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My mother in law is in her late seventies. Her sister just recently passed away and her other sister is in and out of the hospital on a regular basis. With her older sisters recent passing, none of the decisions for funeral planning or...I am not sure how to say this correctly...where to put her were made or expressed in advance. (One of her four children had to fit the bill entirely on her own. The poor girl had to put the entire thing on her credit card...and I am sure by knowing her siblings will be paying it off on her own as well). The siblings that didn't bother to help of course had a boat load of opinions and wanted to disagree about everything. I feel unless my mother in law gets it together...we will be stuck with all of the finances and have to deal with the deadbeat siblings in our family. She absolutely refuses to even discuss it. When I told her that my husband and myself have a plot already paid for and have very precise instructions as to our choices, she told me she didn't care what we decided. I asked her if she had any money set aside for this (she has about $1700 a month in disposable income). Her response to me was that, it is not her responsibility to pay for it, that we have to deal with that. (Excuse me, what?) We built a thousand square foot mother in law apartment/addition onto our home. It has a separate entrance, separate yard, we fully furnished it with the furniture she chose and put in all the appliances and fixtures, flooring she wanted...so on and so on. She pays no rent or utilities of any kind. My husband paid off her car and pays the insurance and maintenance. Mind you, we live in a subdivision and still have a mortgage and now a second mortgage due to this. I was flabbergasted. What? I am fully annoyed. The fact that she will not even address the topic is very frustrating, but the fact that she feels we should provide for her funeral and burial without even making an attempt to take care of it on her own. Frustrating. Have you had this talk with your parents, did they make these decisions...did they avoid it? Did they expect you to pay for it? I am at a loss. I feel we have done so much and I do not think what we are asking of her is out of line. Maybe uncomfortable, but not out of line. How do we make her understand she needs to address this.

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Since you stated your MIL's sister just recently passed away, maybe now is not the best time to discuss this. As time goes on and if she still is avoiding the topic, you can have your husband (her own son) let her know that if her estate doesn't have enough funds to cover the funeral her body will be donated to science (although not every body is accepted).

Otherwise: "...you can sign a release form with your county coroner’s office that says you can’t afford to bury the family member. If you sign the release, the county and state will pitch in to either bury or cremate the body. The county may also offer you the option to claim the ashes for a fee. But if these also go unclaimed, they will bury the ashes in a common grave alongside other unclaimed ashes." You should call your county to see what their policy is. If MIL is ok with this final plan then so be it. But do try to get your husband to broach the topic with her instead of you. Your hubby should also let his siblings know that this will be the plan unless MIL starts saving up. Or, depending on how many siblings there are, if each agreed in advance to kick in $500 (including MIL) then she could have a no-frills, no service, no wake, no burial cremation. Good luck!
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She has $1700 in disposable income and is not paying rent? Of course she feels entitled, you have created a monster. Time for some boundaries to be put in place.

First start charging her rent. $595 per month is 35% of her income., Me, I would be charging more to to cover utilities. Put the rent collected right onto your mortgage.

Second, let her know that unless she prepays and plans her funeral, you will be donating her body. She does not seem to care what happens, so let a teaching university or other place that takes the remains of the indigent take her away.

Third, her car. Unless you hubby is on the registration, why would he pay it off for her? That makes no sense at all. Even once she pasy you rent she will have $1100 per month for food, car payments, insurance etc.

Stop making life easy for her. She is an adult woman who needs to be held responsible for her expenses. What on earth is she spending $1700 per month on?
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cherokeegrrl54 Oct 2019
So agree with everything you just said!!!!
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Has she ever spoken about her burial before? That’s just odd. She must have some idea of what she wants. Where was your father in law buried? Do you have a family plot? Was he cremated?

What about your husband? Has he spoken to her about this? Have the other children spoken to her about it?

Why is she living rent free? I did that too. It puts a dent in your wallet. Finally mom started paying for some expenses.

Why is your husband paying her car her car insurance and maintenance?

Why does she feel that you should pay for her burial expenses?

Tell her that you have your own expenses and you will not be paying for it. Is she leaving money in a will for you to cover her expenses?

Does she want cremation or casket? You can’t plan anything if you don’t know. That’s stressful.

Donating a body to science is available. My uncle did that.

Cremation is the least expensive. So if money is tight. I wouldn’t hesitate to have her cremated. I would not count on your in-laws to help.

Does she have a bank account with surplus money? What does she do with her money. You all have provided everything that she could possibly need, right? Am I missing something? Please fill me in if I am.

Best wishes for you and hubby. I would be flabbergasted too.
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MAYDAY Oct 2019
ARmstrong Cremations in Los Angeles... They are good and hlepful.
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And she is not paying rent...Why? Where is your husband in all of this? He sounds like he is an enabler to his mother.

I wouldn't worry about what to do with her after she dies, cremations are inexpensive and she won't know the difference. The days of the big showoff funeral are long gone.

Start charging her rent, $600 a month is a nice round figure. Stop enabling her.

If you husband doesn't have her durable POA time to get it.

The problem is not her, it is that you and your husband have no boundaries. Say what you mean and mean what you say.
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Harpcat Oct 2019
Excellent! Although I do think the mother feels entitled and they have enabled her
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I was going to say "WHY to make this happen?" seeing as your MIL does not want to plan her funeral; but at least I now understand your reasons for wanting there at least to be a plan. The reason - that if there isn't a plan, you and your husband will get lumbered with the bill - is a perfectly good one.

But you still can't make your MIL address the issue if she doesn't want to; and the harder you try, and the heavier the hints you drop, the closer you are to being not matter of fact but brutal. Leave it.

I don't suppose you could turn that purpose built apartment into a mausoleum, and stick her under the floorboards..? Just to indulge in a little whimsy, there.

If I were you I'd start researching rock bottom basic funeral options now, and present them to the other (hypothetical) bill payers. This is how much mother's funeral is going to cost YOU. Start saving, and if you think there aren't enough frills start saving harder.

For the record, my mother regarded me narrowly whenever I made diplomatic noises on the subject. She later answered "anywhere but bloody H___shire" when my brother asked where she would like her remains to go; but this was merely a retrospective protest about having been "forced" to move to the countryside (by me). Finally, she went for contributing herself to medical research or places of learning, but the paperwork for that never got done by her Chosen Ones.

I decided that I had done the care while she was alive, and my responsibility would cease with her.

On which point, though - has your MIL made a will? Is your husband her executor?
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If she doesn't plan - it doesn't have to be expensive. No funeral and do an inexpensive cremation.
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We just planned in-laws funerals. $11000 for casket, vault, grave opening, gravesite service only, transport of body, cost of obit. And embalming since relatives are on west coast. Does not include flowers or gravestone. She had the plot. For FIL who wants to be cremated, $2900. VA will pay for service and placement of ashes in grave. He wants to be with other war veterans with white grave marker
we made arrangements two weeks before leaving for a trip for west coast family wedding. Good thing. MIL died day of wedding.

funeral costs are really so high. In your case, you need to get your husband on board to get her to contribute. Or you will beggar yourselves. Her income will stop when she dies and you won’t benefit from that. So get her contribution now to pay off your second mortgage.
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NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2019
Crazy!
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She could get a small insurance policy to cover final expenses. I would make sure there's no cash in value and stipulate it for funeral so Medicaid can't touch it.

I would also sit her down and make sure she understood that because of 2 mortgages, her car paid off and her insurance covered its up to her to put money aside. If she is not willing to this, then she can pay for her car insurance. She should be paying what she can of the second mortgage. Paying for personal items and any special foods she likes, you don't. I believe parents should pay their way. When they can't then we step in. No way was I going to foot the bill just so my brothers could have an inheritance. I love my brothers, but they never went out of their way for Mom. Never understood why, she was a good mother.

I would also tell her if u pay for it, it will be cremation. No funeral service, no viewing, no graveside service.
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NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2019
Good points, JoAnn
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If possible, donate her body to science. From what others have said, the body will be cremated and ashes sent to you at no charge. She has been an ingrate parasite long enough. It would be good if she could contribute something to society in return.
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Harpcat Oct 2019
This is exactly my thoughts!!
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One thing to consider is is this attitude she's giving you normal behavior for her? If not, she might have been deflecting because of her grief over her sisters/a legitimate fear of talking about death. My dad never discussed what he wanted done, granted he also didn't expect me to pay for it, but I would have had my mom not had the money to do so. It may be that this topic is too uncomfortable for her to talk about. You and your husband may want to come up with cheap tasteful plan as a backup just in case. Then I would take that same plan to the siblings and tell them they will need to chip in their share when the time comes. It may also be she's assuming your husband and his siblings will receive inheritance, and that they should use that to pay. If she comes around to discussing it again, it might be worth mentioning that she may end up in a nursing home and not have any money left to leave her kids. If she acts like this often, or about other subjects, it maybe time to set some boundaries as others have suggested. Doesn't mean it's your fault, but boundaries might be beneficial if she's giving an attitude after all the financial help you guys give her.
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We finally got my MIL to purchase a plot. She went on a drunken binder for a week afterwards. Guess she didn't want to face her own mortality. Don't get me wrong, I loved my MIL. She lived with us of and on for years and she and I got along great.
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Funerals are so personal...and so expensive. And at the most vulnerable time -- the death of a loved one -- family members have to make decisions. Decide now. If your MIL said it was "up to you to deal with it," then let it be up to you, right? There are inexpensive ways to deal with death in this country. Choose from those, and decide now how YOU want to deal with her death. We paid $1500 for a cremation plan, and an extra $200 for death certificates, for my mother. It's what she wanted...and it's what she's getting. Why spend a lot of money on pomp and circumstance, if you don't want to, right? Have a get together at your home and bid her well and be done with it. Funeral plans/disposal plans, if you will, are so inexpensive that you can buy a plan now, or wait until MIL passes. Start looking around and get the best price. There's no reason that you or she has to spend money on an elaborate ceremony that causes stress and severely depleted bank accounts.
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bigsispjt Oct 2019
My mother is 86. She moved where we lived about 3 years zgo6. She's long said she doesn't want a funeral and she has no friends here. My siblings live out of town, so really just a few of my fr6sould show up.

Thank you for helping me think through the idea of a small memorial service. It seems a shame not to honor her in some way.
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Is anyone POA for Mom? It appears no Life Insurance Either, Poor Planning on Her no Heart Part. Everyone will need to Pony Up to Bury her as Cheaply as they Can, Ma'am. How sad. Hopefully, You can Reimburse yourself With Whatever is left in her account. I doubt she is Spreading her Wealth after Death.
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Mention its time for her to pay rent as no one lives for free anywhere and save the money for her funeral.
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First, I can’t believe she doesn’t pay anything towards her part of living there! Are you independently wealthy? Perhaps so. But regarding funeral arrangements since she says it’s up to others, you can tell her that either she will be cremated and ashes scattered or donate her body to medical science which costs nothing. Ask her wish she prefers since it’s your decision. or don’t ask her. I would NOT go into debt over any funeral, that is asinine. She sounds like she is more than a bit entitled doesn’t she?
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Time to call the Neptune Society
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It is each person's responsibility to pay for their own funeral. Otherwise it becomes the government's responsibility. She sounds frightened (and stubborn)
i believe this can also be added to a tax bill. Could the cost be split up and levied on each sibling's property tax bill? May cause trouble, but are you close to the others anyway??
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Isthisrealyreal Oct 2019
Government = taxpayers
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Wow! I would talk to an attorney that handles elder care and make her go with you. Tell her she has to have a power if atty made Incase one is needed. The lawyer will then expl that a will and a living will should be done as well.

If she’s unwilling to at least do that, tell her all her money will go to the state and wasted. That a will would be able to leave it to a charity or whatever she wants.
I also would get yourself an attorney and have a paper written up that under no circumstances are you financially responsible for her debt or funeral cost. Sort of turn the cheek. She shouted wolf now it’s your turn to charge her rent, car insurance, etc and put that money in savings for her funeral and let her know Cremation is much less expensive so that’s what you plan to do to her. No burial just ashes in a shoebox. This is tough love but it needs to be addressed.
I had a client do that and once their loved one heard she got a prepaid policy and a cemetery plot all paid in full!
I know this is hardening when you have helped her out of love and friendship, but she’s not in agreement and besides let your husband handle her after all he’s enabling her by paying her expenses and giving in to her every whim! You stay out of it . This will cause serious endings in your marriage if he won’t put her straight.
good luck. This is his mom and his responsibility.
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TaylorUK Oct 2019
And making her go see the elder attorney is done how?? I don't have the particular funeral issue as mother has a prepaid plan, but there are plenty of other issues and she isn't going to see anyone about any of those and I cannot force her.
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I am 78, closer to 79 and I will NOT put this on my kids. I told my kids I want to be creamated and have monies set aside for it. I'm so sorry that woman is putting this all on you. And when the time comes if others won't help foot the bill I'd go the cheapest route. If MIL won't discuss it I'd tell her if it's all on you that you choose creamatiom.
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NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2019
You’re sweet. I feel the same way. Why should our kids pay?
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Great, she’s put it in your hands. Cremation and whatever is cheapest. No guilt.
I truly understand how upset you feel- it should be her decision and responsibility.
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Actually, a lot of people feel that the responsibility of the funeral is on the ones remaining behind. You'd be surprised, maybe not so much anymore, how few actually plan for their own funerals.

I don't think my DH had given it much thought, he buried his first wife and I think he just figured it would be the responsibility of his children to do his funeral.

Thank God, I am a 'saver' and 'planner' and we already had our double plot and the tombstone before he passed, so all I had to pay for was his cremation, an urn and to have his Veteran's Marker mounted.

I have enough saved to take care of my final expenses too - I'm just not sure who will be left to take charge. But I'm not going to spend the rest of my life worrying. The money is there, enough to cover all the final expenses. Praise God I am not in debt.
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anonymous275053 Oct 2019
Good for You Ray. My guess is that You lived through very tough times and You worked very hard and were great at making honest money and did not squander. My Parents were exactly the same they worked very hard and saved, but never borrowed. My Da used to advise all of His Children 'neither a Borrower nor a Lender be, If You haven't got it, work hard and save. I am glad that I have taken my Fathers advice as it is wonderful to have financial freedom, and not to beholding to any one. You do contribute very well on this
site Ray, keep up posting.
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Sit down at the table where she can see you and what you are doing.
Write out a list...
Funeral with 2 days for the wake is $$$$$$
Funeral with just the 1 day view and burial is $$$$
Cremation with no viewing and simple box is $$$
Donating body to medical research with body returned cremated ...Pretty much free...
List phone numbers for the medical research and info on how to contact them when she passes and a contact name.
That might just get her thinking that you will NOT foot the bill for the service and if she wants the "send off" she wants then she has to help plan and pay for it now so that she is sure to get what she wants.
My Husband was never one to talk about funerals and what he wanted it was not until I talked to his sister that she told me he had always said he wanted to be put next to him mom. That is what I did....
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It is selfish and I would just flat out tell her that if she leaves this earth with plans not made, you will take care of it the cheapest way possible which means cremation and her ashes put in a box in the attic.  You are not responsible for her.  It would be one thing if she was destitute, but apparently she is not.  Just tell her you'll take care of it and give her a wink. LOL
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Davenport Oct 2019
Meh, I’d go further and say don’t bother with even saying it; just do it when ...
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I had this talk with my parents and finally convinced my father to at least get the burial plot, which we did. These are tough discussions to have, but are necessary.
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I would be very frank with her that if she doesn’t fork out the money (which she obviously has if she saves a bit) she will be cremated (at lowest cost possible) and there will be no additional ceremonies due to insufficient funds. If she wants to know there is a funeral service or a nice burial or wants a casket, etc, tell her “no.” Your family could have an open house in someone’s home for mourning purposes but no need for anything else.

If she balks at this, tell her to pay up and to be loving to her progeny rather than punish them when they are already grieving. These are my thoughts. [You've obviously been incredibly generous already!].
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People handle funeral planning differently. Some avoid it, some have it planned to a tee. It sounds like it’s not a priority for her. So something modest will probably suffice. Cremation is always cheaper. I would discuss with husband and start preparing now. No need to be harsh. Her sister has just died and I’m sure grieving while looking at her own mortality. Enjoy her for the time she’s here.
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since I had poa, I went to funeral chapel to get pre pay; used what she had in bank a/c. Since we have joint bank a/c I paid for everything except Rabbi...which will be done separately at the time. My brother contributed half of initial deposit.

I also chose graveside which is less expensive. The family is small probably be at most around 20-25 people at most...same people who were at her 90 Bday party.

You have poa? Even if you don’t you can go to get pre plan for her. She don’t sound like in shape to deal with those things & there’s nothing you can do unfortunately to change it. Hugs 🤗
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Start charging her rent.

Get an insurance agent over there right away and your husband should insist she pay for the final expense policy.
Let her know unless she pays the monthly premiums, which can be deducted from her checking account, she will be cremated. Leave that information on her kitchen table.
You can't change her selfishness, but you can be proactive. Something tells me your husband has always been UBER responsible when it comes to his family.
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Seems you have financial issues with MIL, and not just about the funeral. If she has the income, why doesn't she pay utilities or mortgage for her place... essentially for her own needs? Why are you footing the bills for her transportation as well if she has a means to do so? Maybe you need to renegotiate those issues first.

Next, she doesn't seem to care about whatever you do with her after she passes. OK, get used to that idea. It gives you freedom to NOT spend a lot on her memorial. She obviously doesn't care about having a funeral plot, a huge memorial service or the huge expense incurred with the whole business. The least expensive ways to deal with her remains are donation and cremation. Medical schools needs patients to practice on - the dead - and the costs incurred are transportation to the medical school and preserving the body. Cremation involves the cost of cremation - a casket is not needed. You can do whatever you want with her ashes that give you peace. The least expensive is donation for organ harvest and tissue research. The cost of removing organs for harvest is borne by the recipient. The remains can then be donated for tissue research. The recipient organization will take all the tissue samples they need and cremate the remains. The family of the donor will receive the ashes of unused tissues in about 2-3 weeks without charge.

Memorials need not be expensive. When my FIL passed. We had a nice celebration of life in our church. The room was free since we are members. I bought some simple refreshments and we placed pictures of Dad throughout the room. My hubby gave a short eulogy about his dad and then people were encouraged to share memories with the group. We ended our time in prayer. Talk with your hubby and family about what kind of activities you would like to remember MIL by. Remember that funerals and memorials are for the living and not the dead.
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Donate her body to a local medical school. They will likely pay for the cremation after they are finished with the body. They also may hold a service. Tell everyone that was her wish and be done with it.
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Davenport Oct 2019
Just to note, my sister’s hubby and his sis did just that, according to parents’ wishes, to their alma mater, UCLA. A few years later found themselves plaintiffs in a class action lawsuit. UCLA Med had been commingling all ashes, and where the mass ashes went, no one knows for sure. (The folks would’ve just laughed and laughed, but still ...)
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