Husband found out his 88 year old mom cut him out of her will in favor of his indigent sister who has put her through one crisis after another for 40+ years with amazing consistency. Sister and her husband currently live with their daughter. They have 4 children and 3 grandchildren, no home, no rental. Mom lives alone in a small home with reverse mortgage. The initial money is all gone and she lives on SS. My husband has consistently provided his mom with landscaping, painting, handyman and mechanic services for many years. Going immediately or as soon as he can if non-emergency. Also, he's gifted her necessary items like toilets, faucets, disposals, etc. He even fixed her broken sewer line saving her $3000. Mom is unimpressed. She sees these things as her due. Son-in-law has no skills so has to be my husband. What she really wanted from my husband he didn't provide... a new car, new cabinets and new countertops for her reverse mortgage home, cable TV, a larger TV than the one he got her. MIL says her daughter is committed to caring for her going forward and she has no one else (as my husband and I look at each other with raised eyebrows). I took care of both my parents in their last years. MIL won't listen to how Medicaid works should she need it. Said she's not going to worry about such things. Somehow MIL believes that years of rescuing her daughter will secure her a daughter/friend and goodwill, and she's sweetening the deal with a payout. MIL says my husband said he didn't want anything from her. That was taken out of context. Honestly, my husband would be very happy if mom needs all her money for herself and there's nothing left, but he'd also like to be remembered if there is anything left over. And we do understand that a will is no guarantee that things will go as planned. I know full-well what can be done with a power of attorney written correctly. My husband says his sister should step up and take care of her mom out of principle. Sister has also gotten money for years from their dad and stepmom. They've given her family money and 13 vehicles so far and not a single repayment on signed promissory notes. If mom sold her house now she would get almost $200K in equity. MIL says she's signed the will and she can't undo it. She doesn't know where it is or what else she's signed. We told her we're afraid for her future. The daughter has stolen mom's credit card before. Mom says she doesn't remember that. She's now conveniently forgotten all the terrible stories that kept her upset over the years. She and daughter are living a cozy little life now, going to church together, shopping, paying bills. We're not only afraid mom will be taken advantage of, but the daughter will be spiteful and stop giving us information on mom. For instance, if mom goes into the hospital we won't be informed. Mom admits that daughter can be spiteful and she walks softly around her. There's no hope here. My husband wants to cut the connection as they clearly were going to continue to use him for his services and avoid the truth as long as possible.
I hope you found your answer.
I would encourage him, if that makes him happy.
And I would encourage him to continue helping his mom if THAT will make him happy.
You say that Mom and sister now live together, attend church, shop, and pay bills: you describe them as "living a cozy little life". So it does sound as though THEY are ALSO happy.
You have told us mom has a reverse mortgage and has been "gifting" to sister.
Honestly, your having informed her of the facts in all that, it seems you have done your duty. Truthfully, there will, after the high interest rates for the RM are paid, likely not much left to worry about.
I don't get the impression that your helpful husband was ever going things for Mom in hopes of financial gain--at least not from your description. It is simply who he is--the good man you married.
So perhaps now is a time for peace. Let Mom and sister live their cozy lives of church and shopping, let son, your husband, now have a good rest, and checking in with the rare to occ. phone call, and everyone just get on with life.
I can't see why that wouldn't perhaps work for all? Do remember, sadly, parents often do more for a child they see as needy and inept. All the way back from "The Prodigal Son" of biblical fame, and back I am certain a good deal longer. The capable child is seen as needing less parenting, support. Sad, but oh-so- true.
I wish you the very best, Might, and I wish peace for your hubby.
It costs him time and $$ for what he has done and cutting him out is like a slap in the face. Let the daughter take care of everything from now on & just visit with your mom when you can
After he told me her health care & finances were “none of my business” & that he had POA & control I told him I was done.
She passed 2 years ago & the hurt is still there. I would just visit with her if I were your husband and not do one more thing or spend any more of my time or money fixing anything. Let sis take care of it all! It sure sounds like they were both being sneaky about all of this.
Wishing you both the best!
Yiu still have info from 2 years ago, so I bet you can do quick tally as to where it (the $ in play) is at now. If insurance is being folded into mortgage that’s a wild card for increased costs for a lot of States if it’s at all a State with coastal boundary. Reddit personal finance groups tend to be very good insight on RM workings. Especially as to how the RM load on charges to get a property “market ready”.
If mom is in the black for the RM, if she stays at the house then dies, family / heirs have roughly 90 days to pay off in full a HUD backed RM at 90% of RM balance. Let’s say 350K RM but house has tax collector value 480K and could sell for 425K (cause roof replacement). Most banks will not do a mortgage on a RM property, as paperwork is sticky. So heirs need to do a 90% cash buy. $ 315,000.00 cash buy. If y’all do this, it has to be 100% only in your & hubs name. But it’s yours and you can sell it for 425K & bad roof. Sissy will be pissed. If heirs / family do not act, then RM will have a subcontractor take over getting it market ready asap, including removing everything from property, deducting all co$t$ from the $ it sells for which is paid to the heirs as per your moms valid will. It is IRS reported income to heirs.
If mom moves out, goes into a NH, after a fixed period away (6 mos?) from the home, RM calls in loan. Mom or family can buy house but at full pay off. Otherwise terms of the RM happen & house reverts to RM for them to sell. If it sells for more than payoff and co$t$ to get it market ready, excess $ paid to mom. IRS Reported income. Should mom gift any of house sale $, as it’s a recent sale and tax reported, Medicaid will know & place transfer penalty on her Medicaid application if mom gifts a penny. And ya know Sissy will have MiL do that. It will be a clusterF if Sissy’s files LTC Medicaid for MiL.
Here’s basically how transfer penalty works….. it’s a math (division) problem. Each State LTC Medicaid has a $ amount it pays a facility for daily room&board. Let’s say it’s $ 234.50 a day. And this $234.50 is paid obstensibly from day 1 of filing of LTC Medicaid application. The elder entered a NH in Feb of this year. Elder transferred land with tax assessor value of $250K to niece 3 years ago (let’s say in 2020). It surfaces in the caseworker database review this month, which is at month 4 of LTC Medicaid application review. Medicaid places ineligiblity on application from date of application with a penalty period of 1,066 Days or almost 3 years based on a $ 234.50 Medicaid reimbursement room&board day rate. Penalty: 250,000.00 divided by 234.50 per day = 1,066.098 days of ineligiblity starting date application filed.
The rub in this is that elder is in a NH accruing a bill each & every day which the NH is fully expecting someone to pay. Medicaid application take 2-6 months. So could be quite the bill if ineligible & transfer penalty placed.
POA will find it difficult to make niece do anything if truly gifted. May be able to go after niece if niece took advantage of vulnerable adult if elder and POA want to go this route & file APS, police report, criminal charges, etc.
Mighty, your description on Sil has red flags flying should LTC Medicaid get filed on MiL. Autos bought, expenses joint, incomes commingled. I know its attractive to look at possible $$$ from house/RM but could be beyond a hot mess to get through especially if it involves having to get SiL and her family out of the house to sell it. Good luck!
Here’s why: MiL is 88 with all sorts of health challenges, no significant savings & home with Reverse Mortgage. Home can only be MILs or inherited by whomever named in will IF mortgage, it’s interest & fees is paid off either in full or at 90% within 30-90 days of MiL death or notification to RM company that you want to close out the loan & acquire the house. You mention 200K equity, based on what??? RM have hefty interest & fees - all have to be repaid in addition to $ RM paid MiL. If 200K is tax assessor value, that’s not what RM figure is. RM will have a close out loan payoff $ figure that has to be requested by borrower or their heirs. Could be huge as interest compounding. What is that figure?? RM do allow family to pay off RM at 90% & tends to be by line of credit from a bank as it’s in full 60-90 days. If neither mom nor Sissy have $ to pay off RM, house will revert back to RM company, which will bring in a subcontractor to remove everything & get it market ready & it gets sold.
MiL only source of $ is mo Social Security income, right?? Which is not realistically enough to maintain her home as you & hubs have paid for maintenance, repairs on the home that is under a Reverse Mortgage, correct? Do you have any idea if your MiL had gotten a compliance letter from the RM company prior to her (MiL) asking your hubs to do work on the house????
To me this is mucho importante!!! If I were you, I’d be interested in finding out if this was the situation….. cause if it was, your MiLs house is on a red flag list for RM lender. RM have in the paperwork that the owner (MiL) is fully responsible for all maintenance, repairs and upkeep (taxes, insurance if not folded into mortgage) on the property; & if not done, the Mortgage can be “called in” and pay off due in full & if not the RM can evict owner. 100% allowed. I’d be wary that MiLs house has been placed on a list & the work hubs did, essentially put a bandaid on the problem. But if MiL has no $, it’s going to happen again. & this time you & hubs are not going to be there to help. Mortgage Co can call in the loan due to noncompliance. I’d be on the watch for this & ready to deal with whining and pleading from Mil & Sis should this happen.
Who is POA? if hubs is POA, imo, he should resign and let his mom know this in writing & sent certified mail. MiL lending $ over time & commingled finances with Sissy and lax record keeping is going to be a minefield for gifting issues (and penalties from this) for the day that she ends up having a LTC Medicaid application filed. Being POA has a required fiduciary duty & Sissy has & is going to undermine this from happening. So for hubs & your own sanity, cleave yourself from any POA situation if it exists please.
Also if he was POA in the past, find the document where that changed and set it aside to show neither hubs nor you are responsible for the train wreck that is coming.
At 88, chances are she’s going to have a bad fall; get hospitalized (MediCARE); sent to rehab (MediCARE) at a NH; then determined she cannot safely return home so becomes custodial resident at the NH & as she has no $ files LTC Medicaid application. Which requires her to do a copay of her SS income to the NH. Detailed lookback on her financials is required & those $ exchanges with Sis will surface and become a penalty placed for MiL LTC Medicaid eligibility. Also RM will be called in as she is now in a NH. Quite the train wreck.
Do not let hubs ever personally sign off on any paperwork for his mom.
Good luck dealing with all this.
Guaranteed if mom outlives her money in this case the first person whose door will be knocked on will be her son who she cut out.
She (and likely the sister and rest of the family) will expect that son and his wife (the OP) to take her in and become her caregivers.
I do enjoy a bit of responsible sport. I would bet on exactly this outcome happening here.
It's known as a 'Slap In The Face' then a parent cuts one of their kids out. It's a double-whammy when the one cut out has to find out from someone else because mom or dad don't have enough of a backbone to say so themseves.
No one is "keeping score" of what the sister is getting.
The OP's MIL is screwing over her son. She has money but expects him to pay for things she needs like the $3,000 sewer line repair. Then she got bent out of shape because he didn't buy her a new car.
Really? The OP and her husband are just supposed to forget about all that and just love mom and sister while they have them?
My good Greek grandmother who was a wonderful and loving woman had a very wise saying.
Forgive, but never forget.
Amen to that, Ya-ya.
You know, this is a support group. You're not supposed to guilt-trip and gaslight the people in a support group which is exactly what you're doing, whenlovelistens.
1. Never think about inherting money (my father always told us there would be nothing left--they were going to spend it all).
2. Your parents shouldn't cost you money (both sets of grandparents were immigrants and DID cost my parents money. Our parents were bound and determined not to let that happen).
Your mother in law should be paying her way. There is dignity in paying your own expenses. Her son should be reimbursed for TVs, plumbing fixtures and the like.
Sister should be paid for her caregiving NOW. Because there won't be anything left to the end.
Your husband should stop trying to buy his mother's love with gifts.
My father had the same philosophy. He always said that he wasn't leaving us anything but wouldn't leave us any debts either though.
He left nothing but debts. So I got nothing except the honor of cleaning up his messes and being harrassed by creditors and bill collectors day and night for years.
So, who is the POA? The sister? What about HIPPA? If his name is on that form, the sister cannot keep medical information from him. And unless your husband actually viewed the will, it is all hearsay. If the mom has any kind of medical issue, anything she has will be gone in no time. Even if she sold her reverse mortgage home, where would she live?
I took care of my dad and stepmom for 3 1/2 years until their passing and all along I always said I didn't care if I received a dime, as long as I didn't receive a bill.
I think you're husband should take what his mom says with a grain of salt.
Wouldn't that just put a lid on it!!!
Accept the MIL's very direct and unambiguous scorching of your husband. Walk away and never look back.
MIL thinks daughter can just step into your husband's shoes. Allow MIL and daughter to do it. Please do not spend any more on your MIL. If worse comes to worse, she should sell the house to pay for her medical necessities. You should not be paying for her medical needs or anything to do with the house.
Just be there to support your husband no matter what the decision. He needs your support.
You imply she is medicaid eligible at this point which means her assets and income are low. She clearly needs someone other than the sister to help her navigate the system to apply to get the funding to sustain her. If those gifts of cars and other things have happened during the look back period, she has jeopardized her eligibility. If she gets talked into giving additional large gifts by the sister, it is jeopardized.
I would not blame your husband to walk away entirely. He owes absolutely nothing to his sister. She has her own life and family and must manage that by herself. He has been hurt by his mom for lack of appreciation and symbolically rejecting his love for her through cutting him out of the will. If the sister does not inform your hubbie about his mom, so be it. If that is too difficult for him, then support him through trying to maintain some communication so that the chances for notification of key health events will be made. As others have said, he should not feel obligated to continue to be her handyman. Sis has made that commitment to care for her. Coordinating contractors should be part of her duties.
I expect to be cut off myself. My brother has slandered me to anyone who would listen. My parents expect me the female to do all the work to care for them and my brother is along for the ride. I know it's unpleasant and awful.
I hope that you aren't doing anything for your parents. If your brother is the one running his mouth then he can be the one responsible for the caregiving.
The villifying of the family member who actually takes care of them is very common.
So many of our elderly "loved ones" decide to make their beds, so now they can lay in them.
I'm sorry for your sister who is miserable though. Maybe you can offer to help her get your mother placed in facilty care. Whatever you choose to do, make sure you do not get pulled into taking responsibility for your mother again.
As for the handsome lawyer who very likely took advantage of your mother, talk to Bar Association in the state this happened in.
If your mother has dementia or cognitive decline (both are kind of the same thing), then you may be able to get that lawyer in some trouble.
I would certainly try to.
Let her do as she wishes and live the best life you two seem to have decent finances and a good marriage so enjoy that focus on that, there’s no guarantee about anything w her will and he should not be pressuring her to do so. It sounds as if you two are fortunate to have each other and what you do so I would focus on that
If the sister is indigent and needs it more than the brother then that's understandable.
It should be totally understandable for the son to do absolutely nothing for his mother then. Let the sister take over if she is the one being paid to.
The part I don't get is the sister's loser husband. The OP says the sister is indigent. He doesn't provide in any way for his wife and kids? Does he too sponge off the mother?
That's completely unacceptable.
The OP's husband should do zero for his mother. Her daughter, SIL, and grandkids who she's taken care of all of their lives can step up now.
On the other hand I was never close to my parents but they split what was left ( not much) equally between myself and my sister.
I think someone who cuts family out of their will is their way of telling them they do not care about you.
If your husband wants to call or visit mother when the sister is not there , that’s up to him . He should not feel obligated to though. I’m assuming he is not POA either, therefore he has no responsibilities. If the mother gets angry that her son is not “ doing what she wants” , or treats him poorly he can cut off all contact . Or by all means he can just cut off all contact now.
Do not help the mother with any of your own money. Should she run out , oh well . Let her favorite daughter help her figure out how to get Medicaid, since mother says the daughter is committed to taking care of her . I would stay out of it.
It will take time to get over the hurt and feeling used. Your husband needs to believe he did nothing wrong , cut his losses and move forward . Good luck to you both. You did not deserve this . I’m sorry .
What happened?
It’s time for your husband to walk away from this situation as it’s clear that he’s being used by his mother.
Supporting your widowed mother was an imperative in societies with no old age pensions or retirement savings. Our society is not structured that way.
Your MIL HAS means. She chooses to divert HER means towards her daughter while sponging off her son.
There's also a verse in the Bible that says that parents shouldn't provoke their children. Justice and fairness go both ways!
Mothers are programmed to support (most, not all I suppose..) but it all gets too skewed to SAVING that kid. The kid doesn't learn to support themselves or worse, learns that Momma always fixes their messes including financial ones. Even worse, becomes manipulative to GET extra money or attention.
'Spoilt' was the old way to put it.
Spoilt can become entitled. Entitled can elder abuse.