What would you do if you had a MIL like this?

Had a meeting with the ltc facility today and they feel she shouldn't be in there care. I straight up told them no one will be there to take care of her and that her husband's family owned the house and they are selling it. My hands were sweating as I told them I refuse to take her home as they told me the same thing. I told them too many things are going on and they agreed to keep her, at private pay of course and told us how much it would be. We did not even blink an eye and the room went silent.

She is in a location now. The er doctor was seriously no help nor was her own doctor. We spoke with a case manager who sent out referrals and one of them accepted.

I looked up the possible/probable hospital mil is at (from the location you posted on your profile), and it's a regional hospital, correct? And there is a Senior Behavioral Health Services unit there. No one at the hospital has recommended it, despite her threats of suicide?

The hospital seem to be have an All or Nothing approach - you take MIL & do it ALL or leave her, do nothing (& let the State take over her care + all her funds).

I would choose my wording carefully, then put it on repeat.

Something like;

"We want to HELP, but we are not a Nursing Home.

We can VISIT MIL, but we cannot live there.

We have been TEMPORARILY staying but cannot any longer.
* It is UNSAFE for ALL of us.
*She has threatened SUICIDE.
* Our family is in crisis & needs HELP.

Please help by arranging a Social Worker to assist us.

No we will not pick-up her up TODAY. This does not mean we relinquish all CARE. It means we CANNOT COPE with her care needs.

PS if the hospital medical team DO assess MIL as competent & a safe discharge home alone if she is agreeable to home services (which people ususally do to get out) then as an 'independant person' she can make her own way home - bus, taxi, uber etc

Natural consequences follow.

Sometimes that stops a discharge right there. (Especially if unable to walk to the door.. OK sometimes staff will wheelchair a patient to a taxi... but then can get stuck at home. EMS called).

Or if she does make discharge, you can arrange APS & Police welfare checks.

Update 3: the hospital put out requesting admittance for ltc. The er doctor let her go then called us to come and pick her up. We said no and they told mu husband he will have to deal with dss again and if they take over then he would not ever see her and they would take all the property away and on and on and on. So, I told him to ask for a second opinion for her mental status. We shall see.

Hospital is refusing and her doctor is refusing. We told them then we will leave and she will be all alone. We refused to pick her up as we will no longer be tormented by this situation. We have tried going to ltc and they all say that the need a referral and everyone is saying no. So once again, she is being very manipulative and I am done with all of it.

Is there anyway you can buy out the joint owners of the house?
Have mom taken to the doctor and get a different psych diagnosis. Obviously the one in the hospital is over tired. She is not a safe person smoking with oxygen in the house.
I know when I told my daddy that we needed to go to the doctor to refill his prescriptions he was all for it. Telling her that a doctors appointment is needed she may not fight you.

wow, following this thread has been a rollercoaster.
The elder in question here has had too much autonomy already.
When she started losing it after having you guys move in there wasn't enough intervention. You should have had her assessed and prepared for the inevitable. If she has any lucid moments now try and show her you care how it turns out. Her Son should have explained politely there is one option for supper. You should understand she has no capacity for autonomy any longer. Like a child but with psych issues. No self control, pent up anger and frustration, terrible fear, try and see this through her eyes. A normal person doesn't go through the ups and downs MIL has. She is in real need now. Get a competent and experienced elder care doctor to give an honest assessment.

Hopefully, everyone will see this update. I have had no luck getting back in with my original user name. She threatened to kill herself. We called the police and they took her to the hospital. The psychologist spoke with my husband and she kept telling them that we withhold her grandchildren, they are actually her great grand children. I am a mean person who is trying to take her son away and called me his girlfriend when I am his wife. She then went on to say God told her not to do it. Well, we went to the bar for trivia night gone for two hours and she was calling people saying we left her and had not been home for hours. She then proceeded to go grab a knife from the kitchen and leave it on her bed. Mind you, she always forgets that we have cameras and can see what is happening. She then went to the living room, grabbed the remote, called her brother in law and told them she has not seen us all day and we left. She then heard the cat door, went back to her bedroom, showed us the knife then said she was going to kill herself. Well, we told her God would not like that and called the police. She then tells the psychologist. Mind you, my husband had no idea what actually happened till we reviewed the footage. He then told the psychologist that she needs to be put in a nursing home and he cannot deal with her anymore. That she is a risk to everyone and no one will come and see her at the house because of her smoking. The psych said he is sure this is a one time incident and she has once again made us the bad guys.

This is a sh*tshow! I can see where this is overwhelming and you feel that there is no where to turn. BUT I really think you need to see an attorney or a social worker or someone that can properly advise you. Contrary to what APS has told you, you do NOT need to care for her. No one can force anyone to care for another person. Everyone that works for government agencies such as APS does not necessarily know what they are doing. Your mother's case will be a tough one for ANYONE to deal with so I can see why they are trying to push it back on your husband.

Maybe you should take a 2 week vacation to see your daughter and grandkids. Get away from the craziness! Hubby should put mommy in respite care and go with you. I think she needs a thorough eval (psych maybe) and some meds to get her under control. She's literally impossible. They only way is going to be meds. Which may be against her wishes but so be it.

Ignore the few people on here that have misunderstood you and are not being supportive. You are getting good support and ideas from the majority.

Didavis I hope you are still here?

You came to this forum when Following MIL's plan was not working.

Getting Out was blocked (by APS threats of neglect & being blacklisted by in-home care agencies).

* Lead. Follow. Get out of the way *
That famous quote by either Thomas Paine or General George S. Patton.

LEAD is your way out.

Honest thoughts on this….

Next time she goes to the hospital, make sure she goes to rehab and then refuse discharge. Say that she has no one at home to take care of her.

Force her to be placed permanently in a NH as Medicaid pending. Sometimes the NH or long term care facility will help with the Medicaid process.

Good luck and remember to always put your well being first.

OP disappeared. if you look at the profile, there is the "kitty" picture. lots of OPs disappearing.

You husband does not have to accept her upon discharge. He needs to say no to an unsafe discharge. Hospital says there is no place to send her. However many families say no. The hospital will keep her until they figure it out.
Sure, as an employee for 40 years, I used to see patients with psych issues for several weeks, but they find a way to find a place.
You husband or family can get conservatorship and once obtained, get her to reimburse the legal part. You husband just needs to be assertive and repeat, no more care from the family when she is hospitalized

From the OP:

"She has a genetic disorder CADASIL, I believe that is genetic."

This is a condition that causes dementia and mood disorders.

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/types-dementia/cadasil#:~:text=CADASIL%20is%20a%20rare%2C%20inherited%20type%20of%20vascular%20disease%20(a,caused%20by%20a%20faulty%20gene.

This lady needs and deserves specialized treatment.

A Juul vape pen would eliminate fire risk and satisfies her addiction. And if she goes to a facility vaping will be far easier to accommodate.

Personally, I'm not seeing where she can not take care of herself.

From an internet search;

RISK OF BURNS
If you use oxygen and insist on smoking, have a “Ten Minute Rule.” Turn off the oxygen supply and wait at least 10 minutes for high concentrations of oxygen to dissipate before going outside to smoke. This will reduce the risk of fire or serious burns to the face or body if clothing ignites.

I read your newer replies to the commentators, didavis2. I think what has to happen now is you and your hsuband have to do an 'ER Dump' for your MIL.
This means that you bring her to the hospital and ask for a 'Social Admit' be sure to use this exact term. Every hospital in the country knows what it is.
The ER will send down a social worker to talk to both of you. Then you explain that your MIL's needs have exceeded your abilities to provide adequate care to her in the home. Then let them talk. Let everything they say go in one ear and out the other.
The social workers and nurses will promise everything imaginabe if you are willing to take her home. They will promise endless resources, homecare, caregiver payment to both of you, everything.
None of it is true.
Their main objective is to keep MIL off of their hands.
Stay strong and refuse to take her back. Tell them you and your husband are going to be moving out-of-state to be near your daughter and that you will not take MIL.
Whatever the hospital says, promises, or threatens with both of you must refuse to allow her back home.
The hospital will admit her until they find somewhere to place her.

Get some theraby for yourself and your husband to learn how to deal with this woman. It sounds like the only thing you're doing is repeating the same miserable circle of actions and reactions, and you need to learn how to do something different.

Just picked these out..

"threatens to remove us from her house and call the cops if we take away her cigarettes."

It is MIL's choice to smoke. A poor one, but hers. If you take them away, yes, technically it is stealing.. but, just as you don't let a child play with matches, you aim to keep people safe.

For safety's sake;
New house rule: as a *harm minimisation* strategy
* Smoking is to outside only.
* Oxygen must be turned off first.

If MIL agrees, good.

Then ask her about her willingness to cut down or quit. If willing, make a Doctor appointment via telehealth to discuss. Withdrawal is awful & is best done with a plan to manage symptoms eg Nicotine patches if suitable.

However, if MIL refuses to smoke away from the O2 (It's MY house MY rules, tantrum etc) I would take the cigarettes away as an immediate safety measure. Let her call the Police if she wants.

If me, I would explain that if she decides to risk everyone's safety, this decision has consequences.

It would immediately null & void my offer to help. I would make 3 calls, to MIL's Doctor, to APS & emergency mental health crises assessment service. To explain that MIL is a danger to herself & others.

The issue of the house itself will have to wait. The smoking/O2/safety issue is the priority.

"Her house was owned by her husband's family and is jointly owned. The other party wants out and requested us to sell the house."

I would assume the other party is free to seek real estate & legal advice regarding selling. If they wish to sell, then MIL MUST sell or BUY the other party's share. Unless your DH is financial POA, you don't legally need to be involved in this.

It does seem MIL has a hefty amount of lack of insight or denial going on. About her safety, her health, her independence, her housing too.

What are her medical conditions? Is cognitive decline/dementia part of this?

I’m sorry for the mess your post has somewhat become. Please know your husband can resign as POA at any time. Please know you’re both free to move away at any time. The threats that you must provide care are just that, threats. The county she lives in is very accustomed to taking over the care of a senior in need, this is common nationwide. It may not feel good to take that step, but your sanity is valuable too

Do you have a teaching hospital any where near you? One that has departments of neurology and psychiatry?

Please try to get her chaptered under an Involuntary three party Mental Health Commitmrnt You will need to call the police and have her detained for a mental health commitment. Three people will need to write statements on why she is a danger to herself or others . Within 72 hours a mental health committmrnt hearing is held and she will be madder than a wet hen and earn a ticket to an inpatient mental health commitment . Your best friend will be documentation and be sure to start a paper trail at your local police station and call them any time she rages at you and refuses to stop smoking with oxygen
It wil be on official record then and you will be less likely to be blown off and more likely to get some action. Hopefully no guns in the house?

Prayers and very tough love…

So at present it must feel MIL holds the power here. Is allowed to enslave you & your DH.

This is not so.

But it may take some Tough Love with a capital T to change track.

"They released her to my husband's care and because no other placement exists here.

I get why you cannot simply reverse moving in, can't just up & leave - you have been told by APS you will be held responsible for neglect, correct? (Plus you DO want care for her to be in place)

Currently you both took on responsibility for MIL's care when you moved it. So you now have a 'Duty of Care'. This is what APS mean, why you can't up & go (unless others services are in place). But Duty of Care is not permanent, it can change, be transferred on! THIS is what needs to be reversed.

I see it like this: that taking on MIL's care WAS still your Husband's choice at the time. It must have absolutely felt like ZERO choice as no other solutions presented.. BUT it WAS his choice. He could have left the building. Said no further calls, I'm not willing to do it. The End. No-one can legally make him move in with her.

Sometimes it is our own thoughts that hold us prisioner.

Do you agree your DH did have a choice to caregive or not? To move in or not?

What if you both DIDN'T agree to move in?

Let me explain further.

What if he was... a long haul truck driver in Canada, an engineer in Dubai? Was terminally ill himself? Or mentally ill? Even in jail? What if he hadn't even been born?

MIL WOULD accept the home help service, or another solution would have been found (eg NH bed somewhere).

If MIL went home, said yes to services but threw them out, then what? This happens ALL the time.. either concerned relatives or neighbours call EMS or APS, the person dies in their home or the person calls EMS themselves.

Hospital Social Workers either send them home (to try again) or neuro-psych evals get forced upon them. If deemed cognitivly unfit, off to a care home they go. A legal Guardian may be appointed. If family cannot/will not, the State will.

Your DH has to have a big think now. To continue or stop.
He CAN stop.

What does he want to do?

PS Would you share this with him?

You have a very tough situation on your hands.

Seems to me the house should be sold asap so that MIL has to move out. She then can move to a smaller apartment in an Assisted Living community.

Do not ever move her into your home even temporarily because it might become permanent.

I really feel bad for you and your husband. You have a MIL from hell.

Don’t be bothered by postings that you don’t care for. Sometimes, people have a dry sense of humor.

You may not like someone’s taste in humor but there are many posters who are willing to hear you out.

Another alternative is to simply create a new post to describe your experience. Hopefully, no one will ask for it to be removed as a duplicate post.

I wish you all the best in resolving your issues with your mother in law.

Who is following MIL with Caldasil? Is she on any psychiatric meds for the usual mood disturbances that are part of this syndrome?

Why does APS say you must care for her?

Go see an Elder Law attorney, using her funds.

Is you husband her Power of Attorney, or her guardian?

I see she says she will have you all remived if you deny her cigarettes. I would do just that.

She is a danger to herself and others. That can and should be the basis to call 911 and have her teansported to the hospital. When that occurs, you leave and return to your home.

Didavis, I'm sorry to hear you were locked out. I was too; so were many others here.

What have you decided to do?

It seems unsustainable for your husband not to work and for you to give up your home to care for your abusive and seemingly mentally ill MIL.

But you can't change her. You can only control your own actions.

Have you consulted an Elder Law attorney or Adult Protective Services?

Have you considered taking her to the ER and leaving her there? The hospital will then be forced to find placenent and the state will assume guardianship.