My father said he would call the police on me and my siblings if we tried to move him to Assisted Living. What are our rights?

Thank you for posting. I actually posted a similar question because I am at my wits end with my mother. Seeing your post actually uplifted me in not feeling so alone and I thank you. I will try to share any insight from my responses.

All of the scenarios you have stated go through my mind constantly. Since mom gave me DPOA he has reported me to the State Family Services and said I had abused my mom? Not sure what that was all about but I will definitely follow up with them on his situation and do what I have to. He is one of those older men that thinks he can do it all at any age and is very stubborn. I am going to do what is necessary asap. I have both of my daughters here now to help me with him. Rich985, that is my dad to a "T". I live in FL and not sure if the law is on my side or his? I surely won't stop trying!

It's very important that you try to stop any parent with cognitive impairments. I always see in the news of these elderly people plowing into buildings or other cars or pedestrians. The latest one really hit home to those whose parents have dementia. In the news, an elderly man drove the wrong the way- on the oncoming traffic. He kept driving despite the police cars and sirens blaring. The cop had to do the pit maneuver. Because he has dementia, he didn't realize that he must obey the cops. They ended up shooting at him. It was announced on all the news channels that he had dementia. Do you know whom every news announcer blamed? The FAMILY. Why didn't the family stop him from driving? They could have the doctor say that he can no longer drive. Or report him to DMV? EVERY single news channel were Not blaming the dementia driver but the Family. I got angry because we all know it's Not Easy. What I'm getting at - is do your best to stop him - even if it means flatting his tires, disconnecting a wire, etc... Because if something happens, you can tell the cops and friends and family that you did try this and that but....

Try to get him to the doctor, slip a note to doc before being seen. Call up DMV, get the person's name, explain the situation. What you're doing is leaving paper trail. Based on this latest news of the dementia driver, I have a feeling as more and more dementia parents get into these serious accidents that everyone (police, people) will start putting the blame on the family. Even when that famous psychology doctor said that the family could have gotten the doctor involved, a person tweeted, "It's not that easy." We have seen here on AC that even doctors hesitate on doing this. A vicious circle that will eventually land on the caregiver's shoulder as being responsible.

Depending on what state you live in, you will have to have a court find him incompetent. If he does not have a POA, the court will appoint a trustee who will act on his behalf and there is not a darn thing any child or other relative day or do about it. Questions: who is his primary caregiver? The medical symptoms you describe really does not have anything to do with his mental state. I believe you will have a tough fight on your hands. If he calls the police, he will get what he wants and have you removed from his property that is his right. You can call the state social services but they won't tell you what happened or what their final decision is. They won't even tell you they are or aren't coming back Leave him alone. He has to hit rock bottom before he will even consider the subject of moving into an assisted living. As long as he sees his doctor, has meds, has working utilities, and food on his on his own, you are fighting a losing battle. Try supporting his decision.

Sandbeach, the number of small children, pregnant woman and whole families wiped out by elderly incompetent drivers seems to be on the rise, at least where I read the newspapers. Stop thinking about how YOU would live with it and start thinking about the mom who loses her 5 year old son. Disable the car, lose the keys. Anything. Today.

Sandibeach, if you don't think Dad is safe driving, PLEASE take action to get him to stop. Talk to his doctor about it. If necessary, report him to DMV so he at least has to take a driving test. Determining what other help he needs is subjective, but allowing him to continue to drive and put others at risk is not a reasonable option. It is sad. It is hard. But it is necessary.

I think it is our responsibility to help our parents when they might not know what is best for them. My mom has dementia and has been in and out of the hospital and skilled nursing facilities. Her illnesses have contributed to her debilitation. Not really paying attention to my dad, I now see he has suffered also. Mom had some lucid moments a while back and I did get DPOA. I promised her many years ago that I would make sure she was not mistreated. Now that I can sit back and observe my dad, I can see he is not doing so good nor making the right decisions. I too thought I should leave him alone and let him "die with his boots on". Since speaking with many social workers, etc., I think that could lead to more problems. We can always hope that things would go the way we want but that is not normally the case. I have sat with my dad at home, was behind him driving, etc. There are some things you would not want to live with if you left your parents alone. I am very worried he will kill someone on the road and I would have to live with that. He has trouble with any paperwork now and doesn't remember what people say to him from day to day. I am still reluctant to call for help but I do not want an innocent person harmed because I sat by and did nothing. It is a very hard decision to make. I wish you the best and know how you feel.

Four and a half years old.

The OP's question is 2 years old.

gogo1971, you really have no rights, but he DOES. Yes, he can call the police and have you removed from his property. The old bear is determined to die with his boots on. So stay out of his way until he falls and can't get up.

Many years ago, my father's sister and her hubby arranged to go the ALF route. They were in Denver and I in Alabama.Their daughter was near-& they chose a place near her home and she visited often. I was able to visit their 'new home' a few times. What a great thing plan to spend their remaining time together, actually together. Dressing for dinner, piano music at dinner. entertainers came, art classes, driven to places they wanted/needed to go. Church even in bad weather. As age progressed she had a stroke and moved to the 'care' side & he was visited constantly. I decided that was what I wanted. Now, I', 66 and if my beloved husband passes before me, I still want that someday. I could live with my children, but, only if it works -really works for the spouses. I don't have that queen of Sheba complex. I have planned to be this way. I want my children to call me 'Best Friend', supply me with a bit of art supplies and audio books. Let me draw, let me learn. I pray for a sound mind so I will always know my sisters love. My body will become wax old and tired, and it will give up. But, so do flowers.

Fortress, you said:

My dad is in a NH and I wish he'd stayed home. His diet there is donuts, cinamon rolls, anything he wants for breakfast lunch dinner his health has gone way downhill and his sugar is always over a 250 now. At home he at small TV dinners, oatmeal, milk, coffee ... small things he could make, and his sugar was much better and he did his own insulin even though he was blind.

By all means, since you're so against nursing homes and they're so 'bad', bring your dad home to live with YOU for awhile and deal with him around the clock. Why aren't you? Is there a problem with it? Is he legally bound to stay in a nursing home? If it's that bad and you dislike his care so much, you'd think you'd want to move your dad into YOUR home with YOU getting a much better diet and care. Is there a reason this isn't possible? Or did your dad himself choose the nursing home? If HE chose it, then he got what he wanted, and is living like he wants to...like all seniors should, right?

Let him call. When the cops get there, give them a rundown of his conditions. Hopefully they'll be the ones making the report to Social Services; and if he's lucky the city might send someone to check up on him every now and then.

Coming from the police, your Dad might agree to AIL.

Fortress, I could not agree with you more. I waited until my father felt that he could not live by himself any longer. He would not tell me at first that he was falling so much and then I got THE call when he drove to go to bowling and ending up almost collapsing, he moved in with me four days later.

I am the lucky one, my husband takes care of my father while I work and make the income for the house. I learned a long time ago that managers do not manage people, they manage expectations. It was the first thing I learned when I entered my MBA program. This is not just a work statement it is a life statement.

Can we force someone into a nursing home? Yes, with the proper court documents, the state's help and the damage to your relationship. It is a process, if you are afraid of what they are doing, and they are living alone then try visiting nursing. If that is not enough call the state for a welfare visit. Try to work with them, they are still your parents even if they act like five year old.

I am not saying this is easy, and my journey is just beginning but I do know that if you try to force a dog to do something it does not want to do it will sit down and look at you like you are crazy. The same is true of most humans, and they tend you more vocal words when they do it.

I disagree with Fortress...but that is their right to their opinion. Most people when they get to the point of not being able to live alone are a danger to themselves, if not to other people. Why would a danger to other people be more serious than a danger to themselves? I am at that point with my mother. Trying to help her live as long as possible alone, but there will be a time when she will not and need 24 hour care.

Call Social Servce. My Mom says she wants to die. I can't let her go because she has to let her time come. They and the local hospice Vna will help you through this.

When ever I had difficulties in careing for Mom and she was resistant. I would think to myself....If she were 2 years old and I saw her doing something usafe, what would I do. If I felt she needed to be bathed and I had to bathe her, I did. If I thought it was unsafe to be cooking I made sure she wasn't alone in a kitchen. I thought if she were 2 would I leave her alone with a bottle of pills. ETC.
You are only doing what's best for the one who needs care if that is what they need. Unless a person can truely care for themselves and it is not possible for a safe, healthy, good quality of life at home than some type of 24/7 care is needed.

In reference to the last post, laws are already present that require all people to report to social services any potentially or already dangerous situation for a child, adult, or an older adult. As the adult child, I would just turn the entire situation over to social services. It is not the goal for social services to place older adults in assisted living situations. The space is often limited in most assisted living centers. They want adults to stay in their homes.Senior day centers are often an option for people who need a little bit of assistance instead of a change of residence. I agree that a person should stay in his or her home for as long as possible, but sometimes there are issues that make allowing them to do so dangerous -- to themselves or others. I would like to assure the person that commented people should be allowed to rot in their homes, that almost every person on this site truly loves and wants the best for their parents. Most of us are grieving and/or are overwhelmed by caring for people that need us. Social services has been created in the attempt to help people who are in the situation such as "gogo1971" has mentioned in the question posted here. I hope they can help you, gogo1971. I know how much it hurts to have a parent who is verbally abusive. Best wishes.

I agree with Fortress that "a person should be allowed to stay in their home and rot if they want to." However, iff a person becomes a "danger to himself and others" then it is not safe for him to live alone at home. Many assisted living places are quite spectacular and provide nutritious foods - my late father was in one of those. I had to move him.....he was getting so confused that he would have left the stove on and burned the house down. He was not paying his utilities - I had to go to the bank and get them to set up an automatic deduction for them so that they would not be shut off. His finances were a mess - I had to jump in and straighten those out also. He was not bathing and stunk to high heaven - and he had always been an immaculate person. The neighbors called adult protective services and I got the phone call from them - I was in legal trouble because I was fully aware that dad was losing his marbles, but in their mind, I was not doing anything about the situation (actually, I was, but they did not know that) So, sometimes adult children can be held liable. If it has not already happened, I'm sure that soon laws will be passed making adult children liable for the behavior of their elderly parents with dementia...in which case none of us will be allowed to "let them stay in their home and rot."

When my mom was on a rehab floor in an assissted living, I was astonished. She could do things she never did at home, and she got along with people so well. She is such a hermit at home. I tell her if I win the lottery, she is getting dropped off at that place within the hour. She laughs.

Its as catch 22 situation- yes you want your parent to be safe- but sometimes they are a danger not only to them selves but to others. After fulltime caregiving mine tried to allege elder neglect because I refused to giver a gun I found she kept loaded under her pillow- then she told all her church members me and my two older children were starving and neglecting her- they believed her- and showed up at our door with food and tried to help her get an attorney-by the way my mother lived until 86 years old - with our care. Now she can live on her own by some magic -after 25 years- a few stop by to run her errands but I hired a home health to help her and I pre pay her apartment- now I realize that a majority of my life is gone caring for a person who in reality was capable of existing on their own- and not only that she hates all of us now because we don't take her control issues and anger outburst-No I would not take her in again if I had life to live over- I would have done what I finally had to do- put her in her own place with home health.

sometimes you dnt have a choice but to do what you half to do..i know its hard but i refuse to put my parents in a nursing home i worked in them and i know what goes on..now days the aides dnt really care their just their for the money thats why i refuse to go back into the nursing home they have no heart or compassion anymore. i do private care now and i enjoy it but sometime we have to do what we need to do if your father try and call the police,..i agree with the lady above call the S.R.S and they will back you up if he is not taking care of his self..you dnt want to boss him but you want to make sure he is cared for and safe ..if its possible call in a hm health service they will help with his care i dnt know how many hrs but here in ks we can do up to 24 hrs of care depending on the situation ...good luck

In my town we have a mediation organization that will sit down with family members and help them work out a situation that all can live with, so you may want to see if your town has this also.

Each situation is unique. You don't want to "rule over" your parent but you want him safe. You also don't want his care to consume you.
Best to let a professional determine whether or not he needs more assistance than you are able to provide. A full Geriatric Assessment is in order...IF you can get him to go. If not, then social services may be the only recourse.

Not all ALF are as bad as Fortress claims. I had to move my mother, against her wishes to an ALF for dementia. My only regret is that I didn't do it three years earlier. She is so much happier than she was living at home all by herself. Yes, it took a while before she settled in but in the long run it was completely worth it in her case. They take very good care of her and she spends her days doing activities with others. I have eaten their many times and the food has been exceptionally good. I have nothing but good things to say, I may just be lucky and found that one great place.......good luck

I would strongly urge that you contact someone in social services or the department of aging and explain your problem, as children you do have to protect yourself from elder neglect. Let them advise you of what can be done for your parent and yourself.

I think a person should be allowed to stay in their home and rot if they want to. I think it is awful to force someone into a nursing home. As soon as they go into Asst Living they go downhill fast. UNLESS they are the type who adjust easily and can enjoy the company of other people who are going downhill.
Even the best NH and Asst Living they begin giving drugs for "behavioral issues" and things go bad from there.

If your dad is not completely out of his mind, if he can make TV dinners, get his own glass of water, then let him die at home if possible. He has rights.

Sometimes when I read this stuff I am so glad I do not have kids that may force me out of my house when they think I am not living the good life anymore.

I'd rather die in one year at home than live for 10 years in Asst Living.

If your dad is driving you nuts with calls and needing help then he needs to know that is the reason he needs to move for your benefit. Then he will know he has to hire someone to come in and check on him once a day instead of bugging you guys.

If at all possible please give him wishes.

I don't care if I am sick and a little wacky when I get old, people should leave me alone. I have struggled my whole life to have a place when I get old and I don't care how dusty & dirty my place gets. I do not want to go to a nursing home (which is where asst living naturally ends up).

Why do people think life in an institution where others control you completely is better than a life at home with problems?

If I were the father I would be looking for an elder lawyer to protect me and my rights. A person has a right to live and die as they wish even if it isn't the safest.

The elders goal is not always to be "safe" and live forever. Sometimes it is just to get by day by day in their own home even if it is NATURALLY at a lower quality of life as they get older.

Unless they are a danger to someone else. I'd leave them alone.

If he cannot keep his bed clean from incontinence then he needs to hire someone to come in and do that for him.

My dad is in a NH and I wish he'd stayed home. His diet there is donuts, cinamon rolls, anything he wants for breakfast lunch dinner his health has gone way downhill and his sugar is always over a 250 now. At home he at small TV dinners, oatmeal, milk, coffee ... small things he could make, and his sugar was much better and he did his own insulin even though he was blind.

Now all the Asst Living , NH activities involve cookies, donuts etc... and it is bad... I mean how can they say NO to him when everyone else is eating cookies.. Plus he will eat 12 at a time. Oh well, whatever, it is his only pleasure now that he is institutionalized.

If I were you, I'd call your local Social Services and have them do a welfare check on your dad. Then you will have a third party behind you.

Other than that, you can go to court and try to get guardianship. It's slow and expensive, but sometimes it has to be done.

Carol