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My mother is a narcissist who was never really there for me if it didn’t suit her needs. She attempted suicide when I was 12. I was the one who found her and got help. She moved out to live with her BF, later to become her husband, when I was 14 under the guise of my brother and I needing a more fatherly influence. My dad moved back in at that time whom I’m very close with to this day. She divorced her husband of 35 years in her mid 70’s (he was approaching 80) because she “did not want to have to take care of an old man and use whatever financial resources she had left on his care and well-being”. He supported her and treated her like a princess their entire marriage. I moved her in with me and my 21 year old son (I’m 58) 6 months ago (seemed like a good and necessary idea at the time). Things became much more difficult over time, especially in dealing with her anxiety and other mental health issues (she has untreatable lung disease and early dementia too). She went in to what we thought would be short term care to address her psych issues and get her meds right. I have since been advised by every doctor who had seen her that she can no longer get the support she needs at home and needs 24/7 care and supervision. She completely disagrees and begs and pleads with me to “bring her home”. I’ve told her we are going by the doctors recommendations and will make changes if/when appropriate. Now she verbally attacks me saying I put her in there and I’m the reason she can’t return home. She called a few weeks ago and I answered “hi mom”. She replied “f*** you” then told me she’s onto my schemes, that all I wanted was her furniture and this was my plan all along. She leaves many messages saying the same stuff. I’ve stopped listening to her messages. I should also mention I have a brother who is like an appendix. Does nothing and only causes problems. I’ve been the only person on this planet who has taken care of her and looked after her well-being since she got sick about 5 years ago, sometimes to a fault which is something I’m working on. Setting boundaries that is. I’m guessing now she is contrite and apologetic but that’s just her manipulative ways. It won’t last if she doesn’t get what she wants. I told my brother three weeks ago I am washing my hands of my mom and turning her over to the facility or county and he can step up or not but I’ve had enough. I should also mention I am in recovery with 2 years sober and cannot risk my sobriety for anyone. So I have not spoken with her for 3 weeks and counting and I feel much better as a result. I do have a profound sense of sadness for her and the situation she’s in, although I do believe it’s the safest and best place for her well-being. I just can’t deal with the verbal attacks any longer. I say it’s just words and it doesn’t bother me but that’s just not true. It weighs very heavily on me at this point. She was never really there for me growing up and I feel, and have been told by everyone who knows the situation, that I have gone above and beyond for my mom and have nothing to feel guilty or bad about. At this point, I’d be ok with never speaking with her again. Only time will tell. I’ve received advice to contact her once in a while but I know it’ll just be more attacks and accusations. Plus it brings up a lot of the stuff I drank at to avoid having to deal with. I’ve also been advised by others to cut her off, at least for the time being. Cutting her off seems so cold. I’ve tried to engage but she makes it very difficult so this appears to be my best option. I also started therapy to help navigate through this. It’s hard to see the forest from the trees at the moment and I am second guessing myself. I will not, however, play the victim card. My life, my choices and my consequences but WTF!

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Good for you! She sounds awful. I think your actions are reasonable. Hang in there!
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The kicker here, as it often is, that you moved into her house with your son when you already had enough information to know better. It should come as no surprise that your refusal to bring her hone would result in predictable hostile, aggressive behavior. Accept the situation Ad it is, follow doctors advice, do not dispose of any of her belongings snd reestablish your own household. Let your brother and your mother know what you are doing.
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lealonnie1 Apr 2021
The OP said "I moved her in with me and my 21 year old son (I’m 58) 6 months ago (seemed like a good and necessary idea at the time)."
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Just my 2 cents, you have every right to be upset and angry.  No one deserves that treatment.  I am going through a milder case of what you are going through, the manipulation, the guilt, the tears.  I have started making boundaries with this parent.  I will make sure they are cared for, but I will not be the caregiver.  I'm the only one too.  When my parent speaks to me harshly, I say no more.  You cannot talk to me like that.  Done.  My journey is still ongoing like yours, but I will not be sucked into the manipulation.  Take a break from your mother.  You don't have to call, send a card or letter.  Try back in a month.  If the same bad treatment, make it two months.  Again, just my opinion.  You have a right to your life too!
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Dear Robert, please ignore foul and shaming comments left for you by trolls here on the forum.
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RobertK1 Mar 2021
No worries leelonnie. Thanks for the heads up but trolls are easy for me to ignore.
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God says forgive 7 times 7.
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MargaretMcKen Mar 2021
Jesus said 70 times 7, not 7 times 7. Perhaps you should "read the BIBLE" yourself.
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I hate to say it. i just don't understand why someone would send there parents away. sometimes facilities do not have the best interest for the patient only the funds they focus on. you ought to be ashamed. your mom took care of you. your being selfish. I know your mom worked hard and maybe even has a house. she could have stayed home and let someone come in to assist. that's the thing once you send someone to those places they say and do what they like. I feel so sad. One day your turn is coming and your not going to like it. I pray that you make amends with your mom give her hugs and kisses. Your brother should do the same. However, guys usually don't handle things like a woman would. they usually let there wife or girlfriend assist. I believe if you to make amends seek counseling and most of all SEEK GOD read the BIBLE you will be fine. I know its hard but that's life. No one asks to be here but we are by the Grace of God. God Bless you and your Family. Please take Heed.
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MargaretMcKen Mar 2021
Candyapple, please will you complete your profile so that we know more about your own care giving experience. Your family experience may be very very different from others, and it can affect your views. It also affects what you "just don't understand". Without knowing other posters, and without sharing your own experience, you should not judge - and I'm sure you can find that in the Bible somewhere. Your statement "you ought to be ashamed. your mom took care of you. your being selfish" is about as good as your grip on grammar.
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When she calls answer, if she is nasty hang up. Try again as often as you can. Prayer helps. Thankfully God can get us through all these situations.
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Based on a tough life and a lifetime of experiences, I learned far too late (but thank god I did finally learn) is that when people do cruel and harmful things to you that have a terrible negative impact on you, you walk away if you can't fix it - and I don't think you can fix this. You said when you didn't speak to her, you felt better - thank heaven for that. Now you must see that you must steer clear of her and start thinking of you and how to best live your life - just do it. You will be blessed. You have done enough. Now it is your time for you.
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I'm sure others here will offer support through their personal experience of similar family/mother dynamics.
* I would say, as an outsider, that you need to 'come to terms' with what is and what was by way of releasing your anger (and loving the child within YOU who didn't have the loving mother every child needs (I didn't either). In essence, I had to create a PART OF ME to be my loving supportive mother to ANOTHER PART of me as the (now) adult to that wounded child within.
* This is a process. It requires that a person (me, you) learn to love our self - in ways we didn't get as children.
* I also had to learn to feel compassion for my mother who 'did the best she could' even if it was destructive/wounding to me. She didn't know any better AND had mental health / brain chemistry that prevented her from being there in healthy ways - to herself - and to me / her children. These are aspects of AWARENESS to and of COMPASSION, ACCEPTANCE, LETTING GO = healing.
* If you want to release the wounding and weight of pain you feel now, I believe these are the components / awareness / processes necessary to do that.
* You may need to step back from you mom 'now' to allow yourself the time and energy to get there - here, to be available to her in healthy ways.
* Of course, I have regrets in how I interacted with my mother. She was a "needy' funnel who needed constant filling up. I, too, did the best I could growing up and being an adult, needing a mother. SELF and OTHER FORGIVENESS is essential to move on. This took a lot of work on my part. However, if I want(ed) to be a fully functioning being, I had to do this inner process work: COMPASSION, SELF ACCEPTANCE, FORGIVENESS. These healing qualities cannot be forced, it is a process of awareness to move forward by way of through; they must be felt.
* While I didn't do with a therapist, it certainly could help to have professional support.
* Do realize that you need 100% unconditional love and that you are the only person that can give that to YOU. Hug yourself. Often. Create affirmations for yourself and YOUR MOTHER. She is in her own kind of pain, too. You do not need to be swept up in it; just be next to it / her in a visualization . . . like sitting next to a lake. Don't jump in. Just be there with it (this is part of the model of FOCUSING-one of my favorite modalities of healing. Gena
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RobertK1 Mar 2021
Beautifully said. I am in fact working on much of what you’re suggesting. Thank you.
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I have had family members including myself go through mental illness and I'd like to help honestly. If you have any questions please contact me 👍
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You’re being extremely brave (braver than I am in my situation) in stopping contact. There’s some wonderful support in the posts below. Well done in your sobriety and good luck - it’s not easy at all. I think you’re doing the right thing. There may be a future time when you’re in a place to resume contact but for now be kind to yourself. X
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Nazdrovia Mar 2021
Im not very brave either. I don't have the luxury or mental capacity to go no contact with my narcissistic father as he lives with my husband and I. I can oy choose to interact with him as little as possible.
He has been a constant source of manipulation my whole life and dementia has not altered the process.
I can only empathise with Robert not advise him as I can't take advice myself.
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Dementia can become complex especially for those closest. In my experience with my own mother and after conferring with others, they will generally attack those closest to them. Their words can be hurtful but should be taken only as words. I, myself, had to avoid visitation for a period of time because the situation became volatile, dangerous and more than I could bare. The problem with dementia, at times, is they can recall normalcy, they remember how they functioned but do not realize they can no longer take care of themselves. As the dementia progresses, for some, they still feel they can function, even though they cannot. It can become a long and lingering process and one that will not leave. It never gets better. Medications helped my mom but to this day, years later, she still has her moments. Give yourself some time away. However, do not develop anger or hatred. Realize it is the disease process and not the person you once knew no matter how manipulative they may have been. The best words to give your mom when you visit, if she asks, is that you are waiting on a physician report. Never tell them they cannot come home. Present it as a wait and see when the doctor feels it is safe. "Never" only angers them and with dementia there is no rationalization. The best thing is to know you are doing the best thing for your mom. When you visit, lightly change subjects when the conversation leads to home. I found that thinking of humorous things to talk about before I visited helped a lot. When home would come up I would quickly ask a question about Do you remember how you made or how did you make ...? and etc. Changes their tract of mind and is a God send. Don't beat yourself up! It takes time to accept the change but visits will become more enjoyable as you learn tactics to manage them. Best of Luck and hope my experiences will help you.
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Bravo! It looks like you are finally showing care and compassion to someone who desperately needs it and actually deserves it...yourself. Take good care.
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RobertK1: Prayers sent.
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I am so sorry. I had a similar situation and set boundaries.
Fortunately, My Mom did settle into her nursing home and I was able to spend Wednesday afternoons with her for a few years. We had wonderful visits, but it took a long time to get there.
She got her medications for her anxiety under control and we developed a beautiful relationship - I never had when I was younger.
You need to take care of yourself before you can be there for your Mom. I wish you luck and know you are no good for your Mom unless you are healthy and in a good place.
Take Care
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Rob-- dementia is ongoing--- it starts insidiously -- it selectively nixes out good memories rewriting them as BAD MEMORIES !! It cruises along--on a plateau for years--- and exponentially plummets like a rock to the next level beneath-- with you and your rocking on your heels ! IT starts with mini-strokes that are almost unnoticeable-- causing a foundation of damaging telling the victim that THIS is wrong-- not the damage but outside influences-- such as loved ones. IT starts in a place in a life where ones seems ok-- but then the tell-tale signs are there... but the victim CAN live alone and is [OK] per the doctor or another medical professional who do not want to upset the victim or cause extenuate " family problems"... YOU see all the while other issues have been laying a foundation for such behavior-- such as drinking, various diets, people who will enable the victim. SO---- at this point, there have been several plateau drops and you and the medical pros have come to the realization of how soon Mom will be at to place where very little of Mom's central controller will be functioning at all.
THIS is where she will become no longer able to move around with a walker, but be stuck in a wheelchair and then a Broda-chair/rolling bed-- which is like a big rolling baby crib--- then in will pop Hospice-- which will be even less attentive than the regular Assisted Living memory care staff.
NOW -- this is a time for a wake-up call--- which will speak not about how she treated you, but how you humanely treat her in her last few years-- because--- yes-- it is true-- many of these places are--- where someone comes to die. NOW---- think about how the better hearts and souls of your family would expect you to do the "right thing" for them and think about how this little page of history is preparing you for caring for them. AND really-- you are doing a good job laying off the booze and all-- so do not think about any relapsing-- cause it ain't gonna happen--- now go be the one who is Bigger, and stronger, and more capable than she is. The Good Lord said it on the cross-- before He died-- Forgive them, they do not know what they are doing. And the truth is most of them don't. Hopefully we it is our turn to leave this place we will behave more like the humans we were raised to be. And be a small burden to our loved ones. ( amen). ( 0h-- my Mom cussed me something fierce-- but later did not remember it-- and before she died-- got kissed many times on her forehead and actually smiled like an Angel... She died with look of curiosity on her face-- maybe she did not think she was going to be allowed into the Good Place...)
Did your Mom ever have a religious experience before-- well-- when her fuddy is duddy enuf ( in total decline) -- have a Preacher come and lead her in the sinner's prayer and get her soul ready for eternity.
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Leo1972 Feb 2021
I totally understand your faith gets you through the day and I’m glad you feel that it’s so helpful to you. I totally respect that and you are free to live your life how you choose. Please allow others their beliefs and the choice to live their own lives. The OP has had to deal with manipulation and emotional blackmail from childhood and while you may not realise it or intend this in your post - you’re reinforcing that manipulation. Please be careful. My best wishes to you. X
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Robert,

I feel your pain and have a very similar story myself. You are not alone. I am 61 and my mom was 83 when she died a month ago from Covid. I took my mom's car keys away in November and she was very abusive with me about that. A month later, I put her in a skilled nursing group home because she fell all the time and was spending more time in the hospital - or laying on the floor refusing to call for help - than at home) She fought with me about every step of the way including some of the same language your mom used (You want to put me away and take my stuff...) I found this forum and was encouraged by the support of others in similar situations. I come from a sexually abusive family (me and my two sisters).

I have two thoughts for you. 1) Do you want a relationship with your mother. It is a yes or no question but can be complicated. If the answer is no then you have no obligation to care for your mother. Cut her loose and go on with your life as if she was a stranger. If the answer is yes (as was my case), then you have to realize that old age and dementia factor into your strategy.

I basically had to disassociate myself from the parent/child paradigm and view my mother as a sick old lady who needed care. Based on MY decision to take responsibility for my mother, I had to cowboy-up and deal with the insults etc. as if I were dealing with a 4 year old child. If you stay in this relationship, you have to realize that things have changed. She is no longer the "mom", but a sick old lady.

It is tough. I know. Best of luck to you.
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Reading the sort of life you had as a youngster I do not think you owe her anything. She was your birth mother and nothing more.. Giving birth does not give anyone the right to a loving child if they do not love and nuture them... If you feel a bit guilty write to her,, with whatever your news is, as if she is interested.. Ignore the replies,,, if they are not nice and on no account go and subject yourself to that abuse. You are still recovering and well done you , dont jeopodize it. She probably resents that she is old and incapable, or maybe it is some kind of dementia.. whatever it is is not your problem.. Do not let it affect you
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RobertK1, I’ve broken off all personal contact with my mother, because she is no longer my Mum. My Mum has gone and the person that remains is just an angry, cruel facade, who does not deserve or appreciate me or my love. I still manage her care at the aged facility where she resides permanently. I am fortunate because she loves it there and she’s told me that the staff are now her family (she doesn’t socialise with the other residents). Like you I am sad and I grieve the loss of my Mum but I will only see the ‘facade’ again when the dementia has taken away any memory of me and she will greet me like a stranger and we can exchange pleasantries and I can hold her hand and let her know that I care.

Don’t feel guilty, move on and look after yourself. I realised that there were people in my life that wanted the old happy me, not the broken, stressed, sad, angry person that I had become. Live YOUR life.
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Sweetheart2019 Feb 2021
Hi sorry to bother you. I just want to know as a person who has your family member in a nursing home do you recommend that to other people. Are the staff treat their patients good or are they mean to them? The reason that I am asking because people around me telling me don’t put your father in a memory care because they will going to abuse him. I will appreciate if you give me some advice.🙏🏼
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Maybe you could start off with cards or letters. You can say what you need to say and seal the envelope. Always include something to address the problems: I hope you are doing well and I wish things were different so you could both talk with each other without any anger. See where it goes.
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Nobody wants to be in care. I get the same from my husband many times every day. It’s hard when the person involved still has a lot of mental capacity. The phone is a curse. However I feel you should remain as her advocate to ensure that her needs and care are being met. You can liaise with the care co-ordinator to do this and the appointed GP. FOR GOODNESS SAKE DONT LET her manipulations impose on your life anymore Don’t feel guilty for the way you feel about her. She’s nearing the end. Hang in there
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Hi there,
You've done your best. Counselling is a good idea but sobriety is a better one. As people have said, you need to look after yourself. And forget the BS.
If you look at my page, I have had a few dramas with my elderly Dad. It's been close to a year now and I haven't spoken to him, it is such a relief. I go around and see my Mum who still lives with him but I don't even turn my head to look at him. Not because I hate him, but I'm so tired of the BS. He can't help it and I won't take it anymore.
For a while he yelled and swore each time he saw me, then he realised he wasn't getting an emotional reaction (I work with disabled children, and I don't take their behaviours personally, so I started applying this to my Narcissist Dad, after all it is a mental health condition) and then he went quiet. Now he's asking my Mum why I don't come home to live with them. The manipulation never stops, but ageing Narcissists are sort of imploding (or like the witch in the Wizard of Oz, melting).
What I have found is that as his life ends I need to grieve for my life with him. He was an angry abusive alcoholic, who hurt a lot of people. I need to acknowledge that (by crying when I feel sad) and let it go.
My advice to you is stick to the Program, go to meetings, and tell yourself until you believe it that you are not responsible for how your Mum feels, and you are looking after her in the best possible way by taking the Dr.'s advice.

Be very kind to yourself.
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You're doing the right thing - stay the course. You're right not to risk your sobriety. Feeling sad and conflicted is very natural in this situation! You're finally acting in your own best interests after a lifetime of a narcissist mother. That's a huge change, important, and difficult. A process.. Good for you, keep going to therapy, keep working on your sobriety.
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My mother was a Skisko...and the same thing happened to me time and time again, and if you apologize start a conversation 1st, you lose. Believe me...let her talk to you 1st, and while you're into the conversation, nicely ask for an apology, unless she has severe dementia and does not remember the incident. In that case, just let it slide, and talk about whatever she wants, but be upbeat, and don't let her get into whatever starts her off, or goes into any kind of topic that makes her mad or angry.
If she starts mouthing off again, just say good-bye politely and hang up. Do not let her control the conversation. The conversations, no matter what should be equally shared like any two adults talking. The fact that she is your mother does not give her any right to verbally attack you in any way. I know that the Golden Rule is ' Honor thy Father and thy Mother', but not when they turn into animals, and then all bets are off and get on with your life because she can ruin it, and make your life miserable, which is outside the boundaries of the Golden Rule.
This may be difficult to do, but when I had to put my mother into a nursing home when I went to visit her, the staff asked me how did I put up with the 'Devil' they had in room 142..my mother;'s room. They told me she made up stories, lied like a little child who wanted anything they did not need to have, and demanded the staff do anything to the point that some of the nurses refused to answer her button calls, knowing what was coming....being blasted if they did not do EXACTLY what she wanted, and ASAP. My mother abused me physically and verbally for years, ever since I could talk. The neighbors never believed me because if she wanted something that she thought the neighbors would do for her, she turned into Mother Teresa, and then back and forth. She knew how to play the game really well, and as soon as I was 18, I was gone. Unfortunately, my father had some mild strokes and heart attacks, and I had to go over to their home every week to do all the chores on the inside and outside, but when she started on me, I dropped anything I was doing...one time she came outside when I was cutting the lawn and told me that she wanted the grass cross-cut, like some of the neighbors did. I shut off the power mover, left it in the front yard, got in my car., rolled down the window, and told her...start doing the cross-cut, because I had no idea what she meant, and the grass grew all that week until I came over the next week, 6 days later, and the front yard was just as I left it...the part I cut was lower, and the part that I did not finish was twice as high as the part I did cut, and I went into the house, and she was boiling mad. I told her to get the kid who cut the neighbor's lawns to do cut the high grass part, and then I would finish it all. She told me that I was abandoning them, which was a joke, and all the neighbors wondered why their lawn looked so funny, and I was laughing as I drove away. If I would have started, it would have been another war with her, and then my father would be all upset, and he was really sick, and she did not give a hoot about him, just what she wanted. It took a few years of therapy to get all of this out of my system, and now I look back, and I had a 'Devil for a Mother'
So it's up to you...live your life, or you can live both lives...I wish you the very best and make the right choice.
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It sounds like we have the same mother , I'm praying for you, stay strong. I have no answer , sorry just prayers.
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taz0921 Feb 2021
Trish...my mother passed away, and even after her death, I needed counseling, but I am on the road to a peaceful life.

I hope that you too can find that peaceful area soon.
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TALK TO YOUR MOM!!! What you are doing now to her is wrong! You need to understand her circumstances at this time and put yourself in her place. She is alone and afraid. Dementia is a horrible disease and people do sometimes act out. Keep that in mind and try to forgive her for these things. She can not help it right now. She needs you!!!
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Leo1972 Feb 2021
Go back and read the post again - this is a situation going back to childhood not a new development. Please don’t post if you’re not being supportive, this should be a judgement free zone. I understand what you’re saying in your response however we are all in different circumstances and need to be there for each other. I’m sorry for sounding sanctimonious here and I don’t mean any harm to you. Stay safe x
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TFour things:
1. your sobriety comes FIRST.
2. Let the Doctors be the fall-guys --they ARE the ones to said she needed 24/7 care, not you
3. send her a greeting card every week to maintain some line of communication. You will feel better about it now and later.
4. if she abuses you on the phone, hang up, having told her that you will not accept that behavior from her.
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DonnaF777 Feb 2021
It hasIt has been that one out of 25 people is a psychopath. This means they have no conscience. My mom was like your mother. We worked to support her while in junior high and High School. My brother finally went in the Navy during the Vietnam war to get away from her. She insisted on going everywhere with me in my car or I had to go with her in her car until I was 24 years old. She insisted on being in charge of my dating life. As soon as I got my driver's license I was to drive her everywhere. I was the one working but she was the one that had to go with me when I had vacation time. My mother would never listen to anything that us kids said to her. We never could disagree with her because she was always right!! I tried but she would get angry and shout. That is all she knew how to do. I learned to hate my mother. She accused me of going to bed with one of her boyfriend. She would go to my brother's work and get their paychecks all the years they supported five people. They never saw one paycheck all the years they worked to support us. Please your mother is not going to ever change. Set your boundaries and stick to them. When she starts being inappropriate walk away or hang up ...do not go back and do not respond in any way. Do not give her the power over you. She has power over you and she knows it and she will continue to use it if you allow that to happen. Dont. And with dementia it's only going to get worse. My mother died when I was 32. She was 59
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From a woman who was married to a narcissistic husband, you have nothing to feel badly about. Let me repeat that. NOTHING.

Dealing with a narcissist is like being a hamster on a hamster wheel. You try and you try and you try, and the end result is that you get nowhere fast.

There is one line in your post that stuck out ... which was something along the lines of you feeling your mom is in the best place right now for her safety and mental well-being. There’s your answer. Go back to that whenever you feel confused, guilty, sad, etc.

And one other thing to consider, if financially able ... you might consider hiring a geriatric case manager. These folks are usually social workers and can oversee your mom’s care and report to you about the goings-on with her. (Basically, they’re miracle workers in my book.)
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Hello I'm sorry you are dealing with this I know it must be stressful. I am fortunate enough to have a loving, caring mom, I'm sorry youve had to deal with so much. I had a toxic relative who was verbally abusive for many years and I had to cut him off...and I found alot more peace of mind afterwards, so I get it. I had to be there for him when he was dying..and I don't regret that, actually wish I had done more in hindsight. I would suggest avoid cutting her off forever because she is your mom, but you have to protect yourself as well. Sounds like you have a good heart and it might eat you up later, after she passes if you do that. For now, try communicating with her through letters and cards, etc. Perhaps it will give you a chance to explain things to her without rude interruptions and insults etc. Good luck to you, my friend.
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Congratulations on maintaining 2 years of sobriety. That is a commendable achievement and protecting that does come first.

I am not sure who the people are that are suggesting you continue contact even on an occasional basis. But they do not bear listening to.

I cannot imagine how horrific it was for you to find your mother after her suicide attempt.

You are 100% allowed to go no contact with your mother. Additionally, I would block her phone number. I know you said you do not answer, nor listen to the messages, but I know from personal experience, just getting the calls can be triggering. If there is an emergency the facility will call you.
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