Which she would absolutely HATE.

And that will NEVER happen. Never.

I am referred to the heartless daughter who throws away everything.
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guiltandanger Feb 2019
I can relate to your situation so much! About two years after my dad died, my mother said that she would like to go through the stuff in the house and organize it and donate some of my dad's things (clothes, etc.). So, I offered to help her t do that. This was years before her house became a filthy, hazardous hoarder's home. Years later, when confronted with the problem and the need to remove the stuff, she said no one ever offers to help her and she can't do it all on her own. I reminded her that I had offered to help several times. She replied "All you ever did was offer to get rid of my things!" Yes, I am also the daughter who just wants to control her life and throw away her treasured belongings. Sigh.
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