What words and phrases have you found helpful in getting your parent to cooperate? Today we talk with FIL about his $$$burn rate$$$.
My FIL is a widower and lives in independent living in the same unit he shared with his wife. The unit is ridiculously expensive for one person. And FIL also pays for 2 shifts of caregivers and it's questionable that he needs them as much as they come.
FIL is burning through his money at an eye watering pace. My husband is POA (including when MIL was alive), manages everything, has done an amazing job of it, and at great personal cost in both time and energy. It's also cost us money in time away from working and earning money.
My FIL is uncooperative, dramatic, negative, and self absorbed. Last month, FIL dumped a whole bunch of negativity on my husband and hubby had had enough. Together, we reviewed FIL's finances. Bottom line: FIL must cut expenses, with biggest savings coming from downsizing to a smaller unit.
Because FIL cannot manage his affairs himself any longer, I feel that my husband is well within his rights to force his dad to make a choice: cooperate or hire a professional POA. Hubby and I are also making plans to return to our hometown in the next year or two because it is clear to both of us that FIL may live another 10+ years.
All that said, what words and phrases have you used that have gotten you results? Words of advice and wisdom in how to run this meeting with FIL will be greatly appreciated!!!
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Also, not sure what a professional PoA is except maybe an elder attorney? You can't hire a PoA for someone else unless you can prove that person is not of sound mind. Is your hubby currently the PoA? If so, he can resign the authority, but not sure I would do this. Your hubby is reacting to your dad as if he's not a senior citizen you *might* have the beginnings of dementia. He should take him to his next doc appointment and have him discretely tested (docs do this all the time). This will tell you a lot more and inform your next steps with the situation.
If your DH has his dad's financial PoA he has power to change the spending rate, but he may not get his dad's blessing. Your DH having an adjusted mindset to what is going on with his dad will be crucial in how he deals with him and the situation.
If you do eventually get to move him, please have it be into a senior community with continuity of care (from AL to MC to Hospice) so that he won't have a big upheaval later in his years when it is really unsettling to him (and you and hubby!). And depending on how it went prior, DH might want to move him to a care community close to him, as it will be easier. No perfect answers, but good luck!
Instead, make it about you and start with "I"..... "I'm worried about you", "I want you to be able to live comfortably for a long time", "I really love you and I need to voice my concerns". "I'm willing to help do whatever it takes to make the rest of your life as good as it can be." "I'm concerned that your goals and actions are not matching up and I'd like to help you". These might make him a bit more open to at least have a conversation.
Everyone is so right, there is no reasoning with dementia, so these may not work. But if there is still a bit of reality in your FIL, these will be your best bet. Good luck!
Has DH talked to the lawyer who drew up the POA about what rights this gives him?
If DH is in charge of FIL's money, he needs to cheerfully announce to FIL, "next month you'll be moving to unit 4 H; that's what you can afford right now".
If FIL objects, DH pushes back, gently, once and says, "Dad, you can't afford to live in this apartment anymore. Sorry".
If FIL makes a fuss, DH resigns POA and walks away from management. He then visits as a loving son and says. "sorry dad, that got taken out of my hands".
There is no reasoning with dementia.
We don’t have diagnosis yet, but Mom is definitely uncooperative, negative and self absorbed, as your FIL is, NY. Money-wise, each month she gifts a large organization since Dad died, and gets a visit once in a while from them too. She is unable to tip at restaurant via %, and tips ‘how she feels’ after the meal.
Mom isn’t burning $$$ but when asked to elaborate, she dismisses my concerns with she ‘just wants to do it that way’. She’s unconcerned because she’ll ‘be okay’.
There’s coming a time when her reverse mortgage won’t be enough, I fear.
Thanks for the question, NY. Hope you’ll keep us posted.
All of that leaves it with it still being Dad's choice. And in fact, if you are freed from this, then I think that is almost just as well. You cannot help those who will not be helped. Dad will perhaps listen to a Lawyer who will tell him the rate of hemorrhage of the money will leave Dad in a Nursing Home with a roommate he may not care for.
You can only do so much and it is so clear you have tried everything.
Thank you for your answers. To answer your questions:
Yes, hubby has shown his fathers the numbers in black and white and yes, FIL was always bad with money, never looking at price tags, always just paying the bills without considering them. He's a spendthrift.
No, hubby has not talked to the elder law attorney who drew up the papers. I think that's a great suggestion.
Thank you for answering. It makes me feel like I am being reasonable. I do feel that hubby has been eminently reasonable in trying to deal with his dad and that it's reached the point of "do this or I'm out" because it's taking such a toll on my husband.
I love you all. Really. Knowing that I can come here for advice is priceless to me.
I don’t see any other way than to take the issue head on as diplomatically as possible. If FIL refuses then do what you have to do.
I had to force my folks into assited living. Took the phone away. And the car. Dad had no short term memory at the time and could be diverted. Mom was livid but not competent enough to do anything about it. That was the reality for us. Maybe for you also now.
Elders will get hurt feelings, mad etc as we take measures to care for and protect them. It can’t be helped. Just doing our job as best we can.
Her dad deferred to her older brother and my SIL pushed back HARD.
I think your DH needs to push back. You can encourage him by telling him that he should tell his dad that you won't put up with this.
This old school stuff should not be pussy- footed around.
"We're in America, Dad. These Amerian women do'nt do it this way" I'll have to walk away from you".
My sister and I located a lovely, but much less expensive IL for our parents when they were around 90, after their current facility had a 9% rate increase one year. I knew their savings wouldn't be sufficient to cover expenses for an additional ten years (both of them had parents who had lived well into their 90s.)
In our case, we arranged the moving van for first thing in the morning. We had parents stay at sister's house while my brother and I arranged everything at their new apartment. Clothes were hung in the closets, toothbrushes, towels, and toiletries in place in the bathroom, pictures hung, lamps plugged in, bed made, dishes in cupboards, coffee maker on counter, etc.
We didn't get everything unpacked that day (I returned the following days to finish emptying boxes and restock the frig.) But our parents walked into a very attractive, familiar-looking apartment that evening.
Our parents adjusted very well, (although neither had more than MCI at the time.) They and we kids were greatly relieved to no longer worry about their money running out. And their savings did make it (though just barely!) until Mom died at age 99.
I don't envy what you're facing. Do let us know how you decide to handle this.
Good luck!!
It only goes in one direction. Moving a person with diagnosed dementia from Independent Living with Caregivers to a regular apartment complex with part time caregivers is moving him to a less supportive environment.
Has his doctor weighed in on the appropriateness of this move? Are there indications that he needs LESS or DIFFERENT care than the IL environment provides? Off the top of my head, I'd say if he needs private caregivers in IL, that is an indication that he needs a HIGHER level of service.
Have you thought about suggesting to DH and BIL that they hire, temporarily a Geriatric Care manager to assess FIL's needs, agree to abide by her/his recommendation and sign on for that person to explain to FIL what his options are?
There is too much attention being paid to the preserving of FIL's frail ego going on in this family for anyone to make a good decision.
Yes, he has been diagnosed with mild dementia/cognitive decline and no, his doctor has not been consulted, and I think consulting him is a good idea.
FIL's decline has become worse since MIL died, and I don't understand why the "boys" believe that he's not going to get much worse. He already has private aides to help him and I don't want to spend my time coordinating aides if one wants vacation or quits or whatever. And I've told hubby that.
It never occurred to me that *we* needed a Geriatric Care Manager for this situation that, to me, seemed like something too small for a professional to want to handle. I will suggest it to hubby.