My sister threw a fit because she was not permitted to take a lot of my mother's things out of the house after mom went to Assisted Living. The attorney explained that anything that she wants to keep needs to be appraised and put in storage, and the value will be a deducted from her inheritance. My sister is refusing to speak to me and we need to do a clearing of the house. I am scheduling an appraiser next week. She has blocked me on her phone so I cannot even text her with the details. The longer this nonsense goes on the more it's going to cost us in attorneys fees. What do you suggest? I need to move forward with an estate sale. The house has been sitting unoccupied since October 2019.
(When my grandmother died we were all invited to attend her estate sale and bid on any keepsakes we wanted)
https://www.mediate.com/
If your sister will agree to this, you might at least get some movement towards your goal of having the estate sale.
If you are acting in good faith and doing what needs to be done properly and legally it will hold up in court if it comes to that.
I would send her notification in writing Certified with confirmation of delivery, giving her the date and time the appraisal is going to take place.
If you move anything to storage document every item (might even be best if you took photos of everything going into storage.) If items are to be sold notify her of what is going to be sold and when and how. Again certified letters for all communication.
(and I would deduct excess attorney fees from her portion of the estate. But that is if there is anything left since the money raised will be used for mom's care)
The idea of deducting anything from an inheritance which is necessarily hypothetical seems a bit nebulous to me. Unless your mother is so very well off that not even medical and ALF bills can ever make a dent in her finances - but in that case, can the chattels matter so much?
What's the rush with the sale? I mean, I agree it's not good for houses to be unoccupied (things fall apart, waste of good tax money, etc.); and I can understand that you would very much like to get things tidied up; but if push comes to shove is there anything forcing the pace, such as your mother's needing the funds for her ALF?
Only it strikes me that a period of diplomatic silence from you while the attorney gently reminds sister of the responsibilities she accepted with dual POA, and your mother's best interests, and all that, might give her time to collect herself and start behaving. Can you afford to give her that space?
If you can't (or can't be bothered, which would be fair enough too), you could print the appraiser's appointment details on a piece of paper and post it to her. Put "in haste, with compliments" and your initials if you don't feel it should be as blank as that, but don't add another word.
You can't win, you see - if you're conciliatory, she'll either sneer or try to take advantage and then have another fit when she doesn't get it; if you're jolly or humorous, she'll think you're taking the mickey; and if you're business-like she'll accuse you of being insensitive and having no concept of sentimental value. So don't say anything.
I was toying with putting "FYI" - but DON'T. Sarcastic.
Type the envelope. Then she won't bin it unopened.
Or you could email the appraiser to - hem-hem - "confirm" the appointment and cc your sister in on it.
Then hire a house cleaner to clean windows, etc. so the realtor can take pictures and have potential buyers see the house. And, have gardener clean up the yard. Whoever is buying the house can decide what to do with the remaining items in the house. And, the house can be put up for sale sooner since you don't need to take the time to get rid of everything.
TELL YOUR SISTER THINGS SHE TAKES WILL NOT BE DEDUCTED FROM HER INHERITANCE. The inheritance deduction and keeping track of what she's taking is ridiculous in my opinion. DO NOT TAKE HER OR THREATEN TO TAKE HER OFF POA. Your mom wanted dual POA, so leave it that way. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY AN ATTORNEY IS INVOLVED. Shouldn't this be between you and your sister?
The only time an attorney was involved in our case was the elder law attorney. He never mentioned tallying what we were taking and deducting from inheritance. I guess if I couldn't get a hold of my sister, then the attorney or realtor would be the go between. Is that what's happening? In that case, tell the attorney and/or realtor to tell your sister anything you need to tell her, like,
THINGS YOU TAKE/KEEP WILL NOT BE DEDUCTED FROM YOUR INHERITANCE. SORRY, THAT WAS SILLY! WHEN WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME BY MOM'S PLACE TO SEE WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO KEEP OR GIVE TO YOUR KIDS? SOUNDS GREAT! IF ANYTHING IS OF VALUE, WE SHOULD SELL IT AND USE FOR MOM'S CARE.
WE NEED TO SELL THE HOME BECAUSE MOM DOESN'T LIVE THERE AND I NEED YOU TO SIGN THE PAPERS SO WE CAN GET IT DONE. PAPERS WILL BE COMING FOR YOU TO DOCUSIGN IN YOUR EMAIL. THANK YOU!
More than likely she will be taking things of sentimental value, like pictures. And, if you're there first, you can see what is of value first and leave that aside to sell.
If you decide not to sell "as is," do the following:
1. You go first and clean it for a couple of weeks while she's not there, and then she does it a couple of weeks while you're not there.
2. Anything that can be sold (furniture, etc) should be sold and the money used for her care. Email her pics of anything that she might want to keep.
3. Things like dishes and jewelry can be passed down to grandkids. What can't be sold gets hauled away by a junk hauler or a needy family. In our case, I put anything to get rid of in the garage and back patio, and hired a junk hauler to haul it away and clean up the garage and patio when done. A needy family hauled what was left in the house away for free (mostly furniture).
4. #2-4 do not need to be done if you're selling "as is". Make sure the realtor knows exactly what you mean by this and that you are not going to be cleaning out the house.
5. If you do #2-4, hire a housekeeper to clean the windows, floors, baseboards, etc. after cleaning the house out.
6. Contact realtor to take pics of house to sell.
7. Important papers, pictures, etc. taken from mom's home are in my small waterproof storage shed with a lock on the door in my backyard. I'm going to go through it over vacation. Hope this helped! Good luck!
The thing that you could do is practice being patient and kind.
Since you are able to see the bigger picture aside from the emotional perspective, initiate a personal conversation with your sister.
We are both in the same situation, and I cannot do anything since I am the youngest of six and all my sister's doesn't even want to talk about it. But, one by one I try to explain to my eldest sister that the longer the delay the more expensive the cost will have to bear.
So far, the only answer I got is silence.
So good luck to you and wish you the best!
*Really*? Christmas decorations?
I'm sure they are lovely. I'm sure that, for Christmas decorations, they cost an arm and a leg when your mother bought them. I'm sure they are very precious to both you and your sister, for all sorts of aesthetic and sentimental reasons.
But, but, but...
Worth all this? Are they?
Of course your family won't be alone in this difficulty. Thinking back through the root causes of dramatic family feuds I personally have witnessed, often involving very substantial estates indeed, they include:
a Spode Italian Garden butter dish with a blue (not black) maker's mark, which made all the difference;
a small accounting error and dispute about whether to bother correcting same;
a beaten-up old kitchen table.
In each case, both sides had merit to their opposing arguments. With the butter dish, one person already had one, while the other didn't, but the dish already owned was of more recent manufacture and therefore less prized than the mother's; both parties were Spode collectors in a humdrum domestic way but one was the testatrix's daughter and the other only a daughter-in-law, and mother had said (informally, not part of the will) that daughter was to have the Spode. This raged on for MONTHS, if not years. Immoderate things were said on each side about the other. I don't remember what happened in the end - it would have served them both right if somebody had dropped it. I do know I got very tired of hearing about it, and felt disappointed in my friend when somebody else later gave her a whole collection of Spode and she stated she'd rather have it smashed than let her SIL get hold of a single saucer. Nope, still not over it, then.
So - so what?
The trouble with estates (or potential estates) is that they mix quantifiable and unquantifiable values inseparably, in the shape of pre-loved objects, just at a time when people are looking for a fair division of property, AND at a time when people are under very painful emotional pressure to begin with, AND at a time when historical differences and disagreements and grievances tend to get dredged up. It can become a terrible, damaging mess.
Can anybody in the family ask your sister what it would take to smoothe her feathers and allow her to carry out those tasks she agreed to perform? What does she want *now*? If you can find that out, at least you'll know what shape of obstacle you have to get round to fulfil your POA responsibilities without more of this palaver.
It's more of an NLP approach. You begin with the premise: "all behaviour has a positive good intention." Sometimes this can be challenging to accept: e.g. my sister thinks what ours is hers, and what's hers is nailed down, and what could possibly be her positive good intention in this?
Her positive good intention is multiple. E.g.
Mother's possessions go to the most deserving person, who appreciates them properly and has the taste to give them the home they deserve.
If everybody claims what they want, like her, it makes settling the house clearance straightforward. She takes what she wants, that's fine, all done. How could the process be any simpler?
It is a point of principle, to be upheld at all costs.
She is to be proved to be in the right. Again. As always.
And so on - you can add your own, I'm sure you'll do a much better job of it than my guesses.
But your positive good intention is to get the house contents out of there so that you can get the house prepared for sale and sold. Anything that gets in the way of that you want to go round, and not allow it to divert you unprofitably. So she's being a **** about the ornaments? She couldn't bring herself to share a single bauble? Fine! Not worth ten seconds of your time.
Alice's helpful correction below about the household possessions' being exempt items for Medicaid assessment purposes applies, does it? - that's so where you live? In that case, WHY oppose your sister? What do you stand to gain? If you'd set your heart on owning these objects before, or if your mother had expressed specific wishes, it would be different, you might well need to take a stand; but as it is - you don't.
In opposing her, your positive good intention has changed. You're now not trying to get the house cleared, you're attempting to correct your sister's bratty behaviour and make her be less awful. You have allowed yourself to be distracted from what is actually important to YOU. Why even bother to notice her grasping if it isn't necessary for you to do so?
She is running around shouting "MINE! MINE! MINE!" You aren't doing that; but in blocking her and saying "no not yours put it back and don't be so unbelievably selfish" you are nonetheless joining in her Competitive Siblings game, and that is stopping you getting on with the useful purpose you want to accomplish.
Refocus. What gets the house cleared quickest and with least trouble?
Since everything is to be shared between you, the best bet is to have everything evaluated by appraiser. Make a list of all items in the home and an estimate from a realtor about the house's proposed sale price. Then, let your sister know how much "value" she can expect to receive. Send her a second list of all the items you would like to have. She should do the same. It would be easier if she would agree to arbitration for any items that both of you want but can't agree upon. Otherwise, the items in contention should be sold. Another option is to "buy out" the other sister's share of the item since it appears that resale value may be a motivation here.
I would suggest selling the house rather than living in it. Your sister may demand rent from you since you are delaying her getting her share of the house's value.
Your sister may claim that you should pay her rent if you don't sell the house to cover her portion of the value she won't get for awhile.
My understanding is their mother is still alive, living in some kind of AL.
Until their mother passes away, NEITHER should be getting a dime from the sale of the home. Living in it would solve the insurance issue, but if mom needs the assets for her facility, it should be sold and the net set aside in a trust or account for MOM. Until mom passes, technically she still owns EVERYTHING, house, and contents. Bickering over items before mom has even died seems incredibly petty.
Maybe it would help both of you to write down what you would have texted or said to her as you go in hopes that she will eventually read it.
How does the POA read?
My brother and I are dual POA , and it reads one OR the other.
Meaning that we can do things independently of each other. I don't need his cooperation to proceed with my Aunts buisness.
Fortunately for me, my brother has been completely hands off.
I suggest you do exactly what you're attorney tells you to do, but it may be that you can keep moving forward without your sisters input.
Best wishes
I am so sorry your sister is not talking to you. Sadly, this happens so often. Everyone has a different response to death. I always thought families come together in love and support. In realty some do but many do not. Good luck wrapping this up so you can move on.
You should listen to your lawyer and get going on this. Do not let house sit vacant with valuables!!!!!!
The neighbors were dumping their trash on the property all that time and stealing anything not nailed down. I had to pay thousands to clean it up. She let the heat get shut off yrs ago. Ruined the floors, and beams in basement that held up house are crumbling. A house with no heat gets damp in about 3 days. So now its 8yrs. House is toast. Cant be fixed. All because she didnt feel like dealing with it. She stole valuables and left country.
Do not let this go on and clear your moms house. Your sister can be a part of the solution or she can go sulk. Let her. At least you can salvage your moms property. Dont let neighbors find out she is gone or they will break into the house. Get moving on this right away! Time is of the essence. The neighbors will start watching your comings and goings. Dont even trust a friendly neighbor!!!
Just ignore sibling and get moving. Or you will both have nothing left. She will come around when items needed to be sold off for moms care. Or you will take care of it. Get that house emptied ASAP!!!
This is likely true. I found out from mom's insurance provider that they wouldn't cover unoccupied homes. IF you are living in it, problem solved, but you said it's been unoccupied since October. Since it could take some time and wrangling to resolve issues, you should inquire with the insurance agent. If they say it's not covered, you need to find another agent - we paid for the year, but once the place was sold, we got a refund for some of it. You really should look into this - if anything happens to the house and contents, then all this wrangling will be for naught.
Now, for the squabbles:
Since your mother is still alive, TECHNICALLY everything is STILL hers. I would be more concerned about Medicaid. IF anything has any REAL value (genuine antiques, not something you THINK has value), you need to beware giving/taking any of these items unless you each pay for them and use the funds for mom - if you're getting items appraised, then you should each pay for them and put the funds into an account for your mother's care. Your mother isn't dead yet, so TECHNICALLY neither of you can "inherit" ANY property. We donated or disposed of most of mom's things, as there was no real value. Sure, older furniture, but for the most part they are all a dime a dozen. Wait for the appraisal! My brothers each took some items, I didn't want much of anything, but OB brought a lot of what I consider junk to my place instead of disposing of it! Now I have to get rid of it!
"Generally, though, the government considers certain assets (usually up to a specific allowable amount) to be exempt. Any cash, savings, investments or property that exceed these limits are considered “countable” assets and will disqualify an applicant." from https://www.agingcare.com/articles/asset-limits-to-qualify-for-medicaid-141681.htm
Putting items into storage might deplete mom's assets, but it might be the only way short of going to court (storage would likely be less expensive) until you both resolve the issues. Clearly the mediation isn't working, so unless one of you backs down, court may be the answer - beware the cost of that vs anything of value, and the court could say boo to you both and appoint a guardian, then you each get NOTHING.
"...plus $$$s in furniture and collectables."
Unless the furniture items are truly antiques, don't expect much from them. "Collectables" - are you talking things like Hummels, or similar items? Those, in general, are not worth what was paid for them. You can look them up yourself. My cousin found this out and I have looked up the value of various "collectables" - don't waste time on this crap. Might be wise to wait for appraisal of items. You might be pleasantly surprised or you might be seriously disappointed (the Xmas decos might have some personal value, maybe you could take one or two that you feel represent your memories and hand the rest to her?)
NOTE: "My mom was a collector of many beautiful things and her Will stated that everything was to be shared."
Again, many collectables are not worth much, BUT EVEN MORE IMPORTANT - your mother is NOT dead yet, so what the will states has NO IMPACT on anything!
Final thoughts:
IF these items are really worth something, how much of that "worth" is being lost to wrangling, using the attorney as mediator? Is ANY of this really worth fighting over?
As for weighing how much work/effort/time was spent cleaning up, organizing, etc, let that go as well. It generally always ends up being one or two who do all the work, while the others skate and/or complain. I spent over 1.5 YEARS cleaning, clearing and repairing mom's condo, plus the time working with realtor/sale, while 2 brothers spent very little time helping, mainly with the big items I couldn't move.
Get over/past it. It ISN'T worth it in the end. As George Carlin says, it's just "stuff." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac
even if there’s nothing in the house.
Original reply: Cannot help but ask - do other siblings want the things that sister is asking for? If not, why deduct them from inheritance money? If it's just to keep everything totally equal, perhaps there are things that are sentimental to her that you can't really put a price on. And an appraisal is really a guestimate of a price anyway. Appraiser can say the old player piano is worth over two grand, but finding a buyer in your area for that same piano may never fetch close to that amount in selling it.
Maybe sweeten the pot and make an estate sale easier for everyone. Have siblings make a list of things they want out of the house and send to you. Then look only at items that more than one person asked for. For those items only, make a list to return to siblings. You might put estimated values only on these items. Tell them, more than one of us wants these items, so prioritize all of these things in the order of importance to you. If everyone wants the $10,000 diamond ring that has been in the family for years and it is listed as #1 priority for everyone, maybe it would be listed as an item that will be used value-wise when determining total inheritance shares. You might find that you could distribute much of the belongings without having to consider value (the old rocking chair to sister, the old bedroom set to brother, etc). Whatever is left over goes to the estate sale. -- Maybe just another approach to moving the belongings.
I wish that families would have an open conversation while the person is still alive and coherent. If you want a picture or an ornament or a ring that really means something to you, then ask if you can have it and that it be specified in the will. Have all of your children in the same room at the same time having the same conversation so that everyone knows what is going to happen. I know it's hard for some folks to think about their own demise and who gets their possessions after they die, but it would save families from fighting and falling apart. Hind sight 20/20 right...
I plan on asking my daughter what she wants of mine and giving it to her while I am still capable of seeing her enjoy it.
Good Luck sadexecutor. You've got a long road ahead of you. I hope your sister calms down enough to help you with all of this and realize what is important.
Then during a meeting to update parents’ wills, youngest sister (who never played with the trains growing up & wasn’t interested in them) let it slip that the 3 brothers got together & agreed the trains would go to the 1st great grandson. Dad almost had a stroke right there in the lawyer’s office. He insisted it be put in his will that I would have first right of refusal for the trains.
When we moved into a larger home with room to set up & keep up the train set, Dad wanted me to take them “to settle it once & for all” (his words). We did not because 3 boys in 4 years, with the youngest being 4, & both parents working FT was stressful enough. Toss in an expensive & well-preserved train set & it would have pushed me over the edge.
Then I forgot about them until Dad passed and I still was reluctant to take them. Sister tried to ignore the “first right of refusal” clause in the will, claiming Dad verbally changed his mind. Lawyer who she was working with to execute the will was the same one who helped write the will & vividly recalled the conversation. I agreed to leave them in mom’s attic for another year & would decide then, as so many other areas of the house needed purging. During that year, youngest (& most vocal) brother cleaned out the attic & took them all. I think my husband was more upset about them than I was. Obviously I no longer cared about them.
Fast forward 3 years & he is now going thru a divorce. During that time, his soon-to-be-exwife invited me over for something or other when he was out of town. When I got there, she took me to the basement where the trains were stored, suggested I take them while I could, and told me how he specifically took them so I couldn’t have them. I declined.
He took them 12 years ago & he still hasn’t set them up. I found 2 engineer hats in my attic & gave them to him for his great grandchildren if he ever does get around to playing trains with them. Obviously, I had moved past wanting them.
It is amazing how sibling rivalry morphs into fights over materialistic items. In my husband’s case, it was a snowblower.
I went through probate after my parents passed (different then your current situation). However anything my siblings and myself wanted from the estate was deducted from their final inheritance. My sister wanted parents car, well she got it but she paid fair market value and monies came from her portion of her inheritance.
Im not an attorney, so I leave you with Caveat Emptor. & Good Luck