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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
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V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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My brother has POA, but my mom lives with me. He seems to think that he has control of everything, including her monthly social security checks. The thing is, I take care of her every day and night and he doesn't even come to see her. It seems to me like he is waiting for her to die. Then to top it all off, my mom has severe Alzheimer's and he wants me to believe that my mom granted him POA. She was declared legally incompetent two years ago. So does he POA mean anything?
Dear Sjk911 2 years ago you posted here saying: "Absolutely not. It's against the patient bill of rights whether or not she is competent. No one can stop you from seeing your mom! Period" I loved your response! I am curious though - What part of the bill is it against? I also am in Canada and this is what I have to go on: http://ondri.ca/sites/default/files/HSF%20Patient%20Bill%20of%20Rights.pdf and my thinking is you are in the U.S. ( I had to use a U.S. zip code to sign in to the site) so maybe we have different bills of rights. Please accept my thanks in advance for your time and any reply you may have.
My brother doesn't care for my mum, he controls her. Now he has power of attorney I guess he'll be worse. I'm no allowed to take her out in her wheel chair, he says 101 things could go wrong. I know she just goes along with him to keep the peace.
Usually a Health POA is only going to come into play if your mother is too ill to make her own decisions. I had that for my mom and the decision making didn't turn over to me until she had her strokes and then a massive stroke where she couldn't talk clearly or even know what was going on around her. And to be forced to make the decision to stop giving her food and water because she could no longer swallow and at 92 the doctors said she wouldn't recover. That was when I wished it was anyone else but me that had to make that decision. And it still bothers me..... I wish you luck.
I would also like to add that is the NH accepts Medicaid it is an open facility meaning the can not exclude people from coming unless there is an RO in tact.
FYI my mother BP range is 250+/100, trying to get it under control, couple that with dementia, and perhaps that helps to explain why we are concerned. She really can not handle the chaos, it just may very well kill her.
@Missmac except that this is not the case in every situation. My brother & I consulted with the NH on my difficult brother regarding allowing him to visit as we really don't want to be in the position we are in.
It was explained to us that they do not have adequate staff to piece these issues, that the normal course of action if he shows up and creates a disturbance is to call the police which the want no part of as this will not allow disrupt my mother but all the resdents as most are in the same situation as her.
Odds are that he will cause a distrubsnce, he already did at her apartment building when denied acres by the staff (nothing to do with us, as I can't gain entry either.)
We have tried repeatedly to have rational conversations with him, to no avail. Therefore we have no other option. I am not happy about it as I would love for him to be able to visit as someone here said "in the winter of her life", but I am terrified of what will happen.
A medical power of attorney is for medical decisions when a patient is incompetant or incapacitated, and cannot make a reasoned decision or contribute to their own care plan. Restricting visitation because the patient needs to rest is one thing. Barring a child by another child of the parent requires a no contact order which is usually only granted in circumstances where the patient would be mistreated or in danger from said contact with the questionable person. Supervision of a visit by another trusted family member or friend may be a better compromise than court action or pitting the care staff against other family members. A child still has the right to relationship. Within boundaries. The hospital administration or security is there to ensure everything remains legal respectful and non violent. They have jurisdiction over all things that interfere with patient care, and the safety of all present. They have a duty to protect staff and patients, first and foremost...above any family conflicts. Dont ask them to take sides unless safety or care is the true issue. Involving a mediator or miniaterial staff to help with old family wounds may be a better approach.
troubleathome: I can't imagine that your sister is being, for lack of better words, hateful at the winter of your mother's life! Can you and she have a sit down to discuss this?
Yes, your sister can, and the hospital will not go against her wishes. I had this happen to me with four siblings who controlled our mother and prevented me from visiting her in the nursing home.
Since you've got nothing to lose at this point, another course of action might be to contact the head of the hospital, or ask to speak with their legal department. Go as high up the ladder as you can. Floor nurses, even doctors don't always understand the legal limits of some of these directives. Most likely, an administrator will. A simple conversation with the right person might do it. Or contact a private attorney and ask him or her to make the call for you. It would cost you a few bucks, but this is the only mom you have, so I'd think it is money well spent. Good luck!
Is there a reason why your sister would do that? Maybe she is just doing what your parent has requested. It's harsh but maybe your parent can speak for him or herself and simply doesn't want to see or speak with you. You can't force someone to see or speak with you, when they do not want to. Was your relationship with your parent a good one over the years or was it toxic? Could your presence agitate your parent and cause emotional distress? Have you been estranged from your parent for many years, and now trying to reconnect and heal old wounds with a person who has dementia and not capable? I would ask your sister directly what the reason is for discussion, and not involve hospital staff or your parent with dementia or drama.
Yes you definitely should be able to take control who visits if POA is with one person when no one else has had any interest to step up and absolutely do nothing in your love ones situation. Take control and protect what's most important to you and tell the rest to continue on and let them live with the GUILT of not STEPPING UP.
To 100% clear the money is/was not the issue. Technically he did us a favor as we did not have to "spend down" as he left nothing, and I mean nothing in her accounts. She was 40k in credit card debts because of him as well.
I happen to be my mother's healthcare proxy. It was executed and in force as she has vascular dementia and is incapable of making decisions on her own due to the desease. My brother has POA. We are currently not allowing our other brother access to her as we found out that he financially abused her, was living with her until her health started to fail at which time he moved to another state with her vehicle that he had her put in his name.
He would return monthly when her SS came in and took a portion of it for his needs. All is documented. This is not however why we decided to keep him away. My brother has a violent nature, and severe self control issues. He has two outstanding warrants now and another case pending in court. He is unaware that we know this. We have on several occasions tried to explain to him our mothers condition which only results in him erupting in rage making false accusations. I believe in this is in part because he understands that the money is no longer at his disposal.
I feel that because of his personality flaws that he would be detrimental to my mother's health and let's be truthful the safety of the other patients and staff at the NH. The last thing she needs is him getting her riled or causing s problem at her residence so that they say they canno longer care for her. My job as health care proxy is to take care of her and make the best possible choices I can for her well being and that is exactly what I am doing.
There are medical POAs which are strictly for health care decisions, durable POAs for property, and Guardianship. Important to note a medical POA is limited to health care decisions only and should be in accordance with what your mother has expressed her wishes are especially if she has an advance directive for health care (i.e., types of medical interventions she does/does not want). Unless there is a restraining order to not see your mom or you are a health risk to her, no reason hospital staff can or should keep you away. Also good advice to try to work out whatever the reason is she's trying to keep you away or you may find your sister limits access even more when your mom is discharged. Also, agree, it's not fair to the health care workers to be in the middle. Make sure your visits/topics don't cause any distress that would increase heart rate, blood pressure, etc. especially if your mom is very medically fragile.
Its bad enough that the nurses/aides have plenty to do then to add on top of that to try to "monitor" people coming and going to keep someone from visiting their loved one. Unless there was proof of danger to your mother, maybe you need to have a mediator sit down with both you and your sister to see what the issue is and see what can be resolved. You might want to ask the NH to schedule a meeting with your sister and then you be there also to go over the issues. But I know they also don't have time to get in between any personal arguments that might be happening. Maybe a priest or other religious person can help resolve some issues. Good luck
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
2 years ago you posted here saying:
"Absolutely not. It's against the patient bill of rights whether or not she is competent. No one can stop you from seeing your mom! Period"
I loved your response! I am curious though - What part of the bill is it against? I also am in Canada and this is what I have to go on: http://ondri.ca/sites/default/files/HSF%20Patient%20Bill%20of%20Rights.pdf
and my thinking is you are in the U.S. ( I had to use a U.S. zip code to sign in to the site) so maybe we have different bills of rights. Please accept my thanks in advance for your time and any reply you may have.
It was explained to us that they do not have adequate staff to piece these issues, that the normal course of action if he shows up and creates a disturbance is to call the police which the want no part of as this will not allow disrupt my mother but all the resdents as most are in the same situation as her.
Odds are that he will cause a distrubsnce, he already did at her apartment building when denied acres by the staff (nothing to do with us, as I can't gain entry either.)
We have tried repeatedly to have rational conversations with him, to no avail. Therefore we have no other option. I am not happy about it as I would love for him to be able to visit as someone here said "in the winter of her life", but I am terrified of what will happen.
Maybe she is just doing what your parent has requested. It's harsh but maybe your parent can speak for him or herself and simply doesn't want to see or speak with you.
You can't force someone to see or speak with you, when they do not want to.
Was your relationship with your parent a good one over the years or was it toxic?
Could your presence agitate your parent and cause emotional distress?
Have you been estranged from your parent for many years, and now trying to reconnect and heal old wounds with a person who has dementia and not capable?
I would ask your sister directly what the reason is for discussion, and not involve hospital staff or your parent with dementia or drama.
He would return monthly when her SS came in and took a portion of it for his needs. All is documented. This is not however why we decided to keep him away. My brother has a violent nature, and severe self control issues. He has two outstanding warrants now and another case pending in court. He is unaware that we know this. We have on several occasions tried to explain to him our mothers condition which only results in him erupting in rage making false accusations. I believe in this is in part because he understands that the money is no longer at his disposal.
I feel that because of his personality flaws that he would be detrimental to my mother's health and let's be truthful the safety of the other patients and staff at the NH. The last thing she needs is him getting her riled or causing s problem at her residence so that they say they canno longer care for her. My job as health care proxy is to take care of her and make the best possible choices I can for her well being and that is exactly what I am doing.
If your mom is capable of speaking for herself, someone holding a HCPOA cannot stop you from seeing mom.