How to get Dad to turn over money matters to my brother?

you need to see an eldercare attorney to get the right kind of guidance. Different states have differing rules on what you can do and how to do it, A POA is normally voluntary and can easily be revoked by the person involved. You may need to go to court and be given guardianship which then gives the guardian the say so in all financial matters, That can be a complicated process and needs assistance to make it work. you should with POA change his address and notify all creditors, etc. of the one you want used. You also need to show a copy of the POA document y\to banks, etc. Some may require more authority. I strongly encourage you and your brother to talk with an attorney in your area. GOOD LUCK! It is not an easy road to follow

He cannot nor should not be in control of his finances. My sister-in-law with Alzheimer's hadn't a clue that she was receiving tons of overdraft notices from her bank. She used to balance a checkbook to the penny before this horrid disease.

First of all, get either a post office box or get the use of another mail box and only allow junk to your mailbox. Second, do NOT take him to the bank or where he can cause problems. Another thing, can the check for him be direct deposited into the checking account. Try to get someone else's name on it so he is not the sole signer. Also, try to get a Power of Attorney. You may just simply have to lay the law down and tell him how it is now going to be - and let him rant and rave. If he is getting mean and nasty, do NOT allow it. Prepare to place him somewhere before he destroys you. And contact an elder care attorney for advice and help.

I am so glad our mother went for full transparency with financials.
A take-away for me is my husband and I will never be more cognitively aware than we are right now, and it is time to get our financials in order so (hopefully) decades from now our kids can step in.

First your brother isn't POA "over" Dad is is POA for Dad and there is a distinction. Do you know if it is a DPOA? Some states they all are and others both need to be granted individually. The D (durable) is for just what you are talking about, there are hoops to jump through getting the doctor to sign off but once the D kicks in your brother is legally able to take over dad's finances. Now that said I would encourage your brother to try doing things that still give dad the sense of having control, move things slowly. So once a week or month sit down with dad and the bills write out the checks and have dad sign them, let dad be in charge of what checks are written (bro can remind or suggest things that need doing). Maybe make suggestions about recurring payments being set up on-line, say some that dad doesn't scrutinize each month because it will be a load off not to have to remember, then or maybe to start use direct deposit. Many banks offer incentives of some sort to use direct deposit maybe that angle could be used...

It can be very hard and certainly more time consuming than necessary but allowing dad that sense of control and decision making to do the things that you know should be done, will make things easier and safer, really does often work. If he's like my mom at all the more he feels he's loosing control the harder he will dig his heals in but if he decides it's easier to just asked bro to do it even though the outcome is the same dad will give it up much easier and adjust much quicker. It's a lesson we are still learning the hard way about all things not just finances. Good luck!

My father went through the same process, having been a VP of Finance for a business.

The steps I took was I told Dad that I would fill out all of the checks for to whom, and for what amount, and I would log the transactions in the register, but only after he approved all the checks going out, against the bills received, and that HE SIGN ALL the checks.

That gave him the security that no one else was spending or taking his money, he had final say by signing every check with his stamp of approval, before the checks went out and the bills got paid.

I made him feel like a Treasurer again. It worked quite well, in his case.

When finances were becoming a little more difficult for mom, I offered to take over (two of us are on the main CU account and have DPOA.) She declined, saying it gave her something to do. When she started making mistakes, filing oddly and digging out old papers, I stepped in. Her SS was going to a different bank, one we were not on, set up by her so she had more local access to cash. I took her with me (she just rifled through her wallet while I presented the DPOA) and cashed out the account - then deposited into main CU account to make it easier for me, she was with me when I requested change of address, etc, again she just rifled through her wallet.) I later also had one brother take her out for a "trip" and cleared ALL paperwork, old and new, from her place (she was digging out old W2s and thinking someone died and left her money - it was dad's pension and listed Death Benefit!! She was driving me nuts calling every few days about it. I was able to briefly get her to understand she got the payments, but why did it just come in the mail? ANYTHING on the kitchen table *just* came. I chalked it up to people being stupid. :-O)

Initially I had all her mail on a temporary forward to my PO box (I wasn't local enough to snag the mail.) If he lives with or near one of you, you could skip this step. I just needed the actual bills for contact info for each payee. NOTE: with few exceptions I did NOT need to provide the POA documents - most billers don't care where the bill goes, so long as they get paid! Exceptions would be the bank(s) and CC companies. Explanation could help (many people have different addresses, such as "snow geese", so this shouldn't be a big deal.) I chose to use the bill payer to make payments rather than auto-pay, as one can forget about these and keep paying for something that no longer applies!

She received notice about the address forwarding, and complained, but once the bills, papers, etc were out of sight, they were out of mind.

It isn't likely dad is going to agree, so you just have to take over as best you can without discussion. If he questions not getting checks, you could use the excuse others suggested - new requirements to take electronic payments. He might BMC for a while, but eventually he might forget.

1) inquire at the bank as to how you can proceed (online query indicates signing with DPOA after your name *could* work even if you are not on the account - it might depend on your state laws and/or bank rules.) If brother is not on the account, this method might work. You will need to have them change the mailing address to brother's address.
2) sign up as rep payee for SS (use your local office) It requires an appointment, approval and setting up a separate account (only SS funds, keep track of how it is used, report yearly, only rep can access.) First payment comes as check, then when account is set up, a simple call allowed me to request electronic payments. Reporting was easy online - esp easy as I use the entire amount as partial payment on her MC "rent." Otherwise, just keep good records as to how it is spent (AND read the paperwork to know HOW you can use his SS.)
3) contact any other income sources (aka pensions) and ask how you can direct his income to his account electronically/gain access.
4) if he still looks for checks in the mail or checks to make payments, can you buy him some kid play checks and stamps (quick look indicates they are out there!) As for incoming, maybe copy/reuse the ones he has gotten (deposit last real check via online and use that?)

Mom's pension was dad's federal pension - this one took the most time/effort! NO federal agency honors any kind of POA - they have their own rules. Mostly this is because every state has different POA rules, so the Feds don't honor them. Unlike the SS payments, I was able to take over as representative, but allowed to keep her deposits going to the CU account.

Your father probably will not willingly give up control of his money. As you say, it is his last bit of independence. It says nothing about your brother, or you, for that matter. I suggest your brother gradually change everything coming in or going out to an electronic transaction. Your brother will have to go through some work to register his POA with the bank. If he has access to your father's accounts, he can set them up for electronic payments. Those should be easy to set up. I personally wouldn't start changing addresses. You should change his notices to electronic as well when you set up electronic payments or deposits.

First, I assume that your brother is listed on your dad's accounts. If not, he should be. This will require your dad's signature. Do this immediately. For a while, I used to write out all payments that mom had to send and have her "approve" the check when she signed it. She would also place the stamp on the envelope. Over time, I would initiate electronic payment on some of her bills (like supplemental insurance premiums) to limit the number of checks she would need to sign. Gradually, as she needed, her responsibilities were lessened. Throughout all, she kept one passbook savings account with a few hundred dollars in it, and I would make sure that she always had cash at her fingertips making a point of noticing if she were spending it faster than usual. That way she always possessed some independent control. She never used the passbook, but felt assured that in an emergency, there was something. This worked well for us.

It was a slow process...but my mom is the one with the dx, and dad is totally with me. She was very controlling, the bill payer. Got to the point where she'd snatch the mail, sometimes throw things out. Scary thing was one day I just had this intuitive sense about an envelope from the supplemental insurance. Thank god they are understanding...mom's payment was never sent..so their policy COULD have been ended after decades of having it. That's a big dangerous mistake. So for starters we got the check book (and those pads in reserve) siphoned off and away. Then with every bill we changed the address on the form/lines. I had them added (same last name which made it easier) to my PO Box address, so the bills stopped coming. Many I know do all this on-line, I prefer not. Stupid originally and when ordering duplicate checks the bank created a hassle to have them sent to the bank for dad to pick up...now use Costco, and the PO Box address, and it's a piece of cake. Your brother is POA and if he can do so without dad seeing, snatch that mail out of the box before going in. Also don't be surprised if you try to verbally communicate with these places and get hassled...your brother may have to say he's your dad to get things done efficiently:-)

Have your brother send a copy of the POA to each bill and check and ask them to change the address to your brother's address with the explanation of your dad diagnosis, so the bills and checks are no longer going to your dad. Actually, anything of importance should have the address changed to your brothers address. My brother had to do this on my mother as her Alzheimer's got worse as she was losing the ability to pay bills or in making decisions. My mother got so she would want to send checks to junk mail. Have your brother to get all checks away from your dad. Maybe you can take your dad on his doctor's appointment would be better to give your brother a little more time in looking for checks, checkbook and any other important item that might be in your father's bedroom or desk that needs to be removed. My brother did this when my mother would sleep.

Can you grab the checks before you drive him down to the mailbox? Maybe tell him, "Don't you remember, we went to the bank and they are already deposited." If he has a fit he has a fit. You have to do what you have to do.

Because Dad has already entered the stages where he is not competent and is making mistakes you will now have to see an Elder Care Attorney and an arrangement will be made to go to court to have your brother assigned as guardian and Power of Attorney for bills, and etc. This is a BIG JOB and if he is unable to do it, doesn't live in the area, while it is an added cost it may be best to have a court appointed fiduciary to manage the financial while you and your brother take on medical power of attorney for health care decisions. You can, as next of kin, assume both. It will not work to steal bills and checks and so on out of the mail box. This must now be done legally.

Unless Bro goes to Court to Become, Hun, Dad's Guardian, It probably won't happen. Dad may have Dementia but has enough Common Sense to Imagine that people could be Taking hi smoney, Honey, True or Not, He is Not a Nut. Maybe down the line if Dad tries to Do something to Harm Himself or others, Call Adult Protective Services to Get this Ball Going.......

I took my parents to an attorney to make sure all their affairs were in order, did a power of attorney and HIPAA and then took them to the bank to add me as a beneficiary “just in case’. And manage their bills online, my mom was writing checks and putting them in envelope and I’d take care of mailing them. I discovered quite a few things they were paying for that were bogus and the late fees were through the roof! I got them hundreds of dollars back and stopped the crap...like 3 disability insurance policies, they had 7 different kinds of insurance exceeding $500 a month...they are in their 80’s and retired and def didn’t need disability!

When my Dad's caregiver started to notice that Dad was starting to toss his current bills into the recycling, she quickly let me know. She fished out all of the bills and handed them to me when I came to visit Dad.

Since I had financial Power of Attorney, I had all the bills forwarded to a new address, my house.

Dad wasn't crazy about auto-pay, and neither was I, but I was lucky that Dad was willing to have my name on his checks, so I could pay his bills. I told him just in case he was in the hospital, I didn't him to have late fees on his bills. He agreed with that... and eventually he forgot about bill paying.

I would monitor his checking account on-line just to be sure nothing out the norm was happening. Also had all of Dad's financial statements going to my house. It wasn't easy trying to get Dad to consolidate all of his accounts to just one bank. There was that fear that the bank would go broke [Dad was from the Great Depression era].

As for funds coming into Dad's checking account, it is all direct deposits which he has been using since direct deposit was first invented, so that was relief. I realize some people want to see the actual check in hand, which is understandable.

My mom has gotten late fees because she forgets, or more likely misplaces, bills. Then says she never got a bill. Or blames the bank. I suggested several times putting everything on auto pay. She won't hear of it. She doesn't want anyone having access to her money. Funds is not an issue. She can afford whatever she wants (not that she wants much). She has no debt (she uses a credit card but carries no balance), just everyday expenses and utilities and the like. She doesn't trust auto pay. In her mind, for example, if she were to put her insurance on auto pay, "Jake from State Farm" could get into her bank account and take his family on a nice vacation. She doesn't understand that it isn't a free-for-all for anyone who wants to help themselves to her money.

Setting up auto pay spounds good but someone has to intercept the bills. Or he will pay them again. Dad is incompetent so POA is in effect. Brother can come in and remove checks and have billings sent to him.

I agree with cwillie. Set up online banking and autopay for your Dad's expenses. Your Dad's checks should have been switched to direct deposit ages ago. Getting checks in the mail is a surefire way to have them stolen.

I would work with your brother to set up direct deposit for cheques and auto pay for expenses - you can tell your father that this is the way the new world works and you don't have any choice in it, you could even send him a fake letter to that effect.
(I'm actually surprised that he still gets cheques in the mail, when it comes to gov't payments it truly isn't an option here anymore)