I’m in the process of grieving, documenting and getting my thoughts in order but I’m pretty sure I have a valid and serious complaint and likely a lawsuit against the place my mom was at.
I don’t want money - I want someone to confirm she was declining and the care she received was completely negligent and caused her death. For gods sake- she died last week and the place has not even called to give condolences.
My best friend is a lawyer so I’m talking to her and have not spoken to the place at all but I do want all her medical records from her stay there. Can I ask for them or have my lawyer?
Also, I know no legal advice but can anyone share experiences like this?
My mom dying was not a total shock- it was going to happen - my issue is with the timeframe, the events leading up to her death and sh*tty care she received the last 4 weeks of her life that has me totally heartbroken and enraged.
"... My my mother is 84 and has been ‘dying’ for 5 years. She never been in great health and has never taken great care of herself and when she went into heart failure and had quadruple bypass 5 years ago I was certain this ‘was it’. I spent 2 months visiting her in the hospital almost every day, 4 months visiting her in rehab 3-5 days a week because I could not imagine her recovering and I wanted to have that time with her at ‘the end’.
Well, she recovered, moved into assisted living and she still chugging along 5 years later with end stage copd and CHF on O2 24/7 and so may trips to the hospital I lost track. Pulmonologist says there is literally nothing else he can give her - she is on every steroid and breathing treatment available (monthly close before insurance is over $2000 - but her phenomenal insurance pays all!) but she gets a respirating infection, they pump her full of more meds and she bounces back. Not to the level as before but the decline is painfully slow.
i love my mother and will be devastated when she goes but she’s now cranky and demanding and unable to have a true conversation with as she’s living 40 years in the past most days so I kind of feel like I’ve already ‘lost’ my mom.
all this to say - I get it. I have a husband, 3 children, a stressful corporate job and my own life and I’m increasing numb to the health scares and literally wait to get ‘the call’."
So, your mom had end stage COPD more than a year ago and had treatment after treatment. It sounds like her doctors and the facility were doing a pretty great job of keeping her alive, although she had little quality of life due to dementia.
I am sorry for your loss; as you predicted, you are devestated by her death. I'm not sure what you hope to gain by being enraged at the facility.
How were you informed if your mom's death? Did the facility call you? Was she on Hospice?
We were present at my moms death (pre COVID) and the nurse who was closest to my mom cried with us, but no one formally offered condolences. I don't think that that's done.
Be comforted by your good memoroes of your mom and grieve your loss in peace.
It came down to her wanting to blame someone (understandable!), anger, and grief. It took a few weeks but she accepted it was no one’s fault and it was just her time.
Were I you, and I wasn't looking for a payday from a lawsuit, but rather some acknowledgement and apology, I would write down all the pertinent facts (much like you did here) in a letter and send copies to your local state representative. I would also CC the director of the facility, the owner of the facility, the State Ombudsman and perhaps your local news media.
There was recently a facility near me that changed owners from a not-for-profit to a for profit corporation, and the resident's families found the once-excellent care take a serious downward turn. Once the media got hold of the story, the local state representative stepped in. Then the state began to oversee the operations. As far as I know there were no lawsuits brought, the family members just wanted their LO's cared for.
I'm so sorry that you went through the uncertainty, lack of responsivenss from the facility and sadness at your lack of efficacy at the end of your mom's life.
Was this a facility that was very affected by COVID? Not an excuse, but possible a reason that, if the were previously responsive and became less so.
Im going to make an assumption here. It is based on my experience with my mom in a NH for 4 1/2 years.
The facility actually gave her amazingly good care. But they were totally lousy at communicating with us.
If you will be reassured by seeing the care notes that your mom was being cared for, go ahead and requeat them.
Broken phones (did you bring a replacement for her?) and phone calls you didn't receive from the doctor (did you call him or just leave messages with the NH?) don't equate to leading to her death.
I'm also confused -- you said you connected with hospice the morning she died, yet you are enraged she died?
My mother was in a nursing home for seven months and my dad had been on their board of directors for 10 years. The CEO spoke at his funeral. I ended up moving her to a MC closer to me, and never have heard one word from them since, except for pitches for money. That's OK, though, because they're in the business of people coming and going all the time. I understand my mother was a customer, not a family member, and I'm not special to them either. I think you're expecting a lot to want condolences from them. They need to keep a certain distance emotionally, too.
I suggest you get the book "Healing After Loss," by Martha Hickman. You read just one page a day so it isn't overwhelming and hard to digest, and I've known many people who found it extremely helpful. A friend whose wife was killed in a car accident found it so helpful he bought a case of the books and asked that his church give one to each family they performed funerals for.
I didn’t expect them to bring a miracle or fix her - I expected them to tell me she was declining and and the end may be coming and allow a visit or 2 or let me bring in my kids or have my brother make arrangements to travel.
She was sent there after a week in the hospital with pneumonia. The plan was for her to continue to recover and go back to her assisted living place like she has done 3 times before. for the first 2-3 weeks she was making gains - very slow and she was stubborn but we all assumed she would be able to go back to assisted living in a month or so. The first care plan meeting was all about how to get back to assisted living. Then something changed and she started to decline and I wanted to understand what was going on.
i want some validation that I KNEW my mom was not well and was struggling and they ignored it.
about the phone - if I thought for one second a new phone would have fixed the issue I would have brought one in that day. I live 2 miles from the place was was constantly dropping of things (half of which she says she never got and I didn’t believe her but now I’m thinking she was right) I was told they was not possible. After her roommate was discharged I asked that she be given that phone or move her to the other side of the room or even to another room. They said she should use the other phone but could not move her to that side. A few times she did have the other phone but the aids kept putting it back in there other side of the room and she was immobile and not able to get it. I think she got confused which phone was working.
I was working on setting up a new iPhone for her but without being able to see her there is no way I could teach her when do do:(
You do have a right to the records; ask your attorney friend to order them if you like, but be aware that the NH may "get its back up" and believe that you are intending to sue, and they won't be cooperative with you from then on, including answering any questions you may have. You can order them yourself; be prepared to pay several hundred dollars for the records.
These are also questions you would need to ask yourself:
1. How did any of the identified actions contribute to your mother's death, given that she already was in hospice? How would your requests have changed the outcome, or even Mom's condition before her death?
2. How does this facility's actions compare with those of other nursing homes? At one time, an element of medical malpractice (medmal) suits was proving that treatment was not consistent with the standard of care (a major issue) in that particular state. I haven't followed medmal laws since I retired, so I don't know if this is still a standard.
3. When I worked in medmal law firms years ago, the best firms hired a doctor in a similar practice area (which would be hospice in this case) to review all the medical records, and opine on whether or not standards of care were met for your mother's condition, i.e., a hospice patient, with defined conditions leaving to death and consistent with the norm for that area.
4. Ask your attorney friend to do some legal research on the standards for filing and sustaining a medmal action in your area.
5. You stated that you don't want money; you want admissions of decline and negligent care. Suits generally ask for monetary compensation; I don't recall any that asked for admissions or confessions. I think filing a suit for this reason wouldn't be effective; the NH attorneys would probably file a Motion to Dismiss early on, and may well ask you to pay their attorney fees.
In addition, what compensation or what do you want besides an admission? Given the overwhelmingly challenging conditions at NHs these days, they're lucky they still have uninfected staff to care for patients.
6. I won't deny that you experienced frustration; but you might get farther by asking an Ombudsperson to become involved, and contact Medicare (or Medicaid if it was involved) and complain to them. Medicare does do inspections, and might address some of your complaints generally.
7. Caring for terminal parents in this current situation can so easily be complicated by facilities with inadequate staff, or staff that become ill, or frustrated b/c they too are overworked and interact daily with high risk people. It's challenging for everyone.
8. A totally alternate approach, which I would take, is to write a letter thanking them for what they did DO, and politely make recommendations that could be adopted in the future.
The old saying, which I can't remember now, is that being complimentary and helpful gets more results than presenting with outrage and anger, even if it is justified. I think the saying is something about catching more flies with honey than with vinegar.
I hope your attorney friend helps guide you though this challenging time. And I hope that you're eventually able to reach peace within yourself.
I know there are no amount of words that could comfort you right now due to what has happened. It is truly heartbreaking. I feel bad for you and I feel awful that your mom spent her last moments in that manner. I am so, so sorry this has happened to you and it is so appalling to me that the facility never called you. Unfortunately, as I've said on other threads, the hardest thing for me to wrap my mind around is these places are BUSINESSES first and foremost. I do understand because I almost experienced the same thing right in the midst of the pandemic back in April.
My mom is 95 with Alzheimer's. She was perfectly mobile, able to dress and feed herself. I saw her on her birthday, February 14th, one more time on the 28th and then the lockdown on March 13th went into effect. I thought to myself "this is not good - I won't have any idea what is going on or not going on in there." She did not have a window where I could see her for myself and know if something wasn't right. My husband bought her an iPad which was difficult for her to use but, it did help for awhile. Unfortunately, it didn't help when we would need it the most - when she was being neglected and nearly died. We received one frantic call late in the evening - no one said anything and we ended up hanging up. They called back a short time later and the actual Administrator said my mom was weak. My husband had to tell her to give her one of the protein shakes I bring her. Nothing more was said. Five days later, I get a call from an outside mobile NP that my mom was severely dehydrated and had COVID - she asked me point blank what do I want to do? Have her taken to ER or keep her at the facility. She also said my mom was going to die from the dehydration before the COVID would take her. I was not only in shock but, livid as well. I totally understand.
I'm glad your best friend is a lawyer so you know what you'd be up against. Even if you did request the medical documentation from the facility itself, it will only be as good as what they actually documented. I did not file a lawsuit for negligence even though I had a lot of correspondence and notes of conversations. I felt like I wouldn't be able to handle the stress of it, we didn't have the money for the legal fees and I just felt it was a company against an individual - their word against my word type of thing. If my mom were to have died, I wouldn't have been able to handle a lawsuit while in the midst of grieving and handling all the other things that come with losing someone.
Although my mother survived, she's never been the same. I moved her to a new facility into their memory care unit but, she can't walk or dress herself anymore, she's lost 20+ pounds, wasn't eating or drinking much so I brought hospice on.
Once the facility allowed moving companies in and I retrieved all her stuff, that's when I sent an email to both the Regional Director in another state and a copy to the Administrator at the facility and I said everything I had wanted to say since April. I received a reply only from the Director five days later. I presume they were getting all their legal counsel in place before she replied. She asked if I would talk to her over the phone and I agreed. Also, she asked if I wanted to include the facility Administrator and I declined mainly because I've had many conversations with her since my mom moved there in 2015. I too was angry that the actual facility never apologized or take any accountability.
I did have the conversation with the Director and left it at that. I wanted them to know that they didn't pull a fast one on me if I were to have stayed silent. I had to do it on my mom's behalf. I contacted an Ombudsman for further advice. She said if I wasn't going to file a lawsuit, I should at least file a complaint with our state's Department of Health. I will be doing that in the near future.
You will be in my thoughts and prayers as you begin the grieving process.
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