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I have already posted a previous question on here regarding my neighbour. The situation has declined; I have had to put my bed in my living-room and have been forced to sleep there for the last year and seven months due to the noise my neighbour makes all night long, dragging furniture across the floor, emptying wardrobes, internal doors constantly being slammed, and running the water in the bathroom repeatedly, and going out into the garden and watering the plants at 3am regardless of the temperature or the weather. Her behaviour is manic and frantic, and then she sleeps all day. Her son moved in once I got in touch with the authority, but he is a prolific cannabis user and just goes along with the dementia, so he is up all night and sleeps all day to. They only use the bedroom which is on the adjoining wall, to both live and sleep in, meaning the noise is on the wall all night long, I gather she has hoarded herself out of the rest of the property. I was expecting social services to have attended, but then the lockdown came in, and since then my Landlord has had no luck getting social services to attend. They ended up shutting the case after talking to the family, and since then the family have brought more of the hoard back into the property. My partner and I have also been threatened by the family to stop going to the authorities or they will harm us, I reported it to the police. The family have also taken photos of our cars, which has also been reported to the police. Now we can't park our cars near our home for fear they will be vandalised. The elderly neighbour has also accused me of stealing from her garden and threatened to stab and kill me, for which I telephoned the police again. She has previously threatened to kill another neighbour, and she has chased her own family members with knives. She has also called me a Dumba** B*tch, a whore, a hoe, and a C word. The family appear to be hiding the extent of her dementia from social services and I don't know why? She has been making accusations of theft towards most of the neighbours and her own family for years, her husband left several years ago because he couldn't put up with her dementia and hoarding. Most of the family do not work and smoke cannabis, they also supply it to their elderly grandmother which cannot be helping her paranoia. This has become more than just a neglected neighbour with dementia and hoarding, as the family are obviously refusing help for their mother, and as such the situation is not changing. After over 2 and a half years of sleepless nights and stress I don't know if to just move? The Landlord is only forwarded so much power, and unless social services intervenes then they can only treat it as an antisocial/noise issue, and serve warnings for the state of the property. The courts are not evicting people during the coronavirus. My own grandmother had dementia as did my partners father, and neither affected their neighbours because we looked after them, it is a difficult disease to deal with, and without support could drive you mad. The only thing that is keeping me here is that I love my home, and I have spent a lot of money on it, but if you are afraid, exhausted and cannot live in it for purpose then what's the point?

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Rose, I’ve probably said this before, but it’s worth repeating. Try getting some good quality, memory foam, industrial earplugs, and wear them at night – at least put them in if noise starts.

I had some really nice neighbors upstairs from my family flat in town, who unfortunately got up at 4am for shift work a couple of days a week. Hard concrete floors, my plasterboard ceilings straight under the uncarpeted concrete floor above- I heard every step, every thing they dropped, even toilet use. I solved it with earplugs, so they might help you too. Decent sleep helps a lot.
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Rose, the only other thing I can think of is public embarrassment, by anonymously sending photos, recordings, and/or calling local newscasters.   But this could start an avalanche of dangerous attacks and hostility toward you.

If you do move, I would seriously consider reparations against the landlord, such as demanding that he pay for the move (someone may have mentioned this earlier), agreement to cancel the lease, and refund of any deposit as well as monthly balance  of rent.

And if you do move, discuss with the new landlord high levels of privacy, no recording of a new lease, etc. to ensure that the problem people don't come after you.

BTW, does your unit have any security monitoring?   Video cameras of people approaching the unit, something like that?
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This is an old post; I wasn't able to find any new posts, so I'm not sure why it's been brought forward.

ETA:  I've just discovered that Rose is updating the thread, but it doesn't seem as though there's been any positive change.

Rose, I've had another thought.  Is the landlord the actual property owner of record?    If not, you could contact the property owner directly, by using the local county recorder's office, or Treasurer's Office, to identify him or her.    Be careful of Treasurer's Office records though, as someone other than the title holder might be paying the taxes, if management has been contracted to a company (of which the landlord is a member, owner, shareholder, etc.).

I ran into this when a house abandoned was left unattended, grass overgrown, snow not cleared, etc.    Treas. Office records showed a particular company was responsible for the taxes, so I traced it down, found it was just a company providing limited services for another company.  Traced that down but no one would return my call.   (The property was left abandoned for 6 years after the owner died.)
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Rose21 Dec 2020
Yes, the Landlord owns the property.  But it was a way of thinking outside the box, thank you
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This is too dangerous. Get out ASAP. On the way out call Adult Protective Services because the family is endangering the neighbor who is legitimately ill. The reason I say to call on the way out, is that I do not want the family to harm you by reporting it right now. They sound that crazy.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
Adult protective services know, it is a safeguarding issue, but the son often refuses access to them, or lies and tells them she is out.  As of yet, the authorities have not tackled this together.
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i once had an annoying neighbor who moved in above me. She was not as crazy as your neighbor but did appear to have a drinking problem. cleaning the rugs at 3 am, moving stuff around, banging things, walking back and forth, etc. most of the night. There wasn't anything I could really do at the time unless I took her to court and I didn't want to do that. One morning I was going to work later that day so I was home at 10 am when a fire broke out in her apartment. Very lucky that I was home and I called the fire department although I didn't smell any smoke because the smoke was going up above her apartment and I was below. the fire department arrived quickly as I as hanging up the phone. I left the building and by that time the fire was raging and I could see it as it burned through 4 apartments. I only got water damage from the water pumped on to the fire but I was lucky. Some people lost everything and has no place to live.
Get out of there while you can and before you have a fire that burns everything you own. It is not worth the aggravation and the loss of sleep. The stress is bad for you. You can make a new home elsewhere.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
There has already been a fire here before I moved in, she'd set light to a load of stuff in the back garden and had forgotten about it, when the fire brigade turned up they couldn't get in due to the hoarding, they had to climb over a neighbours fence, it had got out of control and caught fire to a nearby tree, it took a while to put out.  This is a big fear of mine, as she is often up cooking at night, and I've had to telephone the family before now due to black smoke coming out of the window, and no fire alarm sounding it is a disaster waiting to happen.
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Mjustice


:)
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Landlord says this is a rental. As beautiful and wonderful as it might be, the blight next door (attached even!) would make it ugly for me. The people who built across from my previous house were a pain, sticking their nose into my business, but I was able to ignore them and laugh at some of their stupidity. There was no vandalism, no threats, etc. Just very stupid people. I did later end up selling (bought another place first), but it wasn't them that drove me out.

IF I were in your situation, I would NOT stay as long as you have. A book can have a lovely cover, but if it is full of blank pages, or worse, pornography, would you keep it? Your situation is even worse than that. Noise, threats, vermin with no recourse!

You've tried most avenues to try to put a stop to this, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Clearly the family isn't concerned, so they are not going to do anything. The landlord could try more, but even without virus and moratoriums on evictions, the eviction process alone is expensive and very time consuming. Even worse is how the "system" deals with people who have cognitive declines or other issues - they tend to try to keep people as "independent" as possible, so even if social services determines she's at risk, so long as "family" is living with her, they will likely not intervene much.

I would find another place. There are other lovely places that you can call home! Hard as it may be to give up what you like, giving up what you don't like will be so much better! Having your BR in the LR, you can't even entertain (not that we should be right now.) You've stuck it out for a long time now, and no one else seems concerned (family, police, social services.) If this person has dementia, it could be years before it reaches a point that she would be taken to a facility. If you're willing to put up with all that for many years, stay. If not, you should be looking (probably should have been when you found these "responsible parties" wouldn't or couldn't do anything.)

NOTE: Maybe when you do get to the moving stage, you can make sure it's as noisy as possible during the day! Play the loudest most obnoxious music you can! Then again, who knows what they might resort to... At the very least, I wouldn't make any effort to be quiet for them while they sleep during the day.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
What you have said is absolutely spot on, you're right the family don't want the responsibility, that is clear, and there argument is that they want her to keep her independence, even if that means keeping me awake at night, and being a danger to herself and others, they also don't want her in their home keeping them awake at night.  

And again, people with mental health issues do have rights, as a hoarder there will be certain leniency, which is why she needs proper assessment for her dementia as this is the only thing that will override her rights.  I believe she is way past being classed as having a capacity, since she is delusional, and aggressive, but unless social services goes in, then this could go on and on, that's my fear, because I've had enough already. 

Disgustedtoo, no noise wakes her up in the day, and that is because the drugs she should be taking at night to sleep, she is taking in the morning when she goes to bed.

Thank you ever so much for your response.
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Mjustice98

I understand your viewpoint.

However, I believe a lot of times in our life, "we have to stand still." Most of what we face, is really just a battle of the enemy of our soul.

We will face many situations that are not pleasing but we can't run from it.

I could give you a long list of things that go on with our neighbors.
Damaging our home, vehicles and garage. The list goes on and on.

Do we pack up and move? Nope.

We stand still.
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Mjustice98 Nov 2020
You know best about your situation, you’ll make the right decision for you :)
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If you own your home you should be at the police department, city hall and the county health department daily. The squekky wheel gets the grease with these departments.

Go to city council meetings

You should be working with your other neighbors in unison with these city agencies.

Keep good records of your activities with the city people IE date time, who you met with, who came to the house. track their comitments make sure they are kept.

Use email to keep a clear papertrail of communication

Contact the media find the local TV consumer helper.

You will not be able to easily sell your home with this right next door and or you wont get a reasonable value.

If your a renter.. after 2 years Yes it is time to move out
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Rose21 Dec 2020
Thanks lacyisland, I have a long paper trail, I've been keeping diaries since June 2019, I've kept text messages between myself and the family, recorded conversations and phone calls, I have untold emails between myself and may of the services.  I don't own the property, I think it's much harder for home owners with this type of thing, as you said bad neighbours go on the register and make it harder to sell your property.
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I could not stand to live like that. Threatened to kill you and the police did nothing about the neighbor? I would advice moving the heck out of that neighborhood and run don't walk!! The woman should be committed .
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NeedHelpWithMom Nov 2020
Exactly! What more needs to be said? You covered it all, EB.
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Years ago, a local hoarder house finally burnt down.

Local newspaper reported that neighbours had advised this house to Police & Council many many times & they were very angry not enough was done.

The neighbours had iinstalled their own fire alarms & kept the vegetation on their fence lines trimmed. Paid for regular pest extermination too. All they could do.

The house burned down completely but luckily the fire fighters saved the neighbouring houses.

When interviewed about what he would do, where he would go, Mr Hoarder said he had been offered public housing or a nursing home room (can't remember now) & was happy about that. When asked if he was sad about losing all his stuff - no! He was happy it was gone! Didn't know how to get rid of it... the fire was a blessing.

I heard that one neighbour said he should have lit the match himself years ago to save the whole street years of anguish...

I wouldn't advice arson! I'd move if I could afford to.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
Yes, I've said to the Landlord and social services, I hope this isn't one of those news stories you read about in the paper, where people end up getting hurt, or some incident occurs which could of been prevented and all they say is "Moving forward we will learn form this."
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Personally if no one is doing anything (and maybe they can't because nothing really has been done to "harm" someone)......I would MOVE...........its not worth the stress of worrying whether someone is going to hurt you and/or do something to your vehicle.  I know it shouldn't be that way, but who wants to stay awake worrying whether they are going to do something............MOVE when they are sleeping.  good luck in your situation.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
Yes, this is what normally happens, nothing is done until someone is harmed, and then it's to late.
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So what happens if your neighbor sets fire to the house? There are lots of homes out there. What is more important your your health or a building?
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NeedHelpWithMom Nov 2020
Not to mention peace of mind! Health and peace of mind is a win/win in my book.
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I posted earlier but want to add a few additional thoughts. I think if I were in your shoes I would look ahead and no longer dwell on how rotten your present situation is.

I seriously doubt that you would miss anything about your current living arrangement.

In fact, you will most likely feel relieved that you left and wonder what took you so long to leave.

Start packing! Enjoy your new place! Look at this as moving towards a better life instead of leaving your home behind.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
I would miss my other neighbours here, who have been really lovely.  And you are right, maybe I should start packing for the inevitable, maybe that would make me feel better, I can't move just yet due to the covid restrictions in my area, so I'm stuck for the time being.
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I don't get it.

If I love my home and have spent a lot of money on it, how am I going to let someone else run me away?

It's not happening.

She is the problem. Not me.

She's got to go. Not me.

litterally
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Isthisrealyreal Nov 2020
I think that you can only take that kind of stand when you own and they are renters.

Both being renters changes the dynamics of a dispute like this.
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Imho, you should relocate yourself and it is IMPERATIVE that you do so for your own safety.
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How can you profess to 'love your home' when you're living in these conditions? Being threatened, calling the police over and over again, being called foul names...........just re-read your post again and then ask yourself how you can possibly even LIKE one single thing about your home?

Then get out, move............remove yourself from this place as soon as humanly possible. It's a no brainer in my book. I'd have moved out after a month or two of this kind of chaos. How have you lasted years????

Good luck!
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Rose21 Dec 2020
I suppose I love my garden, it is big and full of wildlife, and I also have some really lovely neighbours, unfortunately they are not the ones adjoining me.  I've suppose I've lasted so long, on the false hope that the family were going to do something, but then finally realising that they wasn't.  Then of course the Landlord gave me false hope, even saying that everything was in line and ready to go, but then the Covid came in, and I was left here, and then nothing really got going thereafter, and I've had excuse after excuse, while the situation here has deteriorated even more, going from a noise, and welfare concern, to harassment. So I've been waiting for the dangling carrot, but not actually getting it, and now I'm beginning to realise that it may always be out of reach, for the authorities are just pushing paperwork, as they aren't having to live in the situation as I am.
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It's not worth your life to remain in that house. It sounds like the neighbor is mentally ill and irrational. She isn't going to change. I think you need to leave as soon as possible, even if you have to rent a hotel room for a while. If you are renting, tell the landlord that you are deducting the expense of the hotel from your rent. Submit a written report to the police, social services, and any other agency with authority to address the problems. But, leave. You have to protect your life.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
She is definitely mentally ill and irrational, how much of that is dementia and how much of that is mental illness remains to be seen, as I think she has always been a hoarder.  You're right it isn't going to change, in fact with dementia it will only deteriorate further, and she is an aggressive type. The police and social services have untold reports on this, and other dementia charities, I have informed the Landlord about reduction in rent, but they won't do that as they are being seen to dot the i's and cross the t's and so lawfully they are doing the right thing.  Basically it appears they are just blaming each other.
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Move and quickly! BTW, if there is drug use going on and the landlord is made aware of it, he may be held responsible for illegal activity on his property. Notify your local police about possible drug use and they will start watching the place.
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There is a lot of good advice here, in the end you have to decide how much time you are willing to invest. You could use that same energy and set up a new place you like as much somewhere else and choose a more isolated location so not to end up in a similar situation.

I’ve had terrible neighbors before and I know it can take over your life and cause terrible stress. I worry the elderly lady will pass then you’ll be stuck with her son and the hoard is still there.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
Well, they are only considering the son as a lodger, but the elderly lady has a few years in her yet, unless of course something goes wrong elsewhere with her dementia or diabetes.
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Move. It’s not worth the headache. We lived in an apartment recently for a couple of years and had a horrible neighbor upstairs that made tons of noise night and day. The manager would take our complaints, express sympathy, and ultimately do NOTHING.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
You're right they are excellent at doing nothing, I've noticed that.
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I would call Code Enforcement, repeatedly, until they come out and see the inside of her unit - if you are positive it warrants a visit from them.

I would also call The Elder Abuse Hotline and report the son for financial abuse.

Call as many agencies as you can think of. The goal is to get lots of official people inside her unit. One of them will surely make something happen. If not, rinse and repeat with the calls.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
Unbelievably the Landlord has not gained whole access to the property and it's their property, it's beyond belief.  The police have done a welfare check and as I understand that's what warranted a welfare concern and alerted social services.  I've contacted all the dementia and aged charities, some have been helpful, but have admitted that this is going to be a long process.
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Since they are not "working," they are probably using the senior's money as well as using her place to distribute drugs. Keep a log of "visitors" next door and let police know your suspicions. A drug bust may be needed to route out all the problems.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
The police and Landlord know about the drug use at the property. Thank you for your answer, there probably is a financial gain for them.
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You said you reported this to the "authorities" I see you have called the police, have you called the Elder Abuse Hotline? If not do that immediately. When you file a report to the hotline you need to focus your report of the potential harm to the individual. Many times callers will call the hotline and report a situation but they don't tell how the situation is a threat to the safety of the individual they are reporting. Call the hotline and tell them how much danger she is in by remaining in her home. The greater risk you can show SHE is in the higher priority your call will receive. Don't make the call about you and how she is having a negative impact on your life, the focus must be on the danger to her by remaining in the home!

Good luck, keep us updated on progress!
Cheryl J. Wilson, M.S.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
Social services, and  all the dementia charities know, and they just refer it back to adult social services.
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The authorities will not want to evict anyone during the pandemic. This sounds like a terrible situation for you. They sound like the neighbors from h*ll, and it's a shame that the authorities are not protecting you. It sounds like you will not be able to do anything about it for months or longer, as this pandemic is no where near dying down. You have to decide if it's worth it to live in this toxic situation and live in fear for your posessions and personal safety. Maybe there are other nice apartments out there that you can move to. I've heard that rents are coming down in many places, for those who can pay their rent. You may want to talk to an attorney about the situation, especially if you will have to break a lease if you decide to move.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
You are right, I need to find out where I stand legally, if I don't then at least I've ventured down that avenue, thank you.
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Move. There is no point in staying if you've been miserable as long as you have. Do you love the house more than any enjoyment you can have while living there?

You say you love your home and have put in a lot of money, have adjoining walls with neighbors - so sounds like you bought a condo or apartment type unit while neighbor is only renting. Landlord of renter could have done something about this issue a long time ago, before covid. Most leases are 6 mos or 12 mos. If he had real concerns over the condition of his property he could have went month to month on her rent to give 30 day notice to vacate or refused to renew lease with her. He did neither. Probably because it's better for him to collect rent every month instead of cleaning up her mess and finding another renter.

You aren't getting help from landlord or police even though you asked long before covid was an issue. The threats are just threats until someone gets hurt and it's too late. That family is going to continue to make life miserable. The covid virus is not going away anytime soon, so with that issue holding up evictions now, the lady is not leaving. Get away from her. There's a place out there that you can love and have some peace of mind.
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my2cents Nov 2020
PS - you said landlord can only do so much. You're giving him waaaay too much credit. He could have done much more than he's done.
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More than 2.5 years of your life have been eaten up by this drama. You already know the limits of the authorities and landowners to make the problems go away.

Look up "sunk cost fallacy" and then think honestly and realistically how you would feel if the problems continued another 3 or 6 months, or more. Think also about how it would feel to relocate and not have the chaos, drama, and threats.

It sounds horrible. Years ago I lived in a flat below a mentally ill woman and still remember it as one of the most stressful times of my life. I loved that apartment and yard, it was such a great place. But as sad as I was to leave it, I knew the situation had little likelihood of resolution, andI had no influence to make it change. And it was SUCH a blessing to no longer live with the anxiety, anger, and distraction that living there committed me to. I now live in an extraordinarily sane, quiet building and thank my lucky stars every day.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
I read the sunk costs fallacy, it was very good, and true, and thank you for sharing your experiences, it is a stressful way to live, and you clearly felt the same as I, I hope some day I have the same hindsight, a sane quiet building, sounds like heaven.
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Is the son using weed legally? I would think he moved in as he had no where to live, especially with covid. Record the noise with date and time. Tell social services you suspect son is taking advantage of his elderly mother. Why do the authorities reveal your name? How old is son and how old is mom? Do you think it is dirty and the board of health would intervene? I am just throwing ideas out there and agree this is a terrible way to live.
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my2cents Nov 2020
The don't always reveal name. Sometimes it's just a matter of 2+2 to figure out who reported it. If you have words with a neighbor and then authorities show up, they ASSUME you made the call. With that assumption, they will make your life h*ll so they can continue on. Health department might be helpful because hoards bring rodents/bugs. Police, in the past, should have identified a hoard - so should the landlord. Maybe a call to attorney or legal aid to ask about options would get her on the right track of who would intervene in this city/area. What a mess.
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You could complain to the Village, City or County where you are. Contact the Code Enforcement department. (Fire Department and the Health Department may also want to be made aware of the situation.)
This is a hazard to you as well as other neighbors.
A lease that is signed between you and your landlord is a contract and in exchange for your rent he agrees to provide a safe, habitable place. This sounds like neither.
You could send him a letter indicating that since your current place is not safe, sanitary due to the conditions the neighbor is creating you are going to move out.
(If you move out without cause he could sue you, the letter and any other documentation you have proving unsafe or unsanitary conditions and proof that you have tried to get him/her to correct would probably go in your favor if the landlord were to take you to court)
I am surprised that APS has not taken more steps to protect this woman and make her safe as it does not sound like she is safe being cared for by the person that is supposed to be.
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Rose21 Dec 2020
Hi Grandma, The fire department, and health department know about the situation.  I've sent photo's etc, but they then leave the problem at the Landlords door, because it's their property, and they are having problems accessing it, which is a weakness on there part.
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I had an apartment when I was younger that was next to someone similar. It wasn't much of a problem as I was young and a bit of a night owl. But the big problem came when other people complained and this person was forced to move. On the night after she moved I awoke to hoardes of roaches crawling all over me! I totally freaked out and did not go back to bed. I stayed up all night balling the bugs crawling in under the walls.
Noise is one thing but hoarding can be a disaster. With some help from my friends I moved the very next day. I suggest you do the same before you wake to the same problem.
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Kittybee Nov 2020
I was also thinking about fire danger.
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