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She uses about 1/2 of her house for storage of her many belongings. She has so much stuff crammed into these storage rooms that it is difficult to move around for an agile person and is definitely not safe for her. Even though I have asked her repeatedly not to go into those areas, she goes when she is alone. If she falls or otherwise hurts herself, am I liable in any way? Some family members would love to cause problems and I am trying to figure out the best way to resolve this situation.

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You are not liable! Nobody is in this situation unless she is deemed incompetent.
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susanaleigh Dec 2022
Thank you!
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What type of POA do you hold? That makes a difference.

Has any of her doctors documented that she is unsafe to live alone?

How far into alzheimer/dementia is she? Just diagnosed or diagnosed years ago?
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susanaleigh Dec 2022
I have Durable General Power of Attorney. Her doctor says she should have care during the day, but 24 hour care is not necessary. Also, the dr. has not actually made an official diagnosis of alzheimers or dementia. Sometimes I think she has dementia and other times, I am unsure.
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Cluttered walkways, rugs and hoarding are all hazards we would note in our assessments. What else can be done to reduce the risk of injury to her besides her not moving freely around her own home?

Is she able to say what she wants when she goes into these areas? There might be ways to move the things she's most interested in into more accessible spaces, for example. Or perhaps the problem-seeking family members might like to brainstorm some solutions for a change.

By the way, those solutions must be proportionate to the risk, and the least restrictive possible to your MIL; so even if her dementia is advancing and your POA makes you responsible for her wellbeing, as long as you have done your best to assess the risk and mitigate it proportionately and without excessive restriction then no you will not be liable.
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susanaleigh Dec 2022
She has kitchen, two bathrooms, laundry room, living and dining room, and two bedrooms that have been set up for her ease of movement. She could definitely ask for help to get things out of the storage areas, but she wants to go back there on her own and browse through things. The problem seeking family members do not want to be involved with helping in any way, but would like to possibly cause me problems.
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Thank you!
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Until she has been declared incompetent she is responsible for her own choices. In the USA only a Judge can take away her rights to make her own choices, whether they are good, bad or indifferent.

You DPOA gives you the legal right to help her, not control her.

Who holds her Durable Medical Care POA? Have they tried to help her?

I would recommend going to your Attorney Generals website and reading what the laws say that govern the POAs for your state.

I have found it to be immensely helpful and usually easy reading and eadily understood.

Country Mouse works in the industry, what she said is true, even in the USA.
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JoAnn29 Dec 2022
A doctor can declare her incompetent for the POD to take effect if its Springing. A judge gets involved when guardianship is required. A doctor or doctors are consulted concerning competency. The Judhe reviews their reports to make a ruling.
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Maybe you can help arrange things for her to easily access. Just a thought. Did your husband or his siblings not want to be her POA?
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The thing is, is your POA Immediate or Springing. If Immediate you don't need a doctor declaring incompetence. With Springing a Doctor or more, has to say that MIL can no longer make informed decisions for it to be in effect. So, if yours is Immediate there is no problem in you helping as things progress. Springing, its not in effect until a Doctor signs off.

You are not responsible for your MIL no matter which type of POA you have but especially if its not in effect. They fall even if ur right there. My daughter was helping a wheelchair bound resident when she turned for a few seconds. In that few seconds, the resident stood up and fell. As my daughter says "falls happen". If relatives cause you any problems, tell them they can take care of her.

Is there a way these rooms can be locked. Telling her that if she wants to go in, someone will come over and open up the room.
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susanaleigh Dec 2022
My POA paperwork doesn't mention Immediate or Springing. I have medical and financial POA. My husband and I work together, but I am the most directly involved in dealing with my mil. She is so angry and argumentative about not being given total freedom to make every decision that I have not wanted to lock her out of her storage areas. I am trying to give her as much freedom as I can while keeping her as safe as I can. I have asked her to only go in there when someone is with her and she says she will abide by my request, but then a caregiver finds her in that area again and again.
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Not sure about liability but her home is unsafe to habitate in. If competent, MIL has to decide what to do for herself as she sees fit. If not, you as POA steps in to assist her welfare, but do check with an eldercare attorney, first before action.
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It’s her home, and she will continue to do “what she wants, when she wants” - especially if she has dementia! Present this dilemma to those family members and solve it together, with her present. If you’re not going to put a lock on the doors, then the thing to do is get together and clean it out/organize it. In the long run this is a task you will be glad you took care of now.
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Wether acting as her Power of Attorney or her Durable Power of Attorney you are not legally liable for her safety or to actually do anything. POA gives you the ability to act on her behalf as directed by her not the responsibility and Durable Power of Attorney gives the the ability to act on her behalf, in her best interest, even without her direction or cooperation. She has put her trust in you with this to act in her best interest when she no longer can but the only thing you are bound to do is act in her best interest when you act you are not bound to act. Springing POA goes into effect when the primary is deemed incapable by a doctor but still does not legally require one to act.

Those are legalities and I am assuming while your question is about your legal responsibility your problem is really born out of concern for her safety. We had similar problems with my mom early in her journey and still does when she can. The desire to visit her stuff makes sense, it represents her full autonomy, a time when she was able to go out and collect the stuff or as in our case her family history, she may have always intended and still does (ridiculous to us) to sort through it, find a place for everything etc. given that she has plenty of room in the house that isn’t a mine field it may not be a true hoarding situation and more of a sentimental one so maybe you or better yet the anxiously awaiting relatives could make a project out of one room at a time with her to organize the items. Choose the easiest one first and “store” the important things elsewhere, basement, attic, storage bin and then you can set up that room for her to go through things like photos and miscellaneous items. Maybe give her bins to sort into with a chair and table to sit at and do the sorting, then she can safely go in and be with her things whenever she wants. The big furniture that doesn’t have a place in the house can be givin to family members she wants to have it or if she isn’t ready for that she can put names on things…however she wants to do it…or put them aside for an estate sale and properly stored somewhere else. You could tell her that you are worried about the items and think they should be either used and loved by someone or safely, properly stored so they aren’t harmed. Suggest this don’t demand it at first a d if she won’t go along at all maybe do what we did and simply rip the bandaid off. We started like it or not because she kept agreeing but putting it off, all three of her kids and one of her grown grandchildren came one weekend to do as much of the project as we could, the heavy lifting of moving furniture. We made sure she felt in control of what happened to things but something had to happen to them and there was so much going on she couldn’t ponder over each thing and gave up some control once she felt safe, that no one was going to throw out something important. She had to let go of not wanting anyone to see how bad it was or make decisions for her which we accomplished by pulling everything out so she could look it over or sitting her at a table to go through boxes and check with her on items. That was we could throw out the trash, pairing down a lot, without Mom having to see it and be embarrassed but we were very careful to ask her opinion on even the smallest things that could be questionable.

There are lots of reasons for doing this that you can give her but that depends on her and you know her best but include the family, let them do the work you just organize or better yet help her organize. In my moms case it was a huge relief and a project still going on. We do have a problem however with her going into the basement to look through things when no one else is in the house and while we drive the danger home each time she does and that curtails it for a while it does still happen and the fact is that she may just fall down those stairs and end up in the hospital forcing our hand at when she needs to be somewhere else.
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I cannot address the legalities to her falling. However, I do suggest that you help with the storage just for her safety and your piece of mind before it gets condemned.

First see if you can figure out why she is keeping things. Maybe she buys to give away in the future? Or does she just keep everything? Does she have the money to buy?

Can you help her eliminate to clear a safe path in the storage area? Do it only as fast as she brings in more stuff. She might just like having all that stuff around. I’m not advocating totally cleaning up the mess as I think that is hard to accomplish for you and her. However, just clearing a path so that it isn’t as much of a tripping and health hazard is a small step in the right direction.
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Are you the homeowner or is she? Whoever owns it can take out an " Umbrella policy" that covers visitors/workers in the home.

Make an appointment with an Elder Law Attorney about POA liabilities.

There are therapists who specialize in hoarding issues, including the removal process.
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A lawyers told us he that everyone has the right to make their own bad decisions so long as those decisions didn’t jeapordize health and safety of individual or others.

It’s only after a person is certified by two doctors (in CA) as unable to care for themselves that you are required to take action. Different states have different requirements but in CA two doctors need to do examination and tests to determine if a person is able to safely make own decisions. If not, in CA two doctors must sign or ferried she is not. Only then do others have right to make non financial decisions.

A POA can become active only when signed, a specific date, or if deemed unable to understand or care for oneselves by two licensed doctors, one who has taken care of patient for years. So your POA may not yet be active just because your named in it. But for here I assume it is active.

Also, POA is for handling finances generally. It can have add on statements besides generic POA language. So if a POA is activated by date or condition, it doesn’t automatically cover everything in the elderly patients life. So read it for the sections that would justify you doing what people herein suggest or moving her. Technically, a full conservatorship is required for managing issues not in the POA.

in CA for example a POA nominates a conservatorship but only a Judge can approve you as conservatorship. Others States may not have this same language.

if elderly person disagrees with any attempts to clean or remove her items, even if POA permits this, then you need conservatorship.

ita best to clean it out when she’s gone to avid emotional distress for her. Depending on how bad it is, it may be a welfare and safety issue for her and absolutely required.

Thing about hoarding stuff is that one can have it and NOT have dimentia. Many fully functional people have hoarding mental illness. It’s gives them comfort and security to have all that stuff.

And merely because someone has dimentia doesn’t mean their hoarding is absolutely because of dementia. There are levels of dimentia. Mild and moderate people can still make own legal decisions like my Mother and live alone with nearby relative and caretaker coming in like you wisely have.

A day will come when she can’t be their alone and have to either move out or have care taker come for longer and eventually palliative care or hostess. The nurses that as assigned May refuse to work with your mother in a residence replete with crap thst is unsafe and unhygenic to work around.

So you do need to have detailed plan to hire commercial trash dumpsters from her trash company and place there near home to remove excessive stuff each time she has doctor appt. Wear masks and gloves. Start where she lives the most. Emergency personnel will also need cleared walkway also.

perhaps get het those natural relaxation supplements like DHEA before she comes home each time so it’s easier for her to see. She might love you clearing her home AFTER it’s done and after an initial shock. It will feel bigger, cleaner, who h is healthier for her and caretakers and emergency personnel.

You may have to hire people who do this sort of thing also. What’s important is the rooms she, caretakers and emergency personnel need to enter and use. And tell her it went to charity so it comforts her more.



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Also, there is no law, in CA so perhaps other Atates thst requires a POA to discuss, or get permission with other family regarding g the person for which you care for in a POA unless added into the POA document thst says you must give updates, speak with family before doing things.

POA’s and caregivers work against interests of the elderly person and themselves as the primary caregiver or primary contact for the elderly person, when they update, discuss things with non-caregivers, non-legally appointed people even family.
This invites drama with “too many cooks in the kitchen” and giving power to these sideline people to insert themselves and their opinions into your assisted duties and into decision making for the elderly parent. This is NOT in best interest of elderly parent if it’s causing him or her and/or you stress.

Moreover there can be medical privacy violations if you update and disclose such. You don’t work for the family members. You work only for the interests of the elderly person who gave you POA.

You must let these other family have access to the elderly person of course so long as they are not physically, psychologically, financially a threat to the elderly person. You must do this or be accused of elder abuse for denying elderly person access to their family and socializing which is vital for overall health and wellness. No saying this is at issue in your case, just saying POA doesn’t give right to isolate elderly from family. So if famiky wants updates, the can speak direct with elderly person for such updates if the come over or call. You are not a POA to make learning about the elderly person easier for family. They have duty to socialize, send cards, call their elderly parent for uodates from elderly parents.

Too often, other family feels entitled to info while not taking time out of their own life ti visit with it socialize with elderly person. Don’t tell them you have no duty to uodate them since not permitted in POA. Just tell them to come by and ask their parent directly.

You do have right to establish dates and time and length of time to come by or call for welfare of elderly person. These must be the same each week so as not to be accused of working against these other family and must include non working days of the visiting family.

If other family pay or help pay for support of elderly parents, it changes nothing if they are not the POA. It is not a pay for privileges to insert one into decisions of the POA or caretaker. Again, remember you concern is the person who gave you the POA or who you are caretaker of. Be respectful to family but stop over-sharing as it only causes drama for your elderly patient and you.
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I do not know if you are liable although this isn't the point as I read / see the situation:
MIL / She is in a precarious situation where she could injure herself - or worse.
If you are the POA, you have some authority to make decisions on her behalf.
* Sounds like you need to come to some resolution or decisions about your role / legal responsibilities and the family dynamics.
* If I were in your situation, I would :
- request meeting with the 'family problem causers' [always have a witness w/you if a group meeting];
- contact attorney or whoever wrote up the POA;
call APS (Adult Protective Services)
OR
- one or all of the above.

* If you cannot be effective in assisting your MIL to keep her safe, something has to change.

Thank you for writing us. Perhaps others here have more ideas / supportive responses than mine. I appreciate you reaching out to this community. And appreciate the bind / situation you feel you are in. I know . . . these legal responsibilities we take on are not easy to manage. And, it is an immense responsibility.

Gena / Touch Matters
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If your MIL is deemed mentally incompetent by a doctor, then you use the POA powers to make decisions to ensure her health and safety. If she is considered still mentally competent, then you are not liable for the consequences of her decisions. SO, get her evaluated. If she is not mentally competent, then lock those rooms until you can get them cleared out. Sounds like it is time to help her downsize into an assisted living situation or a smaller home in a senior living community.
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VictorianDoll Dec 2022
My mothers house was the same way, cluttered. While I was applying for GDN I would come giver her meds when I found meds that were three and four years old. One day I visited a neighbor told me that he brought her home at 3 am as she was wondering the streets. She called me frantic one morning,”someone sole my vacuum, I went over to investigate. It wasn’t stolen she has three dismantled vacuums. What am I getting to you ask? Make a decision, take action for GDN for yourself or faculty. It’s not a one and done! First make a doctors appointment, do cognitive testing get results, apply for applications, talk to placement facilities. You’ll receive court date at probate, get your information together, what ever you need to take her home or to a facility! Family can cause such interference, slow the process, it’s jealousy plain and simple. Mine did……..they don’t visit, call. And all she talks about is her children, I’m just the lady who lets her stay in her home. It’s a really sad situation. Then clean her home out, sell it all or donate. Make sure her final expenses are taken care of. Mom had nothing in place, had to do that, working on paying that off. Don’t wait much longer, hope this helps wishing you the best of luck
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Your MIL has dementia and therefore, should not be left alone at all, ever. She should have a full time caregiver with her 24/7, or be in Memory Care Assisted Living. A person with dementia is not acting demented 24/7, so you say sometimes you think she has dementia, other times, not so much, which is exactly how dementia presents itself; it's not linear. There are good days & bad days for all elders with dementia. The fact that she's living in a hoarded home where she 'promises' not to go into the storage areas, then proceeds to go in there repeatedly, shows you that she's not firing on all cylinders, and needs someone with her 24/7. Being angry, argumentative and refusing to do what she promises she will do are hallmarks of dementia, and likely to worsen rather than get better as her condition advances.

That said, once a caregiver is hired full time, the problem stops dead in its tracks b/c while supervised, MIL cannot go into these dangerous rooms and get hurt as a result. As her POA, you and her son are responsible to see that she's kept as safe as humanly possible. Meaning she needs help in her home or to be in managed care with others looking after her on a full time basis, making sure she's fed, medicated, bathed, and safe.

People tend to wait until an elder's dementia is SO advanced that they're wandering off at 3 am getting lost or leaving empty pots burning on the stove before they say 'uh oh, I think she needs full time supervision.' By then it's too late in many cases. Your MIL is showing very impaired judgement with her decision making abilities, and if you stop and think about it, it's likely not just about insisting on going into cluttered rooms even after telling you she wouldn't. What other instances can you think of where MIL is making poor decisions?

MIL has already shown you, repeatedly, that she's making poor decisions on an ongoing basis. Believe her that these poor decisions WILL continue to happen.

Wishing you the best of luck getting help into MILs home on a full time basis.
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susanaleigh: Depending on the level of your MIL's dementia, she may require residence in a managed care facility, most likely memory care. Your MIL is not safe when she enters the rooms which are in a hoarding situation.
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Sounds like a facility might be the answer. My mom hoarded also …more as the dementia took hold. I limit her possessions in an assisted living facility.
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Come in and make changes to improve her safety. Focus on her safety, not your liability. If she is safe, there should be no problem.

What is causing her stress?
Is she seeking mementos? Looking for something she lost? Trying to clean up?

These tasks may be too stressful or dangerous. See if you can help her resolve whatever is bothering her and make sure the place is safe when she is alone.

As for the threatening family members, would they like to help? (Probably not). Do they just want to criticize?

i learned my scheming family members were trying to put mom in a nursing home behind my back to conserve their perceived future inheritance. Watch out for this type of vulture.
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I would say find a way to lock those doors. But sounds like she needs more supervision for her wandering around
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