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So I created a post several years ago, and wanted to look for help based on the current situation. My father-in-law had a debilitating stroke a few years ago. He can't walk on his own, barely talks and has a feeding tube for nutrition. He has been in a nursing home the past few years, and recently he ended up in the hospital with a UTI. My wife now wants him out of this nursing home, and wants to move him into our home to take care of him. Here are a couple things to keep in mind.
Our house is not wheelchair accessible, bathrooms/hallways are a bit tight.
We have 2 small children that live in the house, she wants to put them into one room so he can have his own room. Or put him into the oldest one's room, he's not pleased with that idea as you can imagine.
No one in his family cares much about him, including his estranged wife and 3 other kids. He has a sister who wishes he was dead. My wife is the only one who wants to take care of him.
My wife is a nurse, and she is under the impression that she'll be able to handle his care 24-7. I know it's going to take 2 people to get him to the bathroom or to change his diaper.
He has no income besides Medicare, about $800 a month, and the nursing home has been using that for the past few years.
Now I've expressed my opinion on the situation, but I don't think she is taking anyone else into consideration. She has already closed his account at the nursing home, and he will soon be release from the hospital. I'm pretty sure she is just going to bring him home. She does not discuss any details with me. I told her that this decision could possibly break apart our family, and she is willing to go that route, BUT we are living on a combined income so I don't see how she would be able to do it on her own, much less with both of us on board. Me personally, I think he has had no quality of life in the past few years. No one has gone to visit him, including my wife. I don't see any way for his condition to improve as it has gotten much worse over the past year. If it was my father, I would have a talk with the immediate family about removing the feeding tube and let him pass. I know that is a hard decision, but lying in bed all day and not seeing anyone ever is awful. I've asked other family members on her side if they would be able to take him in, and of course no one will, they all have excuses. I've asked if they would like to move him to a different facility in their area/states, where he can be closer to them, and no one has stepped up. The facility he was at was a good hour or so from us, it was the closest one available.
Does anyone have any knowledge of what Medicare/Medicaid would cover for caregiving at home? What I saw was 35 hours a week, but not for long term. My wife said that she could be his caregiver, and they would pay her X amount of money, but I didn't hear any other details with that option so I don't know if we could afford that route. My wife would have to quit her current job, so we would be losing half of our income, and with the way everything is costing right now, we can't afford to do that. So I guess, my question is a couple parts. 1, how do I convince her that this isn't an option? Even if money wasn't an issue, I honestly don't think she could handle it. She brought him home for a holiday last year, took care of him for 2 days. After the 2nd day she had to take 2 days off of work because of the exhaustion. 2nd question, does anyone have any real life experience dealing with Medicare/Medicaid for home health care, at home care giving, so I have those facts ready when I try to have a discussion with her? Also note, this has been a very hostile topic, and has caused some knock down drag out fights, some occurring in front of our youngest child. I have told her numerous times, that I do not want this to cause these fights in front of the kids as it's harming them mentally. We've had some issues now with our youngest at school. Please help!

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Unfortunately this might break up your family. You know you can't do this and your wife is fooling herself if she thinks she can.

When a person is incontinent UTIs can happen.

The only solution is to tell her fkat out that he cannot live in the house with whatever consequences you want to give if she does it anyway.

Sorry about your situation. It sucks. And your wife sounds like she has mental issues. I mean knock down drag out fights over this. What the hell is wrong with her? I wonder if you look at other aspects of your relationship you may realize that she is not that great of a person over all.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
Finally getting to reply to your post. I have several others to reply to so I'll try to keep them short but concise.

The UTI was nothing major, and he has only had 2 hospital trips in the past 3 years from the NH, so I don't see any issue with them. I remember my mom dealing with my grandmother when she was in and out of the hospital every week just being in assisted living.

I think we all sort of have some mental issues, some more than others for sure. I do think this is caused from her upbringing. That would take a while to explain, but it wasn't a good one, and her dad fought to have his kids in his life. Now whether he did that to get back at his ex wife, or truly loved his kids, I don't know.
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Consider asking her to take some PTO, go to the NH and provide his care, completely by herself, for 2 days.
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Beatty Sep 2022
Agree. But as a nurse I imagine she will do fine.

The big difference between a *trial of care* & the *real deal* is the other life responsibilities: especially children! Their needs, meals, driving here & there, homework support, activities, household cleaning/cooking/laundry.

In 2 days it is still possible to be deep in denial about how much time & effort will be needed.
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Putting her dad above her own children to keep him at home is a big NO.
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Is she wanting to take him out of NH because he got a UTI? Certainly she should address this with the staff there, but imho there's nothing to prevent him from getting another UTI at home while being cared for by a soon-to-be burnt out caregiver. It looks like your wife, as noble a person as she may be, is jumping from frying pan into the fire and assuming you're willing to pick up any slack. She's risking her marriage, family, career, her own health. And to what end? Perhaps she will feel better about herself for a while, but your FIL may be no better off, indeed maybe worse. I agree with BarbBrooklyn that your wife would be wise to take on your FIL's care while he's still in NH for a reality check.
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Print out your concerns and give her the letter.

The very obvious (to all of us, and you) is that this idea, while kind hearted, is a hard no.

Why at this point in dad's life is she feeling the need to intervene in such a dramatic fashion? Suddenly realizing that her dad is not going to live forever? Guilt over not being around him a lot?

If you are fighting over this NOW, then it isn't going to get better. But you know that.

My DH wanted to bring his dad to our house. I firmly said "no" over and over. Finally I said HE could bring dad to live in our house but my 2 youngest daughters and I would not live there. It got that nasty before he realized I was right---but when he talks of it now (almost 19 years ago!) he still paints me as the 'bad guy' who wouldn't take in his father. Still.

We should have had couples counseling about it so that 100% of the blame didn't fall on me, but it was what it was.

Barb had the best answer. Let your wife care for him in his NH for 2 straight days and see how she feels.
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Beatty Sep 2022
"he still paints me as the 'bad guy". Shame on him!

I heard someone recently referring to the same deal.
He had wanted to move his Mother in, spouse said no & copped the blame.

These folk need to OWN their behaviour, of ignoring & stomping all over their spouse's "NO". For wanting their spouse to OBEY them & also for continuing to blame.

Their own behaviour is indeed shameful!
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He barely talks, but is he competent enough to say anything? She closed his account; is she his POA? She plans to give up her job rather than apply for FMLA so this is not a trial, not hospice?

Seek individual and marriage counseling. Encourage her to ask about why visiting him hasn’t been feasible but this total disruption of home, occupation, and family is.

Educate yourself about divorce and family law so you can ask intelligent questions when you see a lawyer.

Work out a plan for what to do if she unilaterally brings him home. If you stay and participate, your easiest way out is someone’s next hospital stay.

Do you leave? Do you take the kids or leave them with her; would you seek custody? Do you go to a hotel or to family/friends? Is your home rented; when does the lease renew? What rights do you have to accounts/assets and income?

If the fights are physical (literally knock down drag out) consider the consequences of a restraining order, yours or hers. Fighting damages your children, so if the only way to stop fighting is to separate immediately, do that instead.

Ask the lawyer about requiring disability insurance so she can pay support if she is injured doing a two person job by herself while sleep deprived.

Medicaid is essentially a form of welfare: bureaucratic, slow to process requests and payments, zero goal of competitive compensation. Not an employer preferred by anyone not desperate.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
So he can talk a little, but he is hard to understand and most of the time is completely lost. She is saying that being in the nursing home has caused that, but I don’t believe that. One of the nurses recently told her that that was his baseline, and she got into it with her disagreeing, saying that he does much better. He’s had an NG in him since the stroke, he can’t eat or drink in his own without aspirating. He actually ended up in the hospital about 6 months ago with pneumonia from aspirating some fluids, and she of course blamed the NH. I have no idea what’s going to happen or when..if I was to estimate I’d say within the next week to two weeks. I agree on counseling, can we afford it? No, but I will do whatever I can to try it.
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This is a tough one because I think your wife is living in a dream world but one that’s created by panic, guilt, love and who knows what else. My guess is if she were consulting with a friend wanting to do this because of her expertise she would say do t do it. But when we are in these crisis modes with our loved ones we get blinded by our desire to fix the crisis and often make poor decisions in the heat of the moment. I’m sure you have approached this subject with compassion but one or both of you couldn’t keep an open mind so now you are fighting which never accomplishes anything other than frustration in a case like this.

The home care help from Medicaid really depends on the state your in, some have good programs and some seem to have little to none but a quick computer search of your Agency on Aging or the equivalent, the state site under elderly and or disabled as well as your town who may have some services for at least pointing you in the right direction. It can take time however, especially since he has been in a facility because they are two different programs, at least that has been my experience. All of that said maybe approach your wife kindly and lovingly again (even if you don’t really feel that way at the moment) Ellington her you are open to ideas and want to really hear what she is thinking and feeling. Why was he put in a nursing home in the first place, who made that decision and why? What has changed since then for the better as far as his needs go? Why didn’t she want to take him in then and why does she want to now? You care about your FIL too and want what’s best for him and you want what is best for her, your children and yourself as well. Go from there and see if the two of you can more calmly talk through this obviously hot subject. You need to give her consideration and power in this decision just as she needs to give the same to you. The home and the kids are both of yours and both of your responsibility.

The things that should be considered here are other nursing homes if that one won’t take him back or can’t be forced to, who knows maybe another one closer to you has opened up but there is a better shot at getting him in from the hospital than from home so don’t bring him home until you have talked through the reasons he can’t stay in facility care.

It sounds like he might be a candidate for Hospice, I know they won’t put tubes in but I’m not sure how they handle a patient with one already, find out and maybe the two of you should sit down with them so they can tell you why they would take it out and if he would qualify with or without it because your wife may be able to see the forest behind the trees hearing what she already knows from another professional and if he wouldn’t qualify with or without the tube that also says something.

I can’t imagine wanting to move someone in on a feeding tube and bed bound already. Is he able to communicate in any way? Does he want to have the feeding tube? She isn’t thinking like a nurse rite now she’s thinking like a daughter. Nothing wrong with that and no surprise but if you can ask her questions that make her think like a nurse, what has to be done to care for a feeding tube, how will you get him to the bathroom, where will we put him, the kids need to have their rooms… Try, hard as I think it may be, to be support for your wife, go to meetings with other care professionals and participate, ask the questions she may not want to because she knows the answer, help her come to terms with the end of her fathers life here. Go out to dinner with the family, remind her of the things to look forward to, the things and people that give her strength and hopefully clarity. She probably feels trapped rite now, help her find the way out.

You aren’t wrong, in fact you are spot on but she needs to come to that conclusion herself and having some help and support is probably more likely to get her there than more stress and ultamatives. It may not too but try again.
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Cover999 Sep 2022
I think she" burned that bridge" with the current NH since she closed the account while he was in the hospital.
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O lord, I'm so sorry. Your poor children are likely going to suffer the most. If I were you, I'd see an attorney and do whatever you have to do to protect your children if she really goes through with this. As much as you may care for your wife, what she is doing is not only irrational, but it will also irreparably harm your family. not to mention it will be unsafe for FIL. There is no in home help that Medicare pays for. Medicaid possibly may offer some assistance, but you'd have to check with social services in your State. Don't expect much. I'm so sorry you are in this situation, but am especially concerned for your children.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
I will represent myself before I ever hire another attorney here. They are worthless, and you have a better chance on your own than relying on a lawyer. I would like to avoid divorce, I love my wife and family more than anything in the world, and I’m willing to do what it takes to find a solution. I understand that I will be the bad guy, and there will be resentment towards me, but I would rather take that role than the other way where myself and our kids have animosity towards her. I know that my side of the family would pretty much disown her if she does this, and so it’s been hard to use them as a support system. I’m having to use friends, some mutual as support and they are all scratching their heads wondering what the heck is she thinking.
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Read up about Fear, Obligation and Guilt (F.O.G.).

Print off an article you find that you think will resonate with her.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
Thanks, I’ll look into that. I know for a fact she is suffering from guilt. She didn’t have a good relationship with her dad or family when she was younger and now she is trying to make up for that. When he was healthy, they really never did anything together.
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Let me get this straight. Your FIL who is an invalid has been living in a nursing home for a few years.
Your wife who has never visited him there now wants to take him out of the nursing home and move him into your home.
Before any rash decisions are made and your invalid FIL is moved into your house, suggest to your wife that she start visiting her father in the nursing home a few days a week. You know to test the waters a little bit. If she had to take two days off from work because she had him for a holiday, this is not going to work out.
Your wife who is a nurse has real life experience dealing with CNA's, invalids, and elders. She knows there isn't going to be any 35 hours a week of aide care paid for by Medicare or Medicaid. That $800 a month income he gets isn't going to go far.
Your wife needs to hear a hard 'NO' from you on her father moving in. If she continues to be persist with this insanity, You will have to take your kids and move out. She will not be able to adequately care for two small children and also be a full-time caregiver to an elderly invalid.
Mstrbill is right. Your children will suffer the most. So will your FIL. Your wife for some reason wants to create the perfect conditions for elder and child abuse and she will if she tries to do this.
Make sure you have an exit plan for you and your kids. In the meantime talk to a lawyer about what's going on and what your wife is planning.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
See my other post for more info/background. This is such an expansive issue that it’s very difficult to type out every detail involved. I’m trying to give everyone the facts, and not sound one sided. I also don’t think that she cares whether or not Medicare/Medicaid covers any services, as she thinks she can do it all.
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I don’t know if you have school holidays coming up, but if so I’d suggest that you take the kids away while she brings Dad home. You are ‘letting her have a chance to settle him in without the problems of running the house’. It will avoid the initial ‘knock down drag fights’, and might bring her up to reality quickly.

I’d also visit the NH, tell them the story, and see if they will put the discharge on hold for two or three weeks. You pay, or perhaps they use the room for respite. You may be able to deal with this better after this ‘trial period’.

And certainly don't help her move all this furniture!
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kryptoid Sep 2022
I am never leaving my home, I’ve worked too hard on this place to leave, we rebuilt it together and just finished it this past year. It really upsets me that she wants to throw away all of our hard work. Too late to talk to the hospital, but I do think I need to talk to a social worker from the hospital about the case, hope they can intervene, but I’m worried it could cause more backlash if she sees me going behind her back.
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kryptoid, here is something that your wife might not realize... up to 40% of family caregivers die leaving behind the love one they were caring. Not good odds. Now what? Her children will be without a Mother, you without a Wife, and a Dad without his Daughter.

Let her know that could happen if she thinks she can do the work for 3 full-time caregivers each and every day.

I like Barb's idea of your wife going to the nursing home and do the work of all the caregivers on her own for 2 days. I vote for 3 days. Working all 3 shifts.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
I agree with you, but she won’t (can’t) go to the NH. At this point, he’s already checked out, so once he gets discharged from the hospital she will try to bring him to our home. Communication is poor from her, she’s not being transparent with me on most of his care, I’m assuming she doesn’t want to let me know so that she can just do a surprise he’s here move.
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As you realize, your children must come first. Not your father-in-law, and in this case, not even your wife. She is embarked on a mission that will have no positive consequences for any of you. So. Having an invalid sharing a room with your child is entirely inappropriate. The commotion, the smells, the exposure of private parts as he is cleaned up, the sickroom in general. NO WAY. Your wife cannot handle this job. Taking care of an adult in your FIL's condition is a three-person job, and there needs to be a main caregiver (presumably her), a relief caregiver, and another person to help them when needed. Special equipment may be required - do you have room for a Hoyer lift at his bedside? Oxygen tanks? How will you secure his medicines from your children? The bathrooms.....small halls and doors do not work. Period. I've dealt with this problem because I had to manage with 28" doorways to bed and bathrooms for a 185 lb. man who could not walk or toilet himself. I removed the doors myself - they were wood and very heavy - and hung a curtain from expansion rods at the top. That was all the privacy that was possible. And then there was getting a wheelchair through the 28" doorway. I had to modify his wheelchair by scrunching it up to a narrower size and fastening it on the bottom with wires. It was uncomfortable for him to sit in but there was no other way. Does she have the know-how and expertise to deal with all that sort of thing? Doubtful. I hope you'll lay down the law and that she'll come to her senses. One thing that might help is to tell her that you want no part of this and refuse to be around it. She may be counting on you to cave in to her demands, but for the sake of your kids, you really can't do that. My heart goes out to you. I'm sorry you're having the problem, and you don't need any more.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
So I agree with you 100% and I’ve brought up all of these points. As an example, I referred to his one visit that exhausted her for 2 days after. Her answer…that her dad “was fighting her” and that she didn’t get the right equipment. But I don’t care if you had a fully compliant house, it’s just way too much work for 1 person. She also thinks this will be beneficial to our kids, as if their time with him will help him get better. Our oldest is totally against it and has expressed his opinion. The youngest is too young to really see what’s going on, but he would be losing moms attention at a critical part of his age development. Oh did I mention we just got a new puppy? And she needs almost as much attention and training as the kids, I consider my pets part of our family, and I know she will be neglected as well.
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Stand firm.

It is reasonable that ALL the adults in the home get a say in who moves into it.

I know your wife says she will provide the 24/7 care, not you BUT by doing so she will neglect her role of; Wife, Mother & Nurse (+ earning?)

"My wife is a nurse".
She is not A SUPER HERO.

To think she is - is misguided (even narcissistic in a way).

So she is a nurse... she has that care instinct in abundance + no nonsense can-do practical skills + time management & organisations skills too.

But where is her Common Sense?

This is what I would do.
1. Explain your views again.
Set your boundary. IE if she takes Dad from the NH, she must go live with him elsewhere Or, if she moves Dad in - you will take the children & move OUT.
Explain again, her plan will BREAK your family.
She must find another way to help her Dad.

2. If no agreeable compromise, explain your views again - with her with a marriage councellor present.
It's amazing what a third party can do to let people start to HEAR each other & really get to the bottom of a situation.

3. Set a future path you BOTH agree on. Maybe a time limit is set? EG Wife & Dad move into an apartment for 6 months as a trial??

My guess is your Wife wants to be the *perfect daughter* & feels being the 24/7 is the way to show it. Wants approval from Dad even?? (I'm no shrink but have seen many, especially nurses, go down this path).

I would like to say GIVE IT UP LADY & find ANOTHER way.

Be the BEST *Advocate* you can for Dad instead.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
Thanks for the reply. I think I’m on your step 2. I’ve stood my ground very firmly for the past 3 years. She tried to move him in when he went into the first NH, and I went in and told them no way. They transferred him to the long term NH that he was in, but then ended up in the hospital and now she wants to move him in as she thinks the NH is going to kill him and she won’t be able to live if that happens (her words).

I don’t think getting an apartment is an option. Rentals are very sparse here, and there is nothing under $1000/mo, and that’s before utilities.

The only way this could go is, she moves him in, I file for divorce, court would force sale of house. She would make $ on sale of home and use that to take care of her dad. It wouldn’t last, and then the fact that even with unlimited money, no one person is going to be able to handle this task. And now she’s a single mom taking care of her invalid dad, or trying to. Maybe hearing from a third party would be beneficial
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First off, I appreciate the time that everyone took to reply back to me. I’ve been very depressed over this whole ordeal, and this helps out a lot.

I’ll try to answer everyone questions but I’m going to clarify a few things in this post.

1. we’ve never had a physical fight ever. I used the wrong term “knock down, drag out” but these fights are the worst we’ve had. This is really the one true thing that we have fought over, besides this our marriage has been great.

2. A lot of people asked, why didn't she visit in the NH, or she should go do a test run for a couple days. Well, couple reasons. First she got Covid twice and ended up long hauling it for a year, lost her job, no disability through her work. So she is one of these people who cannot wear a mask, and the NH is making no exception on that rule. Other reason is, and I feel this is the main reason. She says that if she goes to visit, she’ll want to bring him home. So guilt. Still to me, not a valid excuse to not visit. Her dad has 3 other adult kids, like I mentioned before one wishes he was dead, the other hasn’t visited but one time when he was here at our house for the holiday, so coincidental not planned. The other one has visited twice in 3 years.

3. Divorce is being mentioned, and lawyers. I went through a nasty divorce about 8 years ago, and I vowed I would never go through that again. I am so well versed in family law that I would rather represent my self, but again this isn’t an option. I love my wife and my family and I don’t want it to fall apart. I do agree, I need therapy individually and marriage, but I don’t know if she will go because she knows what they will say.

3. More info on options. We are in an area that got devastated by a hurricane 4 years ago. More than half of the NH’s in the area were destroyed and never rebuilt. The other family members are in bigger cities that would have more options, but again, I see very little effort to do anything. They are actually encouraging my wife to take their dad in, just so they don’t have to.

Overall, I know she feels guilty that she’s not providing care for her dad. I want what is best for him, I’ve probably visited him the most out of everyone. I’m pretty reluctant to start a conversation about it lately, because I know it’s going to end in a fight. I know that my wife is going to do what she wants no matter what, and that really upsets me. I’m putting my children first, and I honestly think that the only way for her to realize that this isn’t going to work is to try and do it. She also thinks that her dad is going to get better, that she is going to rehab him personally when it’s obvious that he is not going to improve, he’s actually declined over the past year.

Ill end this post with this bit of info. She does have POA with him, and I was pretty pissed off that she was the one to sign up for that task early on. I have asked her one sibling if he could transfer that to him, but again no action, just talk. I won’t ever leave my house, I did that in my first marriage and they used it as a way of saying I abandoned my children.

I’m praying to God that this will all work out, it’s caused tremendous strain on our relationship as you can all imagine. Thank you all for the support and advice, I appreciate it greatly.
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igloo572 Sep 2022
Was it Hurricane Zeta?
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Incotinence = nursing home, unless he's wealthy enough for private pay at his (NOT your) home.

No exceptions.

If your wife is so determined to have something in the home that does little more than lie around and piss in your house, buy her a cat.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
I agree 1000%. She uses the, “well, where I’m from, we don’t put our family members in nursing homes.” Oh we just got a new cat and dog. The pets will be neglected as well, but I will take care of them.
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OP, appreciate your clarifications. In this case, this is what I'd tell your wife.

1) FIL will not be taking over any child's room as said child will know about, if not witness, the bowel accidents, the feeding tube disconnects, and whatever slimy mess emanates, followed by the knowledge of death rattles and such. IN HIS OWN ROOM.

1a) She ships him there, she stays with him in your room while you are in one of your children's, or if you prefer, out in the living room sleeping on the marital bed that she's not welcome in for the duration.

2) Observe that if she can really do this, she can just go back to work, long covid or not. It's not like working at home through answering nurse calls or processing workers comp doesn't exist.

3) Do not offer to do anything for him. I mean anything. Do not get trained on how to assist her with a Hoyer lift. Do not mop up his fecal. Just tell her you're busy dealing with her kids for a choice that you never made.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
It doesn't matter where he would reside, she won't last 2 days taking care of him. I would probably scoop up the kids and go on a vacation. That way she can do it all. And on another note, I am the one who gets the kids up for school, picks them up every day, goes to the grocery store, cooks dinner, etc. etc..
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You're not going to get your wife to realize that she isn't capable of caring for her father in your home, that it's a horrible idea, or that it's going to tear your lives apart and upset your children's lives. She knows all that and doesn't care. She's made her decision, regardless of you being totally against it, and that's that. She's not thinking clearly, to put it nicely. She's had her father in a NH for several years already, so saying "where I'm from, we don't put our family members in nursing homes " just doesn't hold water. Or make sense.

You say, "please help!" How so? You won't move out, you tried that with the ex and it turned out to be a bad idea. Your wife has already checked her father out of the NH, so what are your options?


I'll wish you good luck and most of all Godspeed dealing with the hell that's about to break loose here, thanks to your wife who's refusing to take anyone or anything into consideration here but herself. I'm sorry for your kids, most of all. I think you should speak to an attorney about what
to do here, personally. Hopefully he'll have some guidance and suggestions for you that prove useful.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
Does she know it..she honestly thinks that she is going to rehab him and get him eating on his own and walking and going to the bathroom, etc. And when she said "we don't put our family in nursing homes" it was always when I explained that a NH was really his best option..and that I had grandparents that used them when their health declined...I'm the bad guy in all of this, remember that..while she feels this guilt, i feel the resentment.. if she moves him in that resentment will transfer to her from me and the kids (and others). While I wish there was an answer, I have already realized that this isn't going to end well..ive had many sleepless nights, lots of sobbing, depression, stress..so at what point do you divorce and go separate ways. Then i become a part time dad to my kids, and gamble that whole option..it's really tough, and I really appreciate the well wishes..thank you
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Sounds like this is going to happen no matter what. Maybe the universe will throw you a bone and he will die before she can move him into your house. Of course knowing the universe that's probably not gonna happen and he will live another 5 or 10 years.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
Yes, that's what I'm afraid of..I'm had close family friends say the same about him living another 10 years..and no matter what do not let him in, or you will never get him out. I'm not sure if I sound cruel, but both her and the dad are being very selfish..he has no quality of life, and he knows it...and if he had any pride he would have them take the NG tube out. I just had an uncle get sick, and he had no heroics, refused a feeding tube..and said he was done, and did not want to be a burden on my aunt who had already been taking care of him for years. I'm praying to the stars for any sort of bone..I just want everyone to be happy, life is too short to stress over this type of stuff. Now if we had the kids off to college, and had the time, energy and money to take care of him, we would do what we could. I asked the family if they wanted to all chip in monthly to help supplement his medicare so that he could move into a better home, but guess who else wanted to contribute? no one :( that really is another aspect in this situation, is that this guy burned most of his bridges in life, had no savings, no pension, no insurance, home, anything..i never had any problems with him personally, but when your old children wish you were dead you gotta wonder.
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“Where I’m from, we don’t put blah blah blah in nursing homes.” This is specious logic. Where she’s from, she isn’t anymore. What they do where she is from has no bearing on this case; if it is different here, that is our culture and she chose to live here. When she says that, she’s declaring her culture’s superiority and looking down at ours. Not only that, but nursing homes there are probably substandard compared to ours. Any chance that she and her dad could move back? It might be the perfect place for them. A one-way ticket for two would cost less than a divorce. Oh, and tell her she can take the puppy too.
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sp19690 Sep 2022
Why subject the puppy to this woman? Do you hate puppies?
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So sorry your wife is being so ridiculously unreasonable.

Do NOTHING to help her get ready for this train wreck. Do NOT allow her to move your children's bedrooms or make them share.

You've probably talked this to death but I'd say:
"I love you honey but I am 110% against this and am offering absolutely no assistance. I do not want your dad living here. It is not good for our marriage or our children. Or our budget. $800 a month social security? A nurse makes WAY more than that."

I like your idea of taking the kids on a trip when/if the dreaded day comes that she actually plans on taking him home to your house. Hmm, but then she might set him up in one of the kids rooms while you're gone. Might have to put locks on the outside of the doors to prevent that!

Even though you have no actual rights, I would call the hospital and let SOMEONE know that you, the hubby, are not onboard with her bringing her daddy home to your house and do not feel this to be a safe discharge.

Keep us posted. I am anxious to hear how this unfolds. I hope she comes to her senses, for everyone's benefit including her dad.
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Fawnby Sep 2022
If he puts locks on the doors to the kids’ rooms, that could be interpreted as some sort of abuse because she’s not being allowed to use part of the home. Also, he might return home to find all the locks changed so he can’t get back in and her possible charge of abandoning the home, just like with his last wife. Leaving temporarily seems like a good answer until we start thinking about this wife and how eager she might be to get rid of him, since she’s agreeable to breaking up the marriage so she can bring her father into the house.
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I'm curious if your wife is some kind of minority, they're usually the most adamant ones about caregiving in their homes. A "cultural" element of BS that's kept women down for centuries, if not millenia.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
Nope, not a minority. She's a very good nurse, who does a great job taking care of her patients. Now, after a long 10-12 hour day of taking care of them, she is pretty cooked...and that is why I see no way possible to do that every day, 365 days a year.
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Perhaps you misunderstood when I suggested going on vacation with the children when/if she moves him in. I didn’t mean to leave the house permanently. I did mean to let her work out what to do without you being there to argue with, or the kids to get upset. Yes she may well move the furniture, but that’s easily reversed if she finds that it’s all impossible. If you get a tent, it’s probably cheaper and easier than counseling, lawyers, marriage guidance – certainly cheaper than starting on divorce.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
Oh, we are definitely going on some vacations. The kids are at an age where I was planning to anyways, even if they are affordable quick getaways. And guess what, she won't be able to join us because she'll need to sit home every single weekend to take care of Dad. And divorce is that last thing I want, and I don't think she wants it either...but I do think we need a bit of counseling..we need a third party who isn't partial to either side. I hope that helps, I'm praying it does.
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I think Lealonnie, Fawnby & the others have it.

"And when she said "we don't put our family in nursing homes"

This. This is the crux of it.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
Ya, well she has an aunt who had her grand mother in a nursing home..so we all know that's not true. I mentioned this before..but when you are arguing, you say some stupid things, and some hateful things that you may not really mean. I know she is guilt tripping me on this whole thing, but I'm being realistic and only stating facts..I do need to control my anger when we do try to discuss this, but I'm sure everyone would agree that this would make anyone get heated.
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To add..

If Dad stays in the NH, she believes she has *failed* him, has failed as a daughter, is a *bad* person as judged by her culture.

*No NH ever!*
Why? What's the underlying belief behind that statement? Is it "people who LOVE or CARE don't put their LO in nursing homes?

I think the way could be for your Wife to find an acceptable replacement statement - to tell herself & maintain her cultural dignity.
(It is her own thoughts holding her in this guilt pattern afterall).

Something like, I tried everything, but Dad's care needs are just too high for me at home. He needs round the clock care by a full team. I wish it was different.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
Rational person, yes, that could work. Irrational, who thinks she is going to magically rehab him back to health, who thinks his condition is not that bad..I don't think it's going to work. She is pretty dead set on being his savior, even if it means destroying her own family. Now maybe she is bluffing, and seeing if I will back down..but I'm not and I'm not bluffing. I told her that I would like to have a group zoom call with all family members who want to be involved so we can all discuss the best option for him. And if no one else wants to move him into their homes, then why should I? I am the one who emptied out his apartment and stored all of his belongings, no one else helped. Oh, and he does have a wife, someone who he was married to before, lived in our town and was around him, but they didn't live together but hung around...as soon as he got sick, guess what? she picked up and moved out of state 8 hours away. I feel that she should be the POA, but she's definitely not signing up for that job. I believe they are only married, because he didn't pay his taxes on a business he had, and that business was in her name, so she's not letting him off the hook on those back taxes that are due. It's an entirely screwed up situation...and all I can do is pray, and continue being a Dad and a husband. I love my wife, I think she wants to do what is best for her Dad, and unfortunately she thinks that is taking care of him on her own.
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I’ve been thinking about talking to FIL. You’ve made it clear that you think he should ‘pull the plug’. Unless he is there already, that’s not going to go down well. Can you talk to him instead about what this is doing and going to do to his daughter and his grandchildren? That she will be broken hearted when she fails? Her health is at risk if she tries to work three shifts? That it will stop her putting her energy into his grandchildren's lives, like a mother should. That his grandchildren's last memories of him will be of him in terrible shape, incontinent and in pain until he dies? With their parents totally distressed? That everyone hopes to die in their sleep, but it rarely happens? That it is already putting stress on his daughter's marriage, and may well break it up? That she is suffering from an overload of guilt because she can’t accept that all lives come to an end? Ask him to talk about ‘our family’, who looked after ageing relatives, at what age and how long? As we all know, it was a whole lot different for previous generations when medical options were so limited.

It’s just possible that this approach might help.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
So, last time I saw him, he didn't even know where he was.. he's in and out of it..so having a solid conversation with him about anything, is going to be difficult, if not impossible. And even if he could comprehend, and I explained to him what this is doing to my family, I honestly don't think he would care. If he is still at the hospital on Monday, I will probably stop by or call and see if I can talk to a social worker there to get their advice. If they hear that our house is not suitable for him, then maybe they can prevent the move in. I will have to deal with the repercussions of that, but I'm willing to.
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So very sorry this is happening to you. I wish I had words that would help. Hugs
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kryptoid Sep 2022
Thank you, I appreciate the support. Everyone's support has really helped me out. I don't want to vent to my friends or family because they will think badly of my wife, and if things do work out (miracle needed) then you always have their thoughts and idea of your spouse in the back of your head.
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I read your other posts. Seems like you were in this same predicament back in 2020, and reason prevailed then (although you never came back to update).

You mentioned that your wife's brothers thought it was a good idea back then that FIL move in (why of COURSE they did; as MALES they figured it wasn't THEIR duty?).

How old are the kids now? The youngest is, what 4/5? And then there's a 13/14 y/o. You mentioned your oldest daughter, but then also a stepson. Are there 3 kids? (And if you divorced your previous wife 8 years ago, only the youngest child is your biological child?) Did you adopt the stepson?

You've stated that you will not move out of your house, since apparently you did that last time and then charged with abandonment. You've also stated that you are going to let it happen that your wife takes your FIL home from the hospital.

I'm wondering if you are really going to let her do everything by herself. I expect that you are going to step in and become fully embroiled in FIL's care when you are home "for the good of the kids" or some such belief.

Will you come back and at least update us this time?

I foresee divorce in your future.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
Ya, I'm sorry for not following up on the other post..but as the issue went away, I was hopeful that I wouldn't have to deal with it again, but here we are. So, she only has one other brother who even cares about the Dad, the oldest sibling wishes he was dead, and the other, well, he's just MIA. I've heard several excuses for why he's absent, but he lives about 5 hours away, and hasn't visited his own Dad so that tells you everything you need to know there. Let me break down our family structure. I have 2 girls from a previous marriage, they are around, but live with their Mother primarily. One is 13 the other almost 18, so honestly with their friends and school, and what not they are living pretty normal lives for young girls. It's a pretty long story on why they don't live with us, but I will say that they used to live with us when they were younger, but their mom convinced them that they do not have to live with me, even though we have a court order with shared parental rights. 10's of thousands of dollars were spent on both sides in that battle, it took over 3 years of my life, and that is one of the reasons why I will never go through that again, as it nearly killed me. But I am the one who helps with their education/school projects/studies, the one who takes them to school, picks them up from school, pays for things when needed, you know being their Dad..so that's all i can do there. My current wife had a son when I met her, so I have one step son who I consider my own, always have..and I've raised him since he was 6, he's now 14 and he just started a new larger public high school..and is just developing new friendships..he had a hard time making friends at his old school, as it was a smaller charter school..and that is also one of the main arguing points, is that he is at an age where he will be having friends over to hang out..you think they are going to want to hang out in his room with grandpa? No..her son is pretty upset about the situation, and is on my side, not that I'm making sides, but he is very smart, and he knows how it's going to play out. Her not considering his feelings is totally inappropriate, and unfortunately I don't have parental/guardian rights with him, as his father is still involved in his life, spends the summer time with him. I think the 14 year old would like to move to his Dad's, but unfortunately the Dad has told my wife that he can't move him in (remarried, more kids, no room, whatever..) And lastly, my wife and I had one child together, and he is 5 years old. He is the one that will be the most affected by this, he is already being negatively affected by all of the fighting..and I will not expose him to this any longer. I gotta run, but I'll answer your last question...so when she had her Dad stay with us for 2 days before, I did not help at all..that is one of the reasons she was shot for 2 days after. I thought that event would have been a wake up call for her wild idea of being his full time care giver, but I guess it didn't. I think this past hospital visit (UTI) triggered something in her, where she is blaming the NH on it, and the only right thing to do is get him out of there and into our home. We will see, and I promise to keep everyone updated on the situation, I hope it's good news. On a side note, we should have our first counseling appt next week, I hope it's not too late, and I hope it helps. Fingers crossed.
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My goodness, Kryptoid, you certainly have the sympathy of so many here. I cannot imagine the frustration that you feel, although it does come across in your posts here. You have not only yourself to worry about, but also your young children.

I second the opinion that since you have no "voice" whatsoever in what is about to happen, then you truly step back, offering no assistance, as your wife moves her dad into the home. Absolutely, leave for the weekend, letting your wife know that you are doing this FOR HER. Tell her that you are doing this to allow her no distractions as she gets her dad moved in and settled, and you will get the children out of the way....this allows you to be the GOOD guy, because you are thinking of her, and removes you as the target of her anger. The more that you two butt heads over this, the more ammunition she has to be angry with YOU. Don't give her that opportunity!

And then watch as things unfold....when she needs help with her father, be empathetic, and tell her that the best help you can offer to her is to take the kids out of her way, so you are going to get them ice cream of dinner or go to a movie, whatever.

As others have said, leave ALL the care to her. ALL of it. The most that you will do is remove the children to "give her the room she needs to care for dad", and you are doing this for HER. This is the support you offer her.
And when her anger turns to you for not helping her, you can point out that you ARE helping, you are helping in the best and most caring way possible-- allowing her the space and silence to care for dad, which you will have to point out, is EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTED.
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velbowpat Sep 2022
I agree with this 100%. Focus on your children. Keep their world as stable as possible.
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kryptoid... LONG HAUL COVID....you had mentioned your wife has been dealing with long-haul-covid to a point where she lost her job, etc.

People struggling with the effects of long COVID may have noticeable problems with attention, memory, and executive function. This sounds like a classic case with your wife. Therefore, no matter what you say, she will fight you tooth and nail.

If only your wife could see a neurologist, take tests, and see if there are any issues due to covid. Make up some excuse to make an appointment, even tell her the appointment is for yourself and you want her there for support, let the doctor know in advance what is going on.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
So, I agree 100%..i do think the long covid has affected her thinking and rationale decision making. That is one of the reason's why I want her to transfer the POA to someone else in the family. But do you think anyone is ready to sign up for that, NO. I doubt she would go to a neurologist, and to get an appt in our town for one is probably 3-4 weeks.
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