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Whenever he has a medical problem that I have to call to her attention she gets angry and acts as though he doesn’t have a problem at all. About five days ago the fire alarm was pulled at night and in the confusion he fell going out of his room. He has a bruised knee that is bothering him and to further confuse matters first denied it was bothering him. After days of ‘it’s better’ it’s actually not better. I called her in to ask her to have someone come and look and take an x-ray to rule out a small fracture. She went ballistic and said he would be in excruciating pain if he had a fracture and then proceeded to very forcefully move his leg up and down on the bed to prove it. (I told her to stop that). Then she got on her hands and knees in his bed and got right up in his face his face telling him he had to wait 5 days till the MD resident came back to see him he wasn’t listening to her. We ended this nastiness by not knowing if she was going to order an X-ray or not.
I am afraid to make too much of a stink because I actually feel this woman could be dangerous (and I have been a caregiver for over 20 years to parents and sibs) and I don’t want to provoke her further. It is the first time I have actually encountered someone who I thought was pathological.
Any advice appreciated.

Speak to whomever is in charge of her. This sounds like bordering on abuse and should not be tolerated at all. You should not be in fear regarding his safety in a facility that is in charge of his care. She likely exhibits this behavior with other residents but you don't know if they have family as involved as you are regarding the care of their family member residing in the facility.

If you feel stonewalled within the facility there are outside agencies you can contact. Hopefully other knowledgeable posters will offer their seasoned advice. I hope you find a solution quickly.
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BelleAnnie Jul 26, 2024
Thanks for your answer. My concern is how to do this without provoking her further and perhaps risking additional retribution. I mean this sincerely. . . I think this woman could be potentially be malicious and I have warning bells going off to be careful. It’s not just as easy as moving him to another facility as he is getting over $2,000.00 assistance a month from the facility for his care ( a local church partners with them to help residents). It is a very fine facility and everyone is excellent, but this nurse in charge is a nightmare.
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Thanks for your answer!
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I'm so sorry you are going through this, I honestly am not educated enough to give you answers, but others are, so I just wanted to tell you how sorry I am your dad are going through this. And that I do think you are right in not saying much at this point, untill you figure out what to do.

Don't bit the hand that feeds you kind of thing. Untill you have a plan anyways.

Best of luck.
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BelleAnnie Jul 26, 2024
Thanks very much for your answer. I also wanted to give this woman the chance to do the right thing. Hopefully today he will have his x-ray and her attitude will be improved. Well. . One can always hope! Thanks again.
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Thanks again!
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Meet with the person in charge. Be careful to leave out all accusations and emotion. State facts as they have happened. Relate your dad’s confusion at the hostile behavior. Emphasize staff members who have been competent and compassionate in providing care as well.
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BelleAnnie Jul 26, 2024
Great advice. Thank you!
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Are cameras allowed in your Dad’s facility?

This might be a good time to research this.

I’m so sorry this is happening.
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BelleAnnie Jul 26, 2024
Yes, I was thinking this too. Laws in our State allow with consent of the individual and also the facility. I am going to ask today. Thanks!
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Were it me I would speak with the administration. Tell them exactly what you have told us. If this woman is so inappropriate as to get on the bed on all fours to yell at your Dad she is out of control. I would not report further medical problems to her, but rather to the administration and I would tell them formally by mail that this will be the case. I would say I am afraid of her inappropriate behavior and I would tell them that you worry that her anger will cause her to retaliate against you. This cannot be the only problem with her; I think she may have a history.

So sorry this is happening and hope you will update us after speaking to the administration.
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You can take your Dad to ER for an xray. You don't have to wait for the Nursevto do her job. Dad is jot in a prison. Having the availability of a portable xray is a convenience but you can take him out.

Is this an RN? LPN? Yes, talk to the Administrator. There may have been other complaints. Also, if there is another nurse that can deal with Dad, request it.
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Nurse may be suffering from burnout,
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JuliaH Jul 26, 2024
I was thinking that too. Everyone gets to that point but they have lots of people to care for. It could even be a case of the facility being understaffed. That's no excuse though
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Wow! You have me scared. Poor dad is so scared he's denying that he's in pain. I'd be up in the administration office in a heartbeat after she left the room! It could be she's been reprimanded before and of course, administration would keep the complaint confidential. She could be abusing lots of residents in retaliation. I hope you get her out of there. There should be someone else who can be assigned to dad other than her. I'm sorry for dad and you having to be treated like this.
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BurntCaregiver Jul 26, 2024
@JuliaH

What I did was get friendly with the family of other patients in the nursing home and the aide (CNA) staff. These are the people you want to be on the good side of. Also, you have to get your face seen all the time and at all different times. They need to know that they don't know when you'll be popping in.

It's a headgame with nursing home staff. You have to keep them on their toes. If you do, your loved one will get treated right,

I wanted eyes inside the facility my father was in, so I got friendly with the aides. Especially one who worked the same shift as this nurse. I told her if she looked out for my father and recorded any incidents with this nurse, I'd make it worth her while and I did.

You can never let the staff or administration of any care facility relax.
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You can request another nurse. Eve3n if he has to have a room change if the nurses are assigned an area and she cant be moved.
I would also document each further incident and report it. (difficult to report past incidents but it can be useful to show a pattern.)
You also don't know if others have reported the same behavior. So informing administration is crucial.
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BelleAnnie.

I want to start by telling you how sorry I am that your poor father is being treated so badly by a nurse. I had a couple at the facility my father was in who behaved badly and very unprofessional. One in particular. Here is how I handled it.

First I made a call to my state's Ombudman's Office and told them what was going on and said it had to be investigated or I'd be forced to take matters into my own hands by involving the police and personal injury lawyers who specialize in elder abuse in nursing homes.

Your father is being abused by this nurse. So if I may speak plainly as I do, you have to put the fear of yourself and God into her. The same way I had to a couple of times. When she got into your father's bed on all fours and and in his face, you should have pulled your phone out and recorded it. Then you bring it to the police and the Ombudsman and you don't take no for an answer. Name this nurse personally. Set up cameras in his room where you can view the footage from your phone any time day or night. If the facility doesn't like it, TFB.

One nurse was getting aggressive with my father and being very rough forcing the meds in his mouth. He wasn't taking them fast enough. She thought they were alone until the door to the room shut because I was hiding behind it. With my phone and making a movie. I only had two words for this woman, 'smile, b*tch'. That footage went straight to the DON and the Ombudsman.

She was not allowed to care for my father for the rest of his stay in that facility. I moved him to a different facility. I did however make it my personal mission to get this nurse's license taken away or at least suspended. It finally happened two years after my father passed away. He wasn't the only patient she behaved that way to. It was my genuine pleasure to sit in the gallery at the licensing board (which is open to the public in my state) and watch her squirm and try to explain herself. I waved to her a couple times. She remembered me.

Elderly people can be abusive and get on a person's last nerve. No one knows that better than me. I was a homecare worker for 25 years. My father couldn't speak and was a bedridden invalid though. He was unable to behave abusively.

You need to make this nurse's life a living hell. You be relentless to the administration of the facility. Do not let up. Do not let them railroad you into backing down. Threaten with litigation if you have to. Then go straight to a lawyer. Don't let that nurse or the facility who employs her get away with it.

In the meantime, start looking at different facilities to place your father in.
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jemfleming Aug 1, 2024
Absolutely!! Evidence is key. You should have video recorded her little episode of getting in your father’s face. But no worries - you are sure to have other opportunities with this nurse. Document the date, time, and circumstances of that incident in a notebook and keep it the notebook up to date. You will forget dates and details unless you keep a book. Take photos of any injuries to your Dad. Research her background and any other complaints on her. She needs to be fired. But evidence is key - your word or your father’s word will not be enough alone. Once you have some good evidence, tag the administrators and supervision/management with what you have observed. Do it in writing - verbal conversations can easily be denied and are meaningless and ineffective. It makes my head explode when I hear people say “I told her” or “I made a phone call.” Unless you have a recording or you have it documented in writing you have exactly nothing! Conversations can and will be denied. But if they see you have actual evidence you will get their attention. Go to a lawyer and sue if you have a good case or report to law enforcement. I did investigations as a profession. Details and documentation are critical to making a case. Persistence is also an absolute necessity.
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I would start by requesting a meeting with the DON (Director of Nursing), the (ED) Executive Director for the facility and the Ombudsman. I am not sure what state you live in but in IL the Ombudsman representative information is posted prominently at the front desk or contact your state's department on aging.

If possible state facts and leave emotions in check (my major failing), What this nurse is doing is elder abuse, plain and simple and should not be allowed to continue.

Best wishes
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BelleAnnie Jul 26, 2024
I appreciate your reply and have already spoke. To the ED and will continue to pursue. Thank you.
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There was a miserable nurse employed at my father's AL when he was dying and on hospice. Dad was comatose and obviously couldn't take pills. The hospice company had ordered liquid meds for him which hadn't arrived yet, so nurse Ratchet decided she'd force pills into his mouth and coax them down his throat instead! I was livid.....telling her to stop immediately, while she massaged his throat! I had it out with her right then and there, but she said it was no big deal, dad did just fine. I marched myself into the Executive Directors office and relayed the story to him of what had happened. I told him I never wanted that nurse to attend to dad again and that I felt she should be terminated. About 2 weeks later, I think she was because I never saw her again.

We should never stay quiet about such things. Nurses like these mentioned have no business working in the field and potentially killing or at least abusing patients like our fathers. Speak your truth about this incident and make sure this nurse never attends to your dad again.
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Wyfreak Jul 31, 2024
patient has right to refuse meds
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This nurse is a abuser. Get advice from Dept of Elderly Affairs in your state.
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Tell her if she ever treats your father like this again she will be hearing from your lawyer. (Even if you don’t have one). I’m a nurse and personally I would let the DON know you don’t want this nurse anywhere near him ever again
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Prayers sent.
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BelleAnnie Aug 8, 2024
Thank you!
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Experience: nurses do not order x-rays. PCP's do. For your Dad to be there a doctor had to be involved. That is the person you talk to for tests, x-rays, etc.
The nurse does what her boss tells her to do. You tell her boss what to do.
In general only ask the nurse things she can do right there and right then.
Anything requiring other people should be discussed with her boss.
Heat, cool, bed dressings, adjustments, vitals, she can likely do herself.
X-rays, and other tests she likely can't.

While you should limit what you ask of her she too must limit how she handles your Dad. You need to tell her boss exactly what she did with your Dad's knee after that fall. That is not about making a stink. The doctor needs that information.
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waytomisery Jul 31, 2024
A nurse can call up a doctor and ask for a telephone order for an X-ray from the doctor . Then the nurse can call for portable X-ray to come . Don’t have to wait for the doctor to come . I’m a retired nurse .
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I have same issue but no care or individual attention not enough staff she had better care on hospice
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Well, I can certainly understand your concern, however, unless You are, yourself, a healthcare professional, you should try to understand that they can't just order diagnostic testing because you want it. They literally, have to have documentable justification, or the insurance will not pay for it. When I tell you that these poor nurses get REEMED by doctors or NPs that think THEY are being ridiculous to report a bruise on the knee, I mean that. So, they will often avoid having to report things that they, in their education, training and experience, do not feel rises to the level of reporting to the Physician. Of course, they can be wrong, and let's be honest, often are. But MORE often, they aren't.
I work in nursing homes everyday, and while I do run into some really nasty nurses and other staff, this behavior is really unusual and Frankly, Reportable to her supervisors/admin. So that would be my suggestion to you. Report it to Admin.
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TouchMatters Aug 3, 2024
I would reframe from using words like 'poor nurses' based on this daughter's experience of how her dad is being handled / treated / managed.

It is important to keep your own experience separate from making judgments about this woman's experience of how her dad is being 'cared' for by a nurse.

The issue here is how to deal with this abusive behavior. It is abusive or do you disagree?
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Happened at the facility, but this was not a nurse, it was the SW. He is/was not a people person, he seemed to be annoyed by the residents,

End result, he did not do the task that is required of the state, and now they're looking to fill the SW position (again).
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My daughter also works in NHs as an RN. And if there was a complaint about her attitude in talking to a resident or family member, she would be reprimanded for it. Not saying that she has not lost her cool, but she is professional enough to walk away. The one time she did lose it with a family member, and she was justified, she went straight to her boss apologized and told her why she lost it. My daughter was punched in the head by a resident and kept her cool.

Nurses burnout justvlike everyone else. When this happens, time to find another job.
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If you are here in the U.S. you should be able to locate what is known as an Ombudsman. They are supposed to investigate complaints/reports such as yours.

If you aren't sure how to locate one for your county, area, etc. I suggest contacting your most local "Center for Independent Living" and asking them for the number of an Ombudsman.

I just had to call one not long ago for an older couple who sort of adopted me. I can relate to that feeling of not wanting to potentially cause problems. The unfortunate part to also consider is that perhaps this employee is doing the same to other residents.

I'm so sorry that you are both experiencing this situation. I hope the information I provided is helpful. Both the Ombudsman and the Center for Independent Living are nonprofits.
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JoAnn29 Aug 3, 2024
All Facilities have to have Ombudsman info available. Usually posted somewhere. They are usually listed under state government.
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The nurse's obligation is to treat your Father & you with respect. To use a professional manner.

I get nurses get overworked & can experience burnout & compassion fatigue. This is no excuse for agressive behaviour.

Try to remain respectful yourself, regardless. Give this person no ammunition against you.

If this nurse's manner does not improve, report it in writing/email to her Manager. Suggest two solutions: an immediate improvement in professional & respectful conduct or for this staff member to have no contact with your Father. Ask for the Manager to schedule a followup call with you to ensure there is followup.
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Sorry this is happening.
Sounds like this nurse should be fired and certainly not working with this population.

Track / Document every interaction.
- Date, time, who is there, situation. Keep good notes.
- Photograph / on your cell ph as much as you can (although if it becomes a legal issue, in my experience (photos) then 'heresay' by a 3rd party and not admissible.

Discuss with Administrator of facility.
Discuss with Dept Mgr.

Does the facility have another nurse they could provide to your dad? --- Get her out of there.

Report situation to Umbudsman.
Call / contact the Licensing Board (who license the facilities). I reported a nursing home to them. Document situation.

I would make a huge stink - I would tell her what is acceptable and what is not.
Although I understand your situation not wanting to rock the boat anymore than you have directly with her.

Could it have to do w race? Not that you could/would know.
Anyone could 'behave' like this. And, working with this population, you'd hope - if not expect professionals to be compassionate to older people, people denying, frail, dependent on others' to care for them, people nearing death. This is WHY they work with this population - because they care. It is certainly why I am in the field (ind care mgmt).

* Can you move your dad out of there?
* Can you get / hire caregivers to be there when you are not?
- even volunteers or students; ask them to watch, take/keep notes.

Any 'professional' in this environment going 'ballistic' is clearly a huge red flag.
I would be very curious to hear what the facility administrator says.
- How this nurse is re-acting / responding / ' caring' for your dad cannot be an isolated case.

* Check and see if this facility has been reported (already) to Licensing Board and the Better Business Bureau. There may be a history of abusive behavior.

This is a heart-wrenching situation to hear about. Although I know, I was documenting my friend-companion's situation at a nursing home almost every visit (3-4 x/ week), and reporting to Umbudsman.

Equally, I tried to maintain 'good' relationships with the 'good' caregivers / CNA's. However, you are speaking about a NURSE. She should not be working there - she should be fired.

I believe the turnover can be severe at these facilities.
Facilities may feel they are at the mercy of 'any' employee due to difficulty hiring another.

Still, that is NO reason to keep an employee behaving like this. The facility needs to be put on alert - penalized, lose their license - otherwise they will keep doing / allowing what is happening.

It would be 'good' if you could get a witness to observe this / her behavior, with you.

Gena / Touch Matters
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BelleAnnie Aug 8, 2024
Thanks so much for your very helpful suggestions. There was, btw, a med tech in the room when this occurred. I am very curious to see what the result of the investigation was. I will find out this weekend. Complicating this matter is that my father can be very arrogant and terse, and I find myself wondering if he has behaved antagonistically to perhaps inflame the situation a bit (not on purpose, of course!)

Thanks again :-)
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I would like to know how your meeting went?
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BelleAnnie Aug 8, 2024
Hi JoAnn,

Thanks for asking. The ED seems very upset by this and apologized profusely. She said she would launch and ‘investigation’. I will meet with her over the weekend. I have not encountered this nurse on my subsequent visits but want to now talk to other family members. My father has finally been assigned an aide that he compliments constantly so at least there is that.

I will let you know the results from follow up this weekend.
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Thank you for the update
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Thanks again. So I guess you learned not to jump when he complains. If he cries wolf too many times, he may not be believed when it is really serious but that is on him not you. Tell him to complain to the staff and doctor who care for him. You are no longer his go between. You are there to visit, not listen to complaints.
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