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Need some advice. I have a very small family. I'm 60, my brother 65, and our parents are both 90 - married 67 years. My brother entered the nursing home where I work almost a year ago (I'm not clinical - in administration). He lived his entire life with my parents. Due to his medical issues, he will not be returning home. My Dad has gotten progressively weaker over the past several years, and was housebound - my Mother doing the caregiving. About 5 months ago, my Dad became weak due to constipation and my mother sent him to the hospital and then to rehab. She told him she couldn't care for him anymore - and she was done with it. She left him in long-term care and I was given the task of getting him financially approved. She has spoken with him on the phone twice since then - no in person visits to either my brother or Dad (claims she doesn't like to be around sick people). This all occurred right at the time that nursing homes (mine included) went into lock-down due to the Covid pandemic.
My mother is a classic narcissist. We had a row about the fact that I was unwilling to quit my job and take care of her at home (I'm not financially able, or frankly, willing). Our relationship has always been strained. She got herself a caretaker (my age) that comes in several times a week who, in her words, "treats her like a baby and I just love it - she cooks for me, cleans, and tucks me into bed". I'm grateful that has been sorted out!
I'm having trouble coming to terms with how she can just wash her hands of people so quickly and easily. I witnessed it 30 years ago when she failed to come to her mother's funeral, and after her mother's death, she never had any contact again with her father.


I was at her house last weekend, and she gave me all my father's childhood photos - I didn't ask for them, she just wanted to get rid of them for some reason. She barely even speaks of him except to say "we had grown distant". I also had to remove the ashes of my aunt and uncle, even though they had been there for over 10 years because they made her feel "creepy". She's disposed of most of my brother's belongings because "he won't be coming back".
I just feel sad that it feels like whatever sort of "family" we had was just a sham - and it all fell apart over the course of just a few months. I feel sad at work when I see family members that come in to visit their elderly loved ones - they care! Intellectually I realize that this is a form of mental illness - this narcissism, but I just feel sad over the whole situation and I can't seem to move past the sadness.

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I can relate to your post.

After daddy died, suddenly there were no pictures of him in evidence, I never saw mother shed a tear. People who she met after he died just assumed she was a divorcee.

People who are totally self absorbed (narcissists) cannot think, feel or do anything unless it comes back to them in the form of praise or self aggrandizement.

Growing up, my mother always had lovely clothes, a huge house, anything she wanted, daddy provided.

I needed glasses and braces (typical kid things--not like I was asking for a Maserati or something) and I had my eyes checked ONCE when I was 9 and the glasses I got then had to last me 11 years. I paid for my own eye exam and contacts, which cost over $400 and this is back in 1972! The braces? Mom's will has a 'bill' in it that I am supposed to pay her trust back the cost of my braces before the will can be dealt with. She ENCOURAGED me to read her will, for years, and finally one day, out of boredom and waiting for her to get home, I did.

I was SO HURT that included in a will that forgives my YS a $60,000 'loan' a $1500 BILL for my braces. I put all 5 of my kids in braces and they sure as heck don't owe me a dime.

(My son is an attorney and I asked about this--since the codicil wasn't witnessed, it isn't legal. He called this a posthumous "FU" and people did it to have the last word. Still.)

Even now, at age 90, mother has to be the sparkly belle of the ball all the time. She wants to be the center of attention at all times. She sends cards to all the grandkids and great grands--not b/c she loves them, she hasn't even MET them all--but she does it so she gets the 'oh, N is SO SWEET'.

No, no she isn't.

I went through cancer last year. She did not make a single effort to contact me in the 8 months I was doing chemo. Not ONE PHONE CALL. Nothing. But she was getting massive amounts of attention at the Sr Center b/c 'oh, poor thing, she's worried sick about her daughter'.

I am at and have been at--the stage where I simply cannot invest any more energy in her or her life. She has lived with my YB and his family for 22 years. My SIL told me last week it has been the worst decision they ever made, and that she doesn't ever even talk to mother. How sad.

We cannot change these people. we can only set boundaries for ourselves. Mother is housebound, was before the isolation set in. She's starting showing serious signs of dementia--this is new, and I feel for YB who chose to bring her to his house and care for her. He will never put her in a NH, no matter what.

Honestly? I will not miss her, should she die. She's done so much emotional damage to a couple of us sibs--it will take some doing to forgive her.

Right now, I have just gone grey rock with her. She can't use her cellphone, so I am safe.

I am her worst trigger and she is mine.
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MsMazie Jun 2020
Oh I can relate COMPLETELY! Belle of the Ball sums up my mother completely. And she knows all my buttons! So self-absorbed. I never completely realized it till the last year. There was always a sense that she could cut you out of her life so easily. I think it's bothered me more recently because I realize that it's getting to the end of life for my parents, and so much seems unresolved. It's not going to be resolved, in my heart, I know that. Thank you for your guidance.. it DOES help!
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Oh, it hurts, doesn't it! I am so sorry. So very hard to figure out why, how could she/he be like that. Why couldn't she/he be like......(fill in the name). But for what ever reason she/he can't. It is that person's makeup. As hard as it is, you need to be kind to yourself. Remember each minute you spend thinking about it, you will never get back and you deserve each and every minute of your life.

There are so many things from years ago, that we will never know about, that added to our parents personalities. That was such a different time. How they had to deal with things as children, what they saw or heard, fears they had, or had to be quiet about, etc. This is what I call their makeup. And as they age this can be amplified!

So each time you start thinking, oh, I wish she was different.....STOP. She is who she is and with aging or dementia it will be even harder to understand, so don't even try. Just remember any special good thing or event to focus on. I have learned this after feeling the same as you, many times.
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marymary2 Jun 2020
I don't believe narcissism is always caused by something bad happening to a narcissistic parent. My narcissist mother was the favored child, according to her sister, and their family was not adversely affected by the depression, based on her father always being employed at a high level of a large corporation, them buying a new car and a new home during the depression.. My mother, according to her and her family, got everything she wanted as a child. She went to the hairdresser weekly as a child, was always dressed well and was the beauty of her school yearbook. I think she was born a narcissist or else the luxurious life she lived created her large sense of entitlement.

Whatever the reason, she had no qualms denying me the simplest of things as a child (my teeth and health have cost me a fortune from no braces, medical care etc) while buying herself the luxuries she was accustomed to.

Anyway, I've dug and dug and can find nothing negative in her life that would have caused her to be a narcissist.

Your advice is helpful though. Thanks.
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Nothing has changed or really been any different in 60 years of your life. It is part of growing up to understand that your "mother and father" are not just a mother and a father, but human beings, either more or less loving, either more or less capable of parenting, either more or less capable of learning. Merely people. More or less failed in most aspects of their lives. When it comes to us that our parents are not miracle workers who can and will provide for us all the love we need throughout our lives we can be considered grown up.
Will it make you HAPPY, that this has been your lot? Not really. But this isn't within our realm of "choice". People do not change in the ways we wish them to change because we wish it to happen. Narcissism is a personality disorder, but it can also be considered somewhat disordered to refuse to grow up and set aside the expectations we had when we were helpless children, the needs we had then are not the needs of a grown person who has lived a life. We have two chances at a quality family. One we are born into. May work out. May not. The other is the one we CREATE, and that is on us.
Stop the struggle. Accept who she is. Form a relationship with her in which YOU decide how often and when to be present. Forgive her. Made a quality life. That is on you. Your responsiblity. She was incapable of helping you earlier, and she CERTAINLY is now.
The time to grieve all of this is more or less over at 60. That is the time to set yourself free. Enjoy living a life YOU choose on YOUR terms.
Wishing you all the luck in the world. For your Mom I can only feel sadness.
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MsMazie Jun 2020
Thank you so much for your thoughtful answer. I have managed to create a loving son, with whom I am very close, and I put myself through school, have had a long career and am financially comfortable, and I am not generally unhappy. And you are right, I just need to let go and accept things as they are. Suffering comes from wishing things were other than what they are.
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You're trying to make sense out of something that is 100% senseless to a loving person such as yourself. It's kind of like trying to figure out the mind of a serial killer, wondering what makes him want to kill another human being? Who knows? There is a piece missing in the brain of a mentally ill person that renders them incapable of empathy or understanding or even, sometimes, love. In the truest sense of the word. Your mother may have been married and had children and all, but was she ever really capable of feeling true LOVE for another person? That is the real question. Because a person who's incapable of feeling love just doesn't act like the rest of us in society with respect to what they care about.

Take my mother (please!). She's 93 and I believe, incapable of love herself. She's done lots of the same things your mother has, such as getting rid of my father's things IMMEDIATELY after he died. She lied like a rug (as usual) telling me she had gathered a big bag of her stuff for Goodwill. What it actually was was a big bag of my father's stuff with a few pieces of HER stuff spread out on top to make it look like it was all hers. She also has no photos up of loved ones; has gotten rid of ALL of the family photos b/c they have no meaning to her nor do they serve a purpose. She doesn't even want the photo of her late husband of 68 years to be in her room at the ALF. She only speaks badly of my father when she does speak of him, which pisses me off immensely, because he was a kind and decent man. She too never attended her own mother's funeral OR any of the other funerals of her dead brothers, sisters or family members!!!

Nothing matters to mother but mother. I am an only child and at 63 next month, trust me when I tell you I have mourned the fact that I have a narcissistic type mother my whole life. I never had a mother I could talk to or confide in. A mother who would even try to understand who I was as a human being. Or a mother to encourage me to become somebody. Nope. Anything I tried to do she'd dissuade me from, telling me I couldn't do it so why try?

The way I look at is that SHE has a deficiency inside of HER. I do not have a deficiency inside of me, which is not to say I'm perfect, but I AM capable of love and acting like a decent human being. She is not. So I try to feel sympathy for her instead of resentment, and it's very very hard. Not easy at all. But if I don't figure out how to get rid of the resentment in ME and find forgiveness for HER, then she's ruined TWO lives (well, a lot more than 2, but you know what I mean). Resentment is like drinking poison & waiting for it to kill the other person. Right?

So I don't know how you move past the grief you're feeling except to work on finding forgiveness for your mother's mental illness. And to cut down your contact with the toxic behavior that emanates from her. And to put up an invisible shield of Godly protection around yourself every time you have to have an encounter with her, which is what I do. And I imagine holding up that shield to ward off all the bad vibes and ugliness that is pointed towards you during a visit or a phone call.

Wishing you the best of luck letting HER crap go and finding YOUR inner peace in the midst of the chaos.
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MsMazie Jun 2020
Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful reply. Like I said, intellectually, I know what the issue is. I think I just haven't gotten past the grief stage yet. I AM working on it! Forums like this help so much, because it makes me not feel not so alone and isolated. As an introvert, I have trouble talking to people face to face about issues. Plus, I was raised to be "strong" and independent. Thank you again for taking time out if your day to show me such compassion.
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From one fellow survivor to another; my heart goes out to you. My mother was also narcissistic; to make a really long story short, it makes grieving so much more complicated, doesn't it? My Mom passed away nearly two years ago from Alzheimer's-related complications, and I grieved the relationship we never had, and I am still in the healing process, It gets better I assure you. May I suggest a book I recently read that I found very helpful to survivors of Narcissistic, abusive, and/or neglectful parents. It has impacted my friendships and romantic attachments greatly. I'm in no way affiliated with the author, and I'm not compensated in any way; I just found the book to be of great help to understand why so many of my adult relationships have been troubled. It's called Ghosted and Breadcrumbed by Dr. Marni Feuerman. It also offers self-help and comforting measures you can use to make up for some of the rotten childhood experiences we had. Of course this can't take the place of professional counseling , but it's a terrific add-on to grief counseling or a grief support group to help you through these first months. Please feel free to message me privately if you'd like. I'm still on this message board because my Dad's health is failing and I really appreciate the advice and support this wonderful group of people has provided me.
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I know from experience that narcissists seldom (if ever) change. I agree that they are mentally ill. However, you are not mentally ill; you are simply stressed from years of dealing with extended contact with a narcissist. Try to create boundaries that prevent any narcissist (even a close family member) from impacting your life, if possible.

The only approach that seems to work, in my experience, is to show the narcissist that they cannot achieve their objectives (whatever they might be). Sometimes they will simply walk away from trying to influence you when they see that they are wasting their time. All narcissists see themselves as "the centre of the universe"--the only person whose goals, attitudes and needs matter. Possibly, if they see they are not the center of your attention, they will leave them you alone. I hope so. Even if they become angry with you when you have limited (or no) contact with them, that is much less stressful than constantly being confronted with their unreasonable and irrational demands.

Prayers and hopes for a better future toward which you already look to be headed.
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marymary2 Jun 2020
You're so right in all you say. One warning, Mazie though (based on my experience) when you take this good advice, be prepared for the possibility that your mother will toss you away. It hurts and I don't know how to tell you, Mazie, to steel yourself other than preparing your mind.
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I am sorry to read this. I am dealing with Deep sadness over family issues which skyrocketed when my mom had to go to memory care. A brother, my only sibling who shows little interest in moms needs, unless pushed, even to help with the visiting, and ongoing care of mom. I chose counseling to deal with my inability to get past my disappointment in family dynamics. It is a slow process but is helping me cope better. I can not change my emotionally detached brother and his uncaring gal pal. I can only change how I react to the lack of involvement. Try counseling..
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So many great answers here. I'm in this struggle myself with my mother, although my husband, brother, and sister-in-law are with me for emotional support. Isn't it interesting that the "whipping post" child becomes the only one who is "allowed" to be the caregiver. Two books that helped me are "Will I Ever Be Good Enough?" by Karyl McBride (recommended on this forum) and "Do Yourself A Favor and Forgive" by Joyce Meyer. While I'm improving in my personhood, I still grieve what never was and never will be. But by understanding her mental illness better I am moving toward more peace in my heart. Blessings on your journey.
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If you are on Facebook please look up Melanie Tonia Evans. She has a program to help people through narcissistic abuse. This is so eye opening that there is so much hurt caused by these people. I think listening to you tube messages also if you google narcissistic abuse can help you start to distance and guard your heart- grieve what could have been, should have been and realize that maybe your Mom did everything she could do emotionally. I think people have an emotional range kind of like we each have physical abilities- not everyone can run marathons. Not everyone has the same values or deals with death or hardships in the ways we ourselves would. I wish you peace. Time helps. Imagine Releasing your pain and anger and hurt to God- like shedding an uncomfortable heavy wet dark coat and handing it to God can release the burden and help you feel lighter and less encumbered so you can take a deep breath and begin to live your life in a more balanced and happier understanding of human frailty. Your strength is in your knowledge and understanding of your gift that you can love, you can feel, you can show caring and actually mean it and that is a blessing to those who know you.
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marymary2 Jun 2020
Melanie's vids are sometimes helpful, but often they seemed geared towards a narcissistic spouse or partner. I've considered her course though. Did you do the paying course and if so was it helpful for someone with a narcissistic parent? (P.S. Inner Integration on YouTube is good too)
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MsMazie, I read your reach out. I also am in the midst of understanding the aging with my narcissistic mother. Society in the past has seemed to "delegate" duties to females to complete the essence of family and those elderly's in need or to be accepting/dubbed as the 'Caregivers'! I work too, have to! Simple Background. My spouse tried to relay a 'Baton' of his family when their family/aging parents needs came to be. My spouse Couldn't/Wouldn't take on the role ALONG with me as he basically abandoned his folks and didn't want to discuss a Plan of Action Nor want to have what I call as the Talk/Conversation or Family Conference!! I'm not into Hidden Agendas much. Their ideal was that it was just to be up to ME to clean up their past family decisions and carry forth........ He and I had been married since 1985 with 5 kids of our own since marriage.. As his parents aged, His narcissistic view point of a female/wife came down to me questioning him against My family/religious beliefs about people and family dynamics. I worked, put him thru upper school education, 5 little ones and no help, not even from hubby.. As His folks aged, they all began to look at me ( as a female family member/Nurse) to be the one to 'step in & step aside' to do the 'Honorable' task without any Reassurances for myself!! His folks have since then passed and not because of that, but I divorced him for other reasons of chauvinistic traits/behaviors. I've dubbed 'It or Them/Those' as 'User Friendly'!!! I'm moving on yet still have that other segment left in regards to my basic root family & my mother along with 3 brothers & 2 other sisters still living to assist with 'HER' care. Basically, (the boys eg., my brothers) have control of her 'assets/bank accounts & financial decisions, while they feel that the nurturing/caring/hands on needs should be herald to my sisters an I. Again, I work to, Have to! So, it seems that the 'Nast, in family is all where you put YOURSELF in the 'Place Value' system and You Need to Speak Up and Out for what makes You Feel Best!!! Stop FEELING Sad!!!! Move forward without guilt or blame Those who 'Block Channels' of life's fluidity are the ones that need to be more challenged... Some will spend 45min. of time trying to get out/around of 15 min. of valued work. (Everbody Loves Raymond sit com: Ha)) Speak with pure definition, value and eloquently about Who You are & What your Willing/Capable of doing!! That to me is what a Lady in today's time Should Do!!

I wish you my Best!!! :)
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After awhile it is easy to hate a narcissist, they are difficult and arrogant. They have a sense of entitlement and are grandiose to the point of total obnoxiousness. And they love to tear you down. It must be very hard when your mother is like this. I'm sorry your life was lived in this drama. I suppose the only thing you can do is forgive her. It may take awhile, but you would be better off for it and the sadness will pass.Take care
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marymary2 Jun 2020
On the forgiveness part, I don't see how it's possible if you're still in the situation. Once the situation is over, it seems like a good idea, but how can you forgive and then a minute later be hurt again. Then forgive, then be hurt again. I found it impossible to forgive when the hurting never stops.

But I welcome any suggestions. Thanks.
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Seems she is doing her "death cleaning" - a Scandinavian term for streamlining a home in one's older years. This may be her way of dealing with "loss", but it most definitely is not yours. Her actions seem to exacerbate your feelings of loss. Realize she is different and you can not change that. Do what you consider to be helpful. Keep in touch with your dad and brother. Take the momentoes your mom gives you. Maybe even "help" her with this cleaning so you can preserve the memories that are important to you.
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I’m sorry for your pain and sorry you’ve never experienced a caring, loving mother. I hope you’ll get some counseling to help you work your way through your thoughts and feelings. And I hope you’ll focus your love and energies on the true family your have left, your husband, father, and brother. I wish you the best
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marymary2 Jun 2020
Good advice, to which I would add (based on my experiences), Ms. Mazie might want to ask the therapist if they have experience and knowledge about a narcissistic parent. The last thing you want to do is harm yourself more and pay for a therapist to tell you "oh, a mother couldn't do that" or "I'm sure your mother didn't mean it" etc. Many people who had loving parents aren't able to fathom that a mother is not, as society often makes it appear, a saint.

Really grill the therapist on what they know about narcissism (after you read about it online) because I've found a lot say they know everything but once you get in there and relate a horrible thing that your mother's done, the therapist questions it rather than helps you deal with it.
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I can truly relate to what you are saying. it's so difficult to continue to love and respect a Narcissist - when they constantly tear you down, criticize you, manipulate you. I'm soooooo tired of dealing with my mother who is a classic narcissist! I FINALLY realized (after counseling) that SHE is the problem...not me! Yes it is normal to want your mother's approval but I feel like I no longer need it. She's 93 and is really going down. She has moved back in with me for the past 3 years. She was supposed to move into a senior apartment but then changed her mind and didn't. I think she can't stand the idea of me having any kind of joy or happiness in my life. I've gotten to where I just ignore the stupid things she says. Once I really let her have it when she kept on and kept on and then she told ME I could be picked up for elderly abuse! She's crazy IMO. She needs help - but will never admit she has done any wrong. She's pissed off most of the family who now have nothing to do with her. She thinks I'm supposed to quit my job too and probably take care of her. Nope not happening. I'm single, and life is expensive. I have a great job and a happy, appreciative boss to come to work to. I'm very blessed especially during these difficult times. I keep the house clean, take care of everything, take off from work to take her to her appointments. Buy a ton of groceries so she is well stocked. I plan to tell her soon she needs to make a plan because she is getting more feeble by the day. I merely asked her yesterday if she was continuing to lose weight - she got mean and ugly. And said I was yelling at her! Far from it - I'm so tired of situation and hope I can keep the fuse from blowing up. I have no close relationships with my family - my brother who lives 15 minutes away is of no help. He's also the most angry person I've ever met - has attached me physically and verbally during our lives and I don't care if I EVER see him again. I'm close to a few cousins but they are all getting up in age. My mom acts like I'm not even my own person - just an extension of HER...CLASSIC NARCISSIST! Good luck - get counseling as it really helps. It made me realize how strong I am and how toxic some of my family is. Good luck and God Bless!!!!!
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Flowerhouse1952 Jun 2020
Your mom needs to go to a home and let you get on with your life.
Too allow yourself to be her whipping post is on you...not her.
I'm sure she's also got some dementia going on. Go girl and be happy!
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I found the YouTube videos on narcissistic mothers helpful. Also, there is a website "DaughtersofNarcissisticMothers.com". These at least made me feel I wasn't alone.

The worst part for me was that my mother, after me spending a lifetime doing for her, has thrown me away without a thought and knowing that I have no one and nothing. In retrospect, she never did help or care about me, during serious illness or any of life's ups and downs. It's hard for me to not continue to feel that I am utterly worthless, and that negatively affects every aspect of life.

Once you sign up for any of the narcissist stuff online, you'll get a plethora of info. Most of it is geared towards identifying a narcissist, but once in a while a helpful tip comes along or you may find an online group where chats can be a support for you. Wishing you the best.
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disgustedtoo Jun 2020
"It's hard for me to not continue to feel that I am utterly worthless, and that negatively affects every aspect of life."

Try as best you can to put the negative thoughts about yourself, which are an extension of HER out of your head. Focus on what you do for others and yourself instead! We ALL have worth in life. Many of us deal with those who try to tear us down, whether they are family, "friends", coworkers or just some random person. YOU know yourself better than anyone, YOU know what you do for others, how you work, how you care. Don't let what others think of you define yourself!

It took me a good 30 years to figure out that no one out there is really any better than I am. Some smarter in certain areas, some more adept at sports or fixing things, etc, but we ALL have some worth in life! I don't consider myself perfect, far from it, but I am not what my mother, father, brothers or anyone else think I am. If possible, avoid those who try to put you down and surround yourself with caring people!
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Something I've not read from folks yet. So mother took care of your father. Do you know what an undertaking that is? Day in and day out 24/7 for however long. You can no longer enjoy life as you would like.
Emotions are magnified when it's up to a narcissist to do all the caregiving with no help from the family. Is it any wonder that by the time her husband passed or sent to a home, She was already burned out, exhausted, worn down, depressed etc?
By the time her job was over, she's wanting to erase any and all memories of that horrible time for her. Could it be she wasn't as much of a narcissist as you think she was? She cared for someone24/7 besides herself. Did she have help? Probably not much.
Another thing...what kind of a marriage did they have? Was she forced to comply with his wishes?
Was she a so called narcissist because she was trying to eek out any time for herself because she was so consumed by a demanding husband and children?
I'm in no way implying this is what went on but I've come from a 46 year abusive relationship with demanding children whom I love dearly and gave everything I had to all of them. There was nothing left for me. Once the kids were grown and gone, ( all turned out to be highly respected and well behaved adults) then here came the MIL that needed care giving. Then my own mother. Then husband got sick so there was more caregiving. He only wanted me to care for him. He finally passed 4 years later. At that point I was relieved of all my responsibilities that now I could concentrate only on myself and my needs. I also got rid of his stuff. No pictures on my wall of him. I do have1 picture of him in a corner I rarely go but it is only for my families sake. I'm free at last. I'm now able to do all those things I was never been able to before. If that makes me a narcissist, then so be it. I've served my time taking care of everyone else but me. Now it's time for me. Grief strikes and affects folks in many ways. I also grew up with a mom that never told us she loved us or was proud of us. I realize she done the best she could. I love myself. I'm a good person. I no longer feel the need to hear it from anyone. If they don't like me oh well. I can look at myself in the mirror and be proud of who I am....a person who at the young age of 18, became an army medical specialist and have taken care of people all my life because I felt that was my calling. Now I get to take care of me. I'm soaring.
Don't let your mom drag you down. Lift yourself up. You've done the best you can so get on with life. It's way to short. Best of luck to you always.
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disgustedtoo Jun 2020
Can't speak for much of the care-giving or how it might have warped people (raising 2 kids from a very young age was the biggest task for me) - I did what I could for mom while she was still in her own place, but basically I made sure she is in a safe place and is well cared for, plus manage everything else for her. She's still there, almost 97 going on 2, living about 40 years ago. Sadly while they are on lock down I can';t interact with her. Between very bad hearing and dementia, it would be very hard to arrange any kind of interface, whether online or through glass. Hopefully she will still remember me when we get to visit again! If not, I will still go and ensure she gets treated well.

I did get a little chuckle out of your self assessment - all I could picture was Stuart Smalley looking into the mirror saying "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me!" Although this is an old SNL reference and Mr Franklin has been disparaged for some poor choices from years ago, the skit is so apropos! It really does say it all - you have to assess your own self worth and self care, and not base your image on what anyone else says or thinks!

Between lack of parental support and an abusive OB, I was VERY self-conscious and had little self esteem. It took me almost 30 years to get beyond all that. Far from being perfect, I CAN look in the mirror and feel that I AM good enough, I AM smart enough and indeed people DO like me!!! (for those who don't, I consider it their loss and try my best to avoid them - we don't need additional negativity in our life! It's too short to deal with that!!!)
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I am so sorry you are going through this. Narcissism is a terrible thing for everybody around the narcissist. I don’t really have advice, I just want to say stay strong. Trust your instincts. Don’t beat yourself up. Be glad you are not her.☺️
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I received some advice years ago which helped me. "People do what they know how to do" was the advice and it's helped me a great deal. By no means does it excuse the bad behavior of others, but it has helped me tremendously with understanding it a little bit. Poor treatment from someone in many cases isn't personal - it's what the person "knows how to do." However, it sure feels personal and it's abuse. Again, doesn't mean one should tolerate it, but it's given me some clarity as to WHY it happens. We can't control these people and they are not going to change - situation works for them just fine. They don't have to build new skills and it's rare that they will do so. If someone like this is learning a new skill, it's probably because they will use that new skill to further manipulate in a more efficient way. They will not be trying to be a nicer person or mend fences "just because" they one day realized all the pain they have initiated. If it's working for them, they will keep doing it. We can only control our responses to that person. People like this cannot tolerate anyone differing with them in any way - even over something small. They will cut someone out of their lives over something silly if they view the other person as noncompliant or disrespectful. They do what works for them. If our responses make it stop working for them, a lot of times they find someone else. And, we do grieve those losses - even if the relationship was not healthy.
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Mazie,

Children of narcissistic parents have low self esteem, don't trust their own feelings, and think their worth is measured only by their "usefulness" to others. Narcissists use their children for their own selfish purposes, never thinking (or not caring if they do) of the consequences to the child.

Give up the dream of a loving mother. She will not, cannot change. I resigned myself to the fact that my mother was and is mentally ill, incapable of real love and was totally unequipped for motherhood. History bears out the reality. I forgive her for the self-doubt she sewed, the innocence she stole, the love she denied. The manipulative puppet-master tactics, the discord she sewed in our family; the sick, twisted punishments when we didn't comply. The friends and relationships she destroyed or compromised.

Let it go if you can, but remember: forgiveness doesn't include providing opportunity and access to keep hurting you over and over. Do what you must to protect yourself.

Become your own mother. Cultivate self-care by taking care of your own health, mental and physical. Collect people and activities that bring you joy, peace, and positivity. Discard the rest.

It took me many years to arrive at what peace I have. It's a process. You can read between the lines; there is bitterness still. But I'm working on it. One tear at a time. And you can too! (((Hugs)))
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Mazie, I am so sorry you are going through this. I think Flowerhouse made some valid points. Yes, growing up with such a mother was very hard and affected the rest of your life negatively. Yes, she was your father's caregiver for a long time, and your brother's to an extent. Now she's done with that and moving on. Be grateful she hired someone to care for her and is satisfied with the caregiver. It relieves you of that burden.
The whole situation is sad, and she will not change. So I suggest you visit your father and brother when you can, and move on with your life. She is dealing with things her way. Its good she offered the old photos and other items to you instead of just throwing them away.
Ccounseling may be helpful for you too. It's never too late.
Best of luck to you.
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Getting Old is not for wimps, neither is Caregiving! I'm sorry this is getting difficult for you. We each have our own path, some more difficult, when family ages. Sounds like your mother avoids/ignores to deal with life's difficulties. Good of you to try and understand and to 'take the high road.' Aging can bring mental issues to be more pronounced (narcissism) or bring dementias. I wouldn't say your family was a 'sham.' Remember the good times, they were real and sincere. Can you talk to a therapist about your thoughts on this? Just to vent and get advisory? Your feelings are normal and you are not alone. Many of us Caregivers are walking this same path. Peace is the goal.
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It is hard to understand how other people tick, especially when you are related to them! How is it I feel like this, but mom, dad, sibling is like that? We are all wired differently and react to various situations in life differently. Sharing genetics doesn't mean we will turn out the same!

As the saying goes (something like this):
You can pick your nose, you can pick your seat, you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family!!

I wouldn't categorize my mother as narcissist, but she was lacking some skills that I would have preferred she have! Many methods of raising kids and punishing were learned traits. Too many people follow in their parents' footsteps - I often read comments from people that say my parents did this or that and I turned out okay! Maybe it worked for that person, but for me, I swore I would NOT raise my kids like that! Physical punishment, to me, is just a lame excuse for being abusive. It didn't make me a "better" person, it made me hate my parents! You also can't let kids run wild, so I had to use my smarts to get them to understand what was okay and what wasn't, both at home and out in the world. No rules really, just strong advisories and warnings that actions do have consequences! Worked for me and I didn't have to be a heavy handed mom!

Anyway... yes, it is sad to feel like your "family" life was a sham, but understand it was nothing you did. Although I don't consider mom a narcissist, OB is a different story. He was abusive to me when we were growing up (physical, verbal, emotional.) I thought he got over that, but I thought wrong. During his last trip here to help clear out mom's condo so we could sell it, he proved that he is still that same abusive little jerk, just a lot older and bigger! So, he is no longer welcome anywhere near me, ever!

Even before this incident, I found myself getting angry with both brothers and their lack of understanding about how to manage mom, her care and the condo. I started an email draft to each one to express how I felt and periodically added to them. In the end, I never sent them - they still sit in my draft folder, untouched for several years now! It was in some way cathartic for me. I was able to get it out into the email and expunge it! I realized my anger was not hurting them, only me! So, I had to get it out and let it go. I still resent some of their behaviors and lack of concern for/care of our mother, but they are who they are. I don't react to it and move on. Sending the emails would not have improved anything. More than likely it would just escalate things, so I leave the emails there and move on with my existence! OB, as far as I am concerned, is no longer welcome in my life. Once mom passes, YB will end up there as well. He isn't nearly as bad, but leaves a lot to be desired sometimes (snarky almost abusive texts, not responding to important issues, trying to get out of taking mom for necessary treatment, etc - he is, after all, also POA for mom. OB is not, thankfully!)

We don't need negative or abusive people in our lives. Forgive? Maybe. Maybe not. Why should I have to forgive them for their behavior? Forget? Some. We can't forgive and/or forget all, lest we end up reliving the cycle and repeat mistakes! For me, they are all who they are. I can't change them and have no desire to try anymore. I have enough to do to manage my own life and mom's, plus stay in touch with my kids. Once mom is gone, I can use that time for myself and all the things I had planned or hoped to do when I retired, plus spend more time with my kids, once the restrictions go away!

Don't be hard on yourself. Focus on the good things in your life and let the rest hang out to dry! I also wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to understand how others think or react. It is their life, their choices and you can't really change any of that, only how you react to it!
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Imho, it may be too late for her brain to learn pleasantries. Prayers sent to you.
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I'm so sorry you are in this pain. Be gentle and loving to yourself.
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Be glad that you have the choice of being around her or not. Soon I will begin year four of bringing Mother to live with my family. Over thirty years ago I moved to another state and made my own life. I never realized that she is a covert narcissist until I took her in. Over those thirty years I just went back for visits, so her behavior wasn't really noticed. Now, being with her everyday, I understand the past more clearly.
I don't know how to get past the grief of what never was other than to try to accept that they have a mental illness.
Take comfort knowing your pain is understood by so many of us daughters of narcissistic mothers.
Be thankful you don't have to live with her.
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Hello,
I understand exactly what you all are experiencing. I’ve been seeking answers for awhile and found this book titled Will I ever be good enough? By KARYL McBride. It is help me sort out so many things regarding my narcissistic mother in assisted living and I’m also in therapy sorting out the grief that goes with it. Lots of praying helps too. Yvonne
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Hello MsMazie,

It's OK to be sad. As a daughter of a narcissistic father who is doing his best at hurting everyone around him before he dies I understand (well I think I do) how you feel.
I let myself cry all the time now, it's better out than in.
I too look at normal families and get upset (we were and have never been normal) but the fact is no one is normal.
Unfortunately for us, our parents have a mental health condition that can't be treated and part of the symptom is their complete lack of empathy towards others.
I get sad every day, and I'm OK with that.
I talk to a counsellor a couple of times a month, and tell friends the terrible stuff, to vent, sure, but to also hear people's reaction to my fathers' behaviour. Every time someone is speechless or shocked I think "It's not me, I'm not overly sensitive, his behaviour is atrocious" and it helps me move away from him mentally.
Your Mother's behaviour towards her husband and son is terrible, cold and heartless. There you have it, she leaves people behind when she no longer has a use for them. She did it to her parents, now her husband and child.
Please be careful around her. She can't be trusted. She's not safe.
She doesn't have your best interests at heart.
For years I worked with severely autistic children and young adults, and I learnt to ignore negative "behaviours" because to challenge them or try and change them would lead to violent outbursts.
Just recently I wondered why I didn't approach my father this way. As someone who suffers a behavioural/emotional disability, and who will never change. Yes because he's my father I wanted his love, admiration, empathy. All things he doesn't have to give.
I'v been angry and sad for years. And he doesn't care.
Now I have cut my losses. He can't be a father. Never could. And I'm not willing to be a "good" daughter, I am willing and able to be good to myself and show myself love and compassion, by keeping away from him.
Take good care of yourself. Don't waste any more energy on your mother, she's not worth it.
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MarcyG Jun 2020
This is one of the most spot on answers I have read. I’m actually going to copy it off and read it occasionally to help me deal with my narcissist mom.
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Hi Ms. Mazie- I'm so sorry you are going through this. My mom is a narc too, so I know exactly what you are talking about. I have decided to deal with her by getting smart on the topic and joining forums such as this one for support. There are several good books on Narcissist Parents on Amazon and Audible. I recommend listening to them: you will learn so much about what a lifetime of dealing with this person does to your psyche. Your words about your mom becoming "a baby" also ring true- they don't want any responsibility, just to be cared for. Please take care of yourself. Take time off. Don't stand for the abuse. Verbal abuse can be just as damaging to one's psyche as physical abuse is to the body. I have my own counselor to "arm me" with dealing with a mad, 2 year old toddler stuck in a 93 year old's body. Good luck and hang in there.
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You have all rights to feel sad and that your family was a sham. I feel the same way. My mother is a narcissism as well. My mother promised me that she would not get rid of my dad's clothes for a few months after he passed; however, she got rid of most of his things less than a week after he passed. She never talks about him unless I bring him up. As of tomorrow he will be gone for 6 yrs and she won't say anything about it. She hasn't talk to my low life brother (golden child) in a year and she could care less. But that is how narcissistic people are.

From my understanding narcissistic people are wire differently then you and I. They don't have empathy or sympathy. They think very highly of them selves but have a very fragile ego. They take no responsibility for anything they say or do--it's always someone else's fault! The world is wrong and they are right and that is that!!

I am just very sorry that you have to feel this horrible unspeakable pain. Your not alone! There is so many of us on here with heartless mothers.

Let yourself cry over the lost of your family and the lose of what you thought you had...over the mother you wish you had! That is what I have done. These mothers cheat everybody (in the family) out of so much and they have no insight at the pain & damage that they cause.

Hugs!!
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