Backstory: me and my SO live in a single family home that was gifted to him by his grandmother when she passed away although there was no will, it was just openly known in their small family whom would get the house. When his grandma passed away his mother was in charge of delegating the trust but never officially transferred the deed over because my SO was 19 at the time and didn’t have the funds to pay the related fees. Meaning our house is in her name. Plus, their house is in both of their names (mil & fil). The houses are right next door to each other if that matters.
Recently, my fil was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. They found it in his hip bone and lung but are still looking for where it originated from. Since his diagnosis his overall health has deteriorated rather quickly, he has had to have a hip replacement and stopped working completely. Since then he has heavily relied on Medicaid to receive any medical care. The entire situation has taken a heavy emotional and physical toll on him (and he hasn’t even had the cancer treatment yet), he says he just wants to relax for what’s left of his life. He says he’s done with responsibilities or paying bills, he just wants to hand everything over to us and let us take over. Now we are not rich or even well off but this is something we could make work for them but under certain circumstances. Initially we were planning to just help them pay their bills and stay afloat but that has taken a toll on us and our savings. We think it makes most financial sense for us to sell both properties and move
into one big house to consolidate all bills. Neither of our houses are big enough to fit all the animals, adults, and a newborn. Since starting the process we’ve realized that if we just flat out sell the properties it would affect his health insurance because the money earned from the sale would count as income. (Which would be way over the Medicaid minimum). We’ve thought about just adding him to our insurance to proceed but are afraid we won’t be able to give him everything he needs, meet crazy deductibles, and high copays under my SOs crappy insurance offered by his company. I don’t know if my SO becoming their POA would be beneficial in this situation or if there is a better way to go about this. I don’t know if this matters but we would use the majority of it for a down payment on a new home but we would like to use approximately 200,000 on debt/back logged bills of theirs.
I’ll put my main questions down here to make it more clear!
is there anyway to sell the houses without affecting his health insurance (Medicaid)?
would him becoming their POA be beneficial in this situation?
plus, any other advice or mentorship you have to offer would be greatly appreciated.
An attorney specializing in elder estate law / trust matters
An attorney specializing in real estate matters / probate.
This could be the same person.
Do not solely rely on others' advice here as it (could be) is different state to state, and individual circumstances. Still others' experience is valuable to give you something to think about. If it were me, I'd hire an attorney asap.
Gena / Touch Matters
So he’s on Medicaid, right? Which Medicaid program(s) have been providing services for him? This is super important bc some Medicaid programs for those over age 55 are required to do an attempt to recovery all costs paid. Not just costs in a NH but all costs for any services done by Medicaid that are community based or are paid for by waivers from the LTC Medicaid funds.
So while you are waiting to go the appointment, find out exactly what programs have paid for services and if your State does MERP aka Medicaid Estate Recovery for those who have been on community based Medicaid. It’s kinda about 50% who do. Because if so for your State, that will be a whole other issue for the attorney to deal with in this clusterF on titles.
Unless the tax assessor bill for the house has you and hubs name on it, that house was never ever gifted to you. How exactly does the tax assessor bill read? Because that is who is the erstwhile owner. Get a copy of the chain of title records for may be the last 6 actions on the property from the courthouse to take to the attorney. If the property they live at was also owned by her parents do the same for those.
The attorneys are going to want these, so you can do it for less costs or they will do it and their professional fees as well as their paralegals fees to get these.
Regarding becoming their POA, normally that is the role that adult children take on to help their aging parents. But taking this on for parent who has been irresponsible legally and financially poses problems. POA has the requirement to do “fiduciary duty” and that’s really hard to do if the elder has been real irresponsible with their assets and will not allow a full accounting for actions they did or didn’t do and will not go along with things that need to be done. You know your MIL best is she going to finally be sensible?
Imho that excuse that MIL gives as to she didn’t do things bc he was 19 is a load of crap as 18 is legal age and she could have done it and continue as Executor or as Trustee to pay the costs on property on his behalf as the beneficiary till your hubs finally had a job to assume property costs. It’s done all the time for those who die and leave assets in a Testamentary Trust or a predeath Trusts for a minor or a timed out by age beneficiary
Is there any possibility that MIL is keeping information from you all?
I would also say that you need to look at an option that works long-term: after dad is completed with his medical treatments (and maybe has passed), living with/without your SO's parents in the next 10 years, etc.
Based on my experience (I am not an attorney and I don't know other states) I would suggest his mother sign over the house you live in to your SO since that’s the plan anyway and she isn’t the one facing medical issues at the moment. That’s assuming she isn’t on or planning to apply for Medicaid soon, if she is the ramifications of that need to be explained by an attorney and weighed out.
You are at the beginning of a long road ahead and it’s smart of you to start researching now in an attempt to lay the groundwork for later so again based on my experience I’m going to caution you on some of the things you are thinking and already doing. I don’t know the age of your in-laws or their situation beyond the cancer diagnosis so there are bound to be considerations I’m not privy to but I sure wouldn’t move everyone into the same house. You have the ideal set up at the moment as far as I’m concerned living next door. Your in-laws have their independence and your young family has theirs as well but no one has to travel far to help each other. If your in-laws need assistance they are likely to qualify for more if living on their own and your family needs to maintain their own financial independence. It sounds like helping out is going to be inevitable but your SO completely supporting his parents as well as his own family is not a smart or fair thing to do. Their assets should be supporting them not his and they should be living as much within their means as possible. I urge you to keep your family finances as separate as possible and keep a tally along with receipts for anything you do spend out of your pockets on taking care of them in case it’s helpful at some point (it may be).
I commend you and your SO for being willing to devote all you seem to be to caring for his parents but don’t loose yourselves in the process, it’s a hard balance but setting your own boundaries (like not moving into the same house or tying all of your finances together) and maintains constant open communication with each other will help a lot. Think about what you would want your child to do in 25-30 years if one of you were faced with such a diagnosis.
Again however the players here need to consult with an estate/elder care attorney fluent in Medicaid, perhaps they already have one they trust who handled grandmothers estate?
Where are you located? What state?
good luck
A lot of the laws and rules you need to deal with vary by state, this forum covers may states and even overseas. You may get a lot of incorrect, but well meaning advice here.
Because this is an inheritance to your MIL it may not be community property. I would encourage you to go to www.nelf.org and find a CELA (certified elder law attorney) in your area to help navigate the best solution to this problem.
It sounds like FIL is not on long term care medicaid, just the insurance and that makes a huge difference in what can be done financially. This is NOT a do it yourself situation and trying to do it yourself could cause you to muck it up to great detriment for yourselves. Please seek legal advice and assistance to navigate this.
Your SO's parents need Assisted Living, and you are not fully aware of all that entails. Unfortunately, the two of you plus your baby may end up homeless because things were not done correctly years ago.
As others have said, you need a lawyer.
If you aren’t married, these people aren’t your in-laws.
Sorry to be so blunt and of course it’s none of my business but I hate to see someone waste years of her life without a commitment.
My guess would be when they got on Medicaid they didn't even list your house as an asset. Not out of fraud reasons, but because everyone thought of it as yours. Eventually Medicaid would have discovered it via county records and they would be owing lots of $$ to the state. While living or after they die through probate. And you'd need probate to distribute assets after death.
The primary home where they live now is different story. It is not counted against them when applying for Medicaid. They could sell and use that money to purchase the bigger home. Put it in their name and talk to atty about setting up transfer on death deed so that the house passes to you/so upon both of their death. Atty can help because he knows how that works in your state.
What’s okay about that? It isn’t “the govt” paying. It’s you and me and your friends and neighbors. My mom is paying for her care with the sale of her home. Why can’t these folks do the same?
up when you discuss with a lawyer. Sorry if I missed any key points.
First, the house you live in. I don’t call it your house because it’s not, ownership wise, by what you describe. The gifting is nice, and clearly everyone is OK with you living there, but seems it never happened officially. The house is in your MIL’s name….so it is her house.
So then, the question is what happens to your FIL’s Medicaid eligibility when your mother-in-law sells, or gives to you, either the house you live in, or the house she jointly owns with your father, or both. Selling or gifting the jointly owned house seems pretty clear— that’s his asset so it would be expected to count for Medicaid five year look back. As for the house you live in, as I understand it in a few states (community property) your father-in-law automatically owns 50% of the property and assets acquired during the marriage. Most states don’t do this, but it will be critically important. That aside, any sale of this house becomes a question of to what extent your MIL’s assets count for your FIL. And for that you need a lawyer.
The second issue is that of your parents being added to your SO’s insurance. Have you really looked into whether this is possible? Just claiming a parent as a federal income tax dependent (which itself has restrictions) doesn’t mean you can add them on your insurance. It seems to depend very strongly on the plan and the answer usually is “no” or “only if they are destitute and/or not covered by medicare etc.
My two cents, lawyer is a must but some considerations ahead of time. Sorry to hear about the challenges you are facing with FIL’s health.
Also, if you are not married to your SO, please note that "Common law" marriages aren't a legal thing. You should research what this means for you. Only bringing this up because you don't refer to your "spouse", so I'm thinking you're not married. Many a woman has posted on this forum and found out the hard way (after 25 and 30 years) that their relationship provided no financial protection or benefits.
Finally, what about your SO's Mom? How old is she? If she is nearing retirement age, her assets should not all be plowed into real estate because it isn't liquid enough. What will she retire on? She may need more cash than just her SS. She should talk to a financial or estate planner.
Regardless of the house and money situation, your parents should assign someone as their PoA, create a Advance Healthcare Directive, POLST (his sick Dad should definitely do this one) and legitimate Last Will.
It may be a good idea for the Mom to consult a Medicaid Planner for their state. I cannot stress enough that paying for consults with actual professionals will save you in the long run.
Instead it's like having a baby but instead of being excited when they take there first steps. You are now watching your loved ones take there last.
There is no stress like it unless your country is in a war. And it changes you, changes your relationship ship, changes your children. And if we are lucky we come out of this war with are head still attached
You need an attorney yesterday. Call one today for an appointment.
You will be well served consulting with an eldercare lawyer with expertise in Medicaid before doing anything.
But I do want to ask you, if you all move in together, are you and your SO prepared for a long hall of caregiving?
Your fil is just going to get worse and worse
Then you have your mil, you didn't mention if she does or doesn't have health issues, or your inlaws age.
This could become 10 + years of hardship on you, your relationship, and I'm not sure if you have children,
It will change your whole life, your peace, your private time.
My dad passed 4 years ago. I'm on year 4 of going to moms 3 or 4 days a week, endless doctors appointments. The problems never stop now. One week it's her back, next it's her legs swelling, next it's her blood work was bad, next it's a sinus infection. Last week guess what it's back to her Back issues, it is a never ending cycle.
Do you know anything about dementia?
My advice is don't do it! Don't make my and many others peoples mistake, thinking this is just going to be fine.
If I was you two, I'd say stop paying your inlaws bills, save your money and move far away.
Sorry if that was a bit to strong, I'm having a bad week with mom. But I would of said the same thing, just would of sugar coated it more.
Best of luck , I hope others can answer your Medicaid question.
My advice is to contact a lawyer specializing in medicaid, etc and have everyone go t see this lawyer regarding all of this. Mom not having transferred the deed over may be a BIG problem with medicaid look back and you and your SO my be SOL when it comes to being able to keep that house. Also please do not pay any of the inlaws bills with your money.
If the houses are still in the inlaws names then selling them would be an issue for medicaid and you and your SO will likely get screwed over in this process. Please contact a lawyer ASAP.