My brother who refused to help, even said our father wasn't welcome in his home, is claiming that he did his part by suggesting that our dad pay a caregiver to look after him.
No, it is not reasonable to think that there is an obligation for a family member to provide care for an aging parent.
It is reasonable to expect that most people brought up reasonably well will want to provide some level of care for an aging parent, out of love. Most is not all. And certainly not everyone was brought up reasonably well.
In the states where there is a filial responsibility law, it only applies to financial support (which is a considerable obligation -- I'm not downplaying it), for indigent parents. It does not extend to taking them to doctor's visits or visiting them or calling them or bringing them into their own homes or personally providing care. And it does not apply equally to all children. A nursing home can select the wealthiest child to sue, for example.
I think there is no right answer here. Everyone has to decide for themselves what level of care they can handle if any at all. I don't think anyone should be forced or made to feel guilty for their choices when it comes to elder care. I don't think a sibling that believes they should do every thing possible for elder care should think that all the siblings should believe the same. I don't think the sibling that steps up should feel resentment because other siblings don't feel the same.
If you have chosen to provide care that is your decision and you shouldn't expect other siblings to give the same commitment.
With that said I would hope that all would want to help but you can't force it or lay a guilt trip on those that choose otherwise
I would say in a 'normal' upbringing (where you had a pretty good relationship with your parent) you would feel more 'obligated' to care for your parent... How about all the babies born from 'affairs' or dysfunctional people that didn't even think about what it would be like to have a child... In other words, it wasn't 'planned'... Just saying... I was on my own from 15 on... did everything on my own... bent over backward to try and 'keep' my (only) family as a 'unit'... only to find most (all) are narcissistic... I love my mother... caring for her... but, I always crave for the love (and, support) I never had or will have...
Sunnydreams ,I totally agree with your thoughts about the absent parenting, yet expect the return of a devoted daughter. My 'Mother' is totally disabled of her own choice and expects me to wait on her hand and foot. Most days I have to feed her as she "doesn't have the strength" to do it herself. From the begining I tried everything to keep her moving. It was my understanding we were going to be buddies and do things together.That didn't last long . The more I did the, more she expected, to the point of forcing me to quit the job I loved, to be with her 24/7. The question was about obligation. I believe we have obligation to our 'self' first, otherwise we are no good to others.I resent being in the position that I'm not true to myself. This woman was NEVER there for me. Yet, I go through each day letting her feel she is the 'Queen" she thinks she is. I'm wondering if it maybe more "Respect" than obligation???
The problem is that there are parents who didn't try to be there when their children needed them, who took instead of gave, and who undermined rather than supported and still feel completely untitled to having a devoted loyal daughter. The question of obligation is a very difficult one for me.
PStern, makes you shudder, doesn't it? Any documentation on that person's unsuccessful demand for (what I suspect he or she saw as) an advance? - it would be helpful in establishing the history.
In my situation a family member said that they would help, then backed out because they had asked our father for a lot of money and then didn't get it. Eight months later after our father passed, the family member learned that their inheritance was reduced from 50% to 25%. Now the "disinherited" family member is contesting the will claiming lack of capacity...
Ask the family member what they can do if anything to help. If they want nothing to do with the care at least you know up front. Also sometimes people don't what to do to help. Even litlle things that don't involve hands on care like grocery shopping, picking up meds, maybe even laundry will ease some burden of the hands on caregiver.
PStern (I'm sure this is absolutely NOT what you meant, but….) so if your parents dedicated their lives to you, sent you to college, supported your early career perhaps, and as a result ended up without two pennies to rub together or leave as your inheritance, then you don't owe them squat?
Perhaps i'm ultra sensitive, but it seems to me that if your parents did all they could do for you their entire lives, always putting your interests above theirs, it's not too much to say that there is an obligation, particularly when there's a sizable inheritance pending. Unless one is willing to give up their inheritance, shouldn't they step up if only to preserve it because in my experience I've seen parents alter their wills to benefit the child that was there for them when most needed...
This has been a question I have been struggling with and it has caused me so much agnst at one point I thought I mike have a nervous breakdown. Why? Because in my heart I want to do the "right" thing. The "right" thing that my upbringing taught me, what I see some other people doing who say how could you not do for your aging parents? I have visited people in nursing homes who I see sitting in wheel chairs frail, looking overmedicated, heads fallen down on their chests and I am horrified. Could I put a loved one in a home? Yet I also know in my heart that I am not a one on one caregiver. I don't have it in me to wash my parents body or wipe their behind or change diapers. I have no nursing type bones in my body- sickness makes my already anxious personality go over the edge. Plus things are not as they were when they took care of their own- the wife was a homemaker not working 2 jobs like myself- one of them which is running a small business that we own. I'm out of the house 10 hrs. a day doing my day job which affords us the health benefits. I don't have the liberty to quit either job. Everything gets on my husband's nerves and he is very vocal about it. It would be a stressful environment to bring someone into and it would be stressful for him to have more things to get on his nerves. But I still feel like I'm "bad". I have much guilt and yes also resentment. Thank God I found this site. Not only did I find I am not alone and the worst person who ever walked the earth- but when I read about the challenges it has reinforced my mind with the knowledge that if it comes down to it I cannot bring my parent to my home to live. I will do what I CAN do. I will be the best advocate I can and find the best care we can afford and I will stay present in the situation at all times. But I refuse to feel obligated and then have it all blow up in my face. God forgive me- help me to do what is right for all. Give me the strength to deal with what it is I need to do and to allow myself forgiveness for what I'm really not called to do.
Sooozi, I personally do feel an obligation - a loving one - to care for my mother. That's why I volunteered to do it. My siblings clearly don't feel the same (or not to the same extent, anyway; I didn't exactly have to fight for the privilege…). Some people feel strongly that their parents have destroyed any such trusting relationship, and reject the obligation: could one result of this legislation's being invoked be a rise in the number of child v. parent "divorces"? And would I want my children to feel "obliged" to care for me? Maybe I'll feel differently when I'm ill and old and frail, but right now I'd be horrified if they did.
The point, though, is that the obligation is a moral one. I get a bit twitchy when lawmakers start enforcing morality. It never seems to end well.
We would not exist if we didn't have parents. If they didn't give life, we would not be here. We do not choose to be born, but without our parents ...
Do we feel obligation to those who gave us life? That we have the chance to feel the warm sun on our faces or see a child smile? That we get to experience the wonders around us?
Huge question...
Some would say we only have to pay it forward. Others will do nothing. Some will be thankful...
Jesus H C! Thirty states! Really??? That's pretty alarming. I hate to sound cynical, but is this political development fiscally or morally driven?
I was going to say: I think it is reasonable to assume that most people will feel some sense of obligation to provide care for their parents. I was going to go on to say that it is equally reasonable for people who don't feel that obligation to decline to play any part in their parents' care - and some of those people will have very good reasons indeed for their sentiments.
Now I feel the ground trembling… So if the law is coming down on the honour your father and mother side of things, what impact do we see that having on people's approach to their own later life, their parents' welfare and their own relationship with their adult children?
You choose to have children. Nobody gets to choose whether or not they have parents. Has anyone got a summary of other cases' ratios? (PS was the PA case the one where the mother skedaddled overseas and left the son holding the invoice?)
i think that the system thats in place in the usa right now is pretty common sensical. if the family doesnt step up and provide good in home care for the elder the state will -- but, there will be no assets left for the family to fight over. my mother helped me thru some of lifes most bleak moments. what some might see as obligation i saw as repayment.
Obligation-NO, Choice-YES. Doing an unwanted obligation is a disaster waiting to happen. A choice has the potential for a successful outcome. Helping is a better solution. Elderly caregiving is a personal choice by an individual and everyone other than the individal making that choice needs to mind their own business.
Thirty states are invoking "filial responsibility" laws. That means you pay for your parents' care if you have the means. Pennsylvania, Health Care & Retirement Corporation of America v. Pittas, (Pa. Super. Ct., No. 536 EDA 2011, May 7, 2012), where a PA appeals court found a son liable for his mother’s $93,000 nursing home bill under the state’s filial responsibility law.
Each child has to make their own decision. A decision that they will have to live with. My brother made the same decision yours did. He focuses on his own family, wife and children. He said he would help to put our mother in a home, nothing else. Visited her once or twice a year, briefly.
My sister agreed to visit my mom once a month for the weekend, which was a huge relief to me. Although it was not much, I will forever appreciate it. Also my sister spent the last few years of our mother's life talking with her and working out their issues and getting closer.
I chose to be there for my mom. It was hard and took a toll on my life, but I would not have it any other way. She was a good mom to me while I was little and it's what I wanted to do. Now I have good memories of helping her when she was failing needed me and I know I did the best I could.
My brother and sister have to live with their decisions and trust me, they both feel fine. I only hope two things...
1. That I will not be a burden on my sons 2. and if I need them, they will not make me leave my home.
All we can do is the best we can do and if we do our best, that's good enough.
I feel that we should try to do what we can for our elders. That doesn't necessarily mean creating financial disaster for ourselves or taking them into our homes if that will destroy the family. It does mean working with agencies if we cannot provide some care by going to their home to help out.
I agree that obligation is a strong word because that can breed resentment and turn into elder neglect or abuse. This is especially an issue if the parents were abusive to their children. When child abuse was present, the adult child may feel very conflicted about caring for his or her parents. In these cases, unless there's been significant counseling to help the adult child recover, it's perhaps better for the adult child to take an administrative role in caregiving if, indeed, they can take any role at all.
In close-knit families, adult children generally want to help their aging parents to whatever degree they can, within reason. That's not out of obligation so much as out of love. There is a difference. Take care, Carol
My husband feels the same obligation. We moved his parents in with us 2 1/2 years ago because they could no longer care for themselves. He has no help from his siblings, they state "you asked for it, it's all on you". It is rough for us as his mother is basically an invalid who will not or try to do anything for herself. She expects her husband to take care of all her daily needs. It is getting too much for him and I know this is going to sound cruel but I refuse to let myself or my husband do it. She refuses to use the bathroom so he put a potty chair in their bedroom and she uses it 2-3 times a day and then calls her husband to empty and clean it. She can use the bathroom but like I said she refuses. He also has to clean her up afterwards because she will not. I don't mean to make this a "Venting" answer but it is very frustrating. She will not come to the dinner table for meals, he has to take her meals to her and then clean her up when she is fully capable of doing it herself. All our attention is focused on Dad because he is the one who truly needs help and unfortunately there is a lot of resentment towards her. She refuses to even think about assisted living.
I do feel children do have an obligation to help care for their parents when it is at all possible. We do have it rough but they are our parents and it their better days, they have always tried to help their children out when the need was there.
Yours is a good question. I'm sure you'll get a lot of feedback on this.
"Obligation" is a strong word. Why is your brother obligated to care for your dad? Are you obligated to care for him too?
Feeling that someone is obligated to do something is having an expectation that that person should do something and having expectations often end up becoming resentments. We can't force others to do what we think they should do.
It is reasonable to expect that most people brought up reasonably well will want to provide some level of care for an aging parent, out of love. Most is not all. And certainly not everyone was brought up reasonably well.
In the states where there is a filial responsibility law, it only applies to financial support (which is a considerable obligation -- I'm not downplaying it), for indigent parents. It does not extend to taking them to doctor's visits or visiting them or calling them or bringing them into their own homes or personally providing care. And it does not apply equally to all children. A nursing home can select the wealthiest child to sue, for example.
If you have chosen to provide care that is your decision and you shouldn't expect other siblings to give the same commitment.
With that said I would hope that all would want to help but you can't force it or lay a guilt trip on those that choose otherwise
Why? Because in my heart I want to do the "right" thing. The "right" thing that my upbringing taught me, what I see some other people doing who say how could you not do for your aging parents? I have visited people in nursing homes who I see sitting in wheel chairs frail, looking overmedicated, heads fallen down on their chests and I am horrified. Could I put a loved one in a home?
Yet I also know in my heart that I am not a one on one caregiver. I don't have it in me to wash my parents body or wipe their behind or change diapers. I have no nursing type bones in my body- sickness makes my already anxious personality go over the edge. Plus things are not as they were when they took care of their own- the wife was a homemaker not working 2 jobs like myself- one of them which is running a small business that we own. I'm out of the house 10 hrs. a day doing my day job which affords us the health benefits. I don't have the liberty to quit either job. Everything gets on my husband's nerves and he is very vocal about it. It would be a stressful environment to bring someone into and it would be stressful for him to have more things to get on his nerves. But I still feel like I'm "bad". I have much guilt and yes also resentment.
Thank God I found this site. Not only did I find I am not alone and the worst person who ever walked the earth- but when I read about the challenges it has reinforced my mind with the knowledge that if it comes down to it I cannot bring my parent to my home to live. I will do what I CAN do. I will be the best advocate I can and find the best care we can afford and I will stay present in the situation at all times. But I refuse to feel obligated and then have it all blow up in my face. God forgive me- help me to do what is right for all. Give me the strength to deal with what it is I need to do and to allow myself forgiveness for what I'm really not called to do.
The point, though, is that the obligation is a moral one. I get a bit twitchy when lawmakers start enforcing morality. It never seems to end well.
Do we feel obligation to those who gave us life? That we have the chance to feel the warm sun on our faces or see a child smile? That we get to experience the wonders around us?
Huge question...
Some would say we only have to pay it forward. Others will do nothing. Some will be thankful...
How do you want to be treated when you are old?
I was going to say: I think it is reasonable to assume that most people will feel some sense of obligation to provide care for their parents. I was going to go on to say that it is equally reasonable for people who don't feel that obligation to decline to play any part in their parents' care - and some of those people will have very good reasons indeed for their sentiments.
Now I feel the ground trembling… So if the law is coming down on the honour your father and mother side of things, what impact do we see that having on people's approach to their own later life, their parents' welfare and their own relationship with their adult children?
You choose to have children. Nobody gets to choose whether or not they have parents. Has anyone got a summary of other cases' ratios? (PS was the PA case the one where the mother skedaddled overseas and left the son holding the invoice?)
my mother helped me thru some of lifes most bleak moments. what some might see as obligation i saw as repayment.
My sister agreed to visit my mom once a month for the weekend, which was a huge relief to me. Although it was not much, I will forever appreciate it. Also my sister spent the last few years of our mother's life talking with her and working out their issues and getting closer.
I chose to be there for my mom. It was hard and took a toll on my life, but I would not have it any other way. She was a good mom to me while I was little and it's what I wanted to do. Now I have good memories of helping her when she was failing needed me and I know I did the best I could.
My brother and sister have to live with their decisions and trust me, they both feel fine. I only hope two things...
1. That I will not be a burden on my sons
2. and if I need them, they will not make me leave my home.
All we can do is the best we can do and if we do our best, that's good enough.
I agree that obligation is a strong word because that can breed resentment and turn into elder neglect or abuse. This is especially an issue if the parents were abusive to their children. When child abuse was present, the adult child may feel very conflicted about caring for his or her parents. In these cases, unless there's been significant counseling to help the adult child recover, it's perhaps better for the adult child to take an administrative role in caregiving if, indeed, they can take any role at all.
In close-knit families, adult children generally want to help their aging parents to whatever degree they can, within reason. That's not out of obligation so much as out of love. There is a difference.
Take care,
Carol
I do feel children do have an obligation to help care for their parents when it is at all possible. We do have it rough but they are our parents and it their better days, they have always tried to help their children out when the need was there.
"Obligation" is a strong word. Why is your brother obligated to care for your dad? Are you obligated to care for him too?
Feeling that someone is obligated to do something is having an expectation that that person should do something and having expectations often end up becoming resentments. We can't force others to do what we think they should do.
Where is your dad now? Who is caring for him?