When to talk to your LO about getting rid of their house?

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When to talk to your LO about getting rid of their house?

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Update: Moved my 84 year old mother to Memory care from a different company in April and she seems to be doing much, much better than the AL we moved her into after rehab hospital after she broke her arm. She hated the AL and threatened to get a lawyer and 1 time tried to escaped. She went to the desk almost daily to ask to call the police because she was kidnapped. Anyway, none of this has continued at the memory care place so my sisters and I feel good about that move. I am remote and my 2 sisters are local to her.
My mother has stopped asking about when she is going home but she has mentioned to the activities coordinator that her goal is to go back to her home which she lived alone since my dad passed in 2021. This is not the plan and the memory care place is aware.
Her house is paid off but is vacant, We keep the air conditioning on and the yard taken care of but just wanted to get advice about when we should bring up the topic of selling the house to her. My sister has POA.
My mother specifically asked my sister with POA to keep her in the loop about such decisions and has asked what is going on with the house while in memory care. We all just say " Nothings going on with the house" because we are all traumatized from her behavior in the AL place.
Her memory is in the mid-range of decline. She will forget conversations an hour later but she might remember a visit from the day before. She still remembers her daughters and their husbands names but has forgotten the grandkids name.
I think it will traumatize her to get her approval to start preparing the house for sale but just wanted get some feedback since I have received such good feedback to my questions in the past.

Alzheimer's & Dementia Care Decisions Elder Law Memory Care Power of Attorney (POA)

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See an elder law attorney with the POA sister. Or let the POA sister do this.
There are repurcussions to keeping and to selling. If mom is self pay then this will give her the needed extra funds for her care ongoing. If she is on Medicaid she can keep the home, may not want the funds, and there will be clawback by the government when the home is sold.

The home will be difficult to get insured, difficult to keep up without funds unless rented; a family member may be able to move in to caretake.

All these legal "nice-ities" need to be known. An attorney, elder law in your area, can help you make decisions.

None of this now really is in your mother's control. She KNOWS WHAT IS COMING and that is why she keeps asking. The POA handles these decisions for your Mom now in her best interests and your Mom will be informed. She will GRIEVE. DO grieve along with her, because is this last loss not worth grieving?

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Reply to AlvaDeer

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I always appreciate your feedback. I like the idea of taking lots of pictures before we start getting rid of furniture. We decided to wait a couple more months ( not anticipating selling it in the next few months) to make sure my mother is truly settled in the memory care before we make the decision whether to tell her or not. She is on self-pay but we will need the money at some point to pay for her care. We have also checked with grandkids to see if anyone wanted to live there rent-free but no takers.

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Do not tell her you are selling the house she will fight you on that. Know that she will never go back. She is adjusting well - which is great.
If you want to keep the house - rent it out - get a rental company to collect the rent and then save the money for repairs and up keep.

I had to sell my daddys car because he could not remember how to drive or where he was. So because I was POA and Executor of the Estate I could sell it. He had resigned from trustee of his living trust and so I was able to do this. Talk to an elder attorney -- well worth the money trust me!

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Reply to Ohwow323

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Thank you for the feedback, Ohwow323

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Read the POA, it should say sister can sell the house. If Mom is in MC she is not competent to make informed decisions. As a person who had to deal with my Moms house, sell it. You are just wasting money that could be used for Moms care. You can sell it as is but should be at Market rate in case Mom needs Medicaid within the next 5 years. A vacant house means the home insurance will go sky high.

This is what DH and I did. DH unplugged the refrigerator and and appliances. I had a light set up in the living room that went on at dusk and off at 11pm. Mom always kept her stove light on, so we did too. I left the water on and in the winter left heat at 55. Mom had no a/c. But if I kept it on, it would be on the highest possible temp for comfort if being shown. If you can, have a neighbor park their car in Moms drive. Have mailed dlvrd to sister. Lawn mowed so it looks like someone is living there.

When Mom asks about the house, fib. She will never return and you should not have the responsibility of it.

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Reply to JoAnn29

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We have the mail diverted to my sister and we do have a car parked in the driveway. I will get a timer for the living room light - great suggestion. Lawn is also being maintained.
So I will focus on working with my sisters to clear out the stuff.

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POA should be able to sell
the home .

Do not tell Mom .
Just keep giving the same vague answers because she forgets what you say an hour later .
If every time she brings up the house and you told her it’s sold , she will get upset each time as if it was the first time hearing it .

If she wasn’t as forgetful I would tell the truth .

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Reply to waytomisery

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From the feedback, I will talk to my sister - maybe we wait a couple more months ( not anticipating selling it in the next few months) to make sure my mother is truly settled in the memory care before we make the decision whether to tell her or not. We can work on clearing out the stuff in the meantime. Thanks so much for your feedback.

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Do not let mom know you'll be selling the house! Nobody will inform her, legally, if you don't because the POA has the right to sell the home w/o moms knowledge.

Dementia prohibits a person from being able to make decisions or process decisions made on their behalf. Since the vast majority of dementia sufferers are obsessed with "going home" in the first place, what earthly good would it do for you to discuss selling moms home with her???? So she can cry and complain incessantly and then require drugs to calm her down?

Please let common sense prevail here. Do not apply our rules of normalcy about "lying" to folks afflicted with damaged brains. Come up with whatever vague story you need to in order to keep mom calm about her house, that's the only goal: Keeping them calm.

Best of luck.

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Reply to lealonnie1

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I appreciate the feedback, lealonnie1. Thank you.

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I agree to discuss with elder care attorney. It depends on the scenario, and whether you need the full money out now, or not yet. Discussing with any financial planner and tax person you have for your mother may be useful too.

Consider it a GOOD thing that you have it vacant! (and not still full of her stuff!)

so being vacant, you can deliberate whether its best to rent it out vs sell it.....

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Reply to strugglinson

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It's vacant of people - not stuff. We will start clearing out the stuff then decide in a few months whether to tell her or not. Thanks for the feedback.

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If you or a sibling has POA and she is incompetent then it is the responsibility of the POA to do what is best to provide for mom.
That means possibly that you have to sell the house and place the funds in an account that will be available to pay for her care.
The POA does not need moms approval to sell the house.
If she asks about it you say what you have been saying and you can add these phrases.
The house is being taken care of.
The house is in good hands.
We are taking care of everything
All of these statements are true. Even if the house is sold the statements are also true.
(If the house is sold just hope that no "do gooder friend" of hers comes to visit and spills the beans. But if that does happen you can just say that her "friend" does not know what they are talking about)

Sell it as soon as you can...a vacant house is or can be trouble. Anything from someone breaking in to squatters and just neglect (I think houses know when they are vacant and they begin to "die" if that makes sense)

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Reply to Grandma1954

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I am concerned with the house being vacant of people. It wasn't in the best shape before all this happened as my mother would always respond, "we will deal with that later" when we would suggest something needed repair - like sinks not draining properly. I appreciate your feedback.

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Sister is POA. She can sell the house any time. Maintaining it is a money pit, and the money could be better used somewhere else, like for mom's memory care. No more mention of the house needs to be made. If mom asks, your answer will still be that nothing is going on with the house even if you've sold it. She's not going back there. She's not going to get better.

You all need to realize that you don't need mom's approval for anything now. ANYTHING. You can ease every situation onto her and discuss with her as if it makes a difference, but it does not. It only stirs up things that are better left alone.

The family could now be getting her house ready for sale, such as cleaning out the attic and basement, getting rid of old clothes and knitting needles and that figurine she bought on her trip to Niagara Falls in 1995. You do this without her knowledge. In the end, she won't care. It seems sneaky, but that's how you and the fam need to do things. Mom has dementia. That rules all.

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Reply to Fawnby

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We will begin getting the house ready for sale. Thanks for the feedback.

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I would sell the house sooner than later and avoid telling mom. She’s settled, no need to upset her with news you’d likely have to repeat and mess up her new found contentment.

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Reply to Daughterof1930

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But she asks about it all the time. I would not lie to her. Her dementia is not terribly progressed from what our OP says. I would tell her the truth and I would grieve with her. This is a part of life. Her mom has lived a long time. There has been sad times before. I simply would not lie. Not while there is memory. And I would help her have memories, and make a scrapbook. To me, one of the most awful betrayals we can do if to deny someone truth. That isn't just dementia, but it is crazy-making, to me at least.

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Thank you for all the feedback. For clarification, the house is vacant of people but it is still full of furniture and stuff. For now, I am working with my sisters to decide how to clear out all the furniture and stuff.

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Reply to LauraAT

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Yes. The clear out is hard work and very emotional. I had no idea what we would find up in the attic and it was chocked full of boxes that had never been opened since my parents moved form their original home 30 years ago. They just moved everything they owned with them, stored many of the boxes and never opened them again! My mother's wedding gifts, her mother's (my grandmother) things, photographs from both sides of the family that are disintigrating from age including a box of birthday cards from my first birthday and I'm 70! It has taken my husband and me 3 months of hard work to go through all the stuff. There were even social security cards for my grandmother and great-grandmother with some of the paperwork so it is important to look through stuff before just chucking it. We left some basic furnishings in the house so it would look like someone might be living there when we moved my Dad to assisted living but once the house went under contract we donated everything to Habitat to Humanity and local charity shops. My husband made lots of small repairs that my Dad had neglected over the past few years as his health declined. (We lived 1700 miles away which is why we were not always there.)

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You aren’t planning on doing anything too drastic too soon, so I’d suggest you take this gradually. Yes, clear the place up and dispose of things that won’t make it all look like it’s stripped. I’m in the process of selling a house (and the farm that goes with it), and believe me it takes a very long time! Organise to split things with other family members. It’s a real benefit not to have to do this with a gun to your head. Take a few little things in to show her, over time, and ask ‘permission’ to pass it on to 'Ermintrude' because 'she was asking about it, she has always loved it'. 'We could leave it with her for a while to enjoy it'. Start with books, no-one notices the gaps on the shelf. Blurr what’s still there, and what’s gone.

Before you start any of this, contact a selling agent and ask for a set of photos to be taken of the property. They will be important memories for you as well as for other family members. For the actual sale, you will be asked to 'de-personalise' the property, so that a purchaser can see it as 'theirs', not 'yours'. But for memories you want photos taken while it is still 'personal'. It's worth the extra money!

At the same time, I’d suggest that you start to talk about how much work is needed to the fabric of the house and yard. Some of it may be true, if it’s things that should be done before a sale. Some of it may just be ‘complaints’ about what OUGHT to be done, at least potentially. Ask for her suggestions or decisions, particularly about plumbing etc that she probably doesn't understand. Build up the picture that the house isn’t in good shape to move back into, and that it’s all a lot of work and worry.

If you have the time to do this gradually, you may find that the end is a whole lot easier for her to accept. It may even seem like a relief!

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Reply to MargaretMcKen

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It’s a very hard thing to do, but leaving the house empty like that is an invitation to squatters and I doubt you want that. The thing is, she won’t get better. Dementia is something you can’t work your way out of. If mom won’t agree you may have to get a court order deeming her unfit to make that decision and then you’ll be free to deal with her estate.

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Reply to Dizzerth

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If the OP's sister has a durable POA she should be able to sell the house. If Mom asks about the house, just say that it is being taken care of. No need to elaborate. As others have said, there is no way back from dementia and the best we can do for our loved ones is to keep them safe, comforted and content to the best of our ability. It is the saddest thing for all involved.

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I am having the same issue with my brother. Now he is 6 hours away from his house and is in A L near me. I take care of his house. Mainly I am trying to keep him happy in his new place. For health reasons, and mild dementia, he cannot go back.
I try to keep him occupied with things to do near his new home. I need to sell his house but do not want to tell him.

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Reply to atagirl

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Speak to a local elder care attorney. If sister has POA, she should be able to make the house sale - again ask attorney.

Don’t say anything to your mom. If she asks about going home just say yeah, but it’s being painted, fumigated, remodeled whatever, just stall. She will eventually stop asking. Tell care providers to play along.

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Reply to Donttestme

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We just went through a very similar situation, although no memory issues. After my mother's accident left her unable to live alone and unwilling to accept in-home care, she is now in AL. I have POA. House needed a new roof/windows, basement kept flooding, major yard maintenance, etc. She reluctantly agreed to sell the house, which she is still mourning. It was a very quick sale. Advice would be to take photos now of the house, and bring anything reasonable to her that she could use or enjoy. I would also get a home inspector in there asap so that you know what you will be required by law to correct prior to sale. That may take some time and effort to get done. Leaving the house vacant is not the way to go, and I'm sure your siblings that live closer are growing weary of looking after it and would like to move on to the next phase of the process. Sending good vibes it goes smoothly.

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Reply to gailanncreates

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It came down to honesty is the best policy for me. I told her that she would run out of money for her care. The house is too much to maintain and holding onto it is costly. The fact I also mentioned that it wasn't safe for her,especially being alone. We had to "gate" the downstairs off because she could fall. She realized the financial part of it most. Having her know actually helped because we had issues with the closing company and she had to sign the bill of sale. They didn't read the will close enough and claimed I didn't have the authority, big mess. The reality of it all was she was starting to wander and safety was the main reason. She will understand that the value of the house will go down with the bills and everything that she worked for will be a waste of time and money. Mom, I'm sorry but you can't afford to keep it. Somewhere in her mind it will click and you won't have to keep making excuses. She's probably going to ask where everything's going? Family and charity works.

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Reply to JuliaH

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Yes. My mother, also, could not afford the AL apt she lived in without selling her home. She understood that while the house remained unsold, my husband and I were ponying up 2/3 of the monthly cost to keep her in AL as her income wasn’t enough to give her a 1 bedroom (something she really wanted). I had DPOA so I could make those decisions but am very glad she was in the loop and in agreement, as the entities I dealt with throughout the sales process (especially title) were wary lest she as the homeowner was either not aware of the sale or did not want the sale. Even with the original DPOA in hand and a copy of my dad’s DC, they still made me explain in detail why she needed me to represent her and that she was in complete agreement with the sale because she needed the money to stay at her AL. They recorded my statements both in writing and voice record. At closing I signed as her attorney in fact.

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Can she get to the house on her own? Does she drive? If the answers are no … which I am assuming they are because of memory care - then there’s no reason to tell her. Her memory will not improve. Zero chance of it. Out of sight is out of mind. How long has she been out of the house so far? The more time passes the less memory of it she will have. Meanwhile you and your sister both know she won’t return to that house so you’re just postponing the inevitabile by not selling.

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Reply to Lmkcbz

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Do NOT do this behind her back!!! She has made it clear what she wants to do and is trusting you. You can find in home care for her. In fact she can choose whoever she wants to come there to help her. There are programs available to help as well.

We have a wonderful program here called IRIS that helps disabled and elderly stay in their home and provide the funding they need to pay not only for care, but for anything they may need in the home or outside activities that are not already covered by their insurance. The one here is through Medicaid and it allows her to pick who ever she wants for care givers (that includes family).

There is not need to force her out of her home! So listen to your mother and don't be so cruel!

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Reply to FamilyNeeded

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This poster “Family Needed” always posts to leave the burden on family and make family members feel guilty. Also always refers to this wonderful IRIS program that makes it all so, so easy. In spite of asking, we never get details about what this program is, who funds it, where it is available, and who can get it. Until some details are provided, it’s better to treat it as a dream.

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There comes a time when you do what is needed - and in the best interest / welfare of your loved one - and not 'reporting' back to them what is going on.
Why Would You Do This?
- their brain is / has changed and they will not be able to make decisions in their best interest.
- They will constantly 'insist' and 'demand' - know this is likely a combination of personality and fear.
- You deal with this by telling them WHATEVER will keep your mother as calm as possible. "Of course" she will always say she wants to go home. Who wouldn't? After a while, she will stop - although it could be a long while.

You DO NOT WANT to discuss / say anything that would potentially traumatize her. Why would you? You do what is in her best interest. She will fight you 'tooth and nail' for what she considers / feels is her life line - holding on to the independence she wants / used to have.

- Always show compassionate listening / understanding. Be clear on your boundaries. If you don't know what to say in a given moment, say "I'll think about that and get back to you ... that's a good question." Then change the subject.

* If you have any legal questions about how to proceed, i.e., POA and other legal documentation, get an attorney.

It is hard to realize that your mom isn't the same person you used to know, although or even if she is 'mid-range of decline.' It is a grief filled time - this transition. Google Teepa Snow. She has webinars, books, You Tubes and more on how to interact / communicate with a family member inflicted with dementia.

Gena / Touch Matters

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Reply to TouchMatters

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AlvaDeer makes a good point about using money from the sale of the house for her care if her own money is being used for Memory Care vs not wanting money from a house sale to disqualify her if she is on Medicaid.

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Reply to RedVanAnnie

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LauraAT: The POA has the right to sell mom's house. Perhaps your mother should NOT be informed of it being placed on the market since it will be way too upsetting for an individual with dementia.

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Reply to Llamalover47

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I am so glad you are getting some good advice here. I too had the same issue. My mom had a stroke and could not walk. She also has light dementia. She had to be put in a nursing home because I could no longer care for her in my home. She still talks about going back to her house despite being in a nursing home for over 2 years. She will tell you that when she gets better she wants to go back to her house. Because she had to go on medicaid, I had to sell the house. At market rate. Wish I could be selling now lol. As the POA I had the authority to sell and I did not tell her because who knows how she would react. She might give up on life and she will be 96 in November 2024. My mom is somewhat content where she is but she definitely would go back to her house if she thought she could. FamilyNeeded appears to be suffering from guilt over what she wasnt able to do for her loved one and she is giving advice that perhaps is not the best.

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Reply to Stayingyoung

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Have you thought of having your mom (with your and your siblings support) set up a Living Trust? We just did this for my 87 year old mom. She is healthy and independent but also you just never know right when they will pass.
If your mom is the title owner of the house, and you / she haven’t sold it before she passes, when she does pass you will have to go through probate. Even though the house is paid off. I hear the process can be long and tiring. Even if you have POA. The Living Trust just puts the ownership of the house in the trust, and adds you as beneficiaries so then it’s an easy transfer of ownership. This way you avoid paying a lot of taxes on the difference between the original sale price at which she bought the house and the market price when you sell it in the present.
Find a good Estate Lawyer, one who specializes in setting up Living Trusts.

Good luck with your mom! More power to ya, I know how tough it can be.

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Reply to catmommy

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I will check into this. Thank you!

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If Mom doesn't understand she doesn't get a vote. Bring her the things she needs to feel that her apartment/room in MC is HERS. Ask famiy members to take what they want. Set a date to do this, and make it soon. The market for used furniture, even valuable antiques, is basically non-existant. Donate everything. The sooner you do this the better. You don't want this hanging over your head for the next year. When something is inevitable, just deal with it and move past it.

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Reply to DrBenshir

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I am going through the same thing with a vacant house. I worry about it a lot.

Sell the house. It is a liability to have it vacant. That's what we are doing.

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Reply to Hothouseflower

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Maybe consider renting her home for a year so it isn't empty. Then, consider selling it.

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Reply to Taarna

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When to talk to your LO about getting rid of their house?

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