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The NH my dad has been in since late September, is generally fantastic. I don't actually have many complaints on his care. He's always clean, freshly dressed, never wet, they tidy him up if he makes a mess at a meal. Most of the nurses are attentive and kind. And there are only a few aides that make me nervous. So that's not my problem, today.


My problem is this... gossip in the dining room among staff, gossip from a couple aides when they're helping my dad. He's mostly all there mentally and, maybe for lack of anything to talk about, he tells my mom and I what he heard the staff gossip about at lunch. We've heard that the aides are nervous because the NH is hiring per diem staff, we've heard that first shift aides do not like second shift aides (even suggesting one of them is causing injuries) and vice versa, we've heard about bickering between aides over who got a fifty-cent raise and who didn't. We even heard one aide, his favorite first shift aide, respond to the fact that someone else left his call button out of reach with "some people are just not even worth it."


This makes me uncomfortable, him hearing these things that could cause him to not trust the people he has to rely on.


But... am I making a mountain out of a molehill?


Or should we talk to someone about this? And who? We're new at this.



Another thing is that I do his laundry and, the day after Christmas, I was four pairs of pants, four white tees, four shirts and... one pair of socks. They weren't changing his socks unless it was bath/shower day and that, to me, seems not quite right. I think it was his favorite first shift aide, who got the fifty-cent raise mind you. He says he didn't tell her I noticed that, but his socks have been changed every day since. And now... she's offered to do his laundry.



And I'm confused.



So, basically, from all of you have been through this before... when do you say something? How do you know when something is worth saying? My mom's offered to talk to people, and he's always said "I have to live with this people" and I get that so... any help?



And I hope your New Years are merry and bright!

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Why not ask your dad to stop repeating the gossip to you?
personally this isn’t a hill I’d chose to die on. The staff is going to talk to each other. Sure it sounds like they may be having some discussions in front of residents that they probably shouldn’t be. But in the grand scheme of things, this isn’t something I would lodge a complaint about. The laundry & changing him, that on the other hand is something you should address.
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Is it strange that I don't want to ask him to stop repeating the gossip because then I worry we wouldn't have anything to talk about?

I am leaning toward what you said, that it's not the hill to die on. And it's all hearsay anyway, though I may go sit with him at lunch one day. I think the staff takes for granted that it's a dining room for people who need a lot of assistance and are choking hazards, so they maybe assume nobody is with it enough to care.

Would you address the socks and laundry straight to the aide? I think she might be an LPN so if not her, who is the boss of the aides? The nurses?
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Unless the staff discuss residents inappropriately, my advice would be to close your ears to this gossip. If your father tells you about it, respond as though he were talking about a tv soap opera - sound interested, but take it nowhere.

The thing is: they shouldn't be doing it, certainly. It will be in their codes of conduct, they will have been lectured about it, every so often Management will send out memos warning people about disciplinary offences yadayadayada. But all of these principles around corporate confidentiality and professional boundaries are more honoured in the breach than the observance. You won't stop the background chatter by bringing what you've learned to anyone's attention, but you might get somebody fired.

If it happens in your hearing, you can look the person in the eye and say, in a friendly, humorous way: "should you be telling me this?"

The socks, the socks. Sigh. I expect what happens is that they ask your father if he wants clean socks, and not wanting to create work he says no. He may even say "no, they were clean on only yesterday." Try to train him to say "yes please :)" and take it as a matter of course.
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You should have regular care conferences set up at the SNF; that's when you can bring up issues like his laundry & socks, etc. As far as the gossip is concerned, I wouldn't take it too seriously. My mother LIVES for the gossip in her Memory Care community, but I take it all with a grain of salt. I figure she's getting half of it wrong, and exaggerating the other half. Somewhere in between is a tidbit of truth. I'm not sure you can rely 100% on the messages your father is repeating anyway, as you know how the old game "Operator" goes! LOL

If you are happy with the SNF in general, I'd let that issue alone if it were me. Care givers are always going to talk among themselves, as inappropriate as it may be.

Happy New Year to you, too!
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feelinglost8 Dec 2019
Yeah, the tidbit of truth thing is very real. Now and for a long time, long before he had to go into a NH, my dad would change the story slightly if you asked him for clarification. It's like... he always wants to come out looking best. And I suspect that's partly why he tells us the gossip... to show us he's still on the ball.
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I would forget about the gossip, my step mother thinks everyone is staring at her and talking about her. I can guarantee you that she is not that important to anyone else.

I would let it be for now, as for the laundry why not let the home do it, no reason for you to do it.

Sometimes we need to let go, and, just worry about keeping our side of the street clean.
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It took me a couple of months to trust the home to do Moms wash. But I found they did a better job of getting the smells out and stains, The laundress said it was the soap they were required to use. The residents always looked clean and no smells. The only problem I had were socks. Mom had 15 pr and only 3pr came back from the laundry at any given time. I nicely asked the laundress why, she said alk those socks have to be matched up. Think about that. Having a pile of socks and having to match them up for every resident.

The gossip...I would mention it to the DON. Not good for the Facility for a resident or a family member to hear this. And everywhere I have worked, discussing your salary with a fellow worker can get u fired. It can cause condescension in the workforce. I wouldn't tell the DON who it was.
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feelinglost8 Dec 2019
DON is Director of Nursing?
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Go to walmart or any such store & get a laundry marker. Mark all there cloths with there last name & room number. Use a light color so the ink shows up. This is at first a lot of work but helpful & worth it. Don't by real expensive clothing it may come up missing. My mom's pants would till I caught on. It's ok to let house keeping do the laundry. Get to know the head nurse & all the shift nurses. I was there so much they all thought I worked there. Also get to know the social worker. Never be afraid to say anything. You have to be your parents help. I have gotten one person fired & 2 removed from the floor. Always talk to & listen to your parents. Check there bodies out for unusual marks, brusies, sores & such. There depending on you to protect them & care for them. They can't. There was an aid who was verbally abusing my mom & one who was lazy & neglecting her & one who just showed up to do things when she figured someone was watching. Always ask questions about everything. If your like me you'll figure out what aids & nurses are there because they want to be & love there jobs & those who just need a pay check. After 13 years in the nursing home situation I know quite a lot. Be on a constant alert.
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feelinglost8 Dec 2019
That actually helped me a lot, because I was worried I was asking too many questions. But I always ask what aide he had, then take stock of how he looks, or what nurse was on duty and when he got his meds. I think I keep it under "Making Conversation" but I also really want, need to know.

My mom and I are trying to vary the times we go too, because everybody's commented about how my dad's so lucky we go so often... now we want to keep everybody on their toes.

And one aide did tell me how other NHs in the area pay more for CNAs like her and I was thinking "couldn't get a job there, huh?"
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I think that I would tell the DON about the help button being placed out of reach because this resident is not considered worth it. That is something that could end in a tragedy for some poor old soul.

The rest of it is just immature chatter from people that don't like their jobs. Let it go.

It is good that he is getting clean socks everyday now, but realize that the offer to take over his laundry could be a move to cover that he is not getting clean clothes everyday.

I would bet that your dad enjoys the gossip and having something interesting to share with you all. Let him have his fun and listen for red flags, like call buttons being intentionally set out of reach.
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feelinglost8 Dec 2019
He does enjoy the gossip and having something interesting to share! He went into LTC only a year after retiring and as long as I've been aware, he's always repeated the gossip he heard at work and things. I think the year in between, when his health was not good, he missed that. So you're right, I'll let him have his fun and listen for red flags in the stories. Thanks!
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I am with Cali. This isn't a hill I am dying on. I would just tell Dad that it is pretty normal for folks to gossip on the job. Does he tell you that any of this is disturbing to him? Or is it a bit of fun listening to all the gossip? Would be for me.
IF you decide there is something that you SHOULD say then names and details should stay out of it, just that your Dad repeats lots of stuff he hears as gossip as folks are working together with him. That likely he gets it all mixed up and there isn't anything serious, but that perhaps staff should just be forewarned to keep gossip to the break and lunch rooms so that residents don't feel they must "report", often then getting things "wrong" and etc.
Basically I would just leave it be.
I don't get a lot of the laundry stories as I am half a state away. Perhaps the best place to be sometime. I do know my bro loves doing his own laundry as "they use too harsh stuff and things fall apart, get lost, and etc". Gives him something to help occupy time, is good for him, so I love that he still takes that interest. If not, I think, knowing an institution, stuff does end up all over the place.
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Mom's facility does laundry every day which is unusual compared to most facilities and staff knows most residents by name, yet just yesterday I asked the person returning the clean items to mom's room where a certain item was and I received a blank stare

socks, sweaters, tops, pants etc have all disappeared

I find other resident's items in her drawer especially nightgowns
yesterday her favorite missing sweater was in her roomie's closet

the only thing I wash weekly are her pillowcases otherwise I'm constantly buying more

only once has gossip at mom's memory care bothered me, and I let leadership know - it fell on deaf ears - without any apology

if you are truly committed to hear nothing, say nothing, then remind dad that no one likes a gossip when he tells a tale -but frankly, sometimes having a little inside information is useful and unless dad is spreading it around the lunch room to other residents, I'd let it go
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Our friend went to work at the local AL and found out some bad dirt about the help; not using gloves when washing residents, then working with others - ugh! A couple of them are also really lazy; stand around and talk all over the place, and have something going with the (male) asst mgr, which was proven when our friend complained to him and he lost it and yelled and swore at her - she quit on the spot. Now we're wondering if we should report past the mgmt, since my husband, in his professional capacity, has reported infractions to the manager, and even to the out of state owner, who said "That's why I have a manager." I was told that since it's a privately owned facility, they don't have to comply with state rules.... (?). I guess I mentioned this because because you said it fell on deaf ears without any apology, and that triggered me, but DOES anyone have any ideas? IS this something we should deal with - I'm only a couple hours a week paid companion and friend to one of the residents.... I DID tell her daughter, so she would never have to ask why I didn't.
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Countrymouse Jan 2020
The site won't let me in so I can't check, but have a look round the South Dakota Department of Health website and see what it says about NH licensing. I don't believe for a second that privately-owned facilities are exempt from regulation. Nah. Not a chance.
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My mantra is always: keep them safe and keep them healthy. If he is safe and healthy and there is no evidence of abuse.... I'd let it be. Mark all his possessions with his name in hopes that less items will "walk" away. Check your dad's feet to see if they are being kept clean, dry and odorless. If not, talk to the management. Cleaning every part is the job of the staff. Gossip happens in every workplace and most is harmless. If dad is not disturbed about what he hears, he will be ok.
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IMHO, since everything seems to be status quo except this gossip, just monitor it. Could be just simple gossip. If it escalates, THEN speak up.
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Thanks guys! Never thought of contacting OSHA... Dept of Health, too, hmmm? I DID email the governor's office, since they are known to help with issues.
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Have you discussed this with the unit’s supervisor? If so I missed it.

There should be a written complaint process posted somewhere in the facility. It is supposed to be somewhere that everyone can see it for easy reference. Report these incidents you describe to the person or title on the chart. That person is the first level to report adverse situations. If their response doesn’t address a means to fix this problem, go up the management chain.

I used to manage a dialysis center as a DON. There were several times this sort of complaint arose from clients and their families. The remedy was a staff meeting and a good talk with the employees.

OSHA? That agency is for employees to report safety hazards that may cause the employee harm. OSHA protects an employee’s safety. For instance employers must list employee on the job injuries that may be concerns aboug protection from hazardous fumes, employee slips, trips and falls, employee back injuries etc.

In my experience I did the data gathering and then would bring the employee in for a disciplinary session to get their side of the story.

Yes unfortunately staff will talk- also within earshot of residents. About more than their salary!!! I agree it’s not good behavior on the staff’s part. But...Are they hurting anyone? That’s debatable- in fact they can be hurting themselves and possibly lose their jobs.

However, is this really worth a nuclear reaction?

Talk with the unit manager first and give them a chance to rein their staff in. Staff meeting ASAP. I’m not sure it’s time to sound the alarm.
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I’ve found that at both the facilities where my mother has lived, the residents live vicariously thru the staff. Many, if not most , employees gossip about wages, other workers, management etc. on the job and the residents, especially those who had jobs outside of their homes, love to know the dirt, make comments about the dirt and know how every situation “should “ be handled lol. I look at a ALF as a return to jr high. Drama drama drama.
In other words ignore anything not unsafe or unsanitary. As to things disappearing, I lose socks via my own washer , how could it not happen in a commercial setting lol?
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Sure they’re going to talk about personal stuff and gossip but when my mom hears it, it bothers her and thinks about it constantly, that’s why I have a problem with it. She’s already having a difficult time navigating with dementia as it is.
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I have been an advocate of long-term care residents for 24 years. I believe you do have to pick your battles and not be at the DON's (Director of Nursing) with every incident you feel is wrong.

I do believe that the issue you wrote about, the staff's gossip and complaining about the homes hiring policies, raises etc. needs to be addressed. This potentially could be a big issue. If the staff are not happy they need to discuss their concerns privately with the appropriate supervisors, not where residents can hear their complaints. I agree with you that when staff are voicing these concerns in front of the residents it can lead to the residents feeling that they are not as safe/cared for as they should be.
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At my mom's assisted living one of the care givers gossips to ME. She complains about what others have not done and since none of those things she obsesses over have to do with the care of the residents, I just let her rant and do not tell anyone. She complains about the owners. I listen and wonder why she works there if she is so unhappy, but say nothing. She even tells me stories she should not be telling me about the residents. I can keep secrets, so I do. But leaving the call button where it can be reached IS important. Changing socks? Up to your dad maybe. Maybe also, since he understands what they are saying, he could interrupt and let them know he will pass on the information. They will gossip then in a more appropriate place. I ask certain things like watching that my mom starts the process of brushing her teeth instead of them just reminding her and that my mom's room be checked over when it smells like urine. She likes to hide her underwear if she has an accident because it embarrasses her. Now the dentist sees improvement with her teeth and now her room never smells. They know about her habits. I just think reports or suggestions should be made when they are about issues with the care of the residents and you will know when that is. Then do speak up.
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