How to get fluids for dying mom when the hospital won't take her and hospice doesn't give them?

Why is she not eligible for Hospice?

There are Catholic-affiliated Hospice groups. I think you should talk to a Medically-knowledgeable Catholic priest about the Church's position on giving/forcing fluids when someone is dying.

According to your post she is eating and drinking but barely.

When a person is dying they will naturally stop wanting food and water.

Forcing her to eat or drink can be painful for her because her body is shutting down. Her kidney are shutting down forcing fluids her body can't process would be torture for your mother. As would dialysis.

She is not asking for water or food and being refused either.

I think you are misinterpreting your religious teachings.

To feed or to give fluids to a person when they are dying can cause more pain and discomfort.
The body does not know how to process the food and it it "busy" keeping the heart beating, lungs working and brain functioning.
Fluids may be aspirated causing more problems.
Fluids may also travel to layers between muscle and skin causing skin to swell and split.
Offer a moist swab dipped in water to moisten the mouth. Run the swab over the lips, tongue. Do not give ice chips, just the moist swab.
I am sorry you are going through this and so sorry that Hospice has not explained the reasoning behind the reasons for not giving fluids.

OKay, the Catholic Church says no such thing about leaving someone without fluids. How do I know this with absolute certainty?
My dad passed away in a Catholic hospice, which is one of the best in NYC. They are aware that during the dying process fluids are no longer necessary and though, they did support him with IV for a while, when he was close to death, they stopped. I am sorry to say, but your mom may be in the dying process. May you find comfort in memories, may her transition be pain free and peaceful. Sending sympathy and hugs during a difficult time.

Did I understand correctly, she’s not on hospice? If not call her Dr and demand it. That would be the compassionate thing to do.

Yes, get hospice and listen to medical professionals, not what you think the Catholic Church believes, because you're wrong.

The Catholic Church prohibits suicide and murder. Letting Nature take its course is neither. My husband and his family are mega-Catholics, and when my FIL hit his head and had a massive brain bleed, they all followed the doctor's advice and unplugged him from life support and let NATURE take its course.

You wanting to force fluids on a dying woman is interfering with God's will, not to mention bad medicine that will cause immense suffering. Do not believe you know more about what is to happen to your mother than a doctor or especially God. He frowns upon humans who presume to do that sort of thing.

Hospice only stops fluids when the person is actively dying. First sign is person can no longer swallow. The stomach stops digesting food. The person is no longer thirsty or hungry.

I suggest that you call her PCP and have an order written up for Hospice. They will come in and evaluate Mom. Please have someone there with you. 4 ears are better than two. What you don't pick up they may. And listen because people misinterpret Hospice a lot.

Hospice is end of life. They do not kill people, their job is to make the patient comfortable. Yes Morphine is used for this purpose. Besides helping with pain, it helps with breathing. The patient is never given enough to overdose them.

Please consider hospice for your mother. It is true that when a body is coming to to the end of life, food and fluid are no longer needed.
See if you can meet directly with a hospice outreach team member (ask for a nurse, if possible, as your questions are ones that nurses tend to have most knowledge) and listen to their answers to your concerns.
Your mom may very well be slowly transitioning toward end of life already. That is the gentle slowing and shutting down of the body's functions. At some point this can become a faster process - active transitioning - and hospice can provide great help with any changes in this stage, which may include signs of distress.
I think of it as the body and the spirit take a long time to 'come apart' at the end of life, with the spirit returning to wherever it is before we are born. (Also raised Catholic, former hospice nurse.) Hoping for comfort for you and your mom

Thank you for all your answers. They are very welcome as my mom is in the process of dying and after really looking into it, what we were told long ago by a priest was no longer relevant (or maybe never was and we got the wrong information). Mom seems happy and peaceful and is being looked after by the people at the home where she lives, gently and respectfully as they have done so many times for others. If she winds up having to go to a nursing home before she dies, we will call in hospice.

Giving fluids when the body cannot handle fluids is cruel. The Catholic Church is not a doctor. If it were understood that the giving of fluids would cause your Mom to pretty much blow up like a balloon full of fluid and cause her lungs to fill with fluid I doubt there would be any insistence on giving fluids. The church is there to handle your Mom's spiritual needs. The doctors are there to handle her physical needs. Allow each specialty to remain in their own corral.
I very much hope that Mom now has Hospice as she makes her final exit from this life. She deserves comfort as she goes toward her peace and her eternal life according to your and her beliefs.

Mom has made the decision that she is ready. Forcing her to take liquids is cruel and painful. Let mom go peacefully.💔💔💔. Sending my prayers and love.

She sure sounds like a candidate for Hospice to me. I’m not sure why you believe she isn’t but all it takes is a doctors referral and then they will assess her wherever she is and either provide comfort care there or move her to a Hospice facility. There are often multiple organizations providing Hospice care in an area so you might look into the best fit for you and Mom. In the meantime using the little sponges they have for moistening her mouth will also provide a little wanted/hydration and keep her mouth comfortable if she is unable to swallow or drink much and her doctor should have a better idea of wether or not IV fluids would be helpful or harmful, it can vary from patient to patient, case to case and I just don’t have enough information or training to say.

Please don’t spend all of this special and valuable time running around worrying about her, that’s what Hospice is for, you know she is in the process of dying and as long as she seems happy and comfortable spend your time just being with her. Sometimes these are the most precious moments you can have through the aging parent process and they provide peaceful memories and closure after they pass on.

Intravenously! Beyond that, the Church should listen to science, just like the rest of us!

Wow. Why won't hospice take her? I would have another hospice assess her pronto! If she was evaluated for inpatient hospice and denied it is because she is not close enough to death for admission. Consider moving her to a skilled facility as adult homes are not capable of managing a line necessary for IV fluids. People quit eating and drinking as they move toward death. If she was in the hospital for at least three nights, she would be eligible for medicare admission to a nursing home for the next 30 days. Have an ambulance take her to the hospital and refuse to take her home to force their social work department to find a suitable placement that will be able to give her iv fluids. Sometimes you have to be a bully to get what a loved one needs. Be your Moms bully. She needs you. Also home hospice could administer and supervise iv fluids. I am so glad you are standing by your mother.

I am not a doctor or nurse, but I did watch both my parents pass. One with hospice, the other at the hospital. Dying isn’t necessarily pretty, but provided you can keep your LO comfortable, the transitioning occurs and he/she leaves this world. I personally believe we return to full light & go home to be with the Lord and all those who passed previously. This makes the concept of dying less scary and more comforting. People at the end don’t need food and water b/c their body is readying itself physically and spiritually to move on. Forcing fluids and food is actually detrimental. You can wet a sponge and wipe the lips or apply some Vaseline to keep them moist. Your LO will likely see/talk to friends & family who’ve already passed. This is normal too. They can often hear you even when they’re beyond being able to respond. Tell them what you need to say and let them know you’ll be ok and it’s alright to go now. God bless you - this is hard, but you’ll manage😊

The IV serum. Also report this immediately to Senior Justice. They work institutional neglects on elders. https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjhztbmmOf5AhWZFq0GHQa1BUQYABAFGgJwdg&sig=AOD64_0U7eD-XlZsX3qYCSUJUVcPC7B7aA&ved=2ahUKEwjhrsrmmOf5AhV-K0QIHd5RBioQgQ16BAgGEAc&adurl=

Let her be. It is in God’s hands now.

I think the hardest part about utilizing hospice services is getting over the idea that, when you see someone in distress, to do something or call someone.

We start training our kids from an extremely young age to call for help if they need it or see someone who needs it; I remember in preschool, my kids learning about calling 911 in the case of an emergency.

Then we grow into adults, many of us have children, some of us become caregivers for elderly family. We end up with years under our belts of when we see someone in need of help, we give it. If the help that person needs is above our paygrade, we call someone who CAN give help. We learn through experience what distress looks like, even if it isn't spoken. We learn that the sooner we render aid - or get someone else to do it - the less the damage will be. We start to try and anticipate the needs, to stave off the potential emergency.

Then when the end is near, we call in hospice.

Even if, logically, you understand that hospice is EOL care, that their mission it to try their best to ensure a peaceful, non-painful passing, emotionally it is something very different. To stand by and allow nature to take it's course, with only comfort care medication given - it goes against almost every instinct we've developed and sharpened in our years of caregiving.

I remember the night my mom passed, as she was actively transitioning, using every ounce of willpower I had to NOT call 911 and have her removed to the ER. I *knew* she was dying, but to stand by passively and allow it to occur naturally was nearly impossible. She clearly needed help, and here I was NOT giving it and NOT calling someone who could help.

Of course, I didn't call, and of course I watched her pass. It took me a while to get over the images and forgive myself, even though I know I didn't do anything for which I needed forgiveness. They say time heals all wounds, and it did for me.

I don't know any advice I can give that will help, other than to say I empathize with what you're going through, and I hope you can come to a decision that brings you peace.

When my Dad was on hospice they provided oral swabs that we could wet with water and put in his mouth once his swallow reflex wasn’t working well. It seemed to keep him a little more hydrated.

Not being able to eat and drink is part of the dying process. Hopefully you are getting the support you need from hospice to navigate all this. They usually give you a lot of written information to prepare you for what’s coming. As far as the requirements of your church, I think God knows the difference between withholding nourishment from someone and the recipient not being able to receive them. You should not feel you’ve failed or feel guilty that your mom is not able to eat or drink. When we are transitioning out of this world, the things of this world no longer work for us. I hope you can accept this as part of the process and no longer feel guilty about not doing enough for her.

I see that you are doing everything to care for your mother in her last days. I am also Catholic. I suggest that you contact your or your mothers priest to discuss. If they are not available, I suggest you call a local parish. I think that the church does not expect forced nutrition at the end of a long and natural life. They will guide you. The end of life is so hard to witness, esp with your mother. It is hard to not be able to feed them or give them fluids; remember that this decrease in intake is a natural part of dying . May God enfold you all in His arms and bring you Peace. He knows your heart, and is thankful for your compassion for His child. You might ask the priest to come to your mother for the sacrament of healing. It is a gift to her. There may be a priest associated with her facility, definitely the hospital.

A loss of thirst and hunger is a natural part of the dying process. Forcing the dying person to take food or liquids may cause discomfort or pain because her digestive system is shutting down.

When your mom refuses fluids, respect her wishes.
and PS - The Catholic Church is not a medical authority, so I'd say it's safe to disregard that opinion.

If you force fluids on her when her kidneys aren't working, you will only prolong her death, and it will probably be more painful too. Her body knows what it is doing, and it's trying to shut down.
Please let your 97-year-old mother have the peaceful death that she deserves. Do NOT force her to move from place to place at her age and in her condition. Instead, why don't you sit by her bed, hold her hand, and talk to her? Even if she's not alert, she can hear you because hearing is the last sense to go. Tell her you love her, tell her you'll all be OK after she's gone, and tell her that she's done a good job with her work here on earth so it's OK for her to go. Sing lullabies to her. This is your chance to show your love in the most important way—by being by her side as she makes her transition.
After a person stops taking food or water, they can linger for days as their body continues shutting down. After the first couple of days, they will gradually slip into a "twilight zone" and it will get deeper and deeper as they approach death.
Worrying about what the Catholic Church says is about YOU, not your mother. Is it possible that you have misinterpreted their teachings? Is it possible that they teach people not to selfishly withhold water from a man who has none, but is otherwise very much alive? You might need to talk to a hospice worker, and she can confirm that not drinking water or eating is very much part of the dying process.

Dying usually involves taking in no more food or fluids. If she is this close to dying, why would Hospice not accept her? Maybe you are thinking that Hospice is a specific place or care facility. It is not. Hospice allows the dying process to continue naturally, whether that is happening in a care facility or at home. Yes, I guess you could say that is "leaving the person with no fluids to just die."

It is unlikely and probably unwise that she be artificially hydrated while dying. Hydration will not keep her alive.

I'm so sorry to read about your mom, and as many have said, this is part of the dying process. Unfortunately, a person may last many days even without water at this point. My dear mother in law lasted over a week without fluids. This did give all the family a chance to say goodbye, hold her hands, and show love to her.

if you are concerned about what the church says, please speak to your priest or deacon. You can’t force someone to drink, and I’m certain your clergy will be very supportive.

Be absolutely sure that what you think about the Catholic Church on dying, forcing fluids, etc. is accurate. I think you might be mistaken. When my own mother was dying, at age 93, we did not force fluids or food in any form. She is not dying of dehydration. She is simply dying. To comfort her if her mouth is dry, use the little watersoaked sponges-on-a-stick.

Is she offially on hospice? If not, ask her doctor to recommend her for hospice, and her doctor should also be able to advise on how to get fluids for her. A skilled nursing home should be able to give her the care she needs.

I am so sorry you are going through this. Trying to navigate this world and your spiritual needs at the same time can be tricky. I am glad you got answers that satisfied both. Blessings to you and your family as you go through these last days with your mom.

I cared for my husband- with hospice, too - at home. Towards the end of hiss life, he didn’t want to eat; he’d drink a little, but eventually during the last few day wouldn’t drink anything. We used a wet sponge on a stick to keep his mouth moistened. I think that your mom’s body may be telling her that her time here is near its end. I didn’t force fluids on my husband and he never indicated that he wanted any. His death was very peaceful and I have no regrets or second thoughts about his care. I followed his wishes.

I just watched a YOUTUBE post from a hospice nurse who explained very clearly WHY fluids are not given in the EOL stage.

The body can no longer absorb the fluid, so it 'third spaces' meaning it fills in between the cells. THIS is miserable and painful. Eventually the fluid will surround the heart and fill the lungs. The kidneys cannot excrete the excess fluid.

It is far more painful to die 'suffocating' in fluid than to pass comfortably medicated and with just swabs to the mouth and keeping the lips moist.

My dad could manage about 1/4 of a popsicle. That was about 2 T of fluid, and often he's throw that up, as his body simply couldn't handle it.

I'm sorry for you, watching this. But Hospice will help you through.