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to make sure that they will take care of me when all my money is gone and I am no longer able to take care of myself and need to be placed in an assisted living. What legal papers do I have to have drawn up?
Eeeeks, Joel, I just re-read an earlier post of your regarding your kids. I hadn't been aware of it (I even answered it) when I gave my answer below, and too late now to edit it.) PLEASE don't consider gifting money to them. There is no way to hold them legally accountable to return it for your care or to care for you. And in fact past history might mean that they would stint on your care if they had POA over you to do so, just in order to get your money. Hire a Fiduciary. There are excellent ones out there. In California I know some, and they do wonderful work. They average about 90.00 an hour to act for you, but once all the bills are set in stone, if you need someone to act for you it only takes an hour or so monthly to handle your estate. Enough time to leave stuff to the kids when you are dead and gone. You need all your savings to care for yourself. It can become very expensive, esp. if, God forbid, you were ever to need memory care. Your assets are YOURS and must stay in your care or in the care of those who must keep records and are beholden by law to give you good care. See an Elder Law Attorney to guide you; they often know Fiduciaries as they are appointed by the State to care for people who do not have trusted relatives.
Joel; just to back track a little bit: you can't force your children to take care of you in your old age. They have their own obligations to their children, their spouses and their own retirements.
If you have funds, that is WONDERFUL! Those funds need to be spent on your care.
You might contact your local Area Agency on Aging and ask for a "needs assessment" to see what you need and if you qualify for any assistance. Or maybe you need to start looking at Independent and Assisted Living places now so that you have a plan in place.
I seem to recall that you were suspicious of Continuing Care Retirement Communities because of the buy-in. Of course you need to make sure that the place is not about to go belly up or into receivership, but that should be relatively easy to do.
I think that moving to a community with activities and good on-site medical care might be the best thing right now. And please consider seeing a geriatric psychiatrist/psychologist to get you through the terrible loss of your dear wife.
The best thing you can do your children is use your assets to pay SOMEONE ELSE to take care of you. The cold hard truth is, even if you pay your children, you are still placing a huge burden on your children and forcing them to make unfair sacrifices. Caregiving is a difficult job and another sad reality is that many caregivers die before the person they are taking care of because of the toll caregiving takes on them!
you’ve previously posted and implied your son has no interest in taking care of you. Why do you think money will change that? All the money in the world can not compel him to take proper care of you. Have you told your children you expect them to take care of you? That’s what I seem to be getting out of this post, you want them to take care of you. There are really no legal papers you can draw up that will force them to take care of you. You can have POAs drawn up so that they can make decisions for you and hire caregivers. But you cannot legally force them to provide hands on care even if you pay them. It almost sounds like you want to use money to force them to do something they never agreed to do.
With the exception of Joel's post in which he was angry at political actions he felt figured in the death of his beloved wife, I hadn't read any of Joel's previous posts that I know of. Cali's information makes me feel different about the advice I gave to choose a child best willing and able to be POA. If there is any uncomfortable past, then that would preclude that I think. There are paid fiduciaries who do this work, and Joel could do well to consult one. My bro's ex-partner, still living, but with dementia and alcoholism, has a fiduciary who has been faithful and utterly wonderful. Once they get bills paying down it is not many hours a month they spend. My own experience is that a paid fiduciary in So Cal area runs around 90 to 100.00 an hour, with only an hour or two needed once things are in place. Joel is mentally very acute now, and this is the time to interview and put things in place for the future. Leave the kids out of it.
Please Joel, do not gift your money to your children. Unfortunately there is no guarantee they will be able to or want to look after you when you need it. It seems, from previous posts that your kids are reluctant to help you.
I am 82 and my children in their late forties and fifties and they would not accept such a gift from me and I would not give them the burden of caring for me.
Take time to sort out with an elder lawyer what your best course of action is to provide for your own care. Apparently you have good assets that can be used for that purpose. I am so sorry about the huge loss of your wife of so many years.
I just went back to your earlier posts. Your first one was concerning a son not seeming to care about you. Then in May you post that your wife had died and you were wondering how you should handle your assets when it came to your children. And there were few others where you were having trouble just dealing with this COVID and the way things were being handled.
I am 70 so probably close to your age. Are your children pressuring you to gift money now instead of later? Its only been 3 months or so since your wife's death. I understand the urgency of getting your ducks in a row but so much has happened to you with the virus and the loss of your wife, I think you need someone impartial to talk to. Its not making sure your children get something, its making sure your future is secure.
Normally its said to wait a year after a spouse dies to making any major changes. But, as we age, we may not have a year to decide. Please, before you make any plans with your children in mind, see an estate planner or an elder care lawyer to help. There are so many No Nos when it comes to Medicaid. At this point, don't worry about your children, worry about you. You raised them, they are now independent making good or bad decisions. Its not up to you, at this time of your life, to make sure they are financially set. Or, that their kids are. My DH and I have always done for ourselves. Our parents loved us, gave us a roof over our heads, clothes on our backs and fed us. We both worked for any extras we needed. My DH put himself thru college with little help from his parents. We have never needed to borrow from our parents. Everything we have, we worked for. Same with my girls.
So please take the time to find someone to help you make the right decisions. Call Office of Aging to see if they can help point you in the right direction.
The way I read this (and I read it more than once) is that you want to gift your children money now and by doing so, when you need it they will then have to pay for your AL?
I don't think any kind of contract can bind anyone to something like this. And I would be surprised that any lawyer would draw one up and the children agree to it. One reason, when you gift money its just that, a gift. There is no obligation to pay it back monetarily or in kind. There is no guarantee that in, lets say, 10 years your children will be able to afford to pay for your care in an AL. Things can change overnight. Loss of jobs. Death. Just self-centered kids.
My opinion, keep your money. Put it in CDs or an IRA. Investing is a little rocky right now. Maybe talk to an estate planner. Then if you need an AL you have the money put aside. Do not rely on others for your care. What I see happening if you gift it away, that your children will not be able to afford an AL (cost can be 5k to 10k a month) and you will end up on Medicaid in a Longterm facility sharing a room with someone else.
Children are not entitled to parents money, not even after death. My girls know any money we have invested will go to our care. We have helped, but also have been paid back. It will be nice if we can leave our girls something but they don't expect it.
If you want to secure your future, do not lend or gift money you can't afford to do. If you want that nice AL, then hold on to your money. Don't expect your children to hold up their end of the bargain.
And, there is that 5 yr look back, in some states, where any kind of gifting scan effect your ability to receive Medicaid if needed.
Joel, this is a difficult question that you should ONLY trust a good Elder Law Attorney in your State to answer. Many think that "gifting" to their children will protect their assets. It will not at all. If you give money to your children how likely are they to have it (it could be put into a home Mortgage) when you need it, and how likely are they to agree to what the cost of assisted living is (3,000 minimal if you are fairly self-caring, and up to 10,000 without memory care per month). I am uncertain if you have long been on the forum, but some of the saddest stories here are those in which an elder gifted money to children, and there was none when they needed it, despite promises to the contrary. If you have money the best thing you can do now is keep it SAFE, and keep it in your name. Do a will (or trust if you have property) with a good Trust and Estate Lawyer, choose the child you trust most and feel most comfortable with ability of to act as DPOA to care for you when you are unable to make decisions. My advice would be NEVER to do this. I have seen many elders whose kids swore on the bible to care for them until death. When it came down to it it was not that the kids didn't love them, it was that they couldn't care for them for any number of reasons. See an attorney. Watch annuities and other things that can make it difficult to get care when you need it. Your money in these times isn't going to GROW a whole lot; but KEEP IT SAFE.
Your question is confusing. You want to give children your money so they will take care of you? What guarantee do you have?
Instead, if one of the children is interested in caring for you get a care agreement prepared, a contract. See an elder law attorney to prepare that agreement, then pay child, legally, for care that they provide.
If one of the kids is not interested in caring for you, then your money is only for your care. If you give money or assets away, and you at some point need medicaid, you will not be eligible for medicaid benefits due to the gifting.
Do you have other documents, powers of attorney and such, prepared?
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
PLEASE don't consider gifting money to them. There is no way to hold them legally accountable to return it for your care or to care for you. And in fact past history might mean that they would stint on your care if they had POA over you to do so, just in order to get your money.
Hire a Fiduciary. There are excellent ones out there. In California I know some, and they do wonderful work. They average about 90.00 an hour to act for you, but once all the bills are set in stone, if you need someone to act for you it only takes an hour or so monthly to handle your estate. Enough time to leave stuff to the kids when you are dead and gone. You need all your savings to care for yourself. It can become very expensive, esp. if, God forbid, you were ever to need memory care. Your assets are YOURS and must stay in your care or in the care of those who must keep records and are beholden by law to give you good care. See an Elder Law Attorney to guide you; they often know Fiduciaries as they are appointed by the State to care for people who do not have trusted relatives.
If you have funds, that is WONDERFUL! Those funds need to be spent on your care.
You might contact your local Area Agency on Aging and ask for a "needs assessment" to see what you need and if you qualify for any assistance. Or maybe you need to start looking at Independent and Assisted Living places now so that you have a plan in place.
I seem to recall that you were suspicious of Continuing Care Retirement Communities because of the buy-in. Of course you need to make sure that the place is not about to go belly up or into receivership, but that should be relatively easy to do.
I think that moving to a community with activities and good on-site medical care might be the best thing right now. And please consider seeing a geriatric psychiatrist/psychologist to get you through the terrible loss of your dear wife.
((((((hugs)))))))
placing a huge burden on your children and forcing them to make unfair sacrifices. Caregiving is a difficult job and another sad reality is that many caregivers die before the person they are taking care of because of the toll caregiving takes on them!
you’ve previously posted and implied your son has no interest in taking care of you. Why do you think money will change that? All the money in the world can not compel him to take proper care of you. Have you told your children you expect them to take care of you? That’s what I seem to be getting out of this post, you want them to take care of you. There are really no legal papers you can draw up that will force them to take care of you. You can have POAs drawn up so that they can make decisions for you and hire caregivers. But you cannot legally force them to provide hands on care even if you pay them. It almost sounds like you want to use money to force them to do something they never agreed to do.
I am 82 and my children in their late forties and fifties and they would not accept such a gift from me and I would not give them the burden of caring for me.
Take time to sort out with an elder lawyer what your best course of action is to provide for your own care. Apparently you have good assets that can be used for that purpose. I am so sorry about the huge loss of your wife of so many years.
Joel,
I just went back to your earlier posts. Your first one was concerning a son not seeming to care about you. Then in May you post that your wife had died and you were wondering how you should handle your assets when it came to your children. And there were few others where you were having trouble just dealing with this COVID and the way things were being handled.
I am 70 so probably close to your age. Are your children pressuring you to gift money now instead of later? Its only been 3 months or so since your wife's death. I understand the urgency of getting your ducks in a row but so much has happened to you with the virus and the loss of your wife, I think you need someone impartial to talk to. Its not making sure your children get something, its making sure your future is secure.
Normally its said to wait a year after a spouse dies to making any major changes. But, as we age, we may not have a year to decide. Please, before you make any plans with your children in mind, see an estate planner or an elder care lawyer to help. There are so many No Nos when it comes to Medicaid. At this point, don't worry about your children, worry about you. You raised them, they are now independent making good or bad decisions. Its not up to you, at this time of your life, to make sure they are financially set. Or, that their kids are. My DH and I have always done for ourselves. Our parents loved us, gave us a roof over our heads, clothes on our backs and fed us. We both worked for any extras we needed. My DH put himself thru college with little help from his parents. We have never needed to borrow from our parents. Everything we have, we worked for. Same with my girls.
So please take the time to find someone to help you make the right decisions. Call Office of Aging to see if they can help point you in the right direction.
I don't think any kind of contract can bind anyone to something like this. And I would be surprised that any lawyer would draw one up and the children agree to it. One reason, when you gift money its just that, a gift. There is no obligation to pay it back monetarily or in kind. There is no guarantee that in, lets say, 10 years your children will be able to afford to pay for your care in an AL. Things can change overnight. Loss of jobs. Death. Just self-centered kids.
My opinion, keep your money. Put it in CDs or an IRA. Investing is a little rocky right now. Maybe talk to an estate planner. Then if you need an AL you have the money put aside. Do not rely on others for your care. What I see happening if you gift it away, that your children will not be able to afford an AL (cost can be 5k to 10k a month) and you will end up on Medicaid in a Longterm facility sharing a room with someone else.
Children are not entitled to parents money, not even after death. My girls know any money we have invested will go to our care. We have helped, but also have been paid back. It will be nice if we can leave our girls something but they don't expect it.
If you want to secure your future, do not lend or gift money you can't afford to do. If you want that nice AL, then hold on to your money. Don't expect your children to hold up their end of the bargain.
And, there is that 5 yr look back, in some states, where any kind of gifting scan effect your ability to receive Medicaid if needed.
If you have money the best thing you can do now is keep it SAFE, and keep it in your name. Do a will (or trust if you have property) with a good Trust and Estate Lawyer, choose the child you trust most and feel most comfortable with ability of to act as DPOA to care for you when you are unable to make decisions.
My advice would be NEVER to do this. I have seen many elders whose kids swore on the bible to care for them until death. When it came down to it it was not that the kids didn't love them, it was that they couldn't care for them for any number of reasons.
See an attorney. Watch annuities and other things that can make it difficult to get care when you need it. Your money in these times isn't going to GROW a whole lot; but KEEP IT SAFE.
Instead, if one of the children is interested in caring for you get a care agreement prepared, a contract. See an elder law attorney to prepare that agreement, then pay child, legally, for care that they provide.
If one of the kids is not interested in caring for you, then your money is only for your care. If you give money or assets away, and you at some point need medicaid, you will not be eligible for medicaid benefits due to the gifting.
Do you have other documents, powers of attorney and such, prepared?
DO not give away any of your assets!!!