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Stay strong, Max.
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Hello.

No idea on financial situation, but we solved that issue. We have membership at a Costco and we bought a toilet seat bidet for $230.00 or less on sale for my Mom to use. Plumbing was easy for my husband to install. Only other expense was connecting an electrical outlet (proper kind for nearby water) near the bidet.

I no longer have to help her. She sits, does her business, uses the remote control to clean the front/back, air drys (blows warm air) and she just has to flush. The seats are slightly elevated as well on the bidet.

it’s not without cost and we bought it on sale (most cost $300-500) and we’ve used the Biobidet 6800 for three years now. I use one (same model) as well in her other bathroom. It’s has proven to be effective for Mom and she has less UTIs now because she doesn’t need tissue to dry. The bidet has heated seats as well and options to encourage a BM cycle if needed. It will not spray water if no one is seated. It even helps to clean if diarrhea with an expanded spray/wash cycle. It’s not a total fix, but it might help.

It might take a small learning curve, but it’s priceless for us! Good luck.
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Like what Golden said. I would not keep reminding Mom your leaving. As said she needs to lose that weight and get up and move more. Even if she lands in the hospital GO HOME! Tell Dad if he feels he cannot care for her, transfer her to a nice Longterm care facility or AL. See a lawyer and have assets split and when Moms split is gone, apply for medicaid. As Community Spouse, he gets the house, a car and enough or all of their month income to live on. Or go into an AL together and sell the house for their care. He needs to make these decisions. You are starting to have your own health issues you can not be at their beck and call.

So glad your pushed back your date on leaving. When the time comes, treat Mom like you would a child going to their first day of daycare. Get the car packed up, kiss and hug Dad goodbye then kiss and hug Mom goodbye, straighten ur back and leave. Your parents need to realize they need help and its not going to be realized until you are not doing for them anymore.
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Hi Everyone- so much happened today- mom went to her Dr. and he told her she needs to lose weight, and if she does she can be off the oxygen in 2 months. We have told her that she is crushing her diaphragm but of course she didn’t listen. So she was a different person, she threw me a kiss, then she called my husband and told him your wife is a great nurse and she’s going to miss me and then here it comes -your wife really can’t wait to leave and go home! She had to say that! Wow! Un f…. believable! I then said - I do miss my husband and even though your condo is beautiful, I really miss my home physically! I then said of course I can’t wait to go home, and she said to my husband- of course she should go home to you - of course with a seething face. I could see she wanted to rip into me and she couldn’t while on the phone with my husband. I finally said it and I feel really feel good about it and in control! Thank you, oh thank you so much for taking your time and helping me!
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sp19690 Jan 2023
Sounds like you need to stop being mom and dad's nurse between now and when you leave. They need to drive themselves to the doctor, grocery shopping all of it. After all who will do it from them once you leave?
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Mom said "I don’t know what I would do without you, I’d kill myself".

Wow. She played that card early. Haven't even got the suitcase in the hall.

Mom is showing you who she is here. Believe her.

But, I know some people like to dramatize, so not everyone who says 'oh kill me now' needs a 911 emergency call.
Maxi, you know your Mom best - so you know if this is just her drama-speak way or an actual change of behaviour/desperation/emergency.

I'm working on a new plan here - bear with me.. I feel the life-long manipulation & close bond is very strong at this time. Stronger than the ability to put any advice here is into an action plan.

It takes time to flex your NO muscle, learn to set strong boundaries & take small steps then bigger confident steps into new patterns of behaviour.

And you have about a week.. right?

So.. Plan A: Get firm. Start saying no. Build boundaries. LEAVE with DH when he arrives.

I think you need a Plan B. I will put my thinking cap on. 🧠
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
@Beatty

People who make that drama threat aren't going to follow through on it. They're way too narcissistic and self-important to ever consider doing themselves in. Two friends, people that I loved dearly took their own lives. One because he found out he had untreatable, terminal cancer and did not want to burden and bankrupt his wife and kids. He didn't even tell them he was sick. The other, no one knows why. These two people did not threaten or make their intentions known. They just tragically went and did it. When people are serious about suicide, they don't make drama talking about it. Or threaten with it as leverage to get others to obey them or give them what they want.
The mother making the suicide threats doesn't want to lose her A$$-Wiper-In Chief and care slave, her daughter. So she's pulling out all the stops doing whatever it takes to guilt this poor woman into the dust so remain there wiping and serving in total obedience until her mother dies.
The OP needs to get the h*ll out of there quick. Set up homecare and mom can take it or leave it. Then it's BON VOYAGE!
My mother has pulled this same crap my entire life. She used to pull it on my father when they were married then would try to every time he came by to visit us kids. He'd just get in his car and leave. Then she'd turn it on us.
She's 85 years old now. No one reaches such an old age because they're serious about committing suicide.
The OP should handle it by calling 911 then proceed with her original date to leave and go back to her home.
Nothing should stop her.
What I would tell her mother is the same thing I've told mine.
I'm leaving whether you're here or not. Nothing is stopping that.
The OP should call her mother's bluff.
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I never told you guys that I left my husband many times to search for homes for my brother who never put roots down anywhere and never worked. My parents had almost a million dollars and practically went broke supporting my brother who ended up living in his van. I was constantly threatened by my brother to give him money and this is why we are paying for my parent’s condo. Not one person we know, knows about this. I feel close to all of you and trust your opinions. I have been in denial about how wonderful my life has been. I have dedicated my life to my parents- I’m so drained mentally, emotionally and physically. I’m definitely going seek professional help. You can ask me any questions about this if you want.
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sp19690 Jan 2023
Did your parents make you give brother money and try and find a house for him? I take it brothers dead which is why you are not funding his lifestyle too.

How sad that your brother was always given top priority by your parents at the cost of their financial future and the high costs to you too emotionally and financially.

What would have happened to them if you couldnt afford to support them financially? Do you resent having to support them? Do they demand that you support them?
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Max - Well Done!!!!! Take control of your life. Be who you are - a loving wife who misses her home and her husband. You don't have to hide that. I am glad you feel good about expressing yourself honestly. Keep on that path.

Your mum has now heard from her doctor again that she needs to lose weight to help herself. She might be a different person for a short while but, I believe the old narcissist will surface again and start playing on guilt, fear and obligation. You are developing some tools to deal with her. Excellent!!! Keep practicing and using those tools and look out for yourself. She is not number one in your life, you are. Your need to leave and go to your own home and be with your husband is healthy. Her need to keep you there with her and wait on her is unhealthy. Take the healthy route. Don't enable her neediness any more.

If your mother pulls a health emergency just before or when you are leaving, let dad call emergency response services, and have her taken to ER. Stay in control of YOUR life, don't let her take over. Leave with your hub as planned. This is not you being a bad daughter, this is her being a bad mother. It is all attention getting and some will go so far to hurt themselves to get that attention. Been there. She needs to learn that you are not going to cave to her.

I agree with Joann. It is like a toddler pulling a tantrum and needs to be dealt with the same way. You don't give in to them.

Beatty - As long as Plan B means leaving at the same time as Plan A. There can be no alternative to that. Mom is fighting a battle to control Max and in the past Mom has been very successful. She must not succeed this time no matter what tricks she pulls, Max is leaving on the 28th with her hub no matter what happens. Firmness and saying "No" and boundaries need to happen regardless in all plans. My thoughts on the "I'll kill myself" card is that taking it seriously, even if you don't think it is serious, makes mother experience the consequences of her actions. In the normal world if you threaten suicide you get carted off for a psychiatric evaluation. Frankly she needs one.

sp - that's a good idea. Max can start weaning them off reliance on her. They need to find other resources for help if they can't manage on their own. That's life.

Again, Max, very well done and keep it up. (((((((hugs))))))) I had a narcissistic mother, and sister too. Boundaries are essential for your survival. You are a giver, they are takers. Takers have no boundaries, so givers have to have them.

Thanks for sharing about your brother and parents I'll respond to your most recent post later. 💕
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Beatty Jan 2023
Golden,

"if you threaten suicide you get carted off for a psychiatric evaluation".
AGREE.
I'd repeat that to Mom. In a very stern tone.

My thoughts on a Plan B are still evolving.. but DO include a definate YES to leaving on the planned date.
Make that Not Negotiable.

There's a tricky patch of terrain coming - could be a train crash.
Lead. Drive the train.

Or, Plan B

Be ok with your level of skill. If you don't know how to drive, haven't the time to learn, or cannot see the way forward for the F.O.G. (fear, obligation, guilt). Accept this.

Get off the train.

Alert other people who CAN drive the train. Who CAN see clearly without the family FOG.

This may suit a quieter personality better?

Tape emergencies phones numbers, 911, doctor + taxi, grocery store, pharmacy to the fridge. Point them out before you go. Reassure the folks you will help them & care for them.

This can be in the role of *emotional support* instead. That can be done from a phone call, from your own home.

🚂❤️🏠
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Dear (((((((Max)))))) I read with great sadness your brief account of your life.

"I have dedicated my life to my parents- I’m so drained mentally, emotionally and physically."

and you also gave too much to your abusive brother.

None of them appreciate what this has and is costing you. None!

Time for you now, Max. You and your hub and your home and your life.

You have been giving to the point that your cup is empty, and your health is suffering seriously. This can't continue.

I don't know how much help you can or want to be to your parents. That's for you and your hub to decide - wisely and in kindness to yourselves and others. I'm not suggesting you "dump" them, but back off to a level of interaction that you are comfortable with. I only saw my mother a few times a year, and then only for an hour or so at a time, and usually someone supportive of me was with me when I visited. I was the POA and looked after her finances, with her own money, was the contact person for the doctors and the facilities she was in and made sure she had the best care available. Would she have liked more contact with me? Sure, but it wasn't good for me. Her needs were looked after but not her wants when they collided with my needs. Frankly, that you support them financially is huge.

Just don't give to them to the point of hurting yourself any more. Don't give to anyone to the point of hurting yourself any more. Be emotionally supportive of you before you are of anyone else. You matter!!!!!

Time for your healing, Max, for supreme self care.

I am so glad you realize you have been in denial. It's a whole new ball game for you now. Face the realities - some of which aren't very nice, but facing them is the best thing to do, accept how things were and are, how people were and are - how they really are! Once I accepted how my mother and sister were and stopped trying to see what I wanted to see in them, it was a relief and I could move forward. But it took a lot of me being battered before I did. You are not alone.

Time to build you up. I am glad you will seek professional help. I have gone off and on all my life - I needed to and it helped.

More ((((((hugs))))) Max. I am so glad you have a supportive husband and now you have some supportive cyber friends here on AC. Onwards and upwards from here. 2023 marks the beginning of a new life for you.
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In reply to sp19690 If my husband didn’t pay for their mortgage, they wouldn’t have a place to live in of their own. My dad had a wonderful profession as a pilot-Captain flying for an international commercial airline, owned a restaurant at the same time, and had money - my brother never worked a day in his life. He started to become belligerent and we were deathly afraid of him, so anything he wanted he got. I traveled on the road across country to find homes for him with my parents - we all cleaned the houses, worked on them to make them perfect for him. This went on for 7 years. After a few months he would leave the house and want to move to a different state. The last time he left, he showed up on at our home and made us live upstairs. We couldn’t come downstairs. I needed to cook on an electric pan and clean the dishes in the tub. He was drunk all of the time with rifles in my home that he used for hunting birds. Oh I forgot, that’s all he did with his life was go hunting. My mom and I gave him money because we were so scared of him. He threatened my husband’s life. He barged into my Aunts house and threw all of her furniture in her backyard and threatened to kill my cousin’s baby. Then we moved and he wasn’t able to drive to us, but the abuse was by telephone. Even then we were afraid.
No one wanted to call the police. The money that we gave my parents is the money they needed to support my brother with. Mom never admitted he had psychiatric issues. My Dad lost a lot of money, so he had to foreclose on my brother’s last house, finally it came to an end. My brother was living in his van, got arrested, my husband bailed him out and somehow ended up in a psychiatric ward in a hospital. We called the hospital and they said he requested that no one is to be told where he is. We looked him up in public records and we think he’s still alive. There’s more to the story, you can imagine - the physical, mental and emotional abuse to my entire family. Another thing - no we don’t mind helping my parents financially or emotionally, but
what we mind is everything we do has to be with them. We had no life together as just us. My parents built a log home in the mountains and for 4 years straight every weekend my husband and I had to go there. These are the type of people that are so giving of themselves and are such perfectionists with everything that the beauty of this is turning ugly!
P.S. My mom ran a perfect household - everything in order, best of food, best of clothes, finatical with everything. It worked our for them and I must say I had a wonderful upbringing, but I think it affected my brother and I think I feel I owe them.
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
@max

Why on earth would you allow a vicious tyrant like your brother get away with all that he did.
No one wanted to call the police? Why ever not?
Your parents chose to enable their son's deplorable and dangerous behavior. Their denial of his mental illnesses or other deficiencies is on them, not you.
You had to suffer the consequences of their choices and that was wrong. If anything they owe YOU. Not the other way around.
I hope you let them know this. It's not for you and your husband to financially support them. It is not for you to have to spend the rest of your mother's life wiping her a$$ and being a slave to her care needs while she treats you with disrepect. You've suffered enough, honey. Let it be enough now and you go home back to your life.
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In what way are your parents "giving of themselves"?

Do you mean giving in to your brother's threats and blackmail, and putting their heads in the sand so as not to acknowledge his mental health issues?

That's not the common definition of "giving of themselves", Max.

It is, rather, the classic "everything is perfect in our life" behavior of deeply narcissistic people.

Get help for yourself. Find a case manager for your parents and an eldercare attorney local to them who can get them qualified for Medicaid.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
Sometimes it’s the, “Keep the Peace” theory which never works. I saw my parents do it with my brother.

It’s insane to pacify someone who is unstable, hoping that it will go away. I have always admired parents who turn in their children to law enforcement.

My dad didn’t think like my mom but she would undermine him. Family therapy wasn’t common then. I wish it had been. Our family desperately could have benefited from therapy.
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Your parents allowed your brother to ruin them financially. Your husband shouldn't be cleaning up that mess. The police should have been called. ver. Go home or you'll be wiping her butt fo
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
Absolutely right, Bridget. The OP's husband should not be cleaning up their financial mess.
The parents are the ones who chose to be the brother's enablers. They are the ones who should have to deal with the consequences of their poor choices.
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I'm sorry, I'm having a seriously hard time wrapping my head around this story with the brother...and I'm certainly no stranger to witnessing major disfunction in families. Am I the only one? If it's me, please tell me, because sometimes it IS me, but I have a really hard time believing that *NO ONE* in this ENTIRE extended family - we're talking cousins and in-laws who married into this clan - has the guts/gonads/gumption to say "get lost, deadbeat" when this brother comes around DEMANDING and THREATENING for money? That's a robbery, by the way, use or threatening use of force to get someone else's property. No one in this entire family called the cops? Threatened back? Threw brother out? Got a restraining order? They all just reach into their collective pockets and give it up because they're all afraid?

If all this is true, then, OP, your problems run waaayyyy deeper than not wanting to wipe mom's butt. You all need serious therapy to learn how to stand up for yourselves and not be someone's patsy for your entire lives. Either that or take some of this money you've been handing over to your brother and use it to hire some big-ass security guards/bouncers to "show your brother the door" EVERY TIME he comes near any of you. Quite frankly, that would be a better use of your money than what you're doing now. For heaven's sake.
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lealonnie1 Jan 2023
What I have an even harder time wrapping my mind around is that the OP feels she's been given SUCH an amazingly wonderful life/a wonderful upbringing by her parents, in spite of this horrible story that she's now divulged. In what universe does this constitute an 'amazing life' when being held hostage by a psychotic brother, and not calling in the authorities but giving him what he wanted to the tune of the parents having NO MONEY left and OP having to buy them a home & exhausting HER resources? And now her whole life caring for them b/c they 'gave her such a fabulous life.' Her DH even BAILED the psychotic brother out of JAIL! OMG.

I agree that nobody rolls over and takes THIS level of tyrannical abuse and highway robbery from a brother. And now, OP is accepting tyrannical abuse from her mother, updating us daily with the "Guess what?" posts which is just mom using more passive/aggressive punishment tactics to keep her living there. Yet the OP keeps asking advice for the same behaviors mom repeats continuously.

I think I'll have to go back to my original first comment which pretty much said there's no hope for enmeshment to THIS degree; gut instincts are usually spot on. Just keep living with your parents until they pass. At their advanced ages of 90s, it's too late to change this dynamic now. And the more we hear and read, the more that point is underlined, imo. We now read about how the OP 'had' to do this, that & the other thing when ordered to by her parents, which is pure nonsense! Every human being has the power of choice, at least after they turn 18. No is a word we're ALL allowed and expected to use with loved ones, let's face it.

Wishing you the best of luck, Maximus. I think you can't teach an old dog new tricks after a certain point in life, which holds true for you AND for your parents. Just do whatever you can for them while they're still alive to minimize your 'guilt' after they do pass away.
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I’ve read so many posts like this. I wonder how many people ever actually heed the sound advice given and put themselves first. I wonder if most follow old patterns and behaviors and simply cave in because they are unable to overcome the guilt. It’s all great in theory, hard to put into practice.

Sorry to say I don’t think OP is leaving in February.
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
Good points, Hothouseflower. If the OP does not leave then she can spend the rest of her mother's life wiping her a$$ and taking abuse.
Hopefully Max starts putting herself and her husband first because both of them are more important than her parents.
Her husband sounds like a stand-up guy and very generous too. People reach their limit on how much they're willing to put up with and I hope he doesn't reach his and then it's too late.
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Max,

Growing up in a dysfunctional household is really hard but at some point in time you have to learn to live independently.

I am very sorry that you have been through so much. I admire the compassion that you developed for your mom and dad but you are equally as important as they are.

It isn’t my place to judge you. No one initially knows how to deal with these situations.

Your entire family’s life revolved around your brother. I realize that all of you were frightened. He took advantage of that fear and held all of you as his hostages.

You and your husband broke free from his demands by moving far away. I am sure that you viewed the situation with your brother differently once you had a chance to be outside of your family bubble.

My brother hurt my mom and dad terribly and I felt horribly about that, just like you did with your parents. He hurt all of us (sister and brothers) too.

My mom tried desperately to pull me into the middle of the family drama and it made me feel completely confused and invisible.

I had to tell my mom, “Mom, he is your son, not mine. Do not ask me to help him any further because I will not do anything else. I’m done. Respect me as much as you do him because I refuse to live in his shadow.”

After I told my mom exactly how I felt she stopped trying to manipulate me and things improved in our relationship. Mom knew that I was no longer going to be talked into doing something that I didn’t want to do.

Please tell your mom and dad how you truly feel. You don’t have to scream or yell.

People generally shut down if there is a shouting match. Calmly tell them that you are going to live your life with your husband that you dearly love and you will help them find the resources to live their lives.

In closing, the final and most important thing for you to understand is that people have to implement changes in their lives.

You are responsible for changing your life, regardless of what your mom and dad do. You can take the lead as the adult daughter and they will adapt accordingly.

Wishing you and your family all the best.
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I can't put together a "wonderful" upbringing with the rest of the story. A wonderful upbringing does not enslave a child to adult servitude. Families don't change that much. Your adult life, as you describe it, was and is a disaster controlled by bro and parents. Did bro change from a normal child to the monster he is as an adult? Your hub is a lawyer. Bro should not have been bailed out and should have been in the hands of some authorities for the things he did. I can't see that a childhood in this family was that good.

In any case things are as they are and the past can't be undone. As need says - change is in order. I believe it is possible.

You say you think you feel you owe them. That could be the case. In reality you owe yourself more - a peaceful healthy life. Give them what help you reasonably can but not at the cost of your health.
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
You are very wise, golden. I couldn't agree more. I too cannot connect a wonderful upbringing then enslaving their adult child into miserable servitude.
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Bseed on OPs post about how abusive brother moved into their house and her and her husband had to live upstairs because they were scared of brother I have no confidence that husband will be any help setting boundaries with OPs parents when he comes to take his wife back home.

And I agree with everyone OP may have had a life of having nice things but she paid a terrible price with her controlling mother. Just because you arent physically abused doesn't mean you aren't being abused. I dont even know if OP at 60 realizes the extent of abuse she lived with. She has never had a breather from mom and a chance to gain some perspective.
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pamzimmrrt Jan 2023
I feel like we have moved into the ??? the heck zone here
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If you look on the OPs profile page, her posts go back to 2015 and they're all identically written in the same way this post was written. Mother is controlling, daughter and SIL give up their lives to please her parents, etc. etc. Nothing has changed in 8 years, yet OP is still asking the same "What do I do" questions here on the forum.

None of the huge amount of advice you've been given over the years has been taken Maximus, and here you are, back asking for more advice you most likely will not take.

Here is a post from 2019:

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/how-do-i-retract-what-i-said-to-my-89-year-old-mother-451582.htm

And Countrymouse's response:

Right. This is Maximus's reply on another thread from 2015:

"By accident I heard my Mom and Dad on a tape message that they didn't realize was still on that they were going to sell their home and move in with us and weren't going to tell us they sold their home. I confronted them about this and my Mom became very hurt and said I thought you said we should sell our home. A few years ago I did say that but now they have a dog and we have a dog that is scared of their dog. They do have a bedroom in our condo, but we are only permitted to have 2 dogs. My Mom doesn't think there will be an issue even though we can be sued. We always travel to Europe together, have always done things with them and love eachother so much, so they thought that living together would be so much fun. We have done that in the past years ago and also recently they spend 4 months out of the year with us. It was a shock to hear that they would move in permanately. We love being with them and they are in their late 80's and my Dad has cancer. Besides wanting to be with us they cannot enjoy life because they are financially bad-off. They supported my brother all his life and have no money. We are paying their mortgage. They said they would pay us back when they sell their home and want to enjoy life with us. I told them I was shocked and said how could you live permanately in that bedroom because they stay in it all day when they visit and don't use the living room and then I said I feel sorry for my dog and he has fears of their dog. Well, my Mom couldn't believe what I said and said to me I thought you always wanted to be with us and would wanted us to sell and live with both of you. I said yes, a few years ago that was true, but now they have a dog too. Now my Mom and Dad are hurt and said we will all go on but she will never feel the same about me. My Dad will be coming here for a serious operation and he said he will be leaving as soon as he can. I feel awful, but we always have spent time with them because we have no kids. No because they think they don't have much time, they need to spend every minute with us. I would like that too, but why can't they just visit for a length of time. They still are strong at heart and have all of their faculties. I feel so guilty and I will be taking their dog when they pass, but hopefully they will live a long life with her. Right now she is a puppy and my nine year dog can't handle her and is scared all the time. I feel for him and I feel for them too. What should I do?"

Maximus, I hope you're able to use the site and see the replies to your question?

So, what you didn't mention is that this situation has been going on for YEARS. I hope that at least the dogs are getting on with each other by now? :) And that your father's remission continues, or that he's been given the all-clear.

If we were to go back to square one: what kind of living arrangement do you think would work really well for you and your husband, and for your parents?

SMH
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sp19690 Jan 2023
Nothing changes if nothing changes and clearly nothing is going to change.
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I'm so sorry about your brother. I am touched you felt safe enough to share.

I get family looks after family. Wishes to protect family. Regarding "No one wanted to call the police" - fear, mixed in with that family obligation, guilt of turning him in. Yet brother did eventually run into trouble with the law, did get psychological input & hopefully help. (Shame it wasn't much sooner).

Reflecting back now, do you think your parent's had trouble saying no to him? Taught you by example not to say no to him? That it's not ok to say no to family?

My family let a LO go along a path without any 'no' for such a long time too. No-one knew quite what to do. Eventually someone did pause, stop, say enough, this is not ok, we need help here. Only then did things change.

That is in the past now.

But looking to the future.. there is opportunity to tread differently. To really look at that family 'rule' of not saying no to family. Assess if it actually is sensible, fair, useful.

Kind of like having a hoarder neighbours. Their hoard on their property is their problem. But if it encroaches onto your property, or presents fire danger to your property - it also becomes your problem so you get a say & to act to protect yourself.

Maxi, your brother's issues were like a hoard encroaching over your property. Now your parents are set to do the same to you.
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I think in this stage of you life, you have paid Mom and Dad back. They raised u till 18, maybe paid for your college? 1980 cost of raising a child was about 90k. I think by helping ur brother for ur parents and now helping your parents (counting your caregiving) you have paid them back. Just figured by the time you leave you have been there approx 65, counting from TG. At $15 for 8 hrs a day = $120 = $7,800 you have saved your parents in hiring someone and this is conservative.

You and your husband need to see a therapist to find out why you enable your family. All I can say that he loves u bunches. Mom and Dad lost what they had because of your brother. They did not have to help him. Dad should not have bailed him out. I would have left him there. If this was my parents, they would have to live in a HUD apt. Something they could afford on what they bring in. Why, because I have always made my own way. Yes, we got what we needed and Christmas was the best they could afford. I got 1 pair of shoes to start school with, when worn out I got another. I babysat to buy my extra shoes and purses. I worked one summer and paid for my class trip. I worked from 18 to 62. Everything I had after 18 I and my husband worked for, our parents gave us nothing.
I am not saying we would not have helped our parents in some way but not supported them in the lifestyle they had before brother broke them. They would need to show me they downsized to a place they could afford and were staying within budget. My responsibility would be to make sure there was food in the house, heat, water and electric. Does this seem cruel, its not because your parents should have cut your brother off long ago. Its called tough love and its not a new concept. Your parents were not entitled to support him after he was 18. There must have been signs there was something wrong with your brother at a young age. Your parents made this monster. You should not have to take your hard earned money, that you should be setting aside for your future, to support your parents who probably don't appreciate it because they feel you owe them.

But as said they are in their 90s and not going to change things now. But you can set boundaries for yourself. You go home on the 28th. DO NOT change these plans. Its time for Mom and Dad to make decisions. If they are going to stay in the home, then Mom is going to need help. If they cannot afford it, then there is Medicaid. Or Office of Aging, APS. There are resources out there don't u be the resource.

You have had cancer. Stress does contribute to it. So you become ur #1 concern and DH is next.

Mantra...I am here to show people the way, not be the way.
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I hear the indignation of some posters. You know, some come here for ideas and support to improve their lives and they benefit from the input of others. Some come here to tell their stories (real or otherwise) and/or come here to vent and get sympathy and attention, but have no desire or intention to change.

I believe change is possible even in the direst of situations. I have seen it happen more that once, even after years of being stuck in a dysfunctional pattern.

But - the big qualifier - the person has to want to change. The fear and pain of staying the same has to be greater than the fear and pain of change. The payoff of change has to be greater than the payoff of staying the same.

Max, you have had an abundance of advice over some period of years and it appears that you really don't want change. That's OK. It's your choice, your life. The advent of cancer might have been a big enough reason for some to change, but it doesn't seem to have been for you.

I am going to recommend to you that you read "When The Body Says No" by Gabor Mate'. Among other things, he writes about women and breast cancer and their relationships with their mothers - basically their inability to establish that independent life that Need wrote about and that we all are encouraging you towards. I also believe a high stress life can contribute to the development of cancer though neither of these are by any means the only factors. I see it in my daughter who has been through a lot of stress in her family and still has issues she needs to face, so this is close to my heart. I am doing what I can to support her towards dealing better with stress and developing that full independence, as I want her to have a long and healthy life.

I wish the same for you, Max - a long and healthy life which is developed by good, sound choices. We can give advice and support, but in the long and the short run, it's all up to you.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
I agree with you, Golden. Change is possible with the right support. Your daughter is lucky to have a mother who is so loving and supportive.
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HI there, can you get in - home help for your mum? They will bathe her and clean her up.
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JoAnn29 Jan 2023
Mom refuses, wants her daughter.
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Max,

When you were growing up did your mom emphasize that you should always be a ‘good’ little girl and obey all of the time? I know that my mom certainly did.

When I was younger, all I ever wanted to do was please my mom so I could make her happy. It killed me if I saw her disappointed when I couldn’t live up to her expectations.

My mother was a supreme perfectionist! Perfectionists are difficult to get along with. I felt tremendous pressure and it emotionally stunted the way that I processed anything that my mother saw as a failure. It created a lot of anxiety for me as a child.

Failure is a part of life and everyone fails as they are learning. It’s important to learn how to move forward and this is difficult if we receive constant criticism.

We need encouragement from our moms to know that eventually we are going to succeed in life. I had to learn this on my own and from others.

I was afraid to bring home a B on my report card because my mother made all A’s. She wanted to see all A’s on every test that I took.

When my brother started acting up, there was even more pressure on me to never fail. I didn’t mind working hard to get the best grades but I absolutely hated the extreme pressure from my mother.

I understand that parents want us to do our best, but kids are not going to be perfect! Let’s face it, kids are curious and do weird sh*t sometimes!

I personally prefer the attitude that my mother in law had when she was raising her children. She would say, “They wouldn’t be kids if they didn’t try things.”

My mother in law disciplined her kids but her sons weren’t afraid of her. They had the freedom to think for themselves. She didn’t write a script for them. Her sons did very well for themselves.

My mother in law was an incredible pianist but none of her sons play music. She allowed them to find their own interests.

You’re no longer the young daughter that your mother raised you to be. You are a grown woman who is capable of making your own decisions in life.

I have two daughters and I took a different approach than my mom did because I value them being themselves. I learned so much from my mother in law.

If you knew another woman who was in the same situation as you, what advice would you give to her?

You have loads of information stored inside of you from your experiences. I bet that you would say, ‘Don’t make the same mistakes that I have.’ Am I right? You can learn from those mistakes. You can succeed.

Step outside of yourself and see the independent woman that you are quite capable of being.
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
@NeedHelpWithMom

You're spot on lower in the thread about 'Keep The Peace' theory in families and how it never works. Really it's just a way to justify abuse and excuse it.
My mother was all about the just "keeping the peace" and avoiding confrontation with anyone other than her abuse targets (first our father, then my sister and I). She always let people take advantage of our home and to treat her kids with disrespect and abuse. I learned from that nonsense behavior. I do not tolerate abuse because it will 'keep the peace'. No way. I'd rather have a scortched-earth policy than do that.
I'm not the nicest person in the world. Or the gentlest, or the most empathic. But no one ever has to guess what mean or want and I am rarely misunderstood.
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"My husband and I are in our 60’s and about to retire"

What are your retirement plans?

What are your mother's retirement plans for you? Are they moving in with you, or are you expected to buy a house near them and for you all to live together?

If nothing's changed since you started posting here in 2015, what do you think will be different this year?

I don't know if this has been asked and answered elsewhere, but have you ever gone to therapy? You have a LOT to unpack from your past. And while that is happening, a therapist needs to help you learn to disengage from your parents.

Yes, your brother was a monster. But your parents raised and enabled that monster. Like others, I am surprised that NO ONE in your extended family ever called the police on him.
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maximus1 Jan 2023
Quick response we want to retire in Europe and stay forever and still keep our condo. We were supposed to take my parents and put them in an apartment in their favorite town in Spain, but with visas, etc. it’s going to difficult.
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Max,

If you were expected to always be the ‘good’ child, be ‘naughty’ now and tell your mom, ‘No!’ now. You deserve a life with normalcy. You also deserve an environment that will allow you to heal physically and emotionally.

I spent too many years of my life saying, ‘Yes, Mom.’ in order to please her. If I knew then what I know now, trust me, I would have been disobedient in spite of her not being satisfied.

We didn’t have the language as children to express our feelings. We are adults now and you know what needs to be said.

Forget about her being understanding. No matter how she takes the news, you can still walk away in good conscience.

I realize that you have been programmed. I was too, but it’s never too late to change your mindset.

I know what it’s like to feel compelled to do everything just right because we had whacko brothers. My brother had different issues than yours but the principle is the same.

Your mother will adapt when you tell her, ‘No, I can’t do this anymore. It’s over. You must find the help that you need elsewhere.”
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Once you retire you need to move as far away from this insanity as possible. I hear Thailand is a great retirement option.
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Beatty Jan 2023
They were heading to Spain.. but...
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Yes, she raised us to be really polite children and you couldn’t say no to her, because the response would be no do it now! Now that may be kids stuff, but she still does it to everyone to this day. She’ll start setting a table for company a week before the date. She’s extremely organized and everything is perfect. I’m like that to, but she’s really fanatical.
That’s ok, but when she started to answer for me at 17 years old when my Aunt offered me a glass of water - my mom answered for me and said no she doesn’t want anything. Wow! Or when I’m with her company till this day, if I say something and might have interrupted her a little, she’ll say really nastily, excuse me, I was talking (or something like that).
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NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
Those are degrading things for her to say, Max. Don’t tolerate this behavior. Speak up and say right then and there that you are capable of answering for yourself.

If you do speak up, what is her response? There is no justification for this behavior.

Oh, yes. We learned to be organized, which is a good thing but it shouldn’t be used to punish others.
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Maximus, So, you had a wonderful childhood because your parents told you it was so?

Setting a table the week before a party (unless you are British royalty) is the definition of OCD.

Your parents giving into brother's threats and blackmail is a sign of mental illness on the part of all the participants. I take it that maybe your family is in some way "connected"?

It's still a psychiatric issue.

Leave, and get help.
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maximus1
1 min ago
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Quick response CTTN we want to retire in Europe and stay forever and still keep our condo. We were supposed to take my parents and put them in an apartment in their favorite town in Spain, but with visas, etc. it’s going to difficult.
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sp19690 Jan 2023
Can you please cutbthe damn umbilical cord already? Why can't you do one thing without your parents? Did you take them on your honeymoon too?
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Max,

Have you ever journaled? It only takes a few minutes of your time and it really helps to track your emotions, setbacks and progress.

My therapist suggested that I journal for a time and I found it to be helpful.

We can easily fall into patterns and not even be aware of them. A journal will show you patterns that you need to address.

I am not judging but I see long standing patterns in your life.

I am curious. Do you see any similarities between your behavior and automatic algorithms that pop up daily on our computers?

Make a plan and don’t stray away from it no matter what happens. You must take action to break these unhealthy cycles.
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Max, I think at this stage of life you should stay right where you have always been. If you leave now and something happens you will run your remaining years into the ground with self inflicted guilt.

You and your parents are not autonomous individuals, so be prepared to wipe butt and be at their beck and call until you bury them. Hopefully, you will survive their deaths and not become a statistic.

It is okay to vent and wish for better things here. Good luck.
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