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My elderly mother recently moved from her home from another state and now lives in an assisted living facility close to me (I have POA). My teenage daughter works at her facility and has been following COVID protocol standards put in place by this facility. The facility has been testing for COVID regularly - they did have several positive cases (cause for concern), but as of today they are COVID free. Recently my mom and daughter received both doses of the COVID vaccine. Before my mom received the vaccine, she wasn't sure if she wanted to get it. I had told her that since she's still able to make decisions of her own, she needed to decide. She got the vaccine and seems to be fine (no adverse side-effects for either her or my daughter).


My sister (not from this state) was wanting to pay all of us a visit within the coming month). My husband (who takes the virus very seriously and has been tested twice to protect himself and our family) would like my sister and her husband to get tested before they come. I had mentioned the possibility to my sister and she was furious and stated "we won't come" if they have to get tested. This breaks my heart. (In the past she hung the phone up on me when I told her I was taking my kids to get their flu shot!).


I'm trying to be diplomatic, but I feel like I'm literally stuck in the middle of an ugly battle that won't end well for either case. I have been trying to err on the side of caution and follow proper protocol when it comes to my mom and family's health. Has anyone else experienced this situation? I'm worried that if we stick to our guns and tell them to please get a test, they won't come. Maybe they won't have an opportunity to see my mom again and will make us feel like it's our fault. On the other hand, if they feel like this virus has been a farce from the beginning (and they aren't taking it seriously), they could spread it to the rest of my family who has not been vaccinated yet. Every time I converse with her she seems angry with the world and they way things are and blames it all on politics. I'm ready to have a breakdown... it's getting to be too much. Any advice is appreciated!

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Doesn't your mom's facility have rules about who can visit and what protocols they need to observe?

This is on the facility, not you.
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MissFixit Feb 2021
The AL facility cannot have visitors yet but we could take my mom out and take her to our house or out to dinner, as things are opening up. They have gradually opened dining areas but still no outside visitors.
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If you want your sister to stay in your home, and feel that she should test negative for the virus in order to stay with you, then insist on it. If that means she doesn't come visit, then so be it.

If she wants to come to your state w/o being tested & w/o getting the 'vaccine', then she can do so, it's not a mandate to be tested or to get the shots. The AL has it's own rules with regard to visits, however, and she will be FORCED to abide by those rules if she wants to visit her mother. She may have to do a window visit, which is what we have to STILL do in order to visit my mother who lives in a Memory Care AL. And yes, she's had the vaccines, but they're still insisting on window visits for now.

Your sister is free to take the virus seriously or dismiss it entirely, that's her prerogative. And it's entirely YOUR prerogative how you choose to live life in YOUR home and who you wish to invite to stay with you inside of your home. When my sister wanted to come visit us several months ago, I said No. Period. She wanted to drive out from NYC with her b/f and my DH was recuperating from open heart surgery & then lung surgery, and I felt like I DID NOT want her and the b/f to be staying at my house, nor did I want them visiting us after staying in a hotel. My house, my rules. Same with my DH's children who were insisting on coming here for a visit in November & December. No. Simple and direct is the best approach.

Your sister can be as angry & belligerent as she'd like; it's her choice.

Good luck!
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MissFixit Feb 2021
Thank you for your post. I appreciate your insight and feedback! And you are spot on- we all choose to respond how we respond. I’m sure she will not be happy if we tell her perhaps another time would be better, but such is life!
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The test is like a snapshot.
It is what is being tested at the time the sample was taken.
If the sample that was taken was done well, great. There may be false negatives.
I recently was tested prior to an outpatient procedure. I was told after the sample was taken to go home and stay home for the next 3 days. I already had a doctor's appointment that I could not reschedule so I did not stay home for the 3 days. I could have picked up COVID during that time.
If your sister and her family all get tested what value is it if they then travel to your home. Or would you ask them to get tested after they come to your state then wait to see you and mom? And there is a lag time between exposure and when and if the test would show anything.
Your best bet is to not worry about testing. Require masks, social distancing and hand washing.
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MissFixit Feb 2021
Totally makes sense what you say and you bring up several good points. However my sister refuses to wear a mask and she and her hubby have made it known they don’t where masks where they live and have caused a scene or two in public.
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There are over 500,000 dead from Covid in the USA. Chances are that plenty of anti-vaxers, anti-testers, anti-maskers etc are among them. Perhaps make your rule to get the vaccine rather than the test – as Grandma says, it’s possible though less likely that sister could have a test and then expose herself after the test and before she arrives. Stick to your guns! You make YOUR rules for YOUR household.
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MissFixit Feb 2021
Thank you!!!
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Hate to say it MissFixit...
Can't fix this one. I would say no to the visit.
Or
Sister can come to your state.
Sister does not get to visit you, your house.
Since you are POA sister does not get to visit mom. At least in person. If she wants to visit from a window, great. but I have the feeling the facility would not permit that if she refused to wear a mask.
No way to be "diplomatic" about this. You are acting in your mom's best interest as well as your family's interest.
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MissFixit Feb 2021
Thank you for your advice! I appreciate it!
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Tested or not, vaccinated or not, each person has a responsibility to behave as though he or she is Covid +. That is the safe course of action until there is much more clarity.

As it is clear that your sister is not prepared to follow the safe course of action - it isn't about her "proving" herself infection-free through a test, it's about the whole attitude - then I cannot see why your husband should be expected to welcome her to his home. She is free to stay nearby, of course. And presumably your mother's ALF will have its own restrictions and procedures in place to allow safe visiting, if not now then soon. So you are in no way preventing your sister from seeing her mother. She can please herself, just not under your roof.
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MissFixit Feb 2021
Agreed. I still highly doubt my sister will still come (and stay in a hotel, for reasons I won't discuss here). But yes, in no way am I discouraging her from seeing my mom if she wishes to come. Thank you!
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Our whole family went through having covid, pretty easily thankfully, after one person was inconsiderate with their choices. I wasn’t happy about it at all. You’re not asking too much for people to be careful, especially with an elderly person involved. And when your sister is a negative drain, spend less time conversing with her. We all need positive people in our lives, not disapproving or rude ones.
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MissFixit Feb 2021
I have found that to be true... connecting with positive people is best for all of us! Thank you for your input!
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Well I have not seen my dad since October 2019, 16 months, because of Covid. Usually I see him a few times a year, he lives in another city. I will not see him at least until he has been vaccinated, which should be this month.

At 92, his days are numbered and there is a real chance I may never see him again. I can live with that. I could not live with the possibility of being the person who infected him.

I really want to bring my grandson, my Dad's first and likely only Great Grandchild, over to see him, but I cannot. My wishes, do not override health authority regulations. My grandson's Great Grandmother on the other side, died without meeting him. Luckily my Mum sees him each time I look after the baby.

You are asking your sister and her family to take reasonable precautions. She is the one being unreasonable and she will bear the burden of her choices.
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There will come a time when your sister won’t see her mom again. It happens with everyone we know. That’s not on you should that be the case between your mom and sister. And how dare your sister get upset with you! She wants to play fast and lose with the health of your family and thinks SHE has a right to be upset. I’m sorry but she sounds like a bully to me. There are some people it’s best to just stay away from if they are that upsetting. I know it’s hard when it’s people we love that we have to protect ourselves from.

Perhaps you might want to take a look at the book Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life by Henry Cloud  and John Townsend
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MissFixit Feb 2021
Thank you for your input and for the resource - always appreciated!!!
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If your mom is of sound mind, visitation should completely be her decision depending on the rules of the facility. Your sister can see your mom without you.

I am severely immuned compromised, my bone marrow is failing. No one has been in my house other than those that live here since the cirus hit. My sister drives 2 1/2 hours one way to sit on my front porch, with both of us wearing a mask and staying 6 feet apart, for a few hours and then drives back home. That's even how we had Christmas.

If your sister wants to see you bad enough, she will follow your rules.
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I think Covid is causing rifts in many situations. I personally am tired of the media coverage given to Covid. I am tired of Dr Fauci. I could live the rest of my life without seeing him on television again.

I follow the guidelines of my state. I wear a mask. I practice social distancing. I don’t shop the same way I used to. I use home delivery, ordering online etc. My husband and son both had Covid earlier.
My husband and I have traveled several times both last year and this year. We always check out the locations before we go. We’re planning a trip in April to Paradise Island in the Bahamas. We’re going with friends who have their own plane. We dine out, go to church and other community activities. I’m not one of the people who make every move based on Covid.

I had my brother and my niece to my house and I placed no restrictions on either of them. My dad had never seen his granddaughter and hadn’t seen my brother in 50 years. I’m glad they came. My dad was so happy. He died shortly after.

This is just my life. Everyone is entitled to their own way of handling the pandemic.
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Frankly, testing is only good for the day you get the test. That wouldn't be good enough for me.

My mom tested negative before she left a rehab hospital, was quarantined as per protocol when she got back to her nursing home the next day, and on the last day of her quarantine 18 days later, she tested positive. It was traced back to the rehab hospital where six other patients all tested positive later, too. She ended up being quarantined another three weeks.

I'd tell your sister she can visit when everyone in your family, including your mom, is vaccinated. Your husband has a right to feel safe in his own home. A vaccine doesn't prevent anyone from passing on the virus, but if you're vaccinated, you'll likely have a minor to an asymptomatic case. You and he need to do what you feel protects YOU, and if your sister isn't interested in getting vaccinated, that's her business.

My husband's family has a few denier types in it, including one brother who couldn't believe we had to cancel my MIL's 85th birthday last August. We finally pointed out that a large number of guests would be in the same age group, and while he (and my MIL) might think they're invincible, the others might not agree. Folks simply stood their ground firmly, and the majority ruled. That scenario has been repeated at Thanksgiving, Christmas, and I'm sure it will be again at Easter. (It gets old.)

Stand your ground.
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MissFixit Mar 2021
Thank you for your input! That’s definitely what we are leaning toward doing in this case!
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To my mind the vaccine, and Covid-19 itself has become so politicized that it is quite hopeless to do anything other than "protect yourself" in so far as you are able. That means get the vaccine when you are able if you are willing to get the vaccine. You are then quite protected from getting covid-19, but more importantly you are VERY protected from getting a case severe enough to require hospitalization and lead to death.
Those who do not wish to get vaccinated? Fine by me. Darwinian, in fact. BUT you won't be coming to visit me unless and until I AM vaccinated (number two for me at 12:30 today, thanks Kaiser!).
I don't want any longer to convince anyone else to do anything. I am capable of protecting myself and will happily do so. So your Sis is mad? "So sorry, darlin; now y'all get out there and have a better day!" It is truly way too difficult to change hearts and minds. Let everyone make his or her decision. If they cannot abide by the taking of a simple test, then that's sad. But the even sadder truth is that a test before getting on a flight says not a whole lot about the single person you meet AFTER that flight coming to your house.
Wishing you good luck. I myself wouldn't think I was missing a whole lot if this Sis was unable to visit to a while.
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Having the vaccine is no guarantee that you won't get COVID. It hasn't been tested long enough to see how effective it will be. My daughter reads everything and even though people with compromised immune systems are recommended to get the vaccine, there is no guarantee their immune system will produce the antibodies.

For me, its my house my rules. Just tell sister that your sorry she is upset but so far you have been able to keep ur family safe and you want to keep it that way. You would love her to see Dad but she would need to stay in a hotel/motel. You could meet somewhere for dinner. You have now given her an option. Its up to her to take it or leave it. Its not all about her. Her decisions concerning the vaccine and masks are her decisions and she has no right pushing them on you.
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Stand your ground and do what you feel is wise. The idiotic politicization of a disease is absolutely ridiculous. Get the best medical advice you can and leave the politicians to rant.
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As others have said, it’s your house, your rules.

Do what you feel is best for your family.

Don’t pay any attention to what others think about it.

They get to set the rules in their houses but not yours.
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Masks, Social Distancing, Covid Vaccine is something of a Person Choice that every individual has to make.

If your mom has already had the shot and wears a mask then let her decide what she's comfortable with.

If it were me, I would see my daughter.

Since your mom lives at a facility, your sister can visit her without seeing any other family members, seeing your sister can be a choice made by each one individually.
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MargaretMcKen Mar 2021
What you do to prevent being infected is perhaps a Personal Choice. What you do to prevent yourself being an infection risk for others is a Choice you are making for the rest of the world. NOT a PERSONAL Choice
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Ask her why she won’t be tested. Hear her out. Then tell her that you are no expert, but you rely on those who are, and you take their advice seriously. And that you have been following the numbers and graphs—pretty convincing that non-compliance causes cases. THEN you can tell her that 1) you are looking out for the health of your immediate family, and 2) you call the rules in your own house, and 3) you are sad that she is not willing to undertake a simple procedure that costs her nothing to see her family.

Psst, you don’t really have to be sad.
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I agree that COVID conversations are hard with everybody believing different things. Let me share some information as an RN. Feel free to share with your family. Hopefully, you can have some family discussions about dealing with COVID together. The focus should be on how to connect safely.

1 - COVID is virus spread through mist/droplets exhaled by infected people. It can be from a cough, a sneeze, or just an exhaled breath.

2 - The majority of people will have a mild infection similar to a cold and get better quickly. Many in this group may not even realize that they have the infection. This group is more likely to spread the disease without proper precautions - face mask, hand washing, social distancing, frequent cleaning of high touch surfaces...

3 - Up to 30% of people will have a severe infection: fever, loss of smell/taste, cough, shortness of breathe, GI symptoms, and serious lack of energy from pneumonia. This group of people are more likely to be hospitalized and may even need respiratory support. It may take months for people in this group to recover. Unfortunately, 3-5% of people will die from this disease.

4 - Vaccines do not prevent infection. Vaccines build up the immune response so an individual is more likely to have a mild infection instead of a severe infection or death. The vaccines that are available can not "infect" a person since there is no live virus. Many people may have a reaction to the vaccine that is consistent with the body developing an immune response: tiredness, slight fever, achiness... OTC NSAIDs have been approved for these symptoms.

5 - Getting COVID tested will only prove that a person does or does not have active infection at the time of testing. Incubation period for COVID is generally 10 days but some people have become contagious in 2 days after exposure. So a person may get COVID tested before a trip, but get infected during travel and become infectious within days of a negative COVID test.

6 - The best way to prevent infection to vulnerable populations is vaccination and following CDC or WHO protocols. Meetings held outdoors tend to decrease the risk a bit further.
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I have a friend who got the first dose and then later tested positive for Covid and now has a blood clot. She now has to wait 90 days for her second dose. Your sister may be pissed but too bad so sad. You set your boundaries and she can set her's. Sadly this means you can’t be together unless you want to meet outdoors somewhere with masks.
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I have this problem with my own family. My patents are in their mid nineties, my mother is in end of life hospice care at home, and my father is frail. The parents are dependent on their children for 24 hour care because they want to stay at home.

I am the only one who wears a mask there. None of my siblings mask up, there or in their own realms. A couple of them are vehemently political about it and deny that COVID is worse than flu. After all, they haven’t had it yet so it must not be that bad. One of them was so combative about the vaccine that the oldest sister kept it a secret that she was getting her shot.

They aren’t reasonable, don’t care about science, and are tired of living with restrictions. You can’t reason with them any more than you can reason with someone who is a brainwashed cult member. So protect yourself. Insisting on seeing test results is not perfect but is perfectly reasonable. Insisting that people wear masks and practice social distancing is perfectly reasonable. I would not allow any unvaccinated person to stay in my house. I wouldn’t go to a restaurant, for sure. I can’t stop people from doing what they want, but I don’t move one inch to help them do unsafe things. If your sister wants to arrange a visit on her own, there’s not much you can do about it except to inform the facility that you expect them to enforce mask wearing. No way do they get to stay in your house, ride in your car, join you for dinner. Stick to your guns.
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my2cents Mar 2021
You hit the nail on the head with comparison to cult. If the past years of political division taught me nothing else, I learned that there is a huge following of cult-type behavior....from some folks who hid their beliefs and nastiness quite well in previous years. There may have been little hints, but it surfaced full force when nastiness toward others became the norm
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Every time this comes up in my family I state that I am following my doctor's direction or my mother's doctor.

Most of our immediate family have been vaccinated except for husband's brother.
We are still wearing masks and staying home.

I have a daughter who chooses to vacation with her family and do socializing in large groups. When she has an outing I isolate from her family for 14 days.

I provide after school care for her children so this is not a small issue.

It does not hurt to be careful. Its very selfish for the visitors not to submit to testing.
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My answer to your sister and family would definitely be no covid test no visit. Regardless of her take on the seriousness of covid she would be putting your household at risk. You need to protect you and your family and keep the visit for another time.
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Let me tell you a story. My mother passed recently. We had a wake. The night of the wake my brother was there but started feeling sick. He didn't come to the church service or cemetery. Two days later he tested positive to the virus. I had to notify everyone. In the ensuing days, a number of people (in his family, wife, kids and grandkids) have tested positive. It's still going on. The moral of the story: Covid-19 is real and it spreads

Your sister may not agree, but she is being selfish in refusing to take a simple test. I will say testing before she comes isn't enough. She would need to test again when she arrives. The choice not to come is her choice, not yours. Do what's best for you and your family and don't compromise your own choice to keep your family safe.
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NeedHelpWithMom Mar 2021
So sorry for your loss. Keep sharing your important story. Covid is real. I’ve lost a few friends to it.

I have family members still dealing with it. One cousin is doing better but still can’t smell or taste food.

I have a niece who normally has tons of energy is now tired all of the time.

My other cousin is seeing a pulmonologist now and I am hoping he will feel better soon.

I agree that people should not object to being tested.

I appreciate your posting. Stay safe.
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I am just repeating what others have said, but if she were to REFUSE to come see her mother because of her personal beliefs and choices when you have laid out reasonable (though possibly expensive) boundaries, then she will be the person responsible for not seeing her mother. Please do not let others guilt you for their own choices. This really triggers me because I see it so much. ("You made me ...")
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If your husband is so scared he should get the vaccine too and stay in his room when they come over. They’re not there to visit him anyway! If he’s not in the age group then have him get the Pneumonia vaccine. Covid causes pneumonia thus that is what many people are dying from, Pneumonia not Covid! If you and mom are vaccinated there isn’t an issue. Pneumonia vaccine is already recommended for people 65+ but anyone can get it. I got mine and I’m 47. I’m not scared of covid but pneumonia will do you in especially if you have underlining conditions. If your family is not showing signs of diarrhea, cough, sneeze, temp, taste, smell they should be allowed to visit. I doubt they would be coming if they had any symptoms anyway that would be very inconsiderate of them. Have them stay in a hotel if that makes you more comfortable. Keep hand sanitizer handy in their presence and use it and you’ll all be fine. If your going to the grocery store you can be around your family.
Also my personal experience, my gramma 99 got covid didn’t even go to the hospital, she recovered fine but she had had her pneumonia vaccine. My uncle lives with her from who she got covid from. He almost died because pneumonia developed, it developed because he didn’t have the pneumonia vaccine. Just really sad to know how many people would be living today had they all got the pneumonia vaccine! I so wish the scientists were pushing this so more lives could really be saved rather than freedoms taken away. So all reading this please take this advice seriously. Get the pneumonia vaccine if you’re under the age group to get the covid vaccine and if you have your reservations about the covid vaccine this is a great alternative to potentially save your life!
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my2cents Mar 2021
If I ask someone to take a test before coming to see my mom, that will be the final word on that. If they want to see her in her home, they abide by this rule. In addition, if you plan to travel to someone else's home, take more precaution that usual - quarantine prior to visit if you can - wear mask anytime you are out and go the extra mile. I attended a Christmas event and not ONE person in the room had any kind of symptom, ailment, nothing. Late that night someone felt bad, the next day confirmed it.

Stay home and do whatever the heck you want, but going into someone else's home -that's different. If homeowners family wants a test, take it, wear a mask in their house, or go get a hotel room but do not blame not getting to see your mom at the end of her life on anyone else.
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Your family takes the risk seriously and your sister doesn't. You probably have the same political differences. You can't change either. Stick to your guns on the testing issue for your own peace of mind. If you go along with her selfish behavior and you/hubby your family catches covid from her visit, trust me, you are going to have serious regrets.

It is your sister's decision to see her mom. I would bet that if she decides to go to the facility where mom is, she's going to end up getting a rapid test. They don't just let people off the street and non-maskers enter those facilities. Your sister may not agree with that decision either, but then she needs to realize her freedom to choose ends at my freedom to choose. If she can't take a test to offer protection for your health, and uses that excuse to not see mom - her decision to live with.

All you can say is you/your family not willing to take a risk. --Has she even given a reason to refuse a test???? I mean if she got the flu really bad and went to a dr, he would probably test her for flu in order to determine what medicine to give. You might also remind her of all the vaccines she took as a child - might have kept her from having smallpox, measles, etc. - Stick to your guns.
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We take covid pretty seriously because of my FIL. We disinfect groceries, my husband wears a mask at work and showers in a different bathroom when he comes home. I don’t go anywhere. DH coaches a baseball team too and he makes them distance and takes temps before practices. They have to disinfect dugouts and stands before every game even!

Anyway, long story short, DH’s brother, wife and kids who haven’t seen my FIL in a year decided to “spring” a last minute visit on us. With all that we have been doing to stay safe, we weren’t about to blow it on one visit. We asked them to have a temp check, wear masks and visit outside. If they wanted to stay overnight, we have a camper they could use.

We did not feel ok with not letting them visit or requiring a test (they are really not that accurate anyway) but we did find a happy medium to keep everyone safe.
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Imho, the Novel Coronavrus should be taken seriously.
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My 2 cents- Your house, your rules. Your sister and hubby have a right to live and believe as they like. You have the same right. As POA you are responsible for keeping your mom as safe as she would have kept herself. Let sister go maskless and vaccine-less at her house. The end.
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