I'm so tired of my Mom saying, "I don't feel good." Anyone else?

Dr JC I KNOW that what you are saying makes sense to you and to probably most on here but your comments are not so easy to take on board as they are to write. That is not a criticism of your words at all for I totally agree with you in some respects - BUT as an example I found the words

You are no longer a little girl victim of a more powerful parent. That you choose to subjugate yourself to perpetual victimization is something that you are doing to yourself as a way of recreating your past helplessness.

Interesting - from an outsider's view and from a psych's view that is what they see and objectively that is right. Subjectively it is not right

Sometimes we FEEL we NEED to show back the kindness we wanted and to demonstrate that we had the integrity to rise above the angst and anguish they caused and behave like the real humans we are, not the poor excuses for humans they could so easily have made us.

We ALL need to change as we grow but don't expect miracles from us...each tiny tiny step is painful as we move away from the inculcated fear of stepping one inch out of line to knowing we can behave as WE want. For many of us, the slightest criticism has us running for cover and that has been instilled into us and its bloody hard to break even with help (and Ive had 8 years of help and still nowhere near dealing with it)

The main trouble is that very often we hide it so well because we learned to do that. Then, as we grow we don't actually really grow we just become adult children - still hiding our true feelings from the world and even from our loved ones for we have been brought up not to trust those we should have loved totally unconditionally.

We have lost the ability to trust our judgement - because we were raised NOT to trust. We lose to some extent (and it does depend on the abuse) the ability to stand up and say no for ourselves although, and i speak only for myself here, I can and do stand really firm on the behalf of others.

This is not so much about a recreation of helplessness its about learned worthlessness and incredibly low self esteem brought about by others at an age when those skills of independence and growth and the ability to decipher who to trust are being developed.

SO while I understand your comments totally I think we have expectations of excellence for ourselves that supercede those that others would have of us given the circumstances.

I cannot imagine what Kala went through I just know that for her caring for that monster will have shown her she is the human she always wanted to be and she has shown compassion for someone who truly didn't deserve it . Then she has taken back the power by putting him into a care facility .......and that will still have hurt her as well as released her for, regardless of the terrible things he did, she still sees him as her father and that's the bit that can never go away.

Sorry Kala for talking about you in the third person there no offence hun and no offence to you Doc I just needed to show you that for each survivor the road is different and walking it will remain one of life's tightropes.

We do truly know that our walk is different / weird / out of kilter with the rest of society but society must recognize and accept that our upbringing was too and that that will impact on us forever - it doesn't matter how much counselling you have, you can never overcome the subjugation you felt (past tense) all you can do is learn to shelve it and manage it that way - but don't think - job done or it won't come and bite you on the ass some day because it lurks there waiting for that one day of weakness and wham it is all back with you like it was yesterday and so we begin again to pack it back up and shelve it again.

Jude, that post was beautiful and profound. I wish could print it out and read it daily!! How true--when the ones we should be able to trust-- the ones we should love unconditionally, we can't---ironic, as I start seeing a new therapist today. I have been in and out of therapy for 20 years, dealing with the aftershocks of my abusive past. YES, wouldn't it be great if we were capable of simply saying "This is not my life now, I can change" and poof--we are? It's truly just baby steps and at my age, I now wonder if I will EVER be truly "OK". I feel for my hubby who did not know this about me when he wanted to get married, and for the challenge I have been to him as a wife. I wonder how my actions and fears have affected my kids. I do look forward, and as awful as this sounds, when my abuser died, I felt nothing, just relief. He can't hurt anyone else.
Kala--I have thought about you often. You went through a kind of hell that makes my situation seem pretty tame. Still not OK, but you must be super strong to have dealt with that. And are still dealing. Sorry-waaaay off the OP, right? But these things have a way of growing and pulling us out of our shells.

Its not way off OP its why so many off cant handle the I dont feel well scenario......because when we felt bad noone was there for us and so we are limited in are capacity to deal with it hun...it is something that we have learned does NOT happen and every time we act responsively then we just turn the screw a little tighter on ourselves.

My abuser is dead. It was probably the best New Year present I have ever had BUT it came at a price. I was sent diving headlong into crisis when from his death bed he asked to see me privately. I didn't want to go because I wasn't sure if I could accept his apology.

I talked to my counsellor who said ...and what if he still wants to know he controls you. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH

SHE was pleased I had considered going because it truly meant I had stepped forward into believing in people again.... little did she realise her words had sent me spinning back into the trustless state I now seemed to be confined to...I had never considered for one moment that the could still be like that.

I have stood up to him before though - once.

When my father died he turned up at the funeral all smartly and smarmily dressed and sweet talking. He rested his hand on my daughter's shoulder - she was an adult then but it rankled and then some. It wasn't the action but the gleam in his eyes that said and what can you do about it?

I think he knew then that he would never control me again for I said you take your hands off her now or I will call the police this instant and I know it is my father's funeral but everyone will know you for the pervert you are. He left pretty quick.

So we are damaged humans - but we do the best we can with what we got and that's all anyone can ask of us...some of you do better than anyone has the right to expect and some of you are bloody incredible. So hats off to the abused who can shine lights in a terrible darkness - I could never have looked after him unless it was whilst holding a 12 bore.

I can so relate to all your comments, and have been through it all with my mom until she passed almost 3 years ago. It's so difficult to be patient, though and you want them to understand. Sometimes I used to want to shake my mom and ask, "Mom, are you in there?" Then I thought, I may be there someday, and I would bounce back to reality. I hope if there comes a day, I would want my family to be patient as well.
Ismiami: I used to change the subject a lot! I also pretended a lot -- but worth it and even though it was hard to see a loved one be someone I almost couldn't recognize - the dementia robs them of who they are, I did what I could, and have no regrets regarding my mom - she raised me and took care of me (even when I was naughty) - so I took care of her. Thank you all for your input - every one has their own story, because each person who has a disease or impairment is different - all are affected differently.

I understand how frustrating that can be.. I have my Mom sit outside for a while or maybe play one of her games that she likes. I think just distracting her helps some. Sooner or later she will stop the broken record, and if the pain is real then we will know for sure. Sometimes sshe just wants someone to pay attention to her and just be with her. She has had an active life and now cant do much of anything because of the back pain or leg pain or whatever... BUT.. When I offer to take her bowling.. shes up and ready in no time at all... and no mention of aches and pains... until later. Then I know she hurts but had a fun day. Mom is 94 and used to be a champion Horseshoe thrower, great golfer, and bowler too.

Jude, what you said is so true and something I had not thought about before. "When we felt bad no one was there for us..." One thing I resent most about my mother is she threw me to the wolves in dealing with my abuser brother and life in general. She never had my back. I learned early in life that I could not trust her. Anything that happened to me became my fault because she didn't want to deal with it. She just didn't want a daughter that needed anything from her. So I learned to handle things myself and teach myself everything I needed to know.

Now I look at her and know that in no way did she ever earn what I do for her. And heaven knows why I continue to help her, because she doesn't appreciate it at all. I know she has no love in her, so I'm not trying to earn that. My father was mildly autistic, so really didn't care if I was breathing or not. I'm not doing it for him.

I think maybe that is the answer. Maybe I am the only one in the scattered family who does care enough to what needs to be done. I do have to admit that, as the years wear on, I am beginning to wonder if it will ever end... or if she'll have the final joke of destroying what's left of my life. Who knows? Things will have to work themselves through.

Jessie there is not a chance in h*ll she will destroy the rest of your life not a chance for when she is gone you will be free to stand in the sunshine, free to cut every single tie that you don't want to bind you, free to speak out and say the things you held back on, free to be the strong woman you are, free to stand up and say ...you know what despite it all she got the best. In caring for her as you have, you have turned the other cheek and that's about as good as it can get in my book. Maybe not in others' books but hell do you really give a damn what they think when they are nowhere in sight to lend a hand?

To all of you on here do you realise how much you give to us all, you are the support that our states, social services, doctors, relatives, friends are not. You do all of this and care for your loved ones. Heavens you even come here after your loved ones have passed and STILL help us understand the difficult path we have chosen (had dropped on us) So a HUGE thank you from me for without you I think I too might have been in care by now - probably in a straight jacket!

I am so thankful for this forum! And JudeAH53, you are not only articulate and eloquent, you are REAL! I sincerely thank you for that! I appreciate that you understand this from your experience and bring it to others to help them understand! I mean that for everyone on this forum. Your posts help me a LOT! I am not where most are in this caregiver journey yet and I am fortunate that I haven't had any other types of abuse to deal with except from my mother. She made me her substitute "husband" from a very young age. Until now, I thought that I had a great childhood! My step-father is an alcoholic and my mother is very damaged from losing her mother at a young age. My mother has done her husband a big injustice by covering up his drinking problem (even from us for a long time). Her mild stroke in 2012 was an opportunity to no longer have to clean up behind him when he gets so drunk that he loses control of his bladder and bowels like she has done for the past 47 years of their marriage. She hasn't done it for the past 3 years and they both have this grand expectation that I should just give up my life and move in with them to wait on them both! The fact is...they are only in their early 70's and neither one of them are physically disabled! The other issue is, I am not completely convinced that my mother even has dementia. I don't trust her doctor because I discovered that he had her on medications that she didn't need and made him take her off of them. I know that she suffers from memory loss, but I believe that she is trying to use the stroke to pull me back in as her substitute husband. Prior to the stroke, I finally started pulling away from her after many years of allowing her to control my life. She has serious abandonment issues and wants her adult children around her as if we are still little kids! She doesn't love nor respect her husband, but they are enmeshed now from being together for so long. They both want me to take over covering up his alcoholism but that is NOT going to happen! The only help that I am willing to support him with is DETOX! I am divorced and have led a lonely secluded life. My mother used my love for her to control me. She kept me to herself growing up and ran anyone who came close to me away. As a result, I made bad decisions and selections in men. I had no idea that my self-esteem was so low. I am purposely not dating and working on getting myself in order. I am not going to let them pull me into their dysfunction. What is most difficult is that I still have to maintain some level of compassion for the situation because they are truly on a downward spiral. My mother has not done anything to help herself recover from the stroke. NOTHING! She doesn't wear clothes anymore, just house dresses that can substitute for night gowns and doesn't even go outside. She is definitely depressed because if my brother and me are not there, they keep the blinds drawn and the house dark. She uses every excuse not to take responsibility for herself and worries more about his drinking than she does for herself. She wants us all to treat her as if she is disabled and she is NOT! She is fully comprehensive of what is going on around her and reveals it all of the time. Her convenient, famous last words when you try to talk to her about what is happening are "I don't even know what you are talking about!" She does have speech issues as a result of the stroke. When I mention "assisted living" or hiring a "home care professional" she doesn't want that! That response tells me a lot. I know what I am dealing with and learning about how and what others are dealing with has helped me stay focused. I struggle with it all and at least have my sibling (a brother) to help me. He is living with them and they don't like it at all. He cooks for them on occasion but as a man, he established boundaries with them a long time ago when we were teenagers. Its a little harder for women because we get the care-giver role by default. We both are also dysfunctional and have problems establishing long-term relationships with other people. For everyone struggling with this responsibility, learn to just take it one day at a time. Its okay to complain or get discouraged because it is a HUGE responsibility. To quote JudeAH53, "To all of you on here do you realise how much you give to us all, you are the support that our states, social services, doctors, relatives, friends are not!" THANK YOU!

Jessie, you hit; my mom was the same way - she didn't want a daughter who needed anything from her, but, also, like Jude said, when it came time that she needed me, I didn't want to be like her, I wanted to "turn the other cheek" as she said; however, having said that, I may have done it for my grandmother - isn't Jude who's taking care of her mom for her dad/because of her dad - well, in my case, it was my grandmother, who did take care of me, not in the sense of me staying with her all the time, but just that she was the one who "had my back", if you will, but she did want me to take care of my mom; said she needed that and that's what she'd always tried to do but she knew she wouldn't always be here for her - of course, having said that, I was told later by mom's brother that grandmother made her that way - but of course if that was the case then she had her own issues to deal with

This put an idea in my head today. I had cleaned out things from my drawers that I didn't use anymore and put them in a box to donate. When I was carrying them to the car, Mom asked me what was in the box. I told her. She got agitated and talked about how I better not be giving her stuff away. I told her no worries, that it was mine. By that time she was angry, talking about all the things I better not be giving away. She was being her old nasty self. Good grief! I took the box on to the car and came back to her still being mad. I said, "You don't deserve me. I am wonderful to you. You don't deserve me." And walked away.

And you know it is the truth.

I went through the same thing, it was not Temporal Arteritis they could never find out what it was. So now she is in a nursing home. If anyone ever finds an answer let me know.

Go Jessie Belle gal good for you hun you MUSTNT take abuse. I am on a great day.

Mums had diarrhoea all day and the purchasers wanted to see the house and the nurse visited - effin great!

Mum woke up her usual happy self - Jings was she stroppy (bad tempered and argumentative - y'all know what I mean) and would I give her enough pills to kill her - NO

Then we had the diarrhoea - everywhere and I mean everywhere why she had to touch it and then start flailing her arms about I dont know - I felt like I was dodging a sniper while I was trying to get to her to clean her - it must have looked hysterically funny.

Then the nurse came and said she didnt have dementia - oh really well shall we just wait a while on that one then? She started telling mum she shouldnt ask me to kill her it wasn't nice to expect that of her daughter. The reply....I didnt ask my daughter ..I asked her (pointing at me) she's the doctor with the tablets (oh I have been elevated in status) but you see pride cometh before a fall as we all know. .....'there'd be no point asking my daughter she does d*mn all' sigh

The nurse has now decided that perhaps she does have dementia. I did tell her that if I stopped the doneprezil she would see a different woman. Oh chimes in mum I am not stopping those that nice doctor gave me those....you can stop the rest if you like.... erm hello???? it took us about 15 minutes to explain that you dont just take tablets because you like the doctor ffs
It's been an interesting day....when the nurse left mum said to me I wouldn't have let her in if I'd known she was one of this morons ...I think she meant Mormons bless her so I corrected her.....well that too I dont like them coming tell me what to do.

Dementia ? no of course she doesnt have it! pffffft

oldbob, you are a love to your wife. however, a lot of tlc does not work in every case, especially those here who are dealing with narcs. so, this is an untried remedy here. maybe tlc in the moments this woman is NOT complaining might be more productive. no reward for bad behavior??
I also can understand the satisfaction that comes from some old coot like this gets caught acting like a bloody fool, selfish, or whatever. Hoist by their own petard. I rarely get the privilege, so when it does happen, I just watch my elder squirm. It is usually harmless: just caught in the act, that's all.

Jude,
You are hopeful, wise, and articulate. Your comments are supportive and have given many some sense of relief. Thank you and good for you.

In my life, I have tried to help people to desist from blaming others for their misfortunes. While many, if not most, complaints and depictions of parental abuse are true, there is no support for anyone's insistence that their aged parents continue to have the power to subject them to continued harassment and unreasonable demands. Adults always have the option to say NO. If they feel guilty for doing so, then that is their own problem, and they have an obligation to resolve it. Many people claim to have been in therapy for years without benefit. Most people do not understand the ground rules of successful therapy.

1. Therapy cannot change the past nor does it challenge the validity of past abuses.
2. Therapy is an opportunity to change oneself in the face of past and contemporaneous traumas.
3. The goal of therapy is to change oneself - NOT to be changed by the therapy or the therapist.
4. It matters not whatever foul things people say about us if we don't already believe them ourselves. For example, if I am unable to convince people that the sun really rises in the West and sets in the East, notwithstanding whatever else has befallen them earlier in their lives, then we need not listen to, let alone believe, people whom we don't trust given their past deceits and abuse. Many people pervert the intent and methods of therapy if all they do is complain and make excuses for their inability to do anything.

In my earlier comments, I reminded people that participants on this site are no longer unfortunate children witnessing the misbehavior/incompetence/brutality of gigantic parents. Still, there are many who seek to perpetuate those dynamics in order to be able to continuing complaining and feeling justified in doing so. In my work with small children, they always knew that I understood and empathized with their impossible life situations. What they found in me was someone who attempted to help them use and devise whatever coping responses they could to deal with their reality. Additionally, whenever their attempts were insufficient, I connected them to social service agencies that could possibly become more effective advocates for them. It didn't always work but it began them on the road to taking control of their lives as much as possible which isn't a bad way to start life.

While not unlike others who have written, I too was traumatized by both of my parents in various and sundry ways during my development. As I learned to set limits and express opinions that differed from my parents' without feeling guilty for doing so, my life improved immeasurably. Now I am able to value those contributions my parents made that were helpful and laugh at or ignore the things they did that were destructive. My father and I were able to make peace and develop a certain level of mutuality and closeness. My mother was unable to accept me as a loving son who was also an equal. She died an embittered and lonely person which was a shared loss which she experienced more keenly than I did. That's life.

My wife who is/was loved for being an exceptional human being before her diagnosis of Alzheimer's 8 years ago, at times has been violent, hostile, demanding, and even psychotic at times. It's not her fault. She was none of those things before her disease. She has been my girlfriend for 53 years, and my life is so much better for having been with her. I have to remind myself who she has been and understand who she has become. That's life. I don't think I'd have it any other way.

Oh Jude, you make me laugh so hard. I have no problem with Mormons none at all. I respect their deep faith. I just don't have time for it now...I know exactly what you are saying. My partner complains of pain, but when the nurse walks in, he is fine. NO HE IS NOT! Except today, he slept through her entire visit. We cushioned his elbows as I am seeing the start of sores. I am so careful, and yet, they want to come on.

Lucky for us, and for me, our doctor is also the head of Hospice here. He recognizes when a person requires hospice. My Partner is failing quickly. He has gone through so many end states within a bit over a week. But, the nurse told me today, he could snap back. He does not want to snap back. I told the doctor today that my Partner is so done with office visits PERIOD. He is done now. Oregon is a right to die state. But, neither of us believe in that practice. I understand his need to pass. I also know when people end up on hospice there are people who last a year or more on hospice. I don't want that for him either. The only thing he would get is pain medication and because he has Parkinson, he will get the Parkinson meds. But, that will be it. It could be very hard for him so they would increase the aid for pain, depression etc. He will sleep all day everyday.

They dragged their feet with my husband and FINALLY put him on hospice and the next day he died. I will not let this happen to my Partner.

He is now sleeping sound for 12 hours at night and most of the day. I can try to wake him, but he comes alive for about 5 minutes and is out again. Now he is finally on a antibiotic. His cough is congestion in his chest. We went to the doctor today to see if he had bronchitis of something. NOT! But, I hear the bubbles in his lungs... Out at the car trying to get him into the car, he started to fall. I caught him in mid air, until help came.

Hey relatives if you have time on your vacations, can you call your DAD?? Only if it will not not bother with your fun.

And it goes on...

Oh dear Jude, made me soooo sad to hear your story. I wish I could take these child molesters and chop them up into pieces and feed them to the alligators where they belong!!!!

Dear DoctorJC loved your response also! I guess everyone has a different recovery story! GOD BLESS OUR INNOCENT, LOVING CHILDREN!!

Just give her An asprin !!! or over the counter pain reliever !!!

An Aspirin? Noooooooooooooooooooo you would have no idea unless you check as to whether they had contra interaction withthe meds they are already taking. I do have to admit I gave my mum a sweet that looks like a pill - and told her to swallow it and NOT chew it (on the grounds it is sweet and pleasantly flavoured !!!) she likes those pills but I only let her have one if the pain is bad!

We call them parma violets and you can get them on amazon - they are brilliant if you have a mmum who thinks that pills will cure - I do have to catch mum in the right mood - sometimes she is averse to taking any but on a good day she is brilliant with these and I just give them to her with a glass of water - no harm done at all and no risk - she is not diabetic

DoctorJC, there is something about your post that troubles me. I wondered if you had lived with or taken care of abusive parents. It is not so simple as establishing boundaries and building a good feeling of self. The problems come when the boundaries are challenged repeatedly during the day by someone who is fighting to keep control of their environment. A person can learn to say no. It is just when you have to say no all day long that it starts to get tiring. A caregiver is left with two choices. They either can leave or stay and learn to cope with what are not the happiest of circumstances.

What you write in your message is basically true, but it goes deeper than that. Caregiving can reopen wounds that were once healed. A big reason for this is that the former child may have matured and changed, but the parent has often become even more abusive as they grow old. The healthy thing, of course, would be for the caregiver to say adios and put the parent in a facility. People who choose not to do that are in a position of having their boundaries challenged daily.

My dad likes to repeat his mother's sayings. One is "Life is hard, then you die." I hear this 10-15 times a day. He talks about dying all the time. He doesn't feel well but won't follow Dr.'s orders (only 2 beers a day instead of 12-15). He drinks NO water. I only see him on weekends so at least I get a break (for now) but still it does drive you nuts. Great advice on this forum though.

There is a lot about Docs post that troubles me but I am just gonna let it slip away - I am sure as h*ll not going to rake it all up over and over - I will say this though when you have been run over by a truck you are most often wary of trucks for the rest of your life. When you are abused it is quite likely that you will be wary of (in my case) men for the rest of your life. Familially I had 2 brushes with abuse as a child one at 8 one at 11. I never addressed it for another 20 years or thereabouts....it had a lot of time to fester. I only found out my mum knew about it and turned a blind eye about a month ago. Did it open old wounds? well what do you think.

Dad repeats, "life is hard, then you die". Love him enough to answer him with: "and here we are, life goes on".

Ummmmm......I'M a Mormon, and I sure hope you aren't being "bothered" by me :) Being Mormon is my faith and a big part of my identity. I laugh when I hear people talk about us like we aren't human, or real, or "normal". Most of the BEST and WORST people I know all happen to be Mormon also. Sure doesn't make us perfect.
Actually, Jude, the nice Mormon ladies in your town/city would probably bring you dinner, clean your house and give respite care for you for months on end with no expectations from you. I know because I have done it---many, many times. Sorry for your bad morning.....I see my Mother getting that way too--if she likes the doctor, she'll do anything for them. She openly flirts with this one (who is absolutely gorgeous and who is 35 years her Jr. Hilariously embarrassing.) The older generation was taught to kind of revere drs. which I find amusing. I look at them as my employees and have "fired" more than one!

It takes a lot of courage and love to share in this way, but aren't we missing the recovery, the health, the boldness it takes for a mother to protect her own daughter by publically stating "remove your hand from my daughter's shoulder, or I will call the police!", instead of wondering about the abuser's intent. If more mothers did this, protect their daughters, there would surely be less abuse passed on in families. Old wounds can be a protection. Save the recovered victim by starting a seperate posting not including her case as the topic, if you please.

Never knew there were actually ground rules for therapy, but the rules on AgingCare are being ignored. We all want to be able to be ourselves, even break the rules when we can get away with it without hurting another person's beliefs.

I WOULD VENTER TO SAY IF SHE WERE TAKEN TO LUNCH OR DINER HER COMPLAINT WOULD MOVE TO HER BELLY. attention is only cure at this point.

This thread has gone south, now I really don't feel good either!
However, this has been an interesting topic, and is fully redeemable; imo.
Isn't one symptom of dementia repeating things, over and over?
Really, what can be done about it if we just cannot get them to change the subject? And yes, gets tiring to hear!

Under the heading of "blaming others", has anyone ever met a narcissist who asked or demanded something of their victim that asked in a way that could be answered with yes or a no? Wouldn't it take a very fast and educated mind, a strong sense of self, and a wholly well person to escape the narcissist's reply, if anyone did attempt a "No" answer? And then, what if you weren't feeling well and the predator caught you off guard?

Was there someone having chest pains earlier?
When I had chest pains and went to the ER, it turned out to be GERD, exacerbated from taking Naproxen for pain. My stomach cannot take that.
Please check in with friends if anyone is having chest pains., or go to the ER.