Will mom ever stop manipulation?

No, she will not stop manipulating. It's her way of getting what she wants. As for the "I'll just take all my pills!"... please. It's like 5-year-old saying they'll hold their breath until you give them what they want. She isn't suicidal; she just wants to make you feel like a terrible daughter.

Stop the extended visits in your home. I can see her getting "hurt" or "sick" while there and thus getting to stay with you indefinitely. In her mind she may see it as you being somewhat open to her living there. She's hoping that once she's there a few days, that you'll say she can stay for good.

If she asks to stay awhile, a reply along the lines of, "Well, you get so upset when it's time to go back home, and I don't like you doing that." This turns the tables on her. She currently sees it as "She makes me leave and that upsets me." This other angle frames it as "I choose to get upset when I have to leave." Then the blame sits with her, not you.

Keep reminding her you'd be happy to have her live nearby. When she scoffs at that, maybe gently suggest that if she is so unhappy or lonely living alone, that perhaps assisted living would be a good option? She'll hate that idea even more, but the purpose is to let her know in a subtle way that you're not backing down and can't be guilt-tripped into taking her in. Could point out that you wouldn't live with your grown children either, and that is the normal way it should be.

I am so glad my MIL lived in Fla and us in NJ. She was passive agressive. She also used to say she would stop her blood thinner to die. Actually, when she was told she could never go home and needed to live near a son, she willed herself to die at 92. When my DH retired, her phone calls were always to come live with her. Then it was a house around her was for sale. She got me on the phone and said we should move to Fla. Told her I had Mom to care for. She said Mom could move too. Told MIL that Mom had her friends, activities and Church. Mom was in her 80s. Change would not be easy. My MIL said "we all have to compromise". Not sure what her compromise would have been.

Stick by your guns. Visit with her but don't bring her to your place. My Aunt had her Mom for a visit. She got ill while there and never left. My Aunt cared for her Mom in Aunts house till the mother died. I hear she wasn't the nicest lady.

I would continue to say NO. Sit down in front of her, look her in the eye and say "Mom you living with us will not work for many reasons. I would be glad to find someplace near us. Either an apartment, independent living, or AL" An IL or AL would have activities and transportation. Some IL have meals included. If she is still stubborn, then tell her these are her choices.

You are entitled to your life. This is the time you and husband get to enjoy life alone for a change. I am pretty sure if Mom was living with you she would expect to go everywhere u did. And pout if u tried to explain why she couldn't. Enjoy that grandchild. They are only little for so long.

How about you turn the tables and stop visiting for what is virtually the whole of one day a week? When you only have two days in a weekend anyway? Take away her washing to do at home, and leave her with essentials but not the clothes she likes best. Stop meal prep – she can mange with frozen etc. Leave her with a phone number of someone who can come and help with bathing – and remember that an all-over wash once a week is probably enough if there is no serious health issue. Tell her that job? DH? has changed and you can only stay for an hour. Perhaps all you do is help her shower - no nice long chats. Stress how much better it would be for both of you if she moved closer, accepted in home care, or moved to AL.

At present she quite likes the way things are, and thinks that she can manipulate you to make them even better her way. You say 'will she ever stop manipulating', which means that this is a long term trait and it isn't going to stop. You need to make it so that she doesn’t like the way things are and knows full well that you are not going to do what she wants. She needs to see something different as best for her, not best for you. And for everyone’s sake, STICK TO YOUR GUNS!

Say plainly to your mom that no, she will not be able to live with you and that you expect her to not mention this again. Then, if she does, excuse yourself and leave, or (if on phone) say you've got to go and hang up. The point is you need to take away from her - take away your presence. Right now, her starting point is your frequent care of her, and she thinks she can gain from there. She needs to understand that, conversely, she can lose from there.
If a big blow-up should happen, you'll tell her that she has several choices. Laay them all out and then add, "Coming to live with me is not one of the choices. It's not an option."
In other words, stop the manipulation by very plainly rejecting it. When she does the passive-aggressive stuff (You don't want me etc.), Just laugh and say that's nonsense, silly talk. Or say you'll talk to her later.
I love the saying repeated on this board: "No is a complete sentence." That means don't engage in her manipulative schemes; withdraw (take away your presence).
As Margaret said, turn the tables.

If she has enough strength to tell you something so hurtful as she plans on killing herself, then you should call a suicide hotline on her if she does it again. You mom has to learn to respect your life and if she continue to not do so then she is leaving you no choice because if your're not well (emotional, mentally, physical, etc) how can you provide care in any capacity to someone else. Like they say on the airplane during emergency instruction, you must put the oxygen mask on yourself first before you attempt to put it on anyone else. Find strength in putting your foot down and having your mom respect your boundaries for they are important in the ability toward maintaining a health life.

Oh, my God, she’s GOOD! When all else fails, she pulls out the suicide card! Wow!

My mom wanted to move in with me, too. She promised to pay her way, which I’m sure she would have. We would “fix up” the upstairs as an “apartment”; for her and even turn one bedroom into a mini-kitchen. At that time, I’d just been presented with my first grandson and babysat for him full time. I had his nursery upstairs and it would have been in the middle of this “apartment” of her’s. He wasn’t a difficult baby, but he did cry and demand a lot of my attention which would have irritated her. Plus, we had two dogs. She tolerated dogs but never approved of my having two. The most dangerous was that the steps were carpeted and she would have taken regular flyers down them. I deflected and redirected and finally came right out and told her no way. She would never had taken my grandma to live with her! The dilemma was solved for me when she crashed and burned with a UTI and was evaluated in the hospital. It was determined she couldn’t ,Ive alone and I placed her in a facility.

Dont put your marriage at risk for her. She will move in and take over. Step back from caregiving for her. If she refuses care you’ve set up for her, so be it. Stop. If something doesn’t get done because she refused, fine. If something doesn’t get done for her because you were with new grand baby, fine. As long as you let her use you and take over your life, she will continue. Be kind and loving in what you do, but be the iron fist in the kid glove.

Keep at the forefront of your mind: you and your husband are not willing to let her live with you.  No.  There is no reason to feel guilty about this. Caring for parents does not mean necessarily hands-on, or living under the same roof.  I believe it would be disastrous to your marriage, as well as your health and sanity.  Spouse comes before parent, every time, IMO.
She says she is lonely? But in relatively good health. So, what is SHE doing about that? You are offering outside help in her home, but she says No. Well, then, guess she doesn't want/need the help. Basically, she is working at guilting, domestic tyranny, emotional abuse. Not a nice person, I think.  You simply have no obligation to put up with this abuse. No reason for guilt.  She should feel guilty for acting this way toward you. Tell her no as often as necessary. No arguing or explaining - the answer is no and that is final.  This is something she doesn't get a say in - she needs to examine her own options for relieving loneliness.

Oh my gosh!!!! Thank you all so much for your very supportive and very helpful advice. I have read all of them a few times over. It’s so affirming to hear others say that I shouldn’t feel guilty. I never needed this level of validation in my life before. I hope I can get back to a place where I don’t need it as much but right now it feels like a life preserver! I truly am so grateful for those of you who took the time to share your thoughts! Keep them coming! Perhaps they will also help others in similar circumstances. I’m starting to realize I’m not alone with my manipulative and guilt proving mom.

Oh boy! My mom is 83 and I don't think I could face another 10 years of that behavior. She did live with me for 5 years and we moved her when her docs said she needed 24/7 care. I felt guilty at first and a social worker set me straight. She told me I was entitled to my own life, I was still raising my kids, and I could not give the kind of care Mom needed. Mom did not agree with this assessment. She would have no qualms about sucking up my life and my kids' lives to make hers go more smoothly. Reason won out and Mom is now in a memory care facility. I visit her once a week and take her out for dinner and shopping. I get no end of comments about how much she hates the facility and has to live there because "no one wants her." Every month or so she needs more attention and she "falls" and we have to make our pilgrimage to the local ER. She's never tried the suicide threat on me but that's probably because she just hasn't thought of it yet. It's a lousy situation for the elderly with dementia, but what is the alternative? People are living longer, more people are getting dementia/Alzheimer's, and families have a hard time coping with their safety and social needs. Don't feel guilty about not having your mom live with you. You have a right to your own life. If you don't feel you can provide what she needs, or you simply don't want to rearrange your entire household, marriage, work and family for what she WANTS - not needs - then don't move her in.

You already know you will not be able to have her live with you. So often we think we can do what it turns out we cannot. You are way ahead of the situation. Perhaps instead of telling her you will show her places, just make arrangements and take her to senior apartments in your area. She may need to actually see them to know that you are serious and that one of these places would be really great for her because she will be closer to you. As for how hard it is to listen to her complaints and suicide threats, perhaps you could act on what she says to you. Could you call the suicide hotline and hire home care yourself, so she can't fire them? She probably needs companionship and uses you for that. Senior housing would help.

Momsgoto, it's fairly easy to start to lose one's own assertiveness when one is repeatedly abused, yes, abused, the way you are being abused.
Come back here any time you feel that guilt coming on.

My whole entire LIFE was one crisis with mother after another. She used the 'suicide card' for everything--mostly to keep us in line. It was VERY effective with 2/6 of us. I freaked out, literally when she'd get that way--imagine an 8 yo coming home from school to a totally silent home..tiptoeing down the hall and listening at mother's bedroom door to hear if she is breathing? Yep, that was my upbringing.

Finally, at age 30 (me) she pulled that old chestnut out of the fire and I HAD HAD IT! I said "Please, mother, please DO kill yourself. But don't you DARE leave a mess for me to clean up. I am pregnant and unable to bend over. I hope that this finally makes you happy" And I slammed the front door on the way out. Worse part of that is that my kiddoes were with me and 3 of them understood what she was saying!!

I know now this is abuse and manipulation of the most awful kind. I'd rather she'd hit me than lay the guilt of her unhappiness at my feet.

Now she's 89 and is slowing down a lot. we do not have a good relationship and we won't. I swear it's the most difficult moms who live for-freaking-ever.

I have friends who lose their moms and I see the grief and sorrow they feel. I simply cannot relate to that. I'm sure I will have my moments, but honestly? She made such a mess of me that I'm not sure there's enough counseling to patch me up.

I'd use the support of DH to keep you strong. You're fortunate to have that. You know in your mind that she is not going to come and ruin your homelife. So, I'd say daily affirmations to that effect. Singing songs of victory and solace over good decisions can reinforce your position. I'd try to get her comments out of your mind and not dwell on them. Just because someone may want something, it doesn't make it a good idea or feasible. But, since mother would not likely accept that, I'd let her live in her own world and move forward with what you know is best for all. And, I don't get the guilt part. Sound decisions to protect your own mental health and that of your marriage sounds pretty impressive to me.

Rather than have her stay with you for an extended "visit" there are senior living communities that offer respite stays, sometimes for 1-2 months.

You are doing a great job of enforcing your healthy boundaries that are protecting both you and your husband, who also has earned the right to do with his time what he chooses. I've heard from many of my friends with grandkids that being a grandparent is precious to them.

Make a plan to make small changes. Cut down your visits to every other week so that you can spend more time with your grandchild. Next time she needs to recuperate somewhere, let the social worker know that your home is not an option and ask about inpatient rehabilitation. If she refuses, that's a good bargaining chip for you to get her to accept some in-home help.

Remember that you do not need to explain yourself and your choices to your mother. What's between you and your husband is none of her business.

I dealt with this too: you MUST be strong!! I know hard it is to confront one’s mother, but you have to be in charge now. Either she accepts help from others for some things or she does without. I had to “lay down the law” with my Mom too. She kept insisting I return everything I bought for her - after she specifically asked for it - and I told her I would arrange for others to do her shopping if she continued this behavior. I refused to make any more returns. It worked. Good luck. You have to be the strong one now

Short addendum if I may be permitted: in any case, you should not be the only person doing things for your mother. She should expect assistance of some kind from other friends/family or professional folks. Don’t be her sole target!!

I feel for you. But your mom is doing what she has always done, right? For 9 years you say. It sounds like your anxiety and feelings of manipulation (and maybe your mother's attachment) might be because you (and she) are not sure "when the other shoe will drop". You are waiting for something to happen -- for your mother to need REAL help, not just thinking she will need real help. Your mother may pass quietly in her home, but she may also need assistance in her last chapter of life. You don't know -- hence the rub. being proactive, looking for a place for mom to be once she really needs it may help you feel like you have some control. Knowledge is power, but it also brings with it a calm that you have the next step planned when it necessary. Seeing a counselor to help sort and assess your real feelings would be great self care.

Don't do it. All sounds very familiar to me, I have been living with the guilt for too many years now. The one favor that this has perhaps done us both, is that we will never put our own children through the same, at least, not knowingly. I think the option you have given your Mum to move closer to where you live, is very generous. Maybe someone else could have a word in her ear. I wonder if you are maybe like me, an only child. Keep the chin up, and enjoy your lovely Grandchild. Good luck.

Let go of the guilt!!! Your mother will not change . . . my mom pulls the same thing, but with a twist- she tells me my father says he's going to kill himself if I don't do x,y,z . . . . my father and I have a good relationship but mom is so difficult. She loves, literally LOVES making me feel guilty. It sounds like your mother is stuck in that too- and you're doing a lot for her. Do not feel guilty.

You know you don't want her to live with you, and that's completely fine- can you imagine how stressful it would be to have her in your home ALL THE TIME?

You deserve to enjoy your new grandchild, and to have time and space to relax and rest.

So mom is lonely? There must be a Council on Aging near her . . . with plenty of activities- and if she doesnt drive, there are always transportation options for seniors. Connect her with those resources, and don't let her move in.

Maybe you should suggest that if she doesn't like the way things are now, she might find a nursing home more suitable. Be up front with her about the abusive manipulation she's using on you. I would report the suicide threat. A month in an elder psych unit might be very helpful. Just don't let them give her dangerous psych pills.

Stay firm - tell her you have said she is not moving in with you and no amount of trying to guilt trip you will change the situation. If she says she will kill herself, simply tell her this is a choice we can all make but it is her decision and hers alone. Then move conversation onto talking about places she could consider near to you. If she refuses to enter this conversation just agree - say OK, and tell her you are leaving now and will see her on X day.
I would seriously consider the number of calls you are making and cut them back to random times so you cannot be guilt tripped on time etc or even if you have phoned that day, also change visits and don't go every week. Equip her with an emergency button linked to an agency. You will never get her to change whilst you continue in the same way. If she is capable of being independent great, but if she needs assistance she needs to come to understand that that will be from outside and your visits are for more pleasant activities like going out for a tea or to a shop she would like to.

Ssounds like my Father age 93 now in care facility. When he lived at home alone he tried the " I am will die and day" ,Hinted about me moving in , was as awkward as possible with help I got him.
Ome of his doctors told me there would be a crisis which would take care of it all. He ended up in hospital. They were going to send him home with help from a support team but said he was near needing 24 hour care. I told him this and he replied he would chase them if they came to door. He asked me outright to go and live with him. I said no.i have a life and a husband and i am not giving it up. I took my cue from that. It was him or me. I had POA for him so after much ado got him admitted to care facility. He's still trying to manipulate but I don't react at all. I only visit weekly for short time. I still do feel a bit guilty but it's their manipulation that causes it. It's hard but don't give in. I think I am immune to most things he says now. I can now walk away if it starts and know he's safe and looked after. Stay strong and use this site. It will make you feel better on days you don't cope so well.

Hey Momsgoto, I can completely relate. I was Mom and Dad's go to as well and when Mom passed on March 19th at 96 she was still doing what seemed to be manipulation.
Now that the dust is settling a little I'm reflecting back at some of things she did and seeing it thru new eyes.
I have brothers and they live 3 hours away from my parent(s) I live in another country 9 hours away. But I'm the youngest 55 and the only girl and Mom had some challenges with my brothers. (they tended to treat her as if she's still in her 60's when clearly she had different needs and abilities at 96).
This is what I've come to believe. What we see occurring is very layered and the manipulation may in fact be a cry for help. I moved away from the city that my parents live(d) in 15 years ago and when I visited it was for weekends (delivering literally a trunk full of cooked and baked single and double serving meals that I had made at home and carefully labelled with carb counts for Dad and gluten-free for Mom) . Drive Friday, stay overnight and return home Sunday. There were times where she seemed crabby and controlling and one time we (hubby and I) even drove up on a Thursday and she requested we go home on Friday so we left at 10 in the morning. :-((

Fast forward to last Labor Day when Dad had a fall. I arrived on a Thurs and insisted on filing an application for LTC for both of them (they went into the nursing on Sept 24) While meeting with their GP he mentioned dementia and while I had long suspected this and even asked Dad, my dad had always insisted there was no problem and in fact the doctor may not have discussed it in any great detail when they went for all of their appointments together. To this day Dad insists it was never discussed with him and I believe him. Turns out people in the early stages of dementia can mask things very for 8 hours at a time (I say this because by late Sat it always seemed that we'd have a tiff. In hindsight perhaps she was sundowning or simply worried she would answer a question wrong, forget something and it might draw attention to the disease that took her from us).

So as a person reading your post I can't help but wonder whether she's trying to send smoke signals to you. Your mom knows she shouldn't be alone anymore and perhaps worries about finances and the cost of care (mine did). Also people of that vintage are inclined to be very private and getting help was something my mom would not allow so I got sneaky :-)) I contacted a caregiver service in their area got pricing decided what fit into my budget (not lots but enough) and as a Christmas gave them a caregiver. Initially I printed off a homemade gift cert saying this was a treat from us and she balked at it but finally allowed it. Julia went in every second week so she was my eyes and ear and was able to help me get a sense of what was really going on when I wasn't there.

With regard to your mom saying 'you don't want me', my mom started with Dad. She would say 'I'm nothing but a burden. You should leave.' quite frequently.
Interestingly enough as the POA and now as the executrix I marvel at how thorough she was in preparing for the inevitable. Prepaid cremation and funeral, pension set up so that it transferred to Dad, list of all necessary contacts etc etc.
She was never a burden to him or I though in her final months she was very childlike and needed a different kind of attention.

My suggestion to you would be to get a caregiver as a first step and start looking into LTC's near you. It's likely to a point now that it wouldn't be appropriate for her to be alone all day in your home either. I know the beaten puppy look. I saw it last month when left Dad alone in his LTC adjusting to his new normal. I'll be back to visit for a week in June and one in August and my husband will take his vacation time in July and go up. (Airbnb has become our new best friend). Other than that don't won't have many visitors. Best of luck

As the situation progressed and changed, I made up some "signs" (on paper in a clear sheet protector) and left them around - your ____ car has been sold because of the police report generated from the last time you ____ got you to agree you should no longer drive.... your house has been sold DO NOT KEEP GOING OVER THERE !!! , etc. Dad did not want to throw them out. Sometimes, he was holding a sign when I arrived - wanting to know why it was there. "That is the present reality."
Your parent will continue to treat you like a child. You can be a responsible adult without being mean.

WOW. That's a while lot to deal with. When you were growing up and mom worked in sure you had sitters. You should not feel guilty about getting your mom the help she needs. I'm sure she is lonely, so maybe check into a special care home near you. It might be time. That way she is closer and has 24 hour care and 24 hour company. People her own age to talk with and proper meals.

My Mom lives down the street from me, my dad had to be moved to memory care 2 years ago. Mom pulls the suicide card on a regular basis, for at least the last 3 years. It's total bullsh*t. My dad would be furious if he were cognitive enough to know her behavior. She's only in her 70s and I know this will continue for many years into the future (her mom lived to be 96), so I am strapped in for a bumpy ride. Good luck to us all :(

Is she refusing help because she doesn't see the need to spend money on caregivers and sees you as a cheap alternative?
I agree don't allow her to manipulate you by threatening suicide. I cared for a 97 year old who tried to manipulatee all the time. When I would end my shift to go home she would always say something like " say goodbye to me now I might not be here in the morning" or " call me in the morning to make sure I'm still alive" or the best one was she would imitate cutting her throat with her finger. I would get her all ready for bed and leave her all tucked in then get a call from neighbors telling me she was walking around the park outside. I would have to get dressed drive over there and scold her. Get her undressed and back into bed. Then it occurred to me and I said something to her about it, every morning I come and you cry that your arthritis hurts so much you need help dressing. But then I get here and see you've had no problem getting undressed and redressed after I leave. After a year I had finally had enough and decided that I could no longer care for her the way she needed. I had been working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week and I'm a single parent. Plus she didn't want to share me with my daughter. She was very very lonely, but I couldn't give any more of my life up for her. She had 4 kids non of which wanted to care for her. So they did end up putting her in a nursing home. I think that was the best place for her. My point being I would tell my mother that you will not be manipulated. That while you love her and care about her well being, you cannot and will not be able to take care of her along with our husband and grandchildren since she refuses help you may have no other alternative than to put her in a nursing home where there is staff 24/7 who monitor her meds for her and will care for her after surgeries and illnesses. Make sure to explain suicide threats should always be taken seriously and legally she looses her right to decide where she goes if she is a danger to herself or someone else. That's what I would do anyway. Good luck

Lose the surprise when she pulls the poor little me routine with you. Also you can’t feel guilt unless you want to. And since what you are doing is deciding how to live your life on your terms there should be no guilt. She needs to accept your no means no. I’m glad you say it’s getting easier so do not get worn down just to shut her up. Let her carry on and in your head as she tries to manipulate you just say to yourself "there goes that broken record again. She's taken it off the shelf and wants to play it" That statement will put it in perspective and take the power away from her and give it back to you. Continue to offer helping her find a closer place preferably an IL with AL for down the road. She will have social acquaintances and activities so you aren’t the only one she leans on. Plus they do the laundry, have meals etc. there is nothing wrong with telling her you are tired, in your 60’s and want to enjoy what life you have with your hubby and grandchildren. She has lived her life on her terms...it’s time for you. Lose the guilt, you’ve done nothing wrong to be guilty for.

My 88 year old mother is the same way. If mom wasn’t a manipulator before, and is now, this may be an early sign of Dementia. The overdose threat is also a huge red flag. If there’s any way you can get her in to see her doctor, it may be time for professional management of her care, along with daily administration of meds. She also may need some counseling and other forms of social interaction as well. Whatever you do, make time for you and your marriage. Your health and happiness is critical. If you think times are tough now, going through a divorce while having Mom as a roommate would be an absolute nightmare. There is help available. Not the easiest to find always, or to implement. But try to give Mom some choices instead of telling her “no.” This will give her a feeling of having some say / control over her future care, and help relieve the guilt.

your mothers appears to have come from a generation that cared for parents. If your mother never cared for a parent, bring that to her attention, if it fits