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My dad: Is 83On 12 different medications (takes AM and PM)Is stubborn but mentally competent. Has CHF, Kidney disease, diabetes, High BPSleeps late unless he has to be up for an appointment. Usually until 10:30 or 11:00.Will be living alone shortly, when his friend moves out. (I live 3 miles away)
I manage his medications – he admitted to me recently that he would never be able to keep all them straight. I manage his doctor visits. I do his bills for him and try to keep him on track.
One problem I have (not the only one) is that he doesn’t think it’s important to take his pills on time. Sometimes he takes his AM pills at 1:00!!! I only know this because his friend recently told me this. She told him it’s important to take early and at 12 hr intervals, but he doesn’t think it matters, so he takes him when he wants.
I put the pills in a daily AM/PM pill box for the week and they are sitting right by his chair in the living room. I tried calling him in the past and telling him to take them and he just gets frustrated and says he will take them and hangs up. But does he? I don’t know. I can’t be there. I work a full time job and I cannot quit.
But it’s the fact that he sleeps so late. He just doesn’t care anymore – at least that’s what I think, because he doesn’t express anything to me or really tell me what he wants from the rest of his life. I could ask him why this? or what does he think of that? He would just shrug his shoulders as if to say, “I don’t know or I don’t care.”
Even if I could be there at 9am to wake him, have breakfast, and make sure he takes his pills, he would say I was rushing him. At 83, he moves at his own pace – doesn’t like when people rush him.
It is so frustrating and I know I can’t force him to do anything. And having someone come in a couple hours in the AM would not sit well with him. It’s also an expense neither he can afford or myself.
I have an appt for him next week at a Senior Care Associates division of the hospital in our area, which is a team of geriatricians, nurse practitioners and social workers that provide consultations, comprehensive evaluations and recommendations for senior care. And also to evaluate physical, emotional, social and functional needs to assist planning for future.
Other than all I am doing, I really don’t know what else I can do to help him but keep my sanity – and my health intact.
Any advice - or just some words of encouragement?

First of all you do not pay for any of his care out of your pocket ever.
You also do not quit your job , nor do you move a stubborn man to live in your home .

That leaves , letting him to his own devices at home or assisted living where they will give him his medications . Hopefully he owns his home and it could be sold to pay for his care some day .

If he’s competent , nothing you can do about it . Is he on an antidepressant ? Maybe it would help . They also have pill boxes with a reminder alarm .

Hopefully you will get some answers at his assessment at Senior Care as to whether he should be living alone or not .
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Reply to waytomisery
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waytomisery Sep 2, 2024
I just read your profile . It says Dad has Alz/dementia . This will likely
make it impossible to get Dad to change his ways . He most likely should not be living alone . Start looking for assisted living facilities . Do you have POA? If so has it been invoked yet ?

If Dad ends up in the hospital , tell them he can no longer live alone and you can’t take care of him 24/7 , you work . You tell the social worker at the hospital he’s an “ unsafe discharge “ and can not go home . Have a few assisted living in mind so he could be transferred to there via ambulette service . It will have to be paid for out of pocket ( use Dad’s money ) but it’s better than taking Dad in the car and him refusing to get out of your car at assisted living .
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Have you told him that not taking his medications on time may kill him? What does he say to that? If he says that he doesn’t care, stop worrying about it. Your ‘sanity’ may improve if he ‘doesn’t want to help’, and he brings his life to a close.
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Reply to MargaretMcKen
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You stated both that dad is mentally competent, and in your profile, that he has dementia. If he has dementia, it’s time that he no longer be left on his own, whether he likes or wants that or not. He will need to be in a place to be handed his meds on a schedule or have helpers in his home to do so. If it’s not dementia, time for you to realize, dad isn’t changing. His habits are well established, he wants to sleep in and then do whatever he wants, minus outside influence. Inform his doctor that he’s not being compliant with his medications. Review if they’re all really needed, seniors can often pile up prescriptions and some may no longer be important. Or it could be if he’s not taking them according to prescribed schedule, the dosages need to be reassessed. In any case, he’s not listening to you on this, so don’t bug him about it anymore. Save yourself the hassle of trying to change the unchangeable.
.
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Reply to Daughterof1930
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He thinks he is living independently. He’s not. Because you’re running to his aid daily and taking care of everything.

He is not going to adapt or get better. You can’t do it all for him. He needs assisted living where his meds can be monitored and he can get on a more suitable schedule.

Do not quit your job. Do not pay for his expenses. Do not move in with him or let him move in with you.
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Reply to LoopyLoo
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Your Dad should not be incharge of his meds anymore.

I would ask his doctor how important is it for him to take his meds on time. From what I understand some meds do better overnight. Some not so much.
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Short of a reminder call several times a day when medication time is due, I can't imagine. Is there a way to set "Alexis" to keep badgering a senior to take his/her pills? It isn't so much a matter of unwillingness, as retention. I am in 80s and one DOES become more forgetful. My family member is decades younger with a bit of an anxiety disorder, and forgets pills as well. I guess that isn't "encouraging news", but the fact is we do the best we can. We all die. It is seldom for want of an on time pill or two.
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Slynn24, welcome to the forum. I remember when my Dad kept forgetting to take his pills. Even though he was still somewhat sharp for being in his 90's, he just wasn't focused on medication.


We tried putting up signs around his apartment, and even moving the signs to different locations as eventually one's brain will dismiss the signs if left in one place too long.


Since Dad was living in a senior living facility, I signed Dad up for what is called Med Tech which is a Staff member who gives Dad his pills (the pills are kept at the nurses' office), and the Staff member would come in twice a day. She would stand there until Dad took his medicine. It was an expensive option for Dad to pay but worth everyone's sanity.
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I too will question the fact that in your profile you say your dad has dementia, yet in your post you say that he's "mentally competent." You do know that he can't have dementia and be mentally competent right?
Your dad obviously shouldn't be living on his own anymore and needs to be in an assisted living facility where they will bring him his medications at the appropriate times.
And if money is an issue he'll have to apply for Medicaid.
But until you get all that figured out, I would talk with his doctors next week at his appointment, to see if he still has to take all of the medications that he's currently on. Perhaps they can cut down on some of them.
And you can ask just how important it is that he takes them at a certain time each day, as I'm guessing there is quite a bit of wiggle room there.
Your dad now needs more help than just with his medications, however if you're not his POA, you may have to wait for an "event" to happen before you can do anything about it.
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cover9339 Sep 3, 2024
One would think that, sometimes that may not be the case
At the facility depending on the LPN on duty, morning meds could be anywhere from 8:30-10am and nighttime 8, 9 or even 10. One time the meds were dispensed at 11:30PM
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If it works out, 9 and 5, similar to the song?
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An appointment with the Geriatrian team seems an excellent idea.

Should review all his healh concerns. A fresh look at where his health currently is.

From there..

Medication:
Review everything he takes?
Cut some out? Change doses?
Ask which meds are time-sensitive.

Social:
Discuss Dad will be living alone.
Will this be suitable? What services are available to help?
Or if not suitable, what then?

I would like to set up this kind of Geri team for a LO. As many conditions cannot be cured, we move towards aiming for Quality of Life.

In your Dad's case, dementia dx or not, he has many conditions that may be effecting his mental sharpness, kidney function may be a big one.
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Reply to Beatty
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I would take the list to the pharmacist and ask how goofy the schedule can be for each med. When my dad was in rehab, it was very common for him to get meds at 8am and then at 4pm, nothing close to the 12 hours apart we all believe to be most effective. However, drugs process through us differently and not ALL meds are problematic when taken 2x a day on an odd schedule. I found my pharmacist waaaaayyyyy more knowledgeable on this than any of the doctors I spoke with.

The missing part of the question is: when does he take his pm meds? That information will be needed to get good information.

Good luck with the new clinic.
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Beatty Sep 6, 2024
Very good points!
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Ask him to allow you to set an alarm clock for him. It will let him know that it is time to take his pills. He can always go back to sleep after he takes his medications.
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MissesJ Sep 8, 2024
She stated in the OP that she can call to remind him and he hangs up and still doesn’t take them. The issue really is that he has Alzheimers dementia and can’t be trained, bothered or guilted into any improvements in behaviors.
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It sounds like you are being as thoughtful and diligent as it is possible to be in this situation. You have received some good suggestions. But honestly, you simply may need to accept that you can't control it as much as you wish.

My dad's dementia progressed to the point that he couldn't deal with a pill box himself at all (mixed up day and night, couldn't remember what day it was, took two days' worth at the same time, etc.). So then he had his pills doled out to him on schedule by my mom, which he resented. He acted like and said that he was taking them, but then we discovered that he was often spitting them out and hiding them. When we asked about this, if he said anything at all, it was he "just forgot" or "it was an accident" or he didn't know how all those pills got in his sock drawer or whatever. That was around the same time he started hiding or throwing food too.

How is your dad's diet? Is he doing his laundry, making meals, washing up in the kitchen, changing his clothes and bathing regularly and brushing his teeth?

Apathy can be a symptom of dementia. Apathy means not caring or bothering. Just mentioning in case this is developing with your dad.

Good luck!
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Reply to Suzy23
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Similar situation for my wife. Her doctor did not think that a specific time or even an ocassional missed dose might be an issue. This is a good question for his medical team. Some ideas: We just changed an OTC item a gummie, and she loves them and take all recently. Read that some medications can be ground up and put into food like apple sauce. Separating pills into manageable swallows in 1oz cups might help. I remind her each time how to take them because she forgets and can come up with creative options. One time, she put all pills into her water glass, filled it up, and tried to drink them down leaving a gooey mess of partially disolved pills on the bottom. Story is my reminder to just do the best that we can, and it will be good enough.
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Reply to MikeinTexas
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Set alarms on his cell phone to go off the same time every day at his pill taking times.

Otherwise, understand that even in nursing home settings residents refuse pills all of the time. It is not uncommon.

Otherwise, hire caregivers that come in 3 hours in the morning(generally the minimum you can get them for). Have them remind him about his pills, get his breakfast and get him dressed.
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I pretty much do everything you do for my mom. Fortunately she does not have dementia but there were still challenges to get her to take her medications properly. It's a control thing. They've lost so much control over their lives that they cling to the one thing they can control, their medication. It wasn't until she was hospitalized for a broken hip that the hospital was able to take over giving out her meds at the proper times. Once she came home I was able to continue where the hospital left off in giving out her meds.

Does your dad have a Long Term Care insurance policy? If so, it sounds like he may qualify for this. My mom has a caregiver who doles out her meds and this has taken a lot of the pressure off of me. Plus he's become a companion for her during the day.
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Reply to MrsKitcat
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Dad needs to be in a care home where they will handle his meds. He may still refuse them. He has dementia, and you need to face the reality that neither you nor he is able to take care of him.

Today it's the pills, tomorrow it'll be personal hygiene or some other thing. Since he has dementia, he should stop driving.

I'm sorry, there comes a time when all your best efforts won't work anymore. You're there.
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MeDolly Sep 8, 2024
Well put!
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I set up an ‘Alexa’ for my dad. It is synced with my cell phone so although I live in a different state, I can have Alexa make announcements, reminders and routines. Morning and evening routines remind him to take his meds. I can have Alexa remind him about his doctor appointments. Additionally you can set up phone numbers in it so if my dad were to fall he could tell Alexa to call me and it makes the call over Wi-Fi no phone needed. Or he can call his doctors using it.
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First of all, CONGRATULATIONS on doing so much already for your dad. I know this isn't easy at all. I live(d) 2-1/2 blocks from my friend-companion in a nursing home, and there were many days I barely could get there (exhaustion). Caring for a loved one at this stage of their life (and declining) is a commitment of love and tenacity.

At 83, he is somewhat entitled to do as he wants - and you do your best to do what is necessary for his welfare.

* You are stretched (way) to thin now - caring for your dad as you do and (needing/) working full time. It is exhausting. Certainly acknowledge yourself for all you do - do. I send you a huge hug.

"It is so frustrating and I know I can’t force him to do anything."
Yes, that is very frustrating. Unless he is medically diagnosed to not be able to care for himself (dementia), he can do what he wants, legally.

I understand the expense involved which can be prohibitive.
- You mention a person living with him moving out. Is there a possibility of someone else moving in - to help him out. (Not caregiver in exchange for room and board-a live-in is considered an EMPLOYEE. It is very complicated).
- See if you can find a college student studying / getting credentialed / a master degree in Nursing, counseling, geriatric. Hopefully someone can be available for a couple of hours a day - this experience is helpful to them when they seek employment.
- See if he qualifies for Hospice (my friend did-supplemented the nursing home care although Hospice will not do 'anything' to keep him alive, they will provide comfort care only (and a person doesn't have to be terminal to get Hospice care).

"And having someone come in a couple hours in the AM would not sit well with him. It’s also an expense neither he can afford or myself."

- Change won't sit well with him. That is a given. He is likely scared, frustrated, perhaps confused/regardless of the / his needs.

You do what you have to do for his welfare as best you can. And, let your best be enough. It is. You are. ... Many of us do what we can and it often feels like there is so much more to do. There is. We need ACCEPT and be GRATEFUL for what we can do for a loved one. Burning yourself out won't help him.

Re medications. Is he forgetting or not wanting to take?
Do you know if he) Is he clinically depressed? on meds for depressions?
Have you asked him if he 'wants' to take his medication(s)?
- What does he say?
Does he know what might happen if he doesn't take meds as prescribed?
- What does he say?

* The Senior Care Assoc Div of the hospital in your area sounds incredible.
Good for you - finding them and utilizing whatever support they can provide.

I support you to take some time to yourself - between caring for your dad and working full time. Find a 1/2 hour or an hour each day for YOU (or more if you can) --- be it reading, meditating, taking a walk, going yoga. You need to take care of you.

Do you know if he qualifies for any govt' assistance?
See if you can find volunteer(s) in / through Church, networks, local associations relevant to his condition/medical needs, neighbors/networking.

Keep us updated on how you and your dad are doing.

Gena / Touch Matters
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Reply to TouchMatters
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You can buy a locking pill dispenser with audible alarms for each time he takes his meds. It won’t stop beeping until he opens the door and flips the container vertically. I got it for my husband so he could retain some independence. He can forget to take his meds and he can over medicate. I keep the key and refill it when necessary.

Live Fine 28-Day Automatic Pill... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KJHQR5V?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
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Reply to Jsaada5757
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It sounds as if your dad is digging his heels in about taking his meds and that you "nagging" him to do so could make him worse.
I'm not saying that you are nagging him - I know you're reminding him - but his reaction to you seems as if that's how he's taking it.

I would talk with him when it's nowhere near the time for taking meds and when he's in a good mood. Ask him what method he'd like as a reminder (think about some of the suggestions in the other comments here) and give him a sense of autonomy.

Try not to get too hung up on there not being 12 hours between the doses. He's taking them, and that's the main thing. If there are 8 hours between meds (lunchtime and nighttime) that's not ideal, but not too bad either.

You can't control everything, I'm afraid. Also, it will help your sanity to accept "better than nothing" rather than busting a gut through striving for perfection.
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Reply to MiaMoor
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Assisted living distributes medicines. It is very difficult keeping track of their medicines while they are living at home. I hope your dad doesn't dump the medicine out of his bottles or mixes up his pills too much. They should be in pill containers for morning, noon and night. Unfortunately, that doesn't always work either. Your dad needs a nurse to help manage his medicine. Assisted living will be good for your dad.
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Reply to Onlychild2024
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I have Alexa remind my dad to take his pills and insulin. I am his advocate and manage his medication and bills like you. he wants to be independent, but I have cameras in the kitchen and his TV room. We make a deal that in order for you to be independent. You have to take your pills, insulin and eat on time. If not, we have to explore Assisted Living options. I also have a caregiver. Come in three times a week for two hours to help with cleaning and cooking his meals. Alexa has been a great support as well. She drives them nuts sometimes but heck it’s a good reminder when he gets too involved in a TV show. hope this helps you with your situation
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CaringWifeAZ Sep 10, 2024
That is helpful advice.
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The only advice and encouragement I can offer you is to tell you to stop frustrating yourself trying to control what you can't control.

At 83, he has earned the right to live any way he wants to. And he's not going to be perfect. In fact, it seems he is purposely rebelling. Because nobody likes someone else telling them what to do.

Let him be.

Your sanity and your health do not need to be sacrificed trying to force him to conform.
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Reply to CaringWifeAZ
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If dad doesn't get up until then that is am. When does he go to bed?
His am is different from your am.
My room mate has an am at 10am or 11am and sometimes even 1pm and a bed time about 1 or 2 am and even sometimes 4am. My am is 5am and my bed time is 10pm so we differ a lot.
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Reply to Ohwow323
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My recommendation is to maybe set something up to remind him - the Alexa suggestion makes sense - and then let it be.

Probably hard to do since he has so many serious health issues. But unless you or someone else is going to put the pills down his throat, or dissolve them in whatever he drinks every day, there isn't much you can do when he refuses to take them.

My 97 year old mother takes one pill for her thyroid. Every morning I put it into her hand and on the days when she refuses to take it, that's fine with me. I'm not going to die on that hill.

Peace.
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Reply to southiebella
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If there is a 12 hour window in your dad’s awake time, then you should not worry as much… What’s important is that he takes his medication…Your dad’s am may be closer to noon time which may not align with your am which 7:00 or 8:00am. Getting an Alexa device as a reminder is also a good idea…do not set the alarm for 7am but closer to 11:00am

Its good to hear that there is an upcoming consultation/visit in a few weeks. That’s a great time to discuss the issues you face. Get dad’s permission to discuss these issues and be sure to include him in the discussion & planning. He still wants to be treated as an adult who has some capability to control his life.
hoping this is helpful.
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