Was I wrong to take the keys?

Seems your mom can not hold firm with your dad about him NOT driving. Hold onto the keys. Get mom evaluated for her own mental capacity. If she also has cognitive issues, help them to sell the car and find other ways to get around.

This is how it would go in my BIL’s family if he let his mom have the keys but his dad couldn’t drive:

Mom: meek spirit, quiet and mousy
Dad: a bit overbearing but overall nice and has a large personality

Dad waits for mom to go to the toilet and then dad takes the car keys and goes for a joy ride.

Mom doesn’t know where he went or and she can’t really think about what to do after it takes her several minutes to realize he took the car. She doesn’t want to make him mad, so she goes and prays that no one gets hurt. She doesn’t tell anyone dad took the car keys while she was on the toilet because it makes both of them look bad and the kids might start talking about AL again.

I’m sorry if this comes across as derivative. I don’t mean it to be. I think it coudl be a LOT a of responsibility placed on mom to gatekeep the car keys. Maybe she doesn’t really need that job.

We can only comment on the words written without knowing the people involved.

Again, my 2 cents which might be worth nothing. It’s all hard. I know it’s hard trying to talk to them. I know.

And, NO.
You absolutely do not 'try' to reason with a person with dementia.
You talk to them in a way that works for YOU.
You never ever argue with a person with dementia.

Yes, I stated 1, 2, 3. However, each person needs to respond to a parent (or anyone they are responsible for who should not be driving) in a way that works.
None of us are there with you.

Please do not blast me for trying to intervene before someone is injured or killed. And, we are all here trying to help out as best we can, even me. If you do not like what I say, then fine. Ignore me and move on.

I think you missed my point.

My concern is that no one gets injured or killed when he's driving (or your mother).

As you state, my comment(s) are dramatic. The potential of a person(s) being injured or killed due to someone driving isn't dramatic to me. The results are a real possibility. Thus, my comment about having a police officer involved 'somehow.'

Clearly see the situation / need differently.

I only offer suggestions based on my experience and training with people inflicted with dementia (over the last 8-12 years).

That you suggest giving the keys back to your mother was / is a red flag to me.
I cannot imagine why you would even consider doing this?

However, I will bow out now as my comments seem to cause you more stress than being helpful. You will do what you feel is right in this situation. Gena

Hi Oburgmon, I'm coming into this question late, so you may have already made a decision. You stated in your profile that your father has Alzheimer's and your mother is showing some cognitive decline. Therefore, this would be an accident waiting to happen by letting either of them have the keys. There's no reason for it. Neither of them would have the right judgement - and trying to reason with them would be futile. It just wouldn't work - in fact, it would be negligent.

It's doing them a favor by removing the keys - it's not a punishment - it's helping them. They may not understand it right now, but it's more important to keep them safe, as well as others on the road. They've lived long enough to know that sometimes there have to be compromises in life. Thankfully there's lots of alternatives and it's a matter of pivoting to using ubers or cabs - and just about anything can be ordered online - even groceries.

Maybe you can just fib a little and tell them that the keys were requested back by the DMV !

My mom was very angry when doc said you have dementia and should not be driving. She hadn't even realized that I'd already taken her keys from her purse and the spare set from the key rack. It was winter and she didn't want to drive in icy conditions, etc. She brought it up many, many times, but it just falls on deaf ears. I can't let her drive, knowing she could kill someone. Nope.

Oburgmom3: Your parents should not have access to vehicle keys.

Reply to Oburgmom3: If your Mom can't say "not going to happen" to your Dad's intent to drive, then I amend my earlier responses. Unfortunately, sometimes older adults can't see or admit to obvious decline that is clearly evident to others. My husband was entirely cooperative with no longer driving, but not everyone is. Personally, my independence is really important but not at the potential cost of someone's life or physical safety on the road.

I cannot edit without all my formatting disappearing.
This is a new issue in this website's technical / technology and I hope they fix it.

I forgot to add:

It sounds like your mother should not be driving either.
Has she been tested (MD / dementia) / DMV / ability to drive) ?
Might be a good idea to insist she gets tested also.

In how I read this, if you DECIDE to return the car keys to your mother, you are also responsible for the damage your dad may cause - be it injury to him / your mom / others or killing someone. You DO NOT want this to be on you - you keep / take away the keys. Period.

If you need someone there with you to have this 'discussion,' bring your troops - family, friend, or invite a police person to join you.

Gena / Touch

You did good.
No, you DO NOT trust your mom to do what is necessary for all concerned (for their safety).

Also, notify the police dept that he may be driving so they may be on the 'lookout.' And, maybe a 'visit' from the local police to their door saying / reaffirming that he is not allowed to drive may help them see how serious this is. (If the police are willing to do this).

You do not want your dad to kill himself, your mother, anyone else.

You made the right decision. Just be sure that they cannot get another set of keys made.

You do not explain or set up a "I'm right" and "you're wrong" - this never works.
You state your case / situation:
* DI revoked / taken away due to cognitive decline.
* Unable to legally drive.
* Period / end of story.

And, no they will certainly not like how you are handling this although remember they are more 'angry' and 'frustrated' about him declining and losing independence. They are scared. Hopefully, you will be able to switch / shift the conversation to his 'real' feeling (losing himself, scared, etc).

Gena / Touch Matters

I don't think it was explained correctly. Shouldn't be a matter of assets but of LIFE! Try again, explain that just the deployment of an air bag could kill an elderly person, don't forget about how they would feel if they were to cause death to themselves or others. Moms Dr did just that! She felt she could but the scratches and scrapes on the vehicle said differently. I'm sorry but this is... guilt trip included, has to be to protect everyone. You were right to take the keys away, you just saved lives! Mostly the ones you love! There will be some adjustments to be made as far as transportation but it will work out.
There comes a time when age is a factor and you can't sing and dance to make it happy for everyone. Truth,as hard as it is,must be told, do it now and show some research if necessary.
Tell them you love and want them to be with you as long as possible.
Be strong! If possible, ask them to give the car to the younger ones in the family, they could use their help! Make them feel that they could better anothers life instead of taking a life. Yes,I know this says guilt trip all over the place! It's bad but can only get better if you put it into perspective. You won't lose them if you took the keys, you get lots of crap but you still have them! It's worth it!!!

Your local Dept of Aging may have available transportation if
you contact them.
In my area my husband lost his license and then had an incident driving.
The police instructed me to take the keys away to prevent
an accident or getting lost.

Could you keep the keys and give them only to your mother if she wants to drive? If she still has her license and hasn't been deemed incompetent behind the wheel, it will be difficult to keep the keys away from her.

I know if my parents were in the same situation, my mother would never stop my Dad from driving, even if his license was taken away. The only way I could have stopped them was to take the keys or car away.

If you feel that you mother can't make decisions to keep them and others safe, I would keep the keys. If you return them and see your Dad driving, I would report it as it is a huge risk.

Driving without a license (in my state) can carry a penalty of up to a $1,000 fine, jail time, and the vehicle could be impounded (with or without an accident).

Is her cognitive ability such that a doctor would also tell her that she should not be driving? If so you should not return the keys to her either.
Did you try to discuss the situation with them or did you "storm in, grab the keys possibly yelling "mom, the doctor just got done telling us that dad should not drive anymore. I can't trust either of you now!"
I (and I hate to say this) would return the keys but I would put an airtag on them or other device so you know where they are and maybe check to see who is driving. If you live in a small town and the police know your parents you might want to give them a heads up that if they see dad driving they should stop them.
Taking the keys away leaves your mom "stranded" and unable to run errands.
Is it possible that the reason she is "not confident" behind the wheel because your dad did all the driving, possibly even commented on her driving so that she remained dependent upon him?
Leaving mom without a way to get to the store also puts more of a burden on you or other family members to take up the slack and do all the errands that mom could probably still do.

Technically, you have stolen your parents' property. I think in your shoes what I might do is hand the keys in to the police, explain the circumstances, and ask them to deal with it.

I certainly wouldn't for a moment believe that your mother could keep the keys from your father if you were to hand them back to her. Memory issues of her own or no, if he won't let little things like not having a licence stop him she's hardly going to be able to stand in his way, is she?

Have the car towed to a dealer who can sell it. Use that money to hire a companion driver @ Care.com or Visiting Angels. Ask hourly rate and gasoline and proof of car insurance (maybe driving record, too?).

Keep the keys. They can’t be trusted. It’s like letting two 3 year olds make decisions.

When we had this with my BIL the neurologist suggested that he take a driving test that they give people with dementia. Its expensive but it would help your father understand what he has going on with him. With my BIL it was during covid so we kept telling him that the appointments are scheduled out 3 months and with him his short term memory is gone so he would just forget about it.

I had to sell his vehicle to get him into a NH with memory care because I had to spend down his finances to get him onto Medicaid. We still tell him he has his vehicle and its out at his sister in law's. His driver's license has been expired now for 3yrs.

You can't trust your parents especially if both of them show decline you did the right thing.

Prayers

Neither of your parents are judged incompetent? I don't really see how you can take the keys no matter I believe wholeheartedly that your intentions are the best. You CAN report your Dad to the DMV. And should.
My own brother drove until he had a bad accident, and was thankful afterwards that he was the only one injured. At that time, during hospitalization he was evaluated and diagnosed with probable early Lewy's Dementia. That changed everything at once.

You can speak to your Dad about diagnostic workups, about his driving, about your intention to report him, and encourage your mom not to be in the car with him. With her uncertainty she should not be driving, either.

I am really sorry. This may come down to Dad knowing this only after an accident, and I greatly hope no one gets hurt. A totaled care on the other hand would not be a bad thing.

You definitely did the right thing. While I didn’t have to resort to that, my mother still thinks she can drive but has apparently lost the desire. Between in home help who can run errands, and getting her into a program with the town and local church where you can sign up to get a volunteer driver for trips ahead of time, my mother no longer feels the need to drive. Her retirement community also offers rides but for some reason she won’t use them. She has used Uber and Lyft in the past elsewhere but for some reason won’t do that either. I also introduced her to how to get takeouts delivered. Now that she has the daily in home help she relies mostly on them. They also take her to fun things like movies and other events. Since she can go with them to run errands and goes to the fun stuff she still gets out rather than staying home all day, which I think some people fear without a car.

Yes you did the correct thing - taking and keeping those keys. With the memory issues they will not remember NOT to drive. What they do not see they will not do. Keep the keys and get rid of the car so they do not see it.

Yes, you did right and now can continue down that same path- remove the vehicle from their sight - otherwise they will be reminded on a daily basis of their limitations (which were caused by you, in their minds). Also, there are ways to get keys made for the vehicle that might be tempting for them as well.

It seems as if both your parents are no longer able to make the best and highest good judgment calls, and that is where you, with POA, must step in to keep them safe and out of harms way.

And it is time, not 'perhaps time', to have them start a new living arrangement in AL. To get my 93 yo mother to start considering it, I first went and looked at ALL the available options in the area - that way I could narrow down the list of places that might be seriously considered by her. The list was narrowed down to 6 possibilities. All of the facilities that were possibilities offered tours and also a lunch or dinner option the day of the tour. After a year of 'gradual touring' (meaning one a month or every other month), she finally agreed that it might a good idea. We started the process by a gradual downsizing (going through clothing, kitchen stuff, garage stuff, etc) so she felt she had more of a say in things. Unfortunately, she fell and broke her femur several months prior to the actual move, and the resulting surgeries and rehab were too much for her 95 year old body and she passed away before making the move.

Your dad's cognitive decline will prevent him from making rational and logical decisions (including understanding the ramifications of driving), and your mother, with beginning memory issues, has deferred to him all her married life, and is hesitant to make such a life changing decision that would disrupt your dad's life. Especially when it involves leaving their home to a place that might be considered, in their minds, their final place. As long as they stay in their home, they can overlook the obvious and also, don't have to admit their decline to themselves.

Perhaps start by taking your mother with you on a tour or two of AL facilities that would meet/exceed their expectations and yours. Actually seeing the places definitively helped my mother see that the places of today were not the places of yesterday. Having your mother on the same page might help with transitioning your dad to AL.

That all said, with both your parents cognitive declines, make sure you are active with supervising and managing their finances.

Time to get those car keys in your possession.

My 94 yo father with macular degeneration was driving up until two years ago because his eye doctor signed off for that he could drive in NYC certain hours of the day when the roads are not so congested.. (There is never a good time to drive in NYC). I was astounded that a doctor could be that stupid. We just figured the doctor would not sign off in his license renewal. It was clear my dad could not see well, not to mention his reflexes were not good.

After many subsequent arguments about his hanging up the car keys we had his granddaughter ask if she could buy his car because she needed a good used one. He actually was magnanimous and gave it to her. Thankfully our story ended well.

Do not give the keys back to either of them. Lovingly and, briefly share that it is for their safety , because you love them and, are protecting them and their assets. If you want at some point Share that you know that this big change causes grief and, that you are aware of that. Then redirect the conversation to something different and positive. Expect the conversation to come up again and again, be prepared with same brief answer.
Perhaps arranging a set schedule for them to be taken to stores, appointments, pleasure outings etc ( notice I said arrange, not that YOU must do it all) will give them a way to ease into the change without feeling the full impact of loss of control over when they go and come . Protect yourself and them. You are doing the right thing.

It is a difficult situation. No, you should not give the keys back. The other question is whether they are capable of staying at home; need some assistance at home; need to move to an independent living senior facility with transportation; AL or MC with transportation. It is best to not get into a long argument as to why they can't drive as you and the doctor have already explained it. Focus on the transportation options that you can help them set up if they stay home or at a facility.

My husband reached the point he could no longer make decisions quickly so driving was out of the question. I took the car keys then I had to remove the riding lawn mower from the property. He was still resourceful! It was a difficult time but for his safety and the safety of others, it was necessary.

Took an accident, a miracle that the only injury was bruising and a totaled car to get an elder in my world to give up driving. I don’t recommend that method. That said, they need a doable solution to run errands.

It is no longer safe for your parents to drive. Remove the car, place your father in memory car and get rideshare for your mother.

Unfortunately and very sadly, explaining anything at this point may not be remembered or taken seriously. Remove the keys and the car. Hopefully your mom can understand enough to support you as much as she can and not hold it against you.

However, maybe the thing to say, when the issue is brought up, is reminding them "While driving in town I saw my parent’s car in the other lane with my dad driving." Then point out... all it takes is having a head-on collision and someone be killed instantly! What if you are the other driver and both of you killed? If your mom is in the car... then it could be three of you. Even worse, if she isn't in the car... could she live with losing both of you. Keep reminding them that no family should have to live with losing their loved one(s) when it could have been easily avoided. The life you save, may be your own!

When my father stopped driving, I bought the car from him and that way he got to ride in it occasionally. My husband stopped driving after an accident where I was the driver. It wasn't even a serious one but the stress caused him to react in ways that had he been the driver, no one would have believed he was fine before the accident. That convinced me right there, had he been the driver we could have been sued for everything based on the opinion of everyone that he should have not been driving even though he was perfectly fine before the accident.

Even if no one is injured, if the other driver learns he has memory issues it can be used against him in court. So yes, losing a life is the worst case scenario but losing all your assets can still happen even when no one is even injured.