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By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
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V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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Mostly Independent
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How long can someone survive on 10 L of oxygen 24/7? Patient is bed bound. Cannot speak without a pause between each word. Only sits up for meals. Does not use a toilet. Receives bed baths.
She is on hospice. The RN says they usually can remove a person with COPD from hospice because they stabilize. This is the answer I get when I ask. She has been in hospice since January because she refuses to go back to a hospital if vitals are not good. She is in an assisted living facility
I'm hoping this person is now under hospice care(and if not they need to be ASAP), so I would ask the hospice nurse or doctor what they think at this point. My late husband who was bedridden was on oxygen for the last 22 months of his life and was under hospice care the entire time. As only the Good Lord knows the day and time that He will call your loved one Home, I will say to just enjoy whatever time you may have left with them and leave nothing left unsaid. God bless you.
Thank you. Yes she is on hospice. Recently they had to set the oxygen to 10 because of a drop in her saturation to 75%. Now it seems to be consistent at high 80s low 90s. I know we can’t say for sure the time will come. It’s just awful to know she is basically lying in bed waiting to die. Literally every move is exhausting to her . She cannot speak well because it wears her out. No longer goes to enjoy meals with friends in The dining area of her assisted living facility. She Will not move. And at this point I don’t know that she could. We have invited her multiple times to move in with us. She doesn’t want to be a “burden “ no matter how many times we tell her she isn’t.
I worked with hospitalized patients on hospice care for decades (hospital respiratory therapist) Increased oxygen is actually a step up in care. Most hospice doctors keep the patient comfortable, some with increased sedation. Sas are not in control and there is not much more she can receive here. If she feels it and difficulty speaking in full sentences, then this is a symptom of discomfort. Talk to the hospice doctor ASAP. She now needs more sedation. When settled, the sat monitor needs to be stopped. It appears that this assisted living is practicing a rule of rescue which is opposite to a rule of comfort. The patient is not getting comfort care as you describe. My experience which is backed up in the medical literature is to greatly reduce the flow or remove it once the symptom of dyspnea is in control and to stop looking at the damn sats. Plus the problem with ALs is the staff cannot handle the amount of opiates that can be potentially ordered. LPNs may not be able to round as much to assess sedation and it may not be in a med tecs scope of practice. Does the AL have 24/7 nurses or are they on call at night? If this is the case then she needs to be transfered to a hospice facility. Convey this information about staffing to the hospice doctor.
BTW most ALs and SNFs do not have piped in oxygen. If she is on an oxygen concentrator then 10 L may not be at 100% oxygen but maybe 50%. This is far beyond the comprehension of aides and even LPN schooling to understand how a concentrator works. Concentrators work best a 4 liters then the delivery can be past the working capabilities. If she was in a hospital ready for discharge on a 10 liter concentrator, the discharge would not happen
It is very unusual practice in the case of COPD for O2 to be administered in this amount. Generally more than 2-4L is never administered. It is of no use, often, to the patient over this amount, and sometimes hard to handle. The lungs, in COPD are injured to the extent that they cannot accept nor handle this level of O2 often enough, the alveoli being incapable to handling ultimately this level of O2. I hope that an MD is entrusted to supervise if this amount of O2 is being given.
I recommend this short film on youtube to understand a bit more about oxygen and O2 administration. I tried to do a copy/paste and couldn't seem to get it to "take" here, but if you go to youtube and type in "oxygen administration and COPD" if should show up for you.
Your loved one is in end of life care now and the goal is comfort. She will not have the wish to speak or move or even eat now, as everything she has is dedicated simply to draw another breath. Be certain the good medications are on board, even if they hasten death by some minutes, hours or even days. There is no sense now to suffer. I am so sorry for this. I wish peace for your family in this hard time. This is a crucible to witness.
I would ask to discuss with the Hospice MD. He/she will know what is best for comfort of your loved one.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I will my neighbor survived about a year, but he was still getting up and letting his dogs out and stuff .
He was a very strong willed man.
I'm sorry. 🙏
My late husband who was bedridden was on oxygen for the last 22 months of his life and was under hospice care the entire time.
As only the Good Lord knows the day and time that He will call your loved one Home, I will say to just enjoy whatever time you may have left with them and leave nothing left unsaid.
God bless you.
BTW most ALs and SNFs do not have piped in oxygen. If she is on an oxygen concentrator then 10 L may not be at 100% oxygen but maybe 50%. This is far beyond the comprehension of aides and even LPN schooling to understand how a concentrator works. Concentrators work best a 4 liters then the delivery can be past the working capabilities. If she was in a hospital ready for discharge on a 10 liter concentrator, the discharge would not happen
The lungs, in COPD are injured to the extent that they cannot accept nor handle this level of O2 often enough, the alveoli being incapable to handling ultimately this level of O2.
I hope that an MD is entrusted to supervise if this amount of O2 is being given.
I recommend this short film on youtube to understand a bit more about oxygen and O2 administration. I tried to do a copy/paste and couldn't seem to get it to "take" here, but if you go to youtube and type in "oxygen administration and COPD" if should show up for you.
Your loved one is in end of life care now and the goal is comfort. She will not have the wish to speak or move or even eat now, as everything she has is dedicated simply to draw another breath. Be certain the good medications are on board, even if they hasten death by some minutes, hours or even days. There is no sense now to suffer. I am so sorry for this. I wish peace for your family in this hard time. This is a crucible to witness.
I would ask to discuss with the Hospice MD. He/she will know what is best for comfort of your loved one.