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Get an itemized statement and look at the outrageous amount they charge for everything! I'm sure you will find a few charges added that did not happen. You could live in a seaside, all inclusive, room service apartment for what they charge and that's not exaggerating. I would make one attempt by calling the billing department to have the bill forgiven and that's it.
I'm surprised at the number of responses here and the various answers, some advocating negotiating with the hospital or setting up payment plans. The answer is very simple. There is no need to pay the hospital anything. Let them send to collections. Mom will be judgement proof. All of her money will need to go to the Nursing home, and please don't feel she has to pay the hospital out of that $50 left over every month, that $50 needs to go to her personal needs account
Right? All these people telling the OP to negotiate and set up a payment plan. Why? What a waste of time. There is no money to pay the bill. (Not even $50 a month, that money is for moms personal needs.)
Go in and negotiate what she can pay and let them know you have applied for Medicaid and if your application was in prior to the bill they will go back and honor that amount. Otherwise negotiate with the hospital what she can pay and she should be able to pay 5-10 dollars monthly. Go to benefits.gov and see if she qualifies for any of those benefits. There maybe a number to call that will direct you to your local state benefits for cases such as this. Call United Way maybe they can direct you to the proper source to help with this issue also.
You can’t be serious. Why waste time negotiating a bill when mom has NO money to pay it? There is nothing to negotiate here. she’s in LTC and medicaid will be footing the bill meaning OPs mom has NO money for bills.
I assume they are your Mothers medical bills? You have not signed something stating your taking responsibility for them? If it goes to collection and she only has $50 extra what are they going to get. Will they "settle" for $50? I assume you do not have $1200 to cover this?
I suggest ask the nursing home how these things get handled and the outcome for other patients. I assure you they deal with this all the time
There’s no reason to ask the nursing home how these things get handled. Once someone is in a nursing home on Medicaid their bills go unpaid. There is no money. And the person is judgement proof. The Op doesn’t need to do anything except perhaps notify whoever is sending the bill that they won’t be getting paid as mom is in a nursing home and has no money.
There is an old saying “You can’t get blood from a turnip”. If your mother has no income, she can’t make payments. If she has no assets, collections will have nothing to gain by pursuing this debt. Is the nursing home a long term, permanent residence or is she there for a limited amount of time? Your question can’t really be addressed without more information.
Can you set up a payment plan with them? Tell them she only has "x amount" of dollars left and that you can do a $5.00 a month payment plan. Contact an elder attorney or senior aging office, they might have some ideas or contacts. Have you applied for Medicaid for your mother yet? I am not sure if collections can do anything anyhow since she don't have much left. I wish you luck. maybe others have more to offer in advice.
In Ohio, Medicaid is retroactive. Her hospital bill may be covered by Medicaid. You should be able to speak to your mother’s social worker for assistance at the nursing home.
The nursing system in this country has failed because it is not based on care, but greed, avarice. For a nursing home, like a hospital, the more money they can charge and make the better. In New York, since about the year 2013, the Cuomo dynasty has allowed nursing homes to take and sell a resident's property, if he does not have anyone else around, and sell it for a profit " to cover the expenses of the resident ". It is all bull. The system stinks and it is protected by loud politicians that only scream loud, but do nothing for the average citizen. If your mom did not have any " assets " like a house or whatever that might be worth taking for a nursing home then do not worry. They cannot harm you. They are a disgusting breed in the United States. The motto that says that they do what they do because they love their careers and their fellow man makes me laugh. I lost my grandmother at a nursing home at the hands of very insensitive people who put her in a room with no heat, despite my complaints and my attempts to bring an electric heater to her. She eventually got chest congested. Their own radiologist did a chest X ray and found pneumonia in her lungs and told them to do follow up care. They did not. They did not even tell us or make an attempt to call 911 and send her to a hospital. The health care system stinks in this country. The take home message for all who are reading this is that you cannot depend on someone else to take care of a loved one in your family. If you ever make the mistake of trusting someone else who is not part of your family you will regret it for the rest of your life.
wow, sorry to hear that, you might have enough to sue but it won't bring your mother back. I don't know where you live, but where my father was they were very good. I guess some are good and others are not. Not everyone has the patience, skill, time, etc to take care of their loved ones at home and have no other choice but to place them. Again sorry for your loss.
I'm assuming that the $1200 is her Balance after Medicare has paid their part. Have you applied for medicaid for her? You can try that to see if she qualifies. If she doesn't, try contacting the the company where she owes this money and let them know her situation.
When I helped my dad with this, I was advised to notify each provider if the medicaid pending status. Once that was done the debt was frozen. Once the medicaid application was decided, I had to call them all again to work out details. The moment I called them (or somehow they knew) all went to collection. That meant that I had to call collections companies too who required documentation of my power of attorney which was faxed to each. In his case, he had a community spouse. Some bills (within three months of application were forgiven, others from before weren't. I set up a payment plan of tiny amounts per month; as long as something is coming in.....eventually, the remnants were forgiven.
Let it go to collection. The settlement at that time would be much less. Right now they aren't going to offer a settlement she can afford. At such time you get contacted by collection company, you can tell them she has no money other than $50 per month and see what they offer as settlement. Pay or not at that time. You can tell them she's in nursing home.
But adult child is not responsible for debts. Once it goes to collection, it's against mom's estate, right? It does sound like OP should contact an elder law attorney.
It was my understanding that even small payments made regularly were acceptable. I would consult with certified elder law attorney to see who is liable for what, and if you or your mom are, see if you qualify for any programs to help those of low income. You also might want to check out the latest issue of Consumer Reports which had an article on paying high medical bills. Here's something that will make you feel a little better maybe: I have a bill for the helicopter service that took me to the hospital for $47,000!
I would ignore them. Don't stress yourself over it. They are your mom's medical bills and she doesn't have the money to pay them. Unless you're hiding a big pile of your mom's cash, it is the hospital's problem. Exploring possibilities for willing payers is the billing department's due diligence. Help them check the box and move on by sending them an email or letter clearly stating that you are not responsible for your mother's debts.
You are not responsible for your Mother's debts. However, if she has any property in her name they can take that - a house, bank accounts, stocks, etc. . There is a 5 year look back on assets so they could recover that way if they can trace where money from a house sale went. (or they could deny medicaid based on it). If she has no assets then there is nothing they can do. Just ignore, or return any letters unopened and mark" moved" with nursing home as forwarding address or as suggested send certified letter stating your are not responsible and update her address to nursing home.
They cannot take a house, even a bank account. The most that a creditor can do is go to court for collections, get a lien on a home, get a judgement, and then try to collect on that judgement. It would never be worth their time in doing that for this amount. This will be written off, given to collectors who hope to collect pennies on the dollar by annoying phone calls, and in some amount of years completely disappear.
They can't take what she doesn't have. They may try to get it from you. If they do, just ignore them. I would suggest that you send the billing department a certified letter saying you aren't responsible for your mother's debt. Then they aren't allowed to contact you. Mom has no money so they can't touch her.
Contact the hospital's senior services center. They may be able to help you. Most hospitals have a financial aid department that can and will remove remaining debt, senior services/assistance department can help streamline the process for you, especially since she is Medicaid pending in a care facility. Make it clear that you are not financially responsible for her bills and can not pay for them. Collections department goals are to clear the books and get what they can, threatening going to collection agency etc, not to give you information on what options for assistance that are available to your LO. If they do send bill to collection agency get person's name, call back number, and company name and address, before discussing anything. After you have this information, tell them she does not live with you and you are not responsible for her bills, please stop all calls, that if it continues you will report them (there is a penalty if they continue to do so) sit down and write a letter to the company date, time, person who you spoke to also informing them of cease and desist, keep exact copy of letter for your files. Mail letter return reciept, preferably with a signature of reciept also for your files. If they continue to call and harass you, report them to local states attorney office. Good luck to you.
Is she not on Medicare? Even if she is in a nursing home, if she is over 65, she should also have Medicare which will pay the "medical" portion of her bills, such as medications and physician visits. The medical bills should be submitted to Medicare. This is what was done when my father was in a nursing home.
You don't pay. Just tell them (in writing) that your mother is in a nursing home on medicaid. BUT, even if she wasn't you are not responsible (legally or morally) for your mother's debts including medical debts.
If she’s applied for LTC NH Medicaid she’s had to become impoverished in order to be eligible. She has no $ except perhaps for $ 2k as a nonexempt asset and whatever she doesn’t spend from the whopping $50 a mo PNA (personal needs allowance). She basically has no $. She’s judgement proof. Let it all turn over to collections.
The only things I’d be concerned about is IF you somehow ever signed off on any of these accounts as financially responsible OR the debt collectors get you to agree to pay your moms debts. They are real bottom feeders and will be relentless in trying to nail you or really anyone to take on “ownership / responsibility” for her debts. If they have your address, or phone # expect to be harrrassed on this. Daily too. You’ve imho got to develop a thick skin to withstand this. Or you need to be able to go all proactive pittbullie bad witch with them & send them certified 30 day demand proof letters & if you’re clever wicked & bored you play with them on the phone...
Realize the OC aka the original creditor like the hospital or MD office have debts pretty much automatically going to a primary debt collection outfit after 6-9 months; that primary debt guy then sells for pennies to a secondary debt collector in another 3-6 mos; then them to yet another even lower bottom feeder. Like I wrote you gotta develop a thick skin on ignoring all this. It’s not your debt, ain’t nothing they can do to you but threaten.
Downsize will be if the OC writes off the debt and includes it in their business tax filing. IRS rules are if it’s over $600 loss that a 1099-c Cancellation of debt is done. Smaller biz might not do this. But bigger ones do 1099-c automatically on all debt written off. If mom gets one it will come to her for 2020 taxes filed by Jan. 31, 2021. So you kinda need to be on the lookout Jan-Feb for it at whatever address the OC would have for your mom. Personally I would NOT have moms address as the NH; what’s a good alternative is for you to open up a mail box at a UPS store or some other shipping store that rents mail boxes. You open it up as they need a driver’s license but it’s for you & mom and mom has this a her new address for everything. It’s nice as it does help keep all things mom separate from you & yours. You go once a week, twice a mo & pick mail up. Become pals with owner & they will call you if something interesting comes in too.
Why is this important? Well the $ amount in the 1099-C technically is income to mom. In a way it’s phantom income but income nevertheless. So 2 issues, there’s taxes owed to IRS on the “income” AND if Medicaid in your state does a match up with IRS, mom is going to appear to have way way more “income” than actuality so over Medicaid income limits. There’s tax filing you can as DPOA do to get thru both of these, so if she gets 1099-C come Jan or Feb do a new post, ok.
Also often debt collector threaten with they will too file a 1099-c. They cannot. Only OC / original creditor can do 1099 cancellation of debt.
“go all proactive pittbullie bad witch with them & send them certified 30 day demand proof letters & if you’re clever wicked & bored you play with them on the phone...”
what does this even mean? Some of the worst advice I’ve ever read on here. SMH with this one.
If she’s applied for Medicaid then they will back-pay up to 3 months of medical bills. If all her income is going to the nursing home then she’s judgement proof and her bills will have to go unpaid. You don’t have to worry about paying them—she doesn’t have the money and debt collectors can’t come after her.
However, if any of the providers her mom should see in that 3 month window does not participate in Medicaid, their bills won’t get paid by Medicaid. And for even more fun in all this, if her mom has / had a secondary insurance that paid any of her bills during her “Pending period”, once she becomes Medicaid eligible with retroactive payments possible, her old secondary insurance can do a clawback on all payments paid during “Pending”.
I had this with my mom. It was a semihot mess that ran basically for abt over a year to get over. Mom had super good FEHIB Blue Cross, basically zero copay & very low premium from her federal annuity. She went into NH #1 with Medicaid eligibility letter sent not quite 5 1/2 mos later. So for 5+ mos, that BCBS was still in force & $ taken from her annuity for its premium. I did send NH a letter as to FEHIB was being suspended in tandem with Medicaid filing. However NH #1 had some PTs as outside contractors; & they billed to & were paid by BCBS. NH also billed some in-house services to BCBS too. BCBS did clawback on everything paid once mom became Medicaid eligible. NH #1 rebilled to Medicaid but 2 freelance PTs were stuck as neither participated in Medicaid. Why a PT working at a NH with Medicaid beds would not be a Medicaid vendor is beyond me.... but that’s a whole other issue. Anyways PT1 noticed maybe 8 -9 mos in and billed my mom directly (same as he billed BC). By this time, mom had very little $ in assets left, the premium repay had been basically spent. I offered to pay over time from her assets, but he was like just NM and was already at another NH. Then Mom moved to much much better NH #2 abt mo 11. Abt yr later, another PT sends mom a bill for his old PT services at NH#1; again I offered to pay over time from Her $.....he threatened collections, called a bunch of times but did nothing. After the PT #1 issue, I called BCBS and basically was told PT could have appealed clawback and BC would likely have paid but it had to be done by the provider in a timely manner. My mom only could dispute a bill submitted by a vendor. Clawbacks & adjustments to payments and rebilling another insurance are really common. Doesn’t make it any mess confusing tho’.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
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APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
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I suggest ask the nursing home how these things get handled and the outcome for other patients. I assure you they deal with this all the time
I do not think hat they can kick her out, even if you let the bills go.
If she dies, you are not responsible for her medical or health care bills.
Exploring possibilities for willing payers is the billing department's due diligence. Help them check the box and move on by sending them an email or letter clearly stating that you are not responsible for your mother's debts.
If they do send bill to collection agency get person's name, call back number, and company name and address, before discussing anything. After you have this information, tell them she does not live with you and you are not responsible for her bills, please stop all calls, that if it continues you will report them (there is a penalty if they continue to do so) sit down and write a letter to the company date, time, person who you spoke to also informing them of cease and desist, keep exact copy of letter for your files. Mail letter return reciept, preferably with a signature of reciept also for your files. If they continue to call and harass you, report them to local states attorney office. Good luck to you.
If she’s applied for LTC NH Medicaid she’s had to become impoverished in order to be eligible. She has no $ except perhaps for $ 2k as a nonexempt asset and whatever she doesn’t spend from the whopping $50 a mo PNA (personal needs allowance). She basically has no $. She’s judgement proof. Let it all turn over to collections.
The only things I’d be concerned about is IF you somehow ever signed off on any of these accounts as financially responsible
OR
the debt collectors get you to agree to pay your moms debts. They are real bottom feeders and will be relentless in trying to nail you or really anyone to take on “ownership / responsibility” for her debts. If they have your address, or phone # expect to be harrrassed on this. Daily too. You’ve imho got to develop a thick skin to withstand this. Or you need to be able to go all proactive pittbullie bad witch with them & send them certified 30 day demand proof letters & if you’re clever wicked & bored you play with them on the phone...
Realize the OC aka the original creditor like the hospital or MD office have debts pretty much automatically going to a primary debt collection outfit after 6-9 months; that primary debt guy then sells for pennies to a secondary debt collector in another 3-6 mos; then them to yet another even lower bottom feeder. Like I wrote you gotta develop a thick skin on ignoring all this. It’s not your debt, ain’t nothing they can do to you but threaten.
Downsize will be if the OC writes off the debt and includes it in their business tax filing. IRS rules are if it’s over $600 loss that a 1099-c Cancellation of debt is done. Smaller biz might not do this. But bigger ones do 1099-c automatically on all debt written off. If mom gets one it will come to her for 2020 taxes filed by Jan. 31, 2021. So you kinda need to be on the lookout Jan-Feb for it at whatever address the OC would have for your mom. Personally I would NOT have moms address as the NH; what’s a good alternative is for you to open up a mail box at a UPS store or some other shipping store that rents mail boxes. You open it up as they need a driver’s license but it’s for you & mom and mom has this a her new address for everything. It’s nice as it does help keep all things mom separate from you & yours. You go once a week, twice a mo & pick mail up. Become pals with owner & they will call you if something interesting comes in too.
Why is this important? Well the $ amount in the 1099-C technically is income to mom. In a way it’s phantom income but income nevertheless. So 2 issues, there’s taxes owed to IRS on the “income” AND if Medicaid in your state does a match up with IRS, mom is going to appear to have way way more “income” than actuality so over Medicaid income limits. There’s tax filing you can as DPOA do to get thru both of these, so if she gets 1099-C come Jan or Feb do a new post, ok.
Also often debt collector threaten with they will too file a 1099-c. They cannot. Only OC / original creditor can do 1099 cancellation of debt.
what does this even mean? Some of the worst advice I’ve ever read on here. SMH with this one.
However, if any of the providers her mom should see in that 3 month window does not participate in Medicaid, their bills won’t get paid by Medicaid. And for even more fun in all this, if her mom has / had a secondary insurance that paid any of her bills during her “Pending period”, once she becomes Medicaid eligible with retroactive payments possible, her old secondary insurance can do a clawback on all payments paid during “Pending”.
I had this with my mom. It was a semihot mess that ran basically for abt over a year to get over. Mom had super good FEHIB Blue Cross, basically zero copay & very low premium from her federal annuity. She went into NH #1 with Medicaid eligibility letter sent not quite 5 1/2 mos later. So for 5+ mos, that BCBS was still in force & $ taken from her annuity for its premium. I did send NH a letter as to FEHIB was being suspended in tandem with Medicaid filing. However NH #1 had some PTs as outside contractors; & they billed to & were paid by BCBS. NH also billed some in-house services to BCBS too. BCBS did clawback on everything paid once mom became Medicaid eligible. NH #1 rebilled to Medicaid but 2 freelance PTs were stuck as neither participated in Medicaid. Why a PT working at a NH with Medicaid beds would not be a Medicaid vendor is beyond me.... but that’s a whole other issue. Anyways PT1 noticed maybe 8 -9 mos in and billed my mom directly (same as he billed BC). By this time, mom had very little $ in assets left, the premium repay had been basically spent. I offered to pay over time from her assets, but he was like just NM and was already at another NH. Then Mom moved to much much better NH #2 abt mo 11. Abt yr later, another PT sends mom a bill for his old PT services at NH#1; again I offered to pay over time from Her $.....he threatened collections, called a bunch of times but did nothing. After the PT #1 issue, I called BCBS and basically was told PT could have appealed clawback and BC would likely have paid but it had to be done by the provider in a timely manner. My mom only could dispute a bill submitted by a vendor. Clawbacks & adjustments to payments and rebilling another insurance are really common. Doesn’t make it any mess confusing tho’.