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Are you asking to find out what PoA your brother has for someone? Or IF your brother assigned PoA to someone? Can you please clarify your question and provide a little more detail? Thx
It may vary, Hailey. Guardianships, if I am not mistaken, are granted by the court. Have to go into court to be conferred, and the elder can fight the guardianship, in fact will be given an attorney to fight it if they wish to (they may feel they are competent enough to do their own care). If the elder wins, and the person seeking guardianship does NOT win, then the person seeking guardianship will have to pay court and lawyer costs. If the person seeking it wins, the elder's funds can pay the court costs. In any case it is a COURT proceeding, and hence it is, yes, recorded. Always. However, a POA is conferred upon someone by your own choice when you are perfectly competent to do so. It need not be filed in California, but it may be if you want to give the state extra money. In fact you can full it from NOLO press or someone else and fill it out yourself (which I do NOT recommend, because the language should be specific to your needs). So at least in my state, no, a POA need never be recorded. I have often, as a nurse, seen emergency guardianship go into place the easy way. The Social Worker contacts a Judge and temporary guardianship is in place, this done so care can be rendered with someone in family in charge of decisions.
Gretta, the best way to find out is to ask your Brother. If your brother is unable to answer you because of dementia or illness, then someone certainly is handling his affairs, and that person very likely to be a person known to you or to other family members. What is it you are needing to know? That taxes are paid on property, or bills? Could you provide us with details of what questions you have regarding your brother's affairs? The POA is almost as private as your brother's own business if he has assigned someone to act for him when he is unable. If you were not knowledgeable about your brother's affairs when he was able to discuss with you, it will be difficult to be so now. Do you have specific things you need to know. For instance, has your brother suffered a sudden mishap that makes him unable to act in his own behalf and you are fearful as re his bills, rental, taxes or some other thing? It is looking as though you are new here, and have given us no details in profile to try to ferret out what your needs are in this issue.
You can’t just call the courthouse to obtain this type of information over the phone. And chances are the POA isn’t on file with the court because that’s very rare and most states don’t require it.
When I wanted to know who my BIL's guardian was, I called the courthouse where he was residing and they freely (no hassle) provided this information to me.
Even if the state is guardian, DSS will freely give you their name.
In my State, once you apply for POA with an attorney, it is advised to register it with the court.
The POA document should have been produced to the bank that holds the money, and they would normally take a copy of it. Same thing with shares. It might be worth asking the bank if a POA has been provided for the account. You can tell them why you are asking. They may not give details, but even knowing that one exists could be helpful. It would also make the bank double check that they have followed the rules, as otherwise they could be sued for allowing unauthorised withdrawals.
I didn't have to give a copy to the bank until I took over Moms accounts and wouldn't have had to do that because I was already on bank accts. Needed it to cash in CDs. Cashing in shares they wanted Medallon from the bank. Wouldn't except my POA.
If the OP is in the US then calling the bank is a waste of time. They will not discuss anything with her. They will not disclose any information about a POA to her. They will not tell her if one exists.
The only way you're going to get this information is to ask your brother. Even if you know the law firm he did his POA with they will not discuss it with you. The bank won't either.
Seems to me that there maybe a problem and OP needs to contact the person assigned POA. In this instance, I think a lawyer could tell OP, at least, that she isn't the POA. I really don't see why who the POA is such a secret. There comes a time when that info is needed. This may be that time. Agencies? If they have a POA on file they also have the POAs info. If the Agency cannot give out the name, OP can ask that the person be called and to get in touch with the person asking for the info.
With POAs being used more frequently, I think there needs to be stricter guidelines.
The assigned person is made aware of the assignment and signs off that they agree. They also get a copy of the POA. It is explained to them what their responsibility is and what it is not. Its explained to the principle too. That the POA onlt is a representative for them. Not their caregiver or to be at their beck and call. And both aware that they can revolk the responsibility at any time.
The POA is on file at the County Clerks office.
That those violating the principles trust, like stealing their money, can be prosecuted.
This is done in a Lawyers office. Which can be Legal aide or even a paralegal.
I really agree that POAs need to be registered. There are so many posts from people where someone else has claimed that they have a POA, but there is no evidence of it and money is disappearing.
One (rather drastic) thing that OP could do is to go to a lawyer and ask them to write a ‘frightener’ letter to claimed POA, saying that unless it is produced a guardianship application will be made, and the court will certainly investigate all the POA’s dealings.
You can agree all you want but registering POAs doesn’t need to be done in the US and it’s very rarely done here. Most states don’t even have a process for registering them 😉
Alva, the problem about requiring ‘evidence’ is that it turns a questioner into an investigator, prosecutor and judge. You virtually have to prove fraud before you report it, and the better the fraud, the less likely you are to find the evidence. Your arrangement with your brother was obviously appropriate, and presumably no-one wanted to question it. The problem comes when someone with a genuine stake in the matter thinks there is a suspicion or likelihood that things are not what is being claimed, that it ought to be questioned, but it is hidden behind a cloak of secrecy. It seems to be a side effect of the times – more elderly people with money who provide a juicy target for others.
And thanks Worried for pointing out the obvious, always helpful. How about the ‘frightener’ letter about guardianship? It can be cheap and effective.
I think a phone call to say "If this doesn't change; if I cannot be satisfied you aren't embezzling money, then I will go to court for Guardianship". I think anyone could find out quickly enough that a contested guardianship will cost likely 10,000 with the loser paying; often enough the court will take guardianship. My own personal view as a nurse of warring families fighting over the not dead yet elder has likely jaded me badly in this regard. I have seen way too much. I would think that Adult Protective Services would be best, saying I suspect fraud because.......................... Then let them investigate and reassure me that they do NOT see it, or if they do, suggest a way forward. I still think in most cases this is family messing with family in just the worst ways. As to Gretta's case, I would have no idea. The questioner hasn't been back, and didn't even really ask a question, nor respond to the many here questioning. Hopefully Gretta will come back. Of late, so few do.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
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APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Guardianships are filed at the courthouse but not POAs?
That is interesting.
However, a POA is conferred upon someone by your own choice when you are perfectly competent to do so. It need not be filed in California, but it may be if you want to give the state extra money. In fact you can full it from NOLO press or someone else and fill it out yourself (which I do NOT recommend, because the language should be specific to your needs). So at least in my state, no, a POA need never be recorded.
I have often, as a nurse, seen emergency guardianship go into place the easy way. The Social Worker contacts a Judge and temporary guardianship is in place, this done so care can be rendered with someone in family in charge of decisions.
Even if the state is guardian, DSS will freely give you their name.
In my State, once you apply for POA with an attorney, it is advised to register it with the court.
It is no secret.
Do you have valid reasons for wanting to know?
At least not where I am from.
With POAs being used more frequently, I think there needs to be stricter guidelines.
The assigned person is made aware of the assignment and signs off that they agree. They also get a copy of the POA. It is explained to them what their responsibility is and what it is not. Its explained to the principle too. That the POA onlt is a representative for them. Not their caregiver or to be at their beck and call. And both aware that they can revolk the responsibility at any time.
The POA is on file at the County Clerks office.
That those violating the principles trust, like stealing their money, can be prosecuted.
This is done in a Lawyers office. Which can be Legal aide or even a paralegal.
One (rather drastic) thing that OP could do is to go to a lawyer and ask them to write a ‘frightener’ letter to claimed POA, saying that unless it is produced a guardianship application will be made, and the court will certainly investigate all the POA’s dealings.
And thanks Worried for pointing out the obvious, always helpful. How about the ‘frightener’ letter about guardianship? It can be cheap and effective.