She uses about 1/2 of her house for storage of her many belongings. She has so much stuff crammed into these storage rooms that it is difficult to move around for an agile person and is definitely not safe for her. Even though I have asked her repeatedly not to go into those areas, she goes when she is alone. If she falls or otherwise hurts herself, am I liable in any way? Some family members would love to cause problems and I am trying to figure out the best way to resolve this situation.
What is causing her stress?
Is she seeking mementos? Looking for something she lost? Trying to clean up?
These tasks may be too stressful or dangerous. See if you can help her resolve whatever is bothering her and make sure the place is safe when she is alone.
As for the threatening family members, would they like to help? (Probably not). Do they just want to criticize?
i learned my scheming family members were trying to put mom in a nursing home behind my back to conserve their perceived future inheritance. Watch out for this type of vulture.
That said, once a caregiver is hired full time, the problem stops dead in its tracks b/c while supervised, MIL cannot go into these dangerous rooms and get hurt as a result. As her POA, you and her son are responsible to see that she's kept as safe as humanly possible. Meaning she needs help in her home or to be in managed care with others looking after her on a full time basis, making sure she's fed, medicated, bathed, and safe.
People tend to wait until an elder's dementia is SO advanced that they're wandering off at 3 am getting lost or leaving empty pots burning on the stove before they say 'uh oh, I think she needs full time supervision.' By then it's too late in many cases. Your MIL is showing very impaired judgement with her decision making abilities, and if you stop and think about it, it's likely not just about insisting on going into cluttered rooms even after telling you she wouldn't. What other instances can you think of where MIL is making poor decisions?
MIL has already shown you, repeatedly, that she's making poor decisions on an ongoing basis. Believe her that these poor decisions WILL continue to happen.
Wishing you the best of luck getting help into MILs home on a full time basis.
MIL / She is in a precarious situation where she could injure herself - or worse.
If you are the POA, you have some authority to make decisions on her behalf.
* Sounds like you need to come to some resolution or decisions about your role / legal responsibilities and the family dynamics.
* If I were in your situation, I would :
- request meeting with the 'family problem causers' [always have a witness w/you if a group meeting];
- contact attorney or whoever wrote up the POA;
call APS (Adult Protective Services)
OR
- one or all of the above.
* If you cannot be effective in assisting your MIL to keep her safe, something has to change.
Thank you for writing us. Perhaps others here have more ideas / supportive responses than mine. I appreciate you reaching out to this community. And appreciate the bind / situation you feel you are in. I know . . . these legal responsibilities we take on are not easy to manage. And, it is an immense responsibility.
Gena / Touch Matters
POA’s and caregivers work against interests of the elderly person and themselves as the primary caregiver or primary contact for the elderly person, when they update, discuss things with non-caregivers, non-legally appointed people even family.
This invites drama with “too many cooks in the kitchen” and giving power to these sideline people to insert themselves and their opinions into your assisted duties and into decision making for the elderly parent. This is NOT in best interest of elderly parent if it’s causing him or her and/or you stress.
Moreover there can be medical privacy violations if you update and disclose such. You don’t work for the family members. You work only for the interests of the elderly person who gave you POA.
You must let these other family have access to the elderly person of course so long as they are not physically, psychologically, financially a threat to the elderly person. You must do this or be accused of elder abuse for denying elderly person access to their family and socializing which is vital for overall health and wellness. No saying this is at issue in your case, just saying POA doesn’t give right to isolate elderly from family. So if famiky wants updates, the can speak direct with elderly person for such updates if the come over or call. You are not a POA to make learning about the elderly person easier for family. They have duty to socialize, send cards, call their elderly parent for uodates from elderly parents.
Too often, other family feels entitled to info while not taking time out of their own life ti visit with it socialize with elderly person. Don’t tell them you have no duty to uodate them since not permitted in POA. Just tell them to come by and ask their parent directly.
You do have right to establish dates and time and length of time to come by or call for welfare of elderly person. These must be the same each week so as not to be accused of working against these other family and must include non working days of the visiting family.
If other family pay or help pay for support of elderly parents, it changes nothing if they are not the POA. It is not a pay for privileges to insert one into decisions of the POA or caretaker. Again, remember you concern is the person who gave you the POA or who you are caretaker of. Be respectful to family but stop over-sharing as it only causes drama for your elderly patient and you.
It’s only after a person is certified by two doctors (in CA) as unable to care for themselves that you are required to take action. Different states have different requirements but in CA two doctors need to do examination and tests to determine if a person is able to safely make own decisions. If not, in CA two doctors must sign or ferried she is not. Only then do others have right to make non financial decisions.
A POA can become active only when signed, a specific date, or if deemed unable to understand or care for oneselves by two licensed doctors, one who has taken care of patient for years. So your POA may not yet be active just because your named in it. But for here I assume it is active.
Also, POA is for handling finances generally. It can have add on statements besides generic POA language. So if a POA is activated by date or condition, it doesn’t automatically cover everything in the elderly patients life. So read it for the sections that would justify you doing what people herein suggest or moving her. Technically, a full conservatorship is required for managing issues not in the POA.
in CA for example a POA nominates a conservatorship but only a Judge can approve you as conservatorship. Others States may not have this same language.
if elderly person disagrees with any attempts to clean or remove her items, even if POA permits this, then you need conservatorship.
ita best to clean it out when she’s gone to avid emotional distress for her. Depending on how bad it is, it may be a welfare and safety issue for her and absolutely required.
Thing about hoarding stuff is that one can have it and NOT have dimentia. Many fully functional people have hoarding mental illness. It’s gives them comfort and security to have all that stuff.
And merely because someone has dimentia doesn’t mean their hoarding is absolutely because of dementia. There are levels of dimentia. Mild and moderate people can still make own legal decisions like my Mother and live alone with nearby relative and caretaker coming in like you wisely have.
A day will come when she can’t be their alone and have to either move out or have care taker come for longer and eventually palliative care or hostess. The nurses that as assigned May refuse to work with your mother in a residence replete with crap thst is unsafe and unhygenic to work around.
So you do need to have detailed plan to hire commercial trash dumpsters from her trash company and place there near home to remove excessive stuff each time she has doctor appt. Wear masks and gloves. Start where she lives the most. Emergency personnel will also need cleared walkway also.
perhaps get het those natural relaxation supplements like DHEA before she comes home each time so it’s easier for her to see. She might love you clearing her home AFTER it’s done and after an initial shock. It will feel bigger, cleaner, who h is healthier for her and caretakers and emergency personnel.
You may have to hire people who do this sort of thing also. What’s important is the rooms she, caretakers and emergency personnel need to enter and use. And tell her it went to charity so it comforts her more.
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Make an appointment with an Elder Law Attorney about POA liabilities.
There are therapists who specialize in hoarding issues, including the removal process.
First see if you can figure out why she is keeping things. Maybe she buys to give away in the future? Or does she just keep everything? Does she have the money to buy?
Can you help her eliminate to clear a safe path in the storage area? Do it only as fast as she brings in more stuff. She might just like having all that stuff around. I’m not advocating totally cleaning up the mess as I think that is hard to accomplish for you and her. However, just clearing a path so that it isn’t as much of a tripping and health hazard is a small step in the right direction.
Those are legalities and I am assuming while your question is about your legal responsibility your problem is really born out of concern for her safety. We had similar problems with my mom early in her journey and still does when she can. The desire to visit her stuff makes sense, it represents her full autonomy, a time when she was able to go out and collect the stuff or as in our case her family history, she may have always intended and still does (ridiculous to us) to sort through it, find a place for everything etc. given that she has plenty of room in the house that isn’t a mine field it may not be a true hoarding situation and more of a sentimental one so maybe you or better yet the anxiously awaiting relatives could make a project out of one room at a time with her to organize the items. Choose the easiest one first and “store” the important things elsewhere, basement, attic, storage bin and then you can set up that room for her to go through things like photos and miscellaneous items. Maybe give her bins to sort into with a chair and table to sit at and do the sorting, then she can safely go in and be with her things whenever she wants. The big furniture that doesn’t have a place in the house can be givin to family members she wants to have it or if she isn’t ready for that she can put names on things…however she wants to do it…or put them aside for an estate sale and properly stored somewhere else. You could tell her that you are worried about the items and think they should be either used and loved by someone or safely, properly stored so they aren’t harmed. Suggest this don’t demand it at first a d if she won’t go along at all maybe do what we did and simply rip the bandaid off. We started like it or not because she kept agreeing but putting it off, all three of her kids and one of her grown grandchildren came one weekend to do as much of the project as we could, the heavy lifting of moving furniture. We made sure she felt in control of what happened to things but something had to happen to them and there was so much going on she couldn’t ponder over each thing and gave up some control once she felt safe, that no one was going to throw out something important. She had to let go of not wanting anyone to see how bad it was or make decisions for her which we accomplished by pulling everything out so she could look it over or sitting her at a table to go through boxes and check with her on items. That was we could throw out the trash, pairing down a lot, without Mom having to see it and be embarrassed but we were very careful to ask her opinion on even the smallest things that could be questionable.
There are lots of reasons for doing this that you can give her but that depends on her and you know her best but include the family, let them do the work you just organize or better yet help her organize. In my moms case it was a huge relief and a project still going on. We do have a problem however with her going into the basement to look through things when no one else is in the house and while we drive the danger home each time she does and that curtails it for a while it does still happen and the fact is that she may just fall down those stairs and end up in the hospital forcing our hand at when she needs to be somewhere else.
You are not responsible for your MIL no matter which type of POA you have but especially if its not in effect. They fall even if ur right there. My daughter was helping a wheelchair bound resident when she turned for a few seconds. In that few seconds, the resident stood up and fell. As my daughter says "falls happen". If relatives cause you any problems, tell them they can take care of her.
Is there a way these rooms can be locked. Telling her that if she wants to go in, someone will come over and open up the room.
You DPOA gives you the legal right to help her, not control her.
Who holds her Durable Medical Care POA? Have they tried to help her?
I would recommend going to your Attorney Generals website and reading what the laws say that govern the POAs for your state.
I have found it to be immensely helpful and usually easy reading and eadily understood.
Country Mouse works in the industry, what she said is true, even in the USA.
Is she able to say what she wants when she goes into these areas? There might be ways to move the things she's most interested in into more accessible spaces, for example. Or perhaps the problem-seeking family members might like to brainstorm some solutions for a change.
By the way, those solutions must be proportionate to the risk, and the least restrictive possible to your MIL; so even if her dementia is advancing and your POA makes you responsible for her wellbeing, as long as you have done your best to assess the risk and mitigate it proportionately and without excessive restriction then no you will not be liable.
Has any of her doctors documented that she is unsafe to live alone?
How far into alzheimer/dementia is she? Just diagnosed or diagnosed years ago?