My sister threw a fit because she was not permitted to take a lot of my mother's things out of the house after mom went to Assisted Living. The attorney explained that anything that she wants to keep needs to be appraised and put in storage, and the value will be a deducted from her inheritance. My sister is refusing to speak to me and we need to do a clearing of the house. I am scheduling an appraiser next week. She has blocked me on her phone so I cannot even text her with the details. The longer this nonsense goes on the more it's going to cost us in attorneys fees. What do you suggest? I need to move forward with an estate sale. The house has been sitting unoccupied since October 2019.
Take your money and get an apartment. Is there anything that would prevent the sale, a legal issue? I don’t know. That’s why I have to ask you.
Please don’t get defensive. I would like to see you at peace and put all of this mess behind you.
Don’t even try to convince your sister of anything. Speak to your mom. Tell her what your sister is doing.
Your mom needs to settle this issue for the two of you. Why is your mom setting you and your sister up like this? She is setting both of you up to be enemies.
My mom did that too. Guess what? I gave up. I went no contact with my siblings and my mom. Not worth it. I did all that I could. I refuse to stay in toxic relationships.
Your situation is different but the chaos is the same. If you start having physical or mental issues from all of this crap, then where does that leave you or your mom?
I ended up with high blood pressure and seeing a cardiologist. Like I said, not worth it to me. I truly appreciate that you love your mom. Continue to see your mom but without stressing about your sister.
I love my mom. I don’t have any feelings left for my siblings. I will not allow my mom to wreck havoc in my life. I cared for her for two decades, 15 years in my home. I did more than my share.
I hope it will work out for you but it seems to be hanging in limbo for now. What will your attorney do to help remedy this nightmare that you are faced with?
I am not trying to upset you. I know it’s disturbing to be in a situation like this but is it worth it? Really? You don’t have respect from your sister. Your mom is allowing it to continue. So, what’s next?
What exactly do you want your sister to do? Or your mom? I am sorry if I am a bit confused about your situation.
Your mom means well by giving equal POA but look what it has caused. You’re at each other’s throats.
You keep talking about your sister’s mental illness and drinking. Something drove her to that. People who are content in their lives don’t solve issues by drinking. She is just as miserable as you are. I am not saying that you have to like her but have you tried to understand why she is why she is?
What exactly is this ‘mental illness’ that you are referring to? Depression? Anxiety? Bipolar disorder? Is she on meds? Does she see a mental health professional for her problems?
What’s the whole story here? We only have your side. What would she say about you or your mom? I am not taking sides but there is always two sides to a story.
Good luck to you. I hope you find a solution soon. You sound very stressed out.
Sis has manic depression. Diagnosed at 16. Yes she is on meds but they don't work when she drinks like she does. I actually saved her life about 5 years ago. She was so sick that She was delirious and an ambulance forced her to go to the hospital. She was told not to drink. She had pancreatitis. She still drinks.
I have given up trying to teach her a lesson. I have moved forward with the clean out of the house without her. She is happy to have someone else do the work. I have contacted my cousins, who live about an hour away, and they are more than happy to help me.
My husband is mad at me because I am giving in. I told him that is not worth the stress.
You have not offended me. I am over it.
I sent my sister a message through her work email, detailing a meeting that I had with an estate liquidator. There is so much work to be done that we will be paying out thousands of dollars and there will be nothing left for Mom. I told her that I will be doing the work instead, along with family and they will be paid. She does not want to pay them. As far as I am concerned they will be paid and the work will get done. If she wants to take me to civil court she's welcome to do that. I will win.
I'm looking forward to having time with my cousins and doing this as a family.
So far my sister is still uninvolved other than responding to my email. I spent 5 hours yesterday at mother's home cleaning, hauling out trash and assessing more inventory. The cousins come next weekend.
Thank you for your concern. I am at peace with my decision -moving forward.
I hear you there. Although the house & contents was not quite 2 years, I was handling finances, appointments, grocery shopping, etc. to help my mother for a while before that as well, plus the researching places, calling, looking, etc., and getting everything for the trusts set up. So in all it was probably closer to 4 years of my time (before the move.) Only 2 of us were named POA (OB isn't local, wasn't here to sign anything) - it doesn't specify we are "co", but for the most part he hasn't done anything with his POA. Getting an answer to anything from him is like pulling elephant tusks! Sometimes I resort to asking if he's still alive! Mental AND physical exhaustion, plus anger. It isn't worth it. While it might be nice to have a few mementos that you cherish, your sanity and peace of mind are worth MUCH more.
Even now, as we proceed with year 4 in MC, who gets all the work? Me. Sure, I could offload to him, but I know everything would fall apart! Ordering and keeping track of her meds, briefs, buying the OTC items she needs, etc, juggling the finances, taxes, payments, etc would not get done right! He couldn't even remember to pick her up for a dentist visit on the right day (cost $50 for no show!), despite my text msgs to remind him!
"As harsh as some of the comments have been I recognize that I need to let it go."
I am probably one of those in the "harsh" camp, but really we were only trying to put perspective on the issues. Sometimes it is easier AND better for you to just let it all go. The toll it can take on you isn't worth it. You still have your memories.
"I was really hoping I could get her to understand her bad behavior..."
You did post several times about how she has been like this most/all her life, so clearly nothing you could do or say is going to change that! In a comment to someone else's comment, I mention my OB. He was physically and psychologically abusive to me when we were kids. All these years I thought he "outgrew" this, but he hasn't. It is who he is. Unfortunately I missed the subtle signals during the first few trips up to help cleaning out the condo (only maybe 3-4 weeks all total in the more than a year and a half it took to get it all done and dusted!) His last trip was to be 2 weeks, stay at my place, visit mom and help clearing/cleaning. He didn't last 1 week. Bad mouthing you on Facebook is nothing, just lies. Have it yelled at you AFTER throwing you to the floor twice, ranting, raving, cursing up a storm while packing his stuff (after the floor treatment, I told him to get the F out.) The thing with people like that, they get "over" it - he kept loading his car with more mom crap and bringing it here afterwards (out Fri, back to my place M-W.) I would not answer or open the door, yet he would sit here for an hour waiting. I even called for police escort the first day, so I could go home! Had to make a statement and the officer wanted me to press charges. By the time we got here, he was gone. Officer wanted to call him, but I said no, he will be going back home Sat, and won't be welcome back - I didn't want to start trouble, but my statement was on record, so if he DID start something, I could change my mind!
I am over it, because I am done with him. He's back down south and can stay there. He is not and never will be welcome here again.
"My mother is what is most important because she does not have many more years left. I have such a good time when I visit her and make her laugh. That is worth more than the stuff in her house. They will be my final memories of her."
EXACTLY! Put all that misguided energy into enjoying the time you have left with your mom! You will NOT regret that! CHEERS!
You mention that it says in the will that the items should be split between you and your sister right? You said an appraiser is going to give you a list of the items and their value. You can send your sister a copy of the list along with a copy of the will by certified mail. You can advise that she is entitled to items that equal half the value and that means half the Christmas ornaments if they are of major sentimental value. You can even check off the items you would like to claim before sending the list. You can mention that if there are items you've claimed that she feels like she'd like to have, you are willing to negotiate for those items and have her send you her list.
But first, before you do any of these things, you should make sure that your mom is onboard with you dissolving her estate and that it is legal for you to do so. (I'm guessing the equity in the house will have to be perserved until after your mom's passing and frankly the value of the contents may need to be too. Only the attorney can advise you on that matter.)
Then, if there are things that you just can't agree on, if it were me, I'd give in and give them to your sister and take something else of equal value. Do what you can to take the focus off the material component of this difficult task and get it behind you.
Spend the rest of the time, loving on your mom while you can, even if she isn't able to respond. Put your sister behind you as well. You will most likely feel anger and resentment towards her for the rest of your life anyway unless you learn to just let her go.
For the last 5 years I have struggled and struggled to let go of a relationship with my own sister in law. (We grew up together and raised our kids together and she was the only sister I ever knew.) I finally read a book that helped me understand that while I was just devastated by the break up of our relationship, she did not care about it at all and I was only hurting myself by continuing to reach out over and over. A good book to read is "Adult Children of Immature Parents." I read it to help my nieces cope with my sister in laws (their mother) behavior but it ended up helping me as much as it helped them. I then went on to read "But It's Your Family". That's another very helpful resource for people like us who would like to fix relationships that simply can't be repaired right now and may never be repaired.
1.Make a plan for dividing these material items once you have the appraisal list.
2.Check with the attorney about the legality of dividing the contents prior to your moms passing.
3.Pass the list on to your sister.
4.Negotiate by email or mail to avoid tantrums and be prepared to receive responses that are negative or sarcastic but don't let that deter you from your goal.
5.Give up items even though they mean something and take something else of equal value to move the process along.
6.Close the file and don't look back.
Whatever happens, move away from your relationship with your sister and forgive her and feel love and mercy towards her. You may never have a relationship with her again in this lifetime and that's okay. Time may heal this wound or other circumstances may heal this wound but be prepared to completely let go and live your life without her in it.
It's easier said than done but at the end of the day, material things are fleeting. Narcissistic family members will wreak havoc on your life and it's better for your health and happiness to just let these things & people go. Meditation has helped me so much with living alongside these sorrows and just accepting them as they are without judgement.
Best of luck to you and I hope you are able so share precious moments with your mother. You're a wonderful daughter. Be loving and strong.
As I have read through this post I got the idea that your sister figured she would get all the expensive doodads because you would be living rent free in mom's house until??? This is the unfortunate result when off spring start spending their perceived inheritance before they actually have it in hand.
At the end of the day there may not be 2 pennies to rub together. Mom could outlive her long term insurance and require every dollar that she has to provide her with care.
When you liquidate moms assets you would be wise to ensure that the money is protected for mom. Sister having joint POA puts her in a position to steal moms money and leave mom out in the cold.
Greedy siblings are a PITA and the idea that she is trying to pick mama's bones before she has died is repulsive.
I hope you can protect your mom and her future care.
Did your mom do this so it would be ‘fair’ or what? All she did was pit the two of you against each other. Trust me, I know how that feels. Sadly, lots of parents set up their kids for a disaster.
Would your mom consider removing her as POA and letting you handle all legal matters? Is she of sound mind and deemed capable to do that?
Would your mom update her will stating that you are to receive such and such specific items and your sister can have equal value of other things?
Your sister is not going to be reasonable. You already know that. There is no sibling relationship to destroy because the two of you have never been close.
Yes, Facebook posts may be embarrassing but anyone that knows your sister is not going to give her much credence. It seems like you are the one with all the credibility so forget about what she has to say.
I don’t have a good relationship with my siblings and I could give a rat’s azz what they say about me.
I won’t get any sentimental items either and I have accepted it. Long story and I won’t go into it.
The question becomes how far do you want this to go? What are you obligated to do legally? What can you convince your mom to do? Sounds like she babies and enabled your sister.
I lived through my mom showing favoritism and enabling siblings and I was the responsible one too. Me? I threw in the towel. Wasn’t worth it anymore. I surrendered. Went no contact.
I don’t have any right to tell you how to feel or what to do. I respect your feelings whatever they may be. I wish you the very best in finding the right solution in this messy matter. Good luck.
"The house doesn't even need to be sold. We agreed that I would live there for a couple years and then probably have to sell it."
To qualify for Medicaid the home, if rented, has to be at market rates. When sold, has to be at market price. I suspect Medicaid may question you living there and not paying rent. That could alone disqualify mom from receiving Medicaid.
This is especially puzzling. The home is mom's largest asset, most likely and would pay for facility for a year or longer. You could argue that you are helping the situation by lowering insurance cost if home was not occupied. It will not fly. And you want to clear the home so you can live there?
My former home was not occupied for period of time following the years I cared for mom. Long story. My insurance went from $1,400 a year to $4,500 a year! The home needs to be prepped for sale and sold to pay for mom's care. Yet you are arguing and engaging attorneys on mom's dime to continue the fight over stuff? Doesn't make much sense.
The concern over stuff? Is there concern over the cost of rent?
I don't see a conundrum. It is easy if mom is the priority.
Why would storage come out of mom's funds if these are things sis wants?
Let go of the wanting to teach sis a lesson. She is too old and it will not work. Only create more friction.
Been there.
Twisted sissies decided to put items into storage with the intent of getting it out, SOMETIME. That was four years ago now. Things finally out of storage last August. How much was spent on storage over that four years? More than $25,000.00! Four years later TS was claiming no value to any of the items!
Out of sight out of mind. Try to be reasonable and do as mom would do.
Distributing household items do not need to impact Medicaid eligibility only if they are appraised then sold for less than appraised value.. Imagine the Medicaid back up for applications if household items were to be scrutinized! You don't want to open up that Pandora's box.
Good luck and prayers to you.
My freedom is definitely on its way
I went through probate after my parents passed (different then your current situation). However anything my siblings and myself wanted from the estate was deducted from their final inheritance. My sister wanted parents car, well she got it but she paid fair market value and monies came from her portion of her inheritance.
Im not an attorney, so I leave you with Caveat Emptor. & Good Luck
Then during a meeting to update parents’ wills, youngest sister (who never played with the trains growing up & wasn’t interested in them) let it slip that the 3 brothers got together & agreed the trains would go to the 1st great grandson. Dad almost had a stroke right there in the lawyer’s office. He insisted it be put in his will that I would have first right of refusal for the trains.
When we moved into a larger home with room to set up & keep up the train set, Dad wanted me to take them “to settle it once & for all” (his words). We did not because 3 boys in 4 years, with the youngest being 4, & both parents working FT was stressful enough. Toss in an expensive & well-preserved train set & it would have pushed me over the edge.
Then I forgot about them until Dad passed and I still was reluctant to take them. Sister tried to ignore the “first right of refusal” clause in the will, claiming Dad verbally changed his mind. Lawyer who she was working with to execute the will was the same one who helped write the will & vividly recalled the conversation. I agreed to leave them in mom’s attic for another year & would decide then, as so many other areas of the house needed purging. During that year, youngest (& most vocal) brother cleaned out the attic & took them all. I think my husband was more upset about them than I was. Obviously I no longer cared about them.
Fast forward 3 years & he is now going thru a divorce. During that time, his soon-to-be-exwife invited me over for something or other when he was out of town. When I got there, she took me to the basement where the trains were stored, suggested I take them while I could, and told me how he specifically took them so I couldn’t have them. I declined.
He took them 12 years ago & he still hasn’t set them up. I found 2 engineer hats in my attic & gave them to him for his great grandchildren if he ever does get around to playing trains with them. Obviously, I had moved past wanting them.
It is amazing how sibling rivalry morphs into fights over materialistic items. In my husband’s case, it was a snowblower.
I wish that families would have an open conversation while the person is still alive and coherent. If you want a picture or an ornament or a ring that really means something to you, then ask if you can have it and that it be specified in the will. Have all of your children in the same room at the same time having the same conversation so that everyone knows what is going to happen. I know it's hard for some folks to think about their own demise and who gets their possessions after they die, but it would save families from fighting and falling apart. Hind sight 20/20 right...
I plan on asking my daughter what she wants of mine and giving it to her while I am still capable of seeing her enjoy it.
Good Luck sadexecutor. You've got a long road ahead of you. I hope your sister calms down enough to help you with all of this and realize what is important.
Original reply: Cannot help but ask - do other siblings want the things that sister is asking for? If not, why deduct them from inheritance money? If it's just to keep everything totally equal, perhaps there are things that are sentimental to her that you can't really put a price on. And an appraisal is really a guestimate of a price anyway. Appraiser can say the old player piano is worth over two grand, but finding a buyer in your area for that same piano may never fetch close to that amount in selling it.
Maybe sweeten the pot and make an estate sale easier for everyone. Have siblings make a list of things they want out of the house and send to you. Then look only at items that more than one person asked for. For those items only, make a list to return to siblings. You might put estimated values only on these items. Tell them, more than one of us wants these items, so prioritize all of these things in the order of importance to you. If everyone wants the $10,000 diamond ring that has been in the family for years and it is listed as #1 priority for everyone, maybe it would be listed as an item that will be used value-wise when determining total inheritance shares. You might find that you could distribute much of the belongings without having to consider value (the old rocking chair to sister, the old bedroom set to brother, etc). Whatever is left over goes to the estate sale. -- Maybe just another approach to moving the belongings.
even if there’s nothing in the house.
This is likely true. I found out from mom's insurance provider that they wouldn't cover unoccupied homes. IF you are living in it, problem solved, but you said it's been unoccupied since October. Since it could take some time and wrangling to resolve issues, you should inquire with the insurance agent. If they say it's not covered, you need to find another agent - we paid for the year, but once the place was sold, we got a refund for some of it. You really should look into this - if anything happens to the house and contents, then all this wrangling will be for naught.
Now, for the squabbles:
Since your mother is still alive, TECHNICALLY everything is STILL hers. I would be more concerned about Medicaid. IF anything has any REAL value (genuine antiques, not something you THINK has value), you need to beware giving/taking any of these items unless you each pay for them and use the funds for mom - if you're getting items appraised, then you should each pay for them and put the funds into an account for your mother's care. Your mother isn't dead yet, so TECHNICALLY neither of you can "inherit" ANY property. We donated or disposed of most of mom's things, as there was no real value. Sure, older furniture, but for the most part they are all a dime a dozen. Wait for the appraisal! My brothers each took some items, I didn't want much of anything, but OB brought a lot of what I consider junk to my place instead of disposing of it! Now I have to get rid of it!
"Generally, though, the government considers certain assets (usually up to a specific allowable amount) to be exempt. Any cash, savings, investments or property that exceed these limits are considered “countable” assets and will disqualify an applicant." from https://www.agingcare.com/articles/asset-limits-to-qualify-for-medicaid-141681.htm
Putting items into storage might deplete mom's assets, but it might be the only way short of going to court (storage would likely be less expensive) until you both resolve the issues. Clearly the mediation isn't working, so unless one of you backs down, court may be the answer - beware the cost of that vs anything of value, and the court could say boo to you both and appoint a guardian, then you each get NOTHING.
"...plus $$$s in furniture and collectables."
Unless the furniture items are truly antiques, don't expect much from them. "Collectables" - are you talking things like Hummels, or similar items? Those, in general, are not worth what was paid for them. You can look them up yourself. My cousin found this out and I have looked up the value of various "collectables" - don't waste time on this crap. Might be wise to wait for appraisal of items. You might be pleasantly surprised or you might be seriously disappointed (the Xmas decos might have some personal value, maybe you could take one or two that you feel represent your memories and hand the rest to her?)
NOTE: "My mom was a collector of many beautiful things and her Will stated that everything was to be shared."
Again, many collectables are not worth much, BUT EVEN MORE IMPORTANT - your mother is NOT dead yet, so what the will states has NO IMPACT on anything!
Final thoughts:
IF these items are really worth something, how much of that "worth" is being lost to wrangling, using the attorney as mediator? Is ANY of this really worth fighting over?
As for weighing how much work/effort/time was spent cleaning up, organizing, etc, let that go as well. It generally always ends up being one or two who do all the work, while the others skate and/or complain. I spent over 1.5 YEARS cleaning, clearing and repairing mom's condo, plus the time working with realtor/sale, while 2 brothers spent very little time helping, mainly with the big items I couldn't move.
Get over/past it. It ISN'T worth it in the end. As George Carlin says, it's just "stuff." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac
You should listen to your lawyer and get going on this. Do not let house sit vacant with valuables!!!!!!
The neighbors were dumping their trash on the property all that time and stealing anything not nailed down. I had to pay thousands to clean it up. She let the heat get shut off yrs ago. Ruined the floors, and beams in basement that held up house are crumbling. A house with no heat gets damp in about 3 days. So now its 8yrs. House is toast. Cant be fixed. All because she didnt feel like dealing with it. She stole valuables and left country.
Do not let this go on and clear your moms house. Your sister can be a part of the solution or she can go sulk. Let her. At least you can salvage your moms property. Dont let neighbors find out she is gone or they will break into the house. Get moving on this right away! Time is of the essence. The neighbors will start watching your comings and goings. Dont even trust a friendly neighbor!!!
Just ignore sibling and get moving. Or you will both have nothing left. She will come around when items needed to be sold off for moms care. Or you will take care of it. Get that house emptied ASAP!!!