When the end comes how do you handle an estranged sibling?

Micalost, do the extended family members really know how you feel? I can understand that nobody wanted to make a scene at your father's funeral, I can even understand them feeling she has a right to know and attend if she chooses, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are picking her over you. Maybe when the time comes you can enlist their help in keeping her away from you (tell them you'll poke her eyes out if she gets within reach)... don't let her chase you away from your rightful place as chief mourner.

Mica, I (thankfully!) come from a very normal and close family, but imagine my utter surprise and disgust, when I married into the most Dysfunctional family Ever!

I was So sheltered growing up, that I never knew that such family strife even existed. I had heard the word, but never even really knew what Narcissism meant, until I happened upon this forum, and the description fit my FIL (who happened to live with my husband and I, now deceased since 11/17, for over 13 years) to a tee! The havoc his NPD Father and Manipulative Mother caused their family, has destroyed any hope that my husband can ever have any sort of relationship with his 2 siblings, even though he has tried, every which way possible.

When I first started dating (85') and then married my husband, the family seemed nice enough, of course my husband was the baby of the family, the Golden Child, and in the end, the Only one who was ever there for his parents, right til the end. Both of his parents only ever treated me with kindness. 

Over the course of our 33 year relationship, I have witnessed both my husbands brother and sister take Extreme financial advantage of their parents to the tune of Tens of Thousands of Dollars each, but neither Ever gave anything back to them in the ways relationship, emotional, mental, time, enjoyment, let alone repayment, it was always lie and blackmail, and take, take, take! 

It wasn't until I learned more about Dysfunctional families and Narcissistic personality disorder, that Any of it made any sense to me, even my husband, who his Whole life, had been ruled by his Father through Fear, Obligation and Guilt, and by his mother through lies, manipulation and cover ups, didn't fully grasp what had happened throughout his Whole Life!

It has taken Years for all of this to unfold, to become apparent, and when my FIL came to live with us after his wife passed away (another FOG tactic), all the skeletons that were buried in the big trunk out in our storage shed, came back to life, and I was able to piece together how things went drastically wrong in this Screwed Up Family.

For So Many Years, I blamed my husband's siblings for making things so messed up, when in fact (in this situation) it was the parents, who favored one child over another, pitted siblings against one another, bought off, bribed, threatened, changed their Wills, cutting one or the other out, only to reinstate them, lied and manipulated this family, that there is no way that this family (even now that both parents are dead) can ever be put back together again.

My husbands older (1/2) sister is an active raging alcoholic, with NPD, and under/non treated bipolar disease, manipulator and Liar, who secretly racked up over 86 thousand dollars worth of CC debt in her mothers name (we found the reciepts!), not to mention hundreds of thousands in cash (wire transfers with reciepts) freely given to her by her Mother, all in the name of saving her from herself (can you say ENABLING??!), and his older (by 10 months) brother is a 11X married/divorced, Chister, Cheater, and Pathological Liar, who has financially obliterated both his parents, and So many other innocent people, its disgusting!

Leave it to say that when their Father lay dying in our home on Hospice care, neither one of them could be bothered to visit him, send him a card or flowers, or give him a call, or even come to a funeral (so we didn't have one), as there was no longer any way to get more money from him, as my husband as his POA, had locked that door tight 13 years prior, when he moved in with us.

Even after FIL did pass, there was no real show of appreciation for the many years that we took care of their parents, for keeping them safe and cared for, nothing! After FIL passed and my husband sorted out FIL's estate, he even flew to where they lived, to personally deliver their inheritance checks, my husband trying to salvage what might be left of any relationship, but doors were essentially shut in his face, too many years of parental sabtoge had taken place from Early Childhood, so it is what it is.

So in our circumstances, in the end, when both of his parents died, my husband did everything right, he didn't close off communications Ever, but in fact encouraged it, not wanting them to feel regret that they didn't have the opportunity to say their peace and their goodbyes, he tried to reestablish ongoing relations with them, but to no avail, they are both to mired in their own dysfunction and mental health issues.

Many years ago, my husband told me that one of the many reason why he was so attracted to me in the first place, was my Big Happy British Family, and now I know why, as his own family was So Messed Up, that it gave him a place where he could let his guard down, and enjoy what a Normal Loving and Trusting family truly feels like. I'm glad that I have been able to provide that for him, or else he probably would have turned out just as F'd up as his siblings.

In the end, you just have to do what feels right for you, your Soul, and find a way that you don't have to live in regret, as it only eats you up inside. For now, the doors are closed on both ends, my husband has done his best by his parents and his siblings, so the ball is in their court, should they ever wish to have anything to do with us. And No Reaching out for support of Any kind either, we've done our part, and Only ever need to see to the wellbeing of our own grown kids and Grandkids, that ship has definitely sailed!

If sibling has NOT visited or called in 3 years - maybe they're feeling a little guilty for what they did and can not face you?

I say just continue as you please and take care of what your mom needs.

someone who stays "hidden out" doesn't deserve a special notice when the time comes.

stealing from parent if true like you say.....then I wouldn't really care what they thought. if you are doing all the "right" things. then carry on.....

Someone who steals 80k from a parent doesn't have a conscious or would have done it in the first place. They can justify their actions to the point you bend to their side. They are sociopaths.

Saying that, when Mom passes go with your plans. Contact the sibling by phone or email. Make it short and sweet. Mom died on such and such date. I will be taking her ashes to such and such place and they will be interned with Gma. If you would like to attend the internment will be at...place, date and time. Sign you name. Thats all you owe her. If she shows up just keep your cool. If she says anything about an inheritance tell her you will contact her, by letter, when the will is probated. Tell her its not an overnight thing it could take a year or more. You may luck out and she won't show up. Be the better person but know that you don't ever have to have a relationship with her. If Mom has left her anything, give it to her. I know, not fair, but if you don't she will just cause problems. You want her gone.

after seeing all the bank statements and canceled checks and hearing what my lawyer said
they "just couldnt send her to jail " and i had a mental breakdown because I have never encountered betrayal like what she did. It is extremely unhealthy for me to think upon this person ( breathing heavily as i type here about it- Dad and i had plans for that money for grandkids)
I did / do have a protector and he whisked me away in the car that day as i had asked him to with no questions asked as to etiquette.
I am going to discuss what to do with the other siblings. I will not contact the person and i cannot see her for my own health as i have still not recovered. i'm sure the others will do that.
there is no money because I saved it to pay for residence in a good memorycare place for mom and now it is all gone and shes on title 19.
thanks everyone for listening...

I fully expect that if my mother ever passes away, I will probably not speak to at least 2 of my siblings again. Not by choice, but simply, because they don't care and never did and never will.

When I happened to mention this to my son--he was appalled. How could this be? Trying to get him to understand the dynamics of 62 years of life with her and them--there's really no animosity, I simply have nothing to do with them. Not trying to punish them, I just don't care.
I think my family is more "normal" in this than you'd like to think.

Just don't tell any of them when you are having her placed. Have your own privet ceremony. If they want a service they can do their own memorial service.

I come from a large family, that is functional, but my 2nd brother was a momma baby. Interestingly enough, he has visited my mom in the memory care unit 2x /5years by one of siblings taking there. His wife had died at 44, and he was there, but after that he has not gone to other close family member funerals. on the other-hand I too had a very similar experience to Staceyb. What I have learned through my experiences, is you need to treat them, in a manner that you have no regrets. My husband and I have attempted to allow for healing, both personal and relational. Although that is probably unlikely, as my SIL said her childhood formed her to make bad choices as an adult and she will not be at peace until she dies. I wish for you to find a solution you can feel good about in the years to come.

May I share that, respectfully, I disagree with JoAnn29 on several points, mainly owing your sibling anything, much less notification of "when." If you plan a cremation, perhaps the facility you choose to do that can take care of notifications - after the event. Or any sort of attorney you may be working with. When you talk with the other siblings, maybe you can suggest your notifying one who will then take the burden of notifying the others. With the burden you are already carrying, you are jeopardizing your own health, though flipping that switch in the other direction is easier said than done, I know. Take care of yourself.

My sister claims to have been sexually molested by my stepfather. He never laid a hand on me, but I was older and left for college about a year after my mother and stepfather were married. My sister was 14 at the time. My mother was totally dependent on him financially, and this was in the day when you didn't talk about "these things" (early 1960s). My sister left home at 18 and never even returned to visit any of us, and has made it known that I am not welcome in her home. I never liked my stepfather much, but I did not want to desert my mother, and I was the one who was there for her when she died. Unfortunately, she did not leave anything to my sister, all to me. I sold her house and sent half the proceeds to my sister, without even a thank you. My sister is married to a physician and they have one child, a daughter that was tossed out to make her own way at 18. I took her in and saw that she got through college. My sister is of course even more angry about that. I don't expect her to come to my funeral!

Id say notify sib of sickness or death so neither you or anyone can blame you but make sure you proect yourself from any actions by them.

Hi micalost, I also have estranged siblings, 3 out of 5 kids. It can be stressful but what I have done in the last 5 yrs is to send a text message every few months with updates on our mom who has advanced Parkinson's & Dementia. It is their choice to respond or visit mom. It took me a very long time to realize I can only control my actions and not to react to their actions, or in this case lack of. Time goes by so very fast....Do you really want to spend it worked up about things you have no control of? I got to the point that my time & life was more important. Please, for your sanity take your frustration about your sibling & put it towards positive healthily energy for you. It's hard, but if I can do it I'm sure you can too ❤

This is in reference to Arleeda. I would never have sent her half of anything.
As, you see, she kicked her own daughter out of the house at 18, and now the costs to feed, clothe and educate this young woman is on you.
I would have taken that money, and maybe put it in a trust for your niece. Also, I am surprised your sister, as she got older didn't seek out professional help.
As to the original poster, I would just either text them both, give the details, and if they show up or not, you did the right thing. I just know this would, down the line, bother you if you didn't tell them.
God bless you.

If I were in that situation, I would not feel the need to notify them of anything. If you and they have not been in contact, and they have not been in contact with the LO, then I say, let them find out or not on their own. And go on with my own life.

I wouldn't bother contacting anyone who hasn't bothered to contact your mom or you all along. For all they know, she is already gone! If they were interested in anything other than inheritance, they would have visited or found a way to be in contact. I have thought about that for my own mother. She has now lived in CA with my brother for over a year but all her friends and family are still where I live. Every time I have gone to a family event or run into one of her friends, they ask about her and I always tell them to call her as she would appreciate it. We actually used an OOMA box so she could take her same phone # to CA with her...I talk with her all the time on that #, so no one has the excuse that they don't have her #. Yet, with the exception of one of her nieces and one of her friends, NO ONE has called her even once. She has over 50 nieces and nephews, plus all their kids ( mom was one of 12 kids). She was president of the Women's club for over 8 years in her town, was a leader in the women of the moose, and lived in the same neighborhood for 50 years. But I guess out of sight out of mind. So when her time comes, only that one friend and one niece will be notified. There will be a small, private ceremony for us and my brother and that will be it. She always said she doesn't want people visiting her or sending flowers when she is dead. And I agree with that. If they don't have time for us when we are alive, then holding a big wake and funeral so THEY can get rid of their guilt is not on my agenda. In fact, I actually hate wakes and funerals...too many people think it's a big party and a chance for everyone to get together and catch up. NOT! I Actually went to one for a younger person last year and people we tailgating in the funeral parking lot. No lie! I just about lost it! Totally disrespectful, and from that time on, if there is one to attend, I go, pay my respects to the deceased and their family and leave. I hope my comments help and I totally understand your feelings about not wanting to see an absentee sibling. So don't.

I think she has the right to come to the funeral. But you don't have to engage with her, just ignore her.

I've worried about this a lot in the past, but we are all getting along now. That doesn't mean the other shoe won't drop. A family get together is never the right place to air dirty laundry or expect others to take sides. A family has common memories and should be able to enjoy them.

I just wanted to say that I’m going through the same thing right now I have never been so angry at anyone as I have been with them thank you I don’t feel so all alone anymore

I've been through situations like this more than once. Estranged relatives in general tend to pop up and make things overly complicated toward end of life or shortly after death. What I have learned is that it's a good idea to notify them little by little over a few months time if you can. A short message, something like, "hey it's been a long time, I know ya'll haven't been real close with mom since the stuff with dad went down but she's still your mom so I wanted to let you know mom isn't doing so good right now." etc. Something via email, text or Facebook messenger allows you a digital, legally admissible in court "paper" trail and helps you think about your answers carefully before hitting send. Basically, I let them know I thought of them and wanted to provide a brief update of our loved ones situation. If there is any estate to be had they want their "fair share". Sometimes they feel guilty about mistreatment or neglect of the one you're caring for. That guilt is usually played out as drama filled rants and anger against those who are caring for the person they neglected. I have learned that it's easier to spread the drama out over time than to have them show up at the funeral ready to fight. You have to do what's best for you and your loved one, my way works for us but it may not fit your situation. I know how hard this is for the entire family.

I come from a large family. I have 5 brothers, and 1 sister (1 is deceased). When the house we lived in Mom, Dad, and me became unhealthy to live in, it was an old uninsulated house without central heat, we had to move. The temperatures were going to reach the 30ies and Mom had just come out of the hospital with heart failure. Long story short, we moved into a senior home apartment. It was only 2 or 3 miles from where we lived before. They knew Mom's health issues, and except for 1 brother who called weekly and helped out frequently, the rest visited rarely. 1 brother lived in California, but he actually came in October 2017 to visit her, it would be their last visit. Mom passed in February 2018. While my Dad and I were waiting for the ambulance, we started calling the others. I had helped my parents pre-plan some of the funeral needs, but not all. I explained that IF they wanted a full funeral they would need to chip in. They did, and we maintained a civil front. My Mom has been dead now for 5 months now, and there are some siblings I don't expect to hear or see again. My Dad broke his hip in April and he doesn't get calls or visits. The only one hurt by this is my Dad. I took care of Mom and I can hold my head high. My siblings will have to live with what the did or didn't do. My 1 brother who continues to help my dad and me is the best and and I thank the stars that he remembers that Mom and Dad made him who he is.

You don't have to like the treatment your sibling has given you and your mom. You know and so does your family, what you have done for your mother. But don't allow her to push you out. Family that want to pay their respects and support you will be there.

For your own peace of mind, preparing mentally and psychologically ahead of time realizing that the only person you can change is YOU. Practicing this by doing meditation exercises, visualizing yourself in a 'safety bubble of love" however you see or express this - for you to be calm and maintain a sense of equanimity, so when you are actually there - facing them or in the same room, you will feel 'peace and calm within' - practice seeing the scenario in your mind to prepare. This is a good practice to do for any unpleasant or triggering situation. If you can muster up a step further, practice forgiveness - as forgiveness is for YOU to feel inner peace. It has little or nothing to do with the person you are focusing forgiveness upon. If they benefit, all the better for their conscious evolving. While I did not read all the details, if there are legal or will issues, hopefully you can get all that resolved beforehand or have a legal rep or 'good' sibling speak on your behalf.

Micalost and Staceyb I can relate to you both so much! My MIL passed last 4th of July and although I know my husband and his brother have never really gotten along I was not prepared for the vicious, childish, inappropriate, ugly behavior from his brother. I had surgery the day before she passed and although she was in hospital and obviously not going to make it my husband left her side to come home and check on me (we live over an hour away from where she was). My husband had just made it home and approx 30 minutes later we got the call that she had passed. My husband turned around and went to be with his family especially his father. My BIL had been there at the time with my FIL and SIL and a niece. My FIL was very angry and said that when the minister was there to bless my MIL’s body with my SIL and a niece there my BIL took him by the arm and said “Dad we need to go straight to the bank tomorrow and put my name on everything so my brother (my husband) can’t steal all your money” my poor MIL had just died - his mother - and that is her son’s first thought? Mind you my FIL just lost his wife of 60 plus years and has Alzheimer’s (nobody knew how bad until after my MIL died). Now my FIL wants nothing to do with my BIL but can’t always remember why just that he’s a bad son! My niece who is a chip off the BIL block posted on FACEBOOK that her grandma had died before any of the family was notified! My kids were devastated by that! We have relatives in Ireland that found out that way as well! The joke was on my BIL tho cuz my husband was named executor of the estate, DPOA for both parents and he is already on their bank accounts so theBIL got so mad that he would not speak to anyone. I planned the memorial asking for help, who wanted to speak, what they wanted to do etc and the BIL was MIA for the 12 days it took to plan and execute the service as there was no church involved and she wanted a happy celebration not a mournful one. Everyone was asked to not wear black as she wanted happy! BIL shows up and in black and grabs FIL by the arm and sits him with his family and acts like the dutiful son while he did not lift one finger to help. We ended up taking FIL into our home when it became apparent the the dementia he had was more serious and he ended up in hospital after collapsing at a neighbors house thinking it was his own home. Got DX of Alzheimer’s shortly thereafter and tried to speak with BIL to try to start fresh and just let bygones and hurt go but he was such an ass on the phone laughing at us that we had to take FIL in and talking about bank accounts and money and saying the reason he never responded to any of my texts or calls to him re the memorial was because he was mad at my husband....I asked him if he was 12? Anyhow the Che call ended with me hanging up on him telling him that I thought maybe we could try to work it out but obviously not cuz he was a (not nice word). Still I kept him apprised as I did with his kids as well of selling the house and that if they wanted anything from the house they needed to get it (mind you this was almost a year after MIL passed and zero calls to his father and zero visits from any family besides ours), I got no response until a week later from the niece stating she wants her family pictures, a crystal sailboat that is in the will, and a necklace for her and her sister - and then the best “after that I no longer care to have a relationship with you, your husband, or his children and if you don’t know why think harder”! I was furious but I still packed their pics and the sailboat up and got it to the BIL’s work and now I will never speak to them again. I am done but they still think they should be notified when my FIL goes to AL or dies. I am sure they will find out but why would they care when the offer to call or visit has been on the table for over a year and not once did any of them care to see him. They will not be on the list of visitors as they will just confuse my FIL he doesn’t know my kids names half the time and he sees them all the time...he wouldn’t know them when it gets to the point of AL!

Sorry that was long but I was wanting to post that for so long. The stress of dealing with my FIL’s illness, my husband’s stress that I fear will cause a heart attack and the anger I have toward those people is killing me too! I just can’t understand family acting like that...especially when the BIL says he is richer than his dad and doesn’t care about the money - really cuz I am sure he will be the first one with his hand out and if he could contest he would but there is a clause in the will that says anyone who contests it will forfeit their inheritance! My MIL knew her oldest son well! Narcissistic ass that he is! He’s just butt hurt he is not in control. If he only knew how hard it is taking care of someone in Dad’s condition he should be kissing our feet for taking this all on!

Well the only advice I can offer don't let that sibling know your mother's time is near. I had some of my own siblings home the week before my mother died and it was horrible. They had there own agenda and my father choose not to do his job as the health care sorggant. So me as the caretaker had too try her best. To impress upon the visitors that they needed to leave so I can take care of my mom. Even the hospice nurses said the visit was too much for my late mother.

I have wondered the same question Michalost. When the time comes, how will I handle the pain and stress of Mom’s death along with facing the sibling who hasn’t been around at all even though she lives 40minutes away? I am so angry with how she hurt our mother by dropping out. I feel your fury that your sister STOLE from your mom! I despise your sister for that. Micha, you must find a way, some way to “get past” this for your own health - for your own peace. I suggest therapy. I feel sorry for your thieving sister who because of her actions lost precious time with her mother.

micalost: If the lawyer said "just couldn't send her to jail," I'll assume it wasn't done through a court of law. If you wanted to recoup the $8oK, that is the due process. Notify the estranged sibling and keep is simple when the death occurs.

My brother was missing the whole time my Dad and Mom needed full time care. Whenever I called....all he wanted to know was....will I send him money. Really? Why would I deplete their bank account for you?

When Dad died..brother showed up....wanting money. Threatened me (POA and executor) with a lawsuit to overturn my dads will. He left everything to Mom.

Mom was very clear with me......nothing was to go to my brother. She changed everything ... and then put my name as POD on everything.

When Mom died....not a word from brother. No card. No flowers. Then, the day after the funeral...he wanted money.

I gave him all my father's jewelry, and half of one account. I just didn't think it was fair to have it left to me to tell him his own Mom had disowned him .... I know he deserved it.... but, I could not be the one to deliver that message.

In the years after the loss of your parents....it is better to know you took the high road. No regrets

Check the rules on cremation in you state, if there is more than one sibling there must be two signatures to sign off on it, at least that’s the rule in Ohio.
Because of this rule it brought the vultures out of the woodwork and made for a miserable memorial. Even though they cut Mom from their lives for over 10 years, while I did everything.
God bless and good luck.

I have instructed my husband, if I die before him, NOT to call my son.

My son and I don't get along because I will never accept his heroin addiction or his poor treatment of me. He will not be left anything ($ or objects) either.

He has only called me (twice this year) because my ex has reminded him of my birthday and Mother's Day.

I figure if he can't call me or at least talk to me civilly when I call, he doesn't need to know that I died.

If your sister hasn't bothered to call or visit, then she doesn't deserve to know when your Mom dies.

If she's to inherit any money, keep her portion UNTIL she decides to call or come by. Have someone else give it to her. Then be rid of her forever.

Even though I agree with your feelings, I suggest you get some counseling. This has clearly affected you and I think you need some help working past your anger so YOU can move on.

Squiggle, you are so much better than I am. I would never have packed up those items and taken them to your BIL for your niece. Maybe held onto them until she picked them up, if ever, or maybe leave them somewhere else and tell her she has to pick them up and then block her from phone, email, etc.

DON'T TELL HER BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T DESERVE IT- she can find out afterwards - so you won't need to see her - otherwise how will she find out - send a copy of death announcement to her after you have done what you need to do - really how would she know if you don't tell her - even put announcement in paper after the fact - good luck