Will mom ever stop manipulation?

The short answer is 'no', she will never stop the manipulation. DO NOT MOVE HER INTO YOUR HOME! She, unfortunately, cannot come to visit for an extended period of time because your home is 'undergoing renovations', or, pick another reason of your choice. In fact, you may want to put an idea into HER head; that you and your husband are looking into downsizing and moving into a ONE BEDROOM apartment soon. Then, collect a few brochures of local Assisted Living Facilities and give mother a choice of which one she'd like to move into. Otherwise, you can only offer her X amount of time per week or per month due to the fact that you already have TOO much on your plate and only have so much time left over. You can always be truthful with her, explaining that the visits are too emotionally draining on you, and it's taking a toll on YOUR health to keep up these visits. The suicide threats are pure BS designed to be hurtful, and I'd mention that to her as well. My mother pulls the same stunt with me and I always call her out on it. Emotional blackmail is NOT ok, mother, and you are hurting your elderly daughter so cut it out. I like to remind my mother that she has to play nice with me, otherwise I'm leaving her room, or hanging up the phone, and I'll call or visit when and if she's in a better mood. You know what? It's NOT okay to be used as a doormat and a whipping post and it's okay to let these women know that!

Best of luck, I'm sorry you're facing such a tough situation my friend.

It sounds from your posting that the problem is not deciding whether to have her move in with you. You made that decision a long time ago for several excellent reasons. The problem is the emotional wear and tear you receive from her behavior.

She continues to do it because there's something "rewarding" about it for her. Maybe she really believes she'll eventually wear you down and get her way. I suspect there's more to it, because if that's all it was, after 9 years she'd have given up. Sadly, it sounds more toxic than that. She seems to enjoy hurting you. She gets a little thrill from it. That's the "reward" that keeps the cycle going.

No reasoning or logic given to her will stop the cycle. The only thing that will is to change the reward to a penalty. Making it so it isn't fun for her anymore to keep up with her guilt tripping.

It seems like you might need some support with this situation. Can you find a counselor who can help you navigate this toxicity and maybe come up with new ideas for how to respond?

You say you're tired. Of course you are! Nobody can endure all that and not be. Can you take a short break? Maybe tell her you won't be available to call her for a few days, then don't call her for 2 days and do some things you really enjoy. Spend time with your grandchild! Do a hobby you haven't been able to! Do pleasurable things for you.

When you call her, the guilt tripping will be severe, but you knew that and it's nothing you haven't experienced before.

And one last thing, if you aren't affected by her tripping, of you're like a smooth surface that the hooks she throws at you just slide off, it will be better all around. That's why I suggest a counselor. It might help you step out of the cycle that is so exhausting for you and rewarding for her.

Good luck. You deserve better.

Honey, listen to Loopyloo's advice. It's good. Don't stop seeing your Mom, I'm sure she looks forward to those visits. You sound like a very caring and giving daughter, and you're respecting your mom.
You have NOTHING to fill guilty about. Please don't move her into your home, you and your husband don't want this, and that's perfectly ok. I would still encourage her to move closer to you though,(would save some wear and tear on you) and the best thing for your mom's lonelyness. Maybe then some of her grown grandkids can help out too.
Hugs to you, and stand your ground! God bless you.💕

Sometimes I read these posts and think they're mine. If your mom is mentally healthy you shouldn't have to visit her so often. Do you have any siblings who can help? I actually sent my mom, who has Alzheimer's, to live with my sister and she has created so much drama, but it allows me some free time.

Well for starters you could say nothing when she mentions moving in with you. You can just give her a look like "We've already discussed this mother. Now stop bringing it up."
Then when she goes for the guilt trip card ask her when she became a travel agent for those. Your tired of hearing it and you don't need it from her.
As to being lonely, why hasn't she looked into going to her local senior center for sociable activities with others her age? Or moving to an independent living facility with other seniors closer to you? They'll feed her way better things than just frozen dinners.
Let her know what you told us here; you've already raised your kids and you don't see the need to raise her! Since she's refusing outside help, stop sending people to her and tell her she's on her own since she can bath, cook and do laundry by herself anyways. Then visit only when you feel you want to. She'll change course real quick after that.
Ask her and tell her those things and see what she says. She may need to rethink how she approaches you. And you may need to rethink how you handle those approaches with a good therapist.

First of all, I would ask all of you to stop using the term "nursing home". For your parents, this conjours up the image of sitting in the hall by the nurses station drooling down your face. I recommend substituting "senior apartment or community", "rehab facility", etc. My mom was in assisted living in her own apartment with her furniture. She had a kitchen or could partake in community dining. A nurse came by daily with meds, someone picked up laundry once a week, and, if needed, an aide came by to assist with baths. she wore a Lifeline necklace to summon immediate help. There was another level for those with severe memory problems, if it came to that. She had church services, a beauty shop and senior outings/activities if she wanted. Bottom line is she loved it there! This was five years ago and cost $2900 a month. Take your mom to visit a senior center near you (one with fairly active adults) and explain how it would be easier to visit her there more often.

Hi, Welcome to hell. Im 60, only child and mom just move from Florida to Mass..........even in florida it wasnt a pretty situation. EVERYTHING that went wrong in the state of florida was my fault, because I was not there. Now that she is 1500 miles closer- 2 miles from my house, Every dam day its something-and its up to me to fix it for her NOW, IMMEDIATELY! She is in a beautiful apartment, 2400.00 plus utilities ( her income is $ 1500- do the math)
The "house money" is HERS for "her old age". She is 91. Im out at least $1400 a month from my pocket. The only money she spends is groceries. That is my penalty for not having her live with me- ask her, she will tell you that! I have less than 10K left to my name- I work 70 hrs a week to cut the nut and my insurance.
Her favorite subject is everything I do not do for her. I hire help, she fires help. She tells people I "stuffed her in a rat hole WITH RATS- and has accused me for putting her in an illegal apartment...all to get her way into my home. She too, threatens to " take every pill in the GD house" , but ask to take her out to dinner, the answer is NO! "why , your conscious bother you?"
Nasty- fowl -negative, thats every word from her mouth. She F's everything! Been this way my entire 60 years . ABSOLUTELY HATES my husband and my daughter, yet my son walk on water. he has nothing to do with her at all. Neither my husband or daughter has set eyes on her since she moved her 11 months ago. Its just me.

Just a few weeks back on one of her rants she looked at me and said "if you had dumped him (my husband) 25 years ago, you might have made something out of yourself." And I turned around and said, that is exactly why you have your own apartment! And I left.

So by telling you all this, I think you have an idea where I am going with my reply to you......NO! DO NOT have her live with you, if you do move her closer, be prepared for a short chain around your neck- you wont have to be worried about being at the end of your rope- it will now become a chain. Im married 40 years in October, my husband will die for me- BUT I wont put that on him, in any way.

My mother is healthier than me, despite being 340 pound! 91, obese and arthritis, needs cheater for the new paper. THATS IT! Yes she says she is a diabetic, and then totally ignores it and takes no meds or meal precautions. She is on Vits and 81mg aspirin. is NAKED 24/7 and will b*tch if she has to put clothes on, constantly complaining about being cold and accusing apt owners for controlling her heat. 88 degrees at all times.
Ive got stents (5) and a one new valve already. First TIA's and one minor stroke- I have been lucky. I have another evaluation coming up in June, which I already can feel the need for more surgery. She will blame my entire family for this.
Easter was a blow out- when I went to visit, Screaming crying why are you here, you dont care about me- disappointed Im still alive? get the F out.....Im standing there with flowers and a dinner. Which she said was probably poison flowers or food. I lasted about 20 minutes. I couldnt take anymore. Told her to her face, your too much for me today, and left. Do you think she would learn, naaaaaaaaaaaa.

Mother Day will be another one and then June.....look what they have done to you!

if you mom goes into a hospital again, tell them to put her in a rehab for recovery, dont ask, TELL and dont hold back with the truth. They are professionals, they know. THAT came from my doctors, not hers.

Your gut is telling you no, listen to yourself, no more second guessing. Mind control by a narcissist. They are not lonely, they have driven other from their life by their attitudes, and chose the word lonely instead of the truth. I wasted 60 years on my mom, trying to find that mother daughter thing-its just not there, yet my daughter and I have evolved so easily. This is their choice, their path. We cant fix unhappy and they wont even try. Trust me xoxox

Wow! Erm. Your mum is 93. Where's the compassion? I am not saying she should live with you but there are ways and means of achieving best outcomes. Of course she is lonely. The world becomes smaller the older you get. A little kindness?

Momsgoto, look at the responses here. We are unanimous from what I read. Don't. I am an only child (son) of my 93 Y.O. mom. She is in AL after two attempts to have her live with us. No good, don't do it. My wife and I are 72 and in good health. Mom is in excellent physical shape and could out live me. That is a legitimate concern so I have spent the last year making sure her funding will be sufficient till she dies. She is in a nice AL facility and I keep track of her finances and her care. These things are my responsibility, not that she plays the victim when I visit. I would NEVER attempt to have her live with us again. Don't do it.

Yes. My father went through all his money and I just knew he thought he would move in with me. I told him “ there is no way you will ever live under my roof”. Ta Dah. Rude awakening for a selfish man and a life long gambler.

I feel your pain - I've had my mom living with me for almost 3 years now. She's 92, is very independent, can drive, cook, etc. but the signs of getting older and more dependent are becoming very apparent. She does almost solely rely on me and then can be a real "pill" at times and a very difficult person to love/respect. Lately she caused a rift between her son (my brother) and he no longer keeps in touch. He was the one respite I had that would actually come pick her up so that I could get a break. She recently is staying with her life-long friend in a smaller town and they have lots of help from friends, neighbors, etc. helping out. It gave me time to myself to gain some perspective and realize I CANNOT do it ALL! My other brother took what was left of her money she had from selling the family home. I've been suffering from stress related illnesses/skin issues/sleep issues and feeling exhausted. Since she's been gone a month I'm almost back to feeling normal, happy, and getting to spend time with friends. I'm single/work FT, and have a home to take care of. That in itself is a lot of responsibility - throw in a cantankerous 92 year old and the fact that I too am almost 60 is a disaster. I told her over the phone if she wants to come back she is going to have to find some assistance. I actually do not want to leave her alone as now she leaves the burner/stove on at times, and even one time the water running in the kitchen sink! Sometimes you just have to get off the guilt merry go round and put yourself first. And your family if you are lucky enough to have a hubby/kids/grandkids. I don't have all of that but I have hobbies, interests, friends I enjoy. Good luck to you!

Stop being so available. So she says she is going to save up her sleeping pills and kill herself? No she won’t She’s too selfish for that. Besides, do you know how many of those you have to take these days to make that work? Tons. Stop seeing her so much and hold fast on the accept home help and move closer plan. You have a grandchild now. Enjoy this time in your life. The woman is 93 for goodness sake. You should point that out to her. She should be grateful she is so fit Tell her you’re not getting any younger and you are shifting your priorities it never ceases to amaze me the amount of guilt people on this forum place on themselves. Get out from under her thumb and go live your life. Your mother has had hers and them some

I am in my early 60's and I, too, became a grandma this past year. It is the best! And it has definitely changed my priorities. My dad lives here in town so I don't have the miles between us like you do. I am his guardian and so I am wrapped up in his care constantly. Luckily for me, after about 6 months of pushing, he finally let care come in and has found that he loves it. They spoil him, clean his house, cook him meals, and take him everywhere. We've had caregivers for about a year. They come every day for 6 hours and then I spend a few hours with him every Saturday afternoon. This whole thing has definitely taken a toll on my marriage and is a constant source of argument because my Saturday's are taken with dad. I work full time and it has greatly limited my availability to spend time doing things with my family on the weekends. I would urge you NOT to bring your mother to live with you. It will definitely take a toll on your marriage. The biggest thing I have had to do is SET BOUNDARIES. You have to do this to keep your sanity. Don't feel bad if your mom lays guilt trips on you. I have had to learn to let those go a long time ago. I guess you could say I do a bit of 'tough love'. If I didn't, he would run all over me. He gets very controlling and bossy. My dad says a lot of stuff and other people freak out but I know he doesn't mean it and he would never hurt himself. He is only seeking attention. This has gotten a lot better since we have brought care in. He is now at the point where he should be in assisted living and that's another battle because he refuses to move. I have gone to a counselor for many years and she has taught me 3 things: 1) You have to set boundaries; 2) It's ok to say 'no'; 3) The needs of yourself and your family come first. I have had to live by this although sometimes my own family gets pushed to the side. Now that I am a grandma, my granddaughter absolutely comes first. We help our kids however we can and see them a couple times a week. The minute this whole thing with dad becomes too much and gets in the way of my granddaughter's needs, the guardianship goes. Set your priorities!

Don’t you dare take her in. Your life as you know it now will be as a 24/7 caregiver to an abusive mother. You will never get to see your grandchild. & you will have a resentful husband. & you will resent her & be angry...Please look for ALF for her. You are not there to entertain her or be her caregiver.. You may advocate for her and check up on her..that’s it! 🤗 hugs

My dad did this, so I became the bad cop and my brother the good cop. I made him go to the IL, but brother helped him find one and encouraged the move. When he fell and had to go on hospice and nursing home care, the doctors made him, he had no choice. Now his mind is about gone, delusions, hallucinations much of the time, he's legally blind and almost deaf, and he's bedridden. I'm still the bad person, but I can live with it because I got him the care he needs.

Put the decision on the doctor if you feel guilty. Tell the doctor what YOU need to happen. Most doctors are very good about doing what the family needs.

I have not read this entire thread yet (I will), but I feel compelled to stop here and say that a person who threatens suicide is considered a threat to herself and you have an obligation to report. If you know her doctor, I would suggest you start there. They will probably guide you as to what to do next. Suicide threats should never be taken lightly, even if they are made manipulatively. Best wishes to you!

No.

your mothers appears to have come from a generation that cared for parents. If your mother never cared for a parent, bring that to her attention, if it fits

My 88 year old mother is the same way. If mom wasn’t a manipulator before, and is now, this may be an early sign of Dementia. The overdose threat is also a huge red flag. If there’s any way you can get her in to see her doctor, it may be time for professional management of her care, along with daily administration of meds. She also may need some counseling and other forms of social interaction as well. Whatever you do, make time for you and your marriage. Your health and happiness is critical. If you think times are tough now, going through a divorce while having Mom as a roommate would be an absolute nightmare. There is help available. Not the easiest to find always, or to implement. But try to give Mom some choices instead of telling her “no.” This will give her a feeling of having some say / control over her future care, and help relieve the guilt.

Lose the surprise when she pulls the poor little me routine with you. Also you can’t feel guilt unless you want to. And since what you are doing is deciding how to live your life on your terms there should be no guilt. She needs to accept your no means no. I’m glad you say it’s getting easier so do not get worn down just to shut her up. Let her carry on and in your head as she tries to manipulate you just say to yourself "there goes that broken record again. She's taken it off the shelf and wants to play it" That statement will put it in perspective and take the power away from her and give it back to you. Continue to offer helping her find a closer place preferably an IL with AL for down the road. She will have social acquaintances and activities so you aren’t the only one she leans on. Plus they do the laundry, have meals etc. there is nothing wrong with telling her you are tired, in your 60’s and want to enjoy what life you have with your hubby and grandchildren. She has lived her life on her terms...it’s time for you. Lose the guilt, you’ve done nothing wrong to be guilty for.

Is she refusing help because she doesn't see the need to spend money on caregivers and sees you as a cheap alternative?
I agree don't allow her to manipulate you by threatening suicide. I cared for a 97 year old who tried to manipulatee all the time. When I would end my shift to go home she would always say something like " say goodbye to me now I might not be here in the morning" or " call me in the morning to make sure I'm still alive" or the best one was she would imitate cutting her throat with her finger. I would get her all ready for bed and leave her all tucked in then get a call from neighbors telling me she was walking around the park outside. I would have to get dressed drive over there and scold her. Get her undressed and back into bed. Then it occurred to me and I said something to her about it, every morning I come and you cry that your arthritis hurts so much you need help dressing. But then I get here and see you've had no problem getting undressed and redressed after I leave. After a year I had finally had enough and decided that I could no longer care for her the way she needed. I had been working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week and I'm a single parent. Plus she didn't want to share me with my daughter. She was very very lonely, but I couldn't give any more of my life up for her. She had 4 kids non of which wanted to care for her. So they did end up putting her in a nursing home. I think that was the best place for her. My point being I would tell my mother that you will not be manipulated. That while you love her and care about her well being, you cannot and will not be able to take care of her along with our husband and grandchildren since she refuses help you may have no other alternative than to put her in a nursing home where there is staff 24/7 who monitor her meds for her and will care for her after surgeries and illnesses. Make sure to explain suicide threats should always be taken seriously and legally she looses her right to decide where she goes if she is a danger to herself or someone else. That's what I would do anyway. Good luck

My Mom lives down the street from me, my dad had to be moved to memory care 2 years ago. Mom pulls the suicide card on a regular basis, for at least the last 3 years. It's total bullsh*t. My dad would be furious if he were cognitive enough to know her behavior. She's only in her 70s and I know this will continue for many years into the future (her mom lived to be 96), so I am strapped in for a bumpy ride. Good luck to us all :(

WOW. That's a while lot to deal with. When you were growing up and mom worked in sure you had sitters. You should not feel guilty about getting your mom the help she needs. I'm sure she is lonely, so maybe check into a special care home near you. It might be time. That way she is closer and has 24 hour care and 24 hour company. People her own age to talk with and proper meals.

As the situation progressed and changed, I made up some "signs" (on paper in a clear sheet protector) and left them around - your ____ car has been sold because of the police report generated from the last time you ____ got you to agree you should no longer drive.... your house has been sold DO NOT KEEP GOING OVER THERE !!! , etc. Dad did not want to throw them out. Sometimes, he was holding a sign when I arrived - wanting to know why it was there. "That is the present reality."
Your parent will continue to treat you like a child. You can be a responsible adult without being mean.

Hey Momsgoto, I can completely relate. I was Mom and Dad's go to as well and when Mom passed on March 19th at 96 she was still doing what seemed to be manipulation.
Now that the dust is settling a little I'm reflecting back at some of things she did and seeing it thru new eyes.
I have brothers and they live 3 hours away from my parent(s) I live in another country 9 hours away. But I'm the youngest 55 and the only girl and Mom had some challenges with my brothers. (they tended to treat her as if she's still in her 60's when clearly she had different needs and abilities at 96).
This is what I've come to believe. What we see occurring is very layered and the manipulation may in fact be a cry for help. I moved away from the city that my parents live(d) in 15 years ago and when I visited it was for weekends (delivering literally a trunk full of cooked and baked single and double serving meals that I had made at home and carefully labelled with carb counts for Dad and gluten-free for Mom) . Drive Friday, stay overnight and return home Sunday. There were times where she seemed crabby and controlling and one time we (hubby and I) even drove up on a Thursday and she requested we go home on Friday so we left at 10 in the morning. :-((

Fast forward to last Labor Day when Dad had a fall. I arrived on a Thurs and insisted on filing an application for LTC for both of them (they went into the nursing on Sept 24) While meeting with their GP he mentioned dementia and while I had long suspected this and even asked Dad, my dad had always insisted there was no problem and in fact the doctor may not have discussed it in any great detail when they went for all of their appointments together. To this day Dad insists it was never discussed with him and I believe him. Turns out people in the early stages of dementia can mask things very for 8 hours at a time (I say this because by late Sat it always seemed that we'd have a tiff. In hindsight perhaps she was sundowning or simply worried she would answer a question wrong, forget something and it might draw attention to the disease that took her from us).

So as a person reading your post I can't help but wonder whether she's trying to send smoke signals to you. Your mom knows she shouldn't be alone anymore and perhaps worries about finances and the cost of care (mine did). Also people of that vintage are inclined to be very private and getting help was something my mom would not allow so I got sneaky :-)) I contacted a caregiver service in their area got pricing decided what fit into my budget (not lots but enough) and as a Christmas gave them a caregiver. Initially I printed off a homemade gift cert saying this was a treat from us and she balked at it but finally allowed it. Julia went in every second week so she was my eyes and ear and was able to help me get a sense of what was really going on when I wasn't there.

With regard to your mom saying 'you don't want me', my mom started with Dad. She would say 'I'm nothing but a burden. You should leave.' quite frequently.
Interestingly enough as the POA and now as the executrix I marvel at how thorough she was in preparing for the inevitable. Prepaid cremation and funeral, pension set up so that it transferred to Dad, list of all necessary contacts etc etc.
She was never a burden to him or I though in her final months she was very childlike and needed a different kind of attention.

My suggestion to you would be to get a caregiver as a first step and start looking into LTC's near you. It's likely to a point now that it wouldn't be appropriate for her to be alone all day in your home either. I know the beaten puppy look. I saw it last month when left Dad alone in his LTC adjusting to his new normal. I'll be back to visit for a week in June and one in August and my husband will take his vacation time in July and go up. (Airbnb has become our new best friend). Other than that don't won't have many visitors. Best of luck

Ssounds like my Father age 93 now in care facility. When he lived at home alone he tried the " I am will die and day" ,Hinted about me moving in , was as awkward as possible with help I got him.
Ome of his doctors told me there would be a crisis which would take care of it all. He ended up in hospital. They were going to send him home with help from a support team but said he was near needing 24 hour care. I told him this and he replied he would chase them if they came to door. He asked me outright to go and live with him. I said no.i have a life and a husband and i am not giving it up. I took my cue from that. It was him or me. I had POA for him so after much ado got him admitted to care facility. He's still trying to manipulate but I don't react at all. I only visit weekly for short time. I still do feel a bit guilty but it's their manipulation that causes it. It's hard but don't give in. I think I am immune to most things he says now. I can now walk away if it starts and know he's safe and looked after. Stay strong and use this site. It will make you feel better on days you don't cope so well.

Stay firm - tell her you have said she is not moving in with you and no amount of trying to guilt trip you will change the situation. If she says she will kill herself, simply tell her this is a choice we can all make but it is her decision and hers alone. Then move conversation onto talking about places she could consider near to you. If she refuses to enter this conversation just agree - say OK, and tell her you are leaving now and will see her on X day.
I would seriously consider the number of calls you are making and cut them back to random times so you cannot be guilt tripped on time etc or even if you have phoned that day, also change visits and don't go every week. Equip her with an emergency button linked to an agency. You will never get her to change whilst you continue in the same way. If she is capable of being independent great, but if she needs assistance she needs to come to understand that that will be from outside and your visits are for more pleasant activities like going out for a tea or to a shop she would like to.

Maybe you should suggest that if she doesn't like the way things are now, she might find a nursing home more suitable. Be up front with her about the abusive manipulation she's using on you. I would report the suicide threat. A month in an elder psych unit might be very helpful. Just don't let them give her dangerous psych pills.

Let go of the guilt!!! Your mother will not change . . . my mom pulls the same thing, but with a twist- she tells me my father says he's going to kill himself if I don't do x,y,z . . . . my father and I have a good relationship but mom is so difficult. She loves, literally LOVES making me feel guilty. It sounds like your mother is stuck in that too- and you're doing a lot for her. Do not feel guilty.

You know you don't want her to live with you, and that's completely fine- can you imagine how stressful it would be to have her in your home ALL THE TIME?

You deserve to enjoy your new grandchild, and to have time and space to relax and rest.

So mom is lonely? There must be a Council on Aging near her . . . with plenty of activities- and if she doesnt drive, there are always transportation options for seniors. Connect her with those resources, and don't let her move in.

Don't do it. All sounds very familiar to me, I have been living with the guilt for too many years now. The one favor that this has perhaps done us both, is that we will never put our own children through the same, at least, not knowingly. I think the option you have given your Mum to move closer to where you live, is very generous. Maybe someone else could have a word in her ear. I wonder if you are maybe like me, an only child. Keep the chin up, and enjoy your lovely Grandchild. Good luck.