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I am 50, only child, live in USA, parents are 82 & 83 and live abroad. My parents have always bickered, their dynamic is to argue about everything but they have never separated. Since I was little I noticed the fights, they are fundamentally different people. I used to tell them, please divorce and be happy separately! Please! They never did. They say they are stuck together. On the phone which we talk around 8 times a day, they are loving, she writes me beautiful cards and its so attentive. But in person they argue with me all the time, they tell me what to do but everything I do or say aggravates them. I paid for hospital stay, he's been hospitalized for a week, and both got mad because they arent "incapacitated". They say I want to pay for everything and they don't need it. So yesterday I took her card and she paid. Same at supermarket I can't go by myself and they dont let me pay, they make a show in front of cashier so I let it go, to avoid the scene. Aside from that, the house is filthy, if I try to clean, they get MAD. Yelling and screaming. So I stopped and try to clean a little at night when they sleep. The s*** from animals in back yard covers every corner, there's not a clean space to sit, but they don't see it. If someone comes here I would feel so embarrassed that they would think I let my parents live this way. I don't, but if I try to help they get so upset. Their kitchen trash is disgusting, that no Clorox would help so I bought them one, exactly the same, and I left to USA. A month later I return and the old disgusting trash can is again in their kitchen, and the new one outside in a closet. Not being used. Their fridge has old food in it hasn't been cleaned in ages, but they don't let me touch it not even to "rearrange it better". They argue with me 24/7. I've tried shutting up, trying to agree, even just ignoring them, and they get pissed no matter what I do. But when im back home, on the phone they love me to death and are so nice. What's going on here??? I love them but do they fight me so much? all I doing is trying to her them.


Yesterday mom gave me so many directions while driving, turn here, be careful, look at that car, theres a hole in the street, that car is coming this way while acted like we were getting into an accident, (nothing was going on) etc etc etc that I said MOM PLEASE relax, just let me drive. Please. I just exploded crying and finally parked. I feel HORRIBLE saying this but in that moment I just wanted to grab her and shake her so hard. To just shut UP. It was 10 minutes of non stop anxiety in the car about every little thing and telling me what to do the whole 10 minutes. I would never disrespect her, I love this woman more than life itself, but she caused me so much stress, that I just started crying out of frustration. It even took me by surprise, I went from 0 -100 crying. I couldn't help it. Thats' how intense she is and how she triggers me. I feel like a bad daughter for not knowing HOW to deal with her. She loves me so much, I have no doubt, but she's gotten extremely difficult and all I want is for her to feel cared for and loved and safe with me, but I cause her to feel the contrary. What am I doing wrong? Please help.

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Simple answer from what you wrote? They love you when you're in the US and they're somewhere else. From what you said, I don't think they want you being in their business like you have been. Keep the lines open, say you're going to help, but accept that they might not accept the help from you that you think they need. As long as they are independent and legally of sound mind, there is little you can do.
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Does their Country have an Adult protection agency? Maybe u need to put them on their radar. Call them every so often for a "well check". Maybe you should stop visiting and let them live their lives the way they want. You are not going to win this one. And it causes u nothing but anxiety. And I do understand wanting to shake her.
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Oh my poor honey. Take a deep breath. Breathe. Brace yourself…

Where you’re going wrong is that you think this is something that can be fixed. It can’t. Hoarding in the elderly with cognitive decline is unfixable. As you said, they don’t see it, are stuck in their ways, and resistant to any sort of change. They live in a state of constant fight or flight, and feel trapped but are unable to voice or even understand what is going on around them.

They need to be placed in care. You’ve done a great job looking after them until now, but this is more than any one person. It’s now going to take a village.

Guilt, depression, and defeat are common emotions when contemplating putting an elderly loved one in care, but you need to put all that aside, put your big girl pants on and focus on SAFETY. Their safety has to be the absolute #1 concern and priority, above their feeling about it or yours. If their safety is in jeopardy (due to unhygienic living conditions, dangers of possible food poisoning, contamination by mouse droppings, wandering, etc) you must intervene and place them in care.

It is the responsible thing to do, and the loving thing. The wrong thing is to allow them to keep living in filth because you’re too scared that they’ll hate you. You must be the adult now. And being an adult is all about making the hard decisions.

Best of luck.
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hugs!! :)

only you know all the facts, so i just have theories here:

--you wrote:
"I've tried shutting up, trying to agree, even just ignoring them, and they get pissed no matter what I do."

i've been in EXACTLY the same situation. it didn't matter what i do.

beware, some people LOVE arguing. they love creating conflict/accusing/blaming. if you help, they blame you. if you don't help, they blame you. it doesn't matter what you do ----- they WANT to fight. they enjoy it. they want you to fight, too.

no one is happy while they're fighting. we have angry faces.
no one fights being super happy.

some people want angry/frustrated faces around them. the last thing they want is happy, bubbly, cheerful faces around them.

--why are they loving to you while you're in the US?
maybe because if they're awful to you all the time, you won't visit at all.

they probably DO want you to visit. and you visiting, might be an opportunity to throw mental garbage at you.

--you driving the car; your mother saying "be careful", etc.
i bet you were driving very carefully.
EVERYONE knows it's extremely annoying to have someone in the passenger seat (when you're indeed a careful driver), saying "be careful, watch out for that, this"...indeed, all those comments CAN lead to an accident.

they do it to provoke.

by the way, i've been in EXACTLY the same situation as you.

some people want you to blow up in the car.

--you paid for hospital stay, etc.
your parents sound ungrateful.
a very normal comment would be, "dear daughter, thanks a lot for this. your intentions are very kind, but you don't need to pay for us."

it's totally normal to say "THANKS".

you don't just criticize and get angry.

--my guess?
your parents are unhappy.
they try to throw their unhappiness at you.

unhappy people feel good when other people are unhappy too.

--solution?

for many of us, finding the right balance between helping our LOs, and helping ourselves, is hard.

help yourself more, dear lily :).
make your life awesome, amazing, happy, successful. :).

this is 1 big way of making your parents happy.

loving parents are happy when their daughters are happy/successful.
and if your parents aren't loving parents...well, if they would be loving, they would want you to be happy/successful. (how ever you want to define "success").

hugs!!

bundle of joy :)
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What I am coming to understand - at least in our situation with my FIL is this - as long as things are going HIS way and we are doing things HIS way - things are great -he's reasonably content with us - at least for him. (he's not exactly a content person over all LOL). But the instant we offer any advice, guidance, try to do anything to help, question him or anything her perceives as stepping into his space in anyway that he doesn't like - all bets are off.

It's the walking on eggshells syndrome. As long as you stay in your lane - everything is fine. But as soon as you step into theirs every car on the highway comes to a screeching halt and it's a pile up and you can't even see the lane dividers - about right?

In our case- he is this way to varying degrees with EVERYONE. But it is a far worse offense if you are his offspring, married his offspring or are his grandchildren. Because something about that particular role in his mind means that we are obligated to listen to him and do as he says - no questions asked. And now that he is in the position and condition that he is in - and behaves largely like a toddler 99% of the time - the positions have changed and we are the "adults in charge" and the resistance is mostly a show of rebellion and an attempt at power and to control the situation because it is pretty much the only things he has any control over anymore and he wants to save face I guess.

Our best bet anymore is to just ignore it and work around him most of the time. Do what we can. If something is critical, figure out a way to make him think it is his idea to do it a certain way. Because there is no convincing him that we are right, so we have to get him to work WITH us instead of working against us as much as possible.
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What a crazy situation! I could not tolerate it. Maybe you shouldn't either.

How often are you going over there to see them? I would postpone it indefinitely at this point. If you go back, don't stay with them. The conditions there are inhumane and you do not need to subject yourself to them. It's unsafe.

They, especially your mom, are obviously having some major issues. Hoarding. Eating expired food. Poop all over the yard. This is just not anything a personal in the normal range would tolerate. Since they are in their 80s, I'd seriously consider that they may be having dementia and are really not very safe at home without assistance. And no one can assist them due to the deplorable conditions they are living in.

I would talk to someone in their area to see what evaluations are available. Can someone look at their living conditions? The home might be declared unfit to live in and then maybe they'll be taken to a nursing home.

Are they going to the doctor? They could benefit from a full evaluation - blood work, etc. to see if there is something going on that could be easily corrected.

And you talk on the phone to her EIGHT times a day?? That is really excessive. Why is she calling you so much? I would let a bunch of those go to voice mail and not listen to the message. Say it's broken and you can't listen to your messages.

From your description - it sounds like you are doing NOTHING wrong. But it sounds like your parents have a lot of issues.
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You are not doing anything wrong. I find myself in a similar situation with my Mom with dementia. I know it's not her fault but there are moments when she absolutely pushes me to my limit and I just breakdown. I have no more words I can use to help her understand what we are talking about in that moment. I start crying and she asks what's wrong? She doesn't even remember the frustrating conversation we JUST had. And she sure doesn't understand how overwhelmed I feel.

She's accused me of stealing from her and doing things pertaining to her home and finances behind her back only because she doesn't remember making the decisions.

She's dehydrated and suffers from chronic UTI but won't drink enough water. She cancels Dr appointments that she really needs.

My frustration is through the roof. I don't want to be hateful or hurt her in any way. But at that moment I just feel I can't do this anymore.

But we can. We take some time. Take some deep breaths. Pray about it, if that's something you believe in. And face the new day KNOWING you can only do so much. You are only one person. And as long as you are making an earnest attempt to help them, THAT is all you can do.

Most of all take care of yourself. Be kind to yourself. Feed your spirit and soul by doing things you enjoy and just try to maintain yourself in a good place.

We are all here because this is the toughest job we will ever have in our lives. But it is a labor of love. And at the end of the day we will know in our heart that we did our very best for them.

Hang in there.💜
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bundleofjoy Dec 2021
amazing all you do for your mother :).
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Let them be “them.” They like their system, their trash can where it is, etc. It sounds like they have clearly expressed to you that they don’t want you to remove, rearrange, redecorate and/or “hide” their stuff.

With their consent, hire a cleaning service (and a backyard poop-scooper) to start coming on a regular basis so that your parents are living in sanitary and safe conditions and your visits are about quality time spent together and not about these issues which you write.

Love them for who they are and stop trying to change them.

As for the “back seat driving” your mom, who probably taught you how to find your way around your town (and how to drive in the first place) just wants to help you arrive efficiently. She may still see you as a younger person, just as you may see her as younger (or older/more feeble) than she really is. Many of us have experienced watching our parents completely lose their way in a familiar place. If your parents live long enough, you could experience this loss too. They could even forget that you are their daughter. Count your blessings.

As for the anger issues, seek professional help before someone gets physically or emotionally hurt or the relationship becomes irreparably damaged.

I suppose if they were to write in to this forum it would read something like this…

We love our only daughter immensely and excitedly await her occasional visits. Once she arrives, however, instead of spending quality time with us, she wants to go through our things and rearrange our house in a way that is less convenient for us. The things we use most might get tossed or hidden, throwing off our routine. She looks around in disapproval, with a grimace on her face, carrying on with Clorox and scrub brushes like she is disgusted and disturbed with our home and with us. This makes us feel sad.

Instead of having fun, like we used to, she spins out into adult tantrums and tirades, crying and such. Sometimes she has a look in her eye like she might even physically harm us.

——
Instead of viewing them so critically, what things can you improve about yourself to make your stays more fun and memorable for everyone?
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Can I just say you're not doing anything wrong. They get like this. I deal with it every day. My opinion: just do what you have to do, like cleaning and trash. My mom yells she just did whatever I'm doing at that moment. I'm not letting them live in a nasty home, she can just get mad. She won't remember it in a minute anyways. Just do what you have to do girly.
Whenever something needs to be replaced (like your trash can) do it when they're sleeping and throw away the old item. I've replaced toaster and trash can and she never noticed the new one. I will admit in the beginning I was like you not wanting to hurt their feelings or make them feel helpless but you can't let them live an unclean life.
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bundleofjoy Dec 2021
it's very kind of you to help so much, tippytoes!
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You sound suspiciously human!
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You are not doing ANYTHING wrong! My Mom would scream at me when we were alone and then praise me up and down to strangers. Drove me nuts! Rest in the fact that you know in your heart that you are doing the best that you can. Hugs.
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If you aren’t living nearby in the same country as them, you aren’t able to control how they live. Accept it, safety or no safety.

If the phone calls go well, enjoy them. Eight calls a day sounds a bit over the top, but if that works for you, that can be your best contribution to their happiness.
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You're frustrated with them, which is why you burst out in tears in the car, and they're frustrated with you because they want things to stay THEIR way, and you want things done YOUR way.

You say, this, "If someone comes here I would feel so embarrassed that they would think I let my parents live this way." This is at the core of the matter: you are worried what others will think of YOU that you 'allow' your parents to live this way. If you take others' opinions OUT of the equation, then you agree to allow your parents to live however THEY see fit. Even if that means they live in squalor. You agree to go there and pick up the pieces of the chaos they create, should something happen to send them to the hospital or worse.

You get along fine when you're on the phone because you're not telling them what to do and they're not telling you what to do. It's an even playing field; there's just love on that field, no butting heads and nothing to fight about. Keep the relationship on the phone, as much as possible, and out of in person meetings b/c that's where the trouble starts. Unless you can keep your feelings to yourself about their living conditions, as much as it upsets you.

Stay out of their squabbling relationship, too, because it's THEIRS to deal with. My parents had that sort of relationship too, which bugged me to death, but hey, it was THEIR problem ultimately. They stayed together for 68 years when "I" felt they should have divorced decades earlier.

Your mother is a backseat driver which is a terrible thing for the driver. It puts you on edge and more inclined TO have an accident as a result of her reactions to every pothole and fly that flies into her sight. Stay out of the car as much as possible when you are together. Let HER pay her OWN bills with her own credit card and keep out of their finances. You have your own bills to worry about; stop trying to look good in front of 'others' and just MYOB for the most part. That is said with good intent, not as a snarky remark, by the way. They don't want your involvement in their lives, period. Recognize that and life will get easier for YOU and for THEM.

So what you are 'doing wrong' is trying to instill your values on them. They don't want to hear about it. They don't want your garbage can in their kitchen, they want THEIR garbage can in their kitchen, as foul as it may be. The poop in the yard is fine with them, it bothers you. Since it's their house, let them live in it as they see fit and again, just be available to pick up the pieces when the sh*t hits the fan, so to speak. Right? What else can you do if you want to maintain any semblance of a good relationship?

Wishing you the best of luck letting sleeping dogs lie, even if it's in their own filth.
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Try to keep in your mind you are trying to help and love them. Yes, the garbage and arguements are disgusting but don't fight over it. I write this as I am deeply depressed in the same situation taking antidepressants.
😔🙏
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It is simply disgusting and cruel how they choose to live and how they treat you. I don't know how you can force them to be clean and behave better. I think I would go to adult protective services and seek their help. And never, ever feel guilty for being overwhelmed and angry - you deserve to be upset and mad and should never have to tolerate their way of life. I do feel YOU and they should not mix - except on a simple social level - oil and water do not mix and this is going to harm you. Get help for them outside of you and let them know if they do not "cooperate" and clean things, they will be taken out of their home.
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Riley2166 Dec 2021
As to the back seat driving, I once had this with someone - just would not shut up no matter how I tried to stop her. So I pulled over to the side of the road and asked her to step out and wait there. When she asked why, I simply told her she would not "shut up" and I was going to do an errand and when I was done, I would pick her up. I left and came back five minutes later. Never, ever was she a back seat driver again.
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As my husband says, 'no one pushes our buttons like our parents - they are the ones that installed them!'
Whether they mean to do it or not they can drive you absolutely crazy. It took me quite a while to stop trying to impose the way I thought they should be living on them - they are adults and have lived that way for a long time, and it is their choice. (Not including any dementia or Alzheimers setting in, we'll get to that.)
Thankfully my parents were never argumentative with me, and usually appreciated things that I did around the house - although I knew how far I could push it before I got the 'I have a system - I know where everything is'. (Maddeningly, he usually did!) I cleaned up a bunch of tools and things that were piled up and didn't hear the end of it for years. I started trying to tackle the issue of paperwork stacked up around the house by saying that I was organizing it, and wouldn't throw anything out on them. That actually worked pretty well, and I didn't get rid of as much as I really wanted to, but did get rid of some stuff, and ended up having some organization in document boxes that I could easily move and stack. And that will also help me get rid of it later on, as I know where any of the important papers ended up.
You can only do so much - and I'm sure you're worried about the sanitary conditions, that would be my first concern. (My mom used to be on top of making sure food in the fridge was okay, but when she couldn't do it any more, by Dad didn't really see the problem, and would always say stuff was fine.)
So you may need to be sneaky with some things, like the food. The some of the rest of the non-sanitary issues you may not be able to do much about right now. Take your opportunity when you can, but they are adults that chose the life they are living. Good luck! I hope you find some answers and some ways to deal with it all without losing your mind!
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lily17: Imho, you are doing nothing wrong. This is THEIR life. Do not engage in acrimony from them.
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The question isn't what you are doing 'wrong' -
It sounds like you are trying to do too much (at your own healthy expense) and by not setting limits or perhaps not being aware that you can set limits and need to.

If they want to bicker for decades - their behavioral patterns - that is up to them. Do not allow them to do this to you. Walk away. Stop giving rides if you mom behaves unruly in the car while you are driving.

What I was not clear on is that you say they live abroad.

If you do not have POA agent status, let them handle their own affairs and ask you for support when they realize they need it.

If you do not create boundaries of acceptable behavior; and
If you do not have a heart to heart talk and tell them what you will and won't do;
you will burn out and be that rat chasing its tail on the wheel. Don't be that rat.

You need to tell them, either from a medical opinion point-of-view or your own, what you know or feel is in their best interest. If they do not listen and argue with you about it, walk away.

"We teach others how to treat is." They are following your lead.
I realize there is some wounding of you growing up in this environment. I did too. Not pleasant.

You will burn yourself out totally if you do not change your thinking and behavior.

Love yourself. You (will) may feel awkward, guilty and uncomfortable as this is new behavior for you. You deserve to be respected and that starts with self-respect and asking/ requiring/ demanding it (as is possible notwithstanding dementia).
Do not take on the burdens that are not yours. It is not as easy as saying these words as to figure out what works (for you and them). You might need to try things on / out and adjust as needed. Allow yourself to do this. Nothing in these care areas are black and white. It is all shades of gray.

Gena / Touch Matters
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So sorry that your parents are having a hard time in their senior years, I always tell myself - and others (because I am kind of an outspoken person) - that as long as they live in safe and healthy conditions not to bother them. It seems that your parents do not live in a safe or healthy home. Is it possible for them to move to a version of assisted living that is similar to that in the USA? If not, would they object to having a housecleaner and yard person to come by weekly to deal with the mess?
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Lily,
Call no more than 1-2 times a day.
Then, skip a day so you will have time to live your life.
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About driving, wife got lost two times coming home alone from cemetery, she was 82 years old, she parked the car and said I am not driving anymore, I realized that she had dementia, I was doing the cooking and some cleaning, our two girls lived on the east coast and would take turns to visit , clean the home and do the wash. We moved in an assisted living place, wife did not like it, but we had no choice, we would go for car rides even when we were locked in, car ride consisted going to a county park, then driving in the countryside for a two hour ride, they let us
do that as long as we did not open the door or windows.
to keep wife happy I would ask her to be the navigator, where to go, turn , stop, how fast and watch out for traffic,
She was very happy because she was doing something useful, Than she would tell me how useful she was otherwise we would get lost. She passed away last July, and I miss her instructions , I have not gone trough the park or out in the country since the last drive in May/June
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Every single one of us has felt like strangling, or shaking, or otherwise physically abusing our LO at one time or another. What makes us kind and caring is that we don't act on those feelings. Yelling, screaming, cussing - I am guilty, as most if us are, if we're honest. So don't feel bad about losing it. We all have or will at one time or another. So just wipe that off your "bad daughter list" because you aren't. You're human. Hugs to you.
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My cousin had a similar experience with his mother. She was moved into senior housing where they took care of the lawns, snow removal, etc. Every time he would visit, she did nothing but complain about how the yard work was done, they didn't remove the snow correctly, etc. You get the picture. Finally, he told her if she didn't like, she needed to get out of her recliner and go do it herself since nothing was ever going to please her. The result: she stopped complaining to him. Not saying this would work with your parents, but it might be worth a try. I have used a similar approach with my mom. If she starts complaining that something doesn't need to be done, I invite her to help me do it. Sometimes she helps, other times she doesn't but she quits arguing because I've made her make a decision. Sometimes they may need to feel like they are still useful.?.?.?

This forum has some really good advise about how crucial it is to take care of yourself first. That is so very important otherwise you will end up with long term health issues physically, emotionally, and mentally. Take whatever steps you need to take so as to protect yourself.

Take care of yourself! Hoping for the best for you on this difficult journey.
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bundleofjoy Dec 2021
hugs! :)

dear msusan,

of course i’m just guessing, i could be totally wrong. your cousin (male) said that to his mother and it worked. the mother stopped complaining. i’m not sure it would have worked if it had been a daughter. sometimes mothers listen to their sons. i think some mothers don’t want their sons to see their bad behavior. the mothers value their opinion.

(of course there are always exceptions: i’m not saying that what i write here is true for everyone.)

mean mothers might value the daughter’s opinion too (might even secretly think the daughter’s ideas are brilliant), but meanwhile some mean mothers will have fun arguing/creating hell for the daughter.

msusan, your mother stops arguing when you make her make a decision. thank goodness.

i’m guessing OP’s situation is similar to mine. in other words, the opposite of yours.

OP wrote:

“They argue with me 24/7. I've tried shutting up, trying to agree, even just ignoring them, and they get pissed no matter what I do.”

same here. it doesn’t matter what i do: help, don’t help, stay silent, speak, try to hug, whatever, i’m screamed at.

some people just love arguing/screaming/insulting/accusing/drama/they love upsetting you.

there is no reasoning (because they have no intention to stop. they love arguing with you/frustrating you/provoking/bullying).

they’d love you to lose your temper (i don’t). then they can say, “look YOU raised your voice at me.”

some people want to be impossible/difficult — especially towards their daughters.

they enjoy seeing their daughter stressed out.

——

remember OP:
you’re a woman
you’re younger

she’s jealous

——
OP, you said both your parents argue against you.

protect yourself
make yourself unavailable

my opinion:
don’t cut contact
reduce contact

…heal from all the arguing. it’s stressful and damaging towards you, OP. no one can flourish while being verbally attacked.

help others AND yourself.

hug!! :)

bundle of joy :)
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The only thing I can see that you are doing wrong, is giving into them. Personally, I would not put up with that kind of filth. I would make it abundantly clear that I would not be visiting again until they agreed that it had to change.
Blunt, I know, but sometimes it has to be that way. They are not suffering the consequences of their own bad behavior, so they have no reason to change.
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Isthisrealyreal Dec 2021
I won't go in my moms house because of the filth. Tried to help and it wasn't appreciated or accepted.

Okay, you want to live that way, your choice, mine, I'm not subjecting myself to that breeding ground of filth.
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I’ve been thinking several times about those phone calls 8 times a day. I mentioned it to DH, and his reaction was ‘what on earth can you talk about – what you’ve been doing in the half hour since the last phone call?’. It sounds to me that perhaps the excessive phone calls are a way of them controlling you, or you controlling them. If you want them to take responsibility for their own lives, don’t answer the phone!
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Lily, what are your parents' long-term plans as they age and continue to have declining health and ability? Since they're in another country, you can't be the band-aid for these issues without giving up your entire life as you know it. I don't recommend that. :-)

Since you paid for a hospital stay, I'll assume you have the monetary means to help them, and clearly you're trying very hard to help out. Why not hire outside help? I would forewarn them about your parents' behavior, but someone who's personally outside the situation could be helpful here -- both as necessary home help and also give you some perspective.

This site is very helpful and many other users have been in similar situations.
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