My wife & I bought my 92 y/o Dad's house with the stipulation he could live with us as long as he wants, and that he was not to use his power tools in the house as my wife has problems breathing when saw dust in air. About 4 yrs ago, he lost balance & fell into the table saw and almost cut his fingers off. We came home 1 day after running errands & he was using the saw & planer, putting dust in air. Told him to stop, he refused. Wife said she would cut the cord. He threatened to kill her. He always carries a 357 revolver everywhere. Luckily, he had left it on the saw table when the confrontation began & I took it & hid it. I removed all guns from the house. For 2 weeks, he keeps asking for it back. He apologized & said he'd never hurt my wife, but I don't trust him.
"I removed all the guns from the house" says our OP, drbob. Drbod, about how many were there, if you can recall?
I'm afraid this one falls under my "you-can't-make-this-up------or-CAN-you?" radar.
I mean honestly, did you read your post before posting it?
Q2. Did Dad ASK you to?
Q3. Did Dad concent?
You & wife are now the property owners - therefore set the house rules ie
Rule 1. No powertools inside. Rule 2. No guns in the house.
Seems to me no-one is clear on the new boundaries.
I am left wondering if Dad did not agree or understand this new house arrangement. If not.. it should not have been done. If Dad is angry about all this he may hurt you both. He doesn't need a gun, any tool can be a weapon.
Get them out of the house and keep them out. If you have to ask, you should know what the answer is.
In this case, I would be uncomfortable disarming an elder who is being abused in his home by an "I will destroy your property" DIL without a hell of a lot more information. I think too many of you are identifying with the daughter and seeing her behavior as "normal" but look again. She's arguing with a senior like she's a 12 year old. She may be the one with cognitive decline and/or unresolved emotional problems that make her a danger to the senior. Just how much abuse is acceptable to you?
I agree completely this couple should not share living quarters with this senior. This may mean moving out of the house or using the money from the sale (IF the senior agrees) to move to different housing, maybe a senior apartment or an AL.
Maybe I also have experience with multiple older relatives who lived alone and didn't need much help until 96 or so. My cousin started mowing his grandmother's yard and tilling her garden when she was 92. She died at 99 (as did two of her sisters) still living alone, although her granddaughters did much of her housework and visited her daily for the last year of her life. One of the sisters had her daughters rotate staying the night with her, but still minimal help required and still mentally sharp. Just because someone is old doesn't mean they deserve to be treated as second class citizens and just absorb whatever abuse some younger person want to put on them. In all these cases the families settled the home ownership after the death (by will usually) so there was little conflict over who the home belonged to.
Maybe there should have been younger people looking after those 92 and 89 year olds before they became murder and rape victims. Their families who are living with guilt from disarming their seniors didn't have enough sense between them to figure out a safer living situation than these people living alone? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure as they say.
People so often make the mistake in thinking if there's a gun that they will respond like a secret service agent or an Army Ranger. They don't.
The crime usually ends up happening anyway and the person with the gun ends up killing someone they love by accident.
Sorry, but elderly people alone who are struggling in coping with ADL's (maintaining personal hygiene, keeping their homes clean and habitable, getting adequate nutrition, keeping up on paying the bills, etc...) really should never have access to a gun. Or a set of car keys for that matter.
See in my state, you don't get to be a petty criminal without potentially severe consequences.
I think the point being missed is that this 92 year old NEVER pointed the gun, in fact, he wasn't even in possession of the firearm when he said that he would kill her if she cut his power cords. It wasn't a struggle between the son and dad, the son just went over and picked the gun up. Doesn't sound like a threat of gun violence, IMO.
Sounds like a wife that threatened and bullied a 92 year old and he stood up for himself.
I think we forget there are 90 year olds that aren't demented and out of control. There are some that are just living in an old body that can't do everything as fast as it use to but, their faculties are completely intact.
This whole post sounds like a woman that is insistent about taking away this man's liberties.
Oh and nothing indicates that they are caregivers for him, only mention of any issues are their own.
So I think we are going to have to respectfully agree to disagree. I hope this doesn't mean you think badly of me, as I don't think badly of you over this disagreement.
And I am going to follow Barb's thoughtful advice and be done on commenting, because I don't want to be part of this thread devolving into rancor.
He sounds mentally deficient, and that, combined with firearms and power tools--holy cow, the answer is right in your face.
I'm amazed that at 92 he can lift a saw and use a planer.
Read my post more carefully. I did not mention family members being killed by accident. The wording I used was 'people they love' and that can mean anyone from a friend to a neighbor.
Your response is the total nonsense, not mine.
Yes, a person who cannot manage the most basic functions like personal hygiene, adequate nutrition, housekeeping, and paying bills surely cannot manage the responsibility of safely having a firearm in their possession. A 92-year-old who threatened to kill his DIL REALLY can't safely manage one.
As far as age is concerned, it's a factor. I know some very mature and responsible five-year-olds. Really good kids. I'm still not going to let them use the lawnmower or drive my car. A 92-year-old doesn't need a gun.
I still say it is straight up nonsense to say that anyone is being inadvertently shot. Most gun violence is intentional and it is not seniors or gun owners that are getting robbed and shoot an innocent person.
You also think verbally and mentally abusing seniors is a-ok, as you have stated in many of your posts. So, of course you would be on the side of depriving seniors of there rights.
The old man should have been using the power tools outside or in an outbuilding, but not in the house since the dust affects DIL’s health. She had good reason for wanting to cut the cord.
The gun carrying is an issue no matter where the family is. The 92 year old may be spry and capable, but there aren’t outlaws hanging out behind every bush nor are there vermin ready to kill the chickens coming around the corner all the time. Think Saturday morning cartoons. The guns belong in a gun safe locked away, particularly after he threatened to kill her. He forgot he was killing her by using his power tools in the house by aggravating her health condition. This should have been discussed, but the old guy would have said that he wouldn’t give up his gun. Now that it isn’t available anymore, the discussion can proceed to whether he should go to assisted living or remain and cooperate with the house rules. The house isn’t his anymore. It is his son’s and he put his DIL’s health on the line as well as his own with the power tools.
The third issue is the house. The son and DIL own it. The agreement was that son and DIL would buy it if father didn’t use power tools in the house to cause dust. The first event would should lead to certain results - removal of power tools or a workshop setup in an outbuilding. The workshop is unlikely. Once the power tools are removed and out of sight like the gun(s), father will be in a right pickle. Some other form of activity will need to be found to occupy his time.
No. You should not give your 91 yr old father who threatened to shoot your wife his gun back. You should also remove the power tools and anything else he could injure himself or others with. Sounds like pop may be having some cognitive issues.....
People who are safe with guns, don't threatening people with them. Not once, not ever.
You cant come back from dead, or I didnt think he would really KILL HER. Paranoid, gun, and threatening people won't fair well for you in a court of law. Who do you think they will prosecute? Not just him. YOU! He'll die quickly, but you'll be in jail for decades.
Honest officer, I didn't think he would murder my wife after threatening to kill her THE FIRST TIME, or shoot me because he didn't get his way. I took the gun, but then gave it back, because I have no common sense. Now she's dead and I'm mortally wounded because he had another tantrum.
I wouldn't even give him an empty gun back, because he could still get more bullets, or has hidden bullets around the house. And people do hide them and more guns.
Not worth the risk.